First off I will quote "help trash"

Any character that is used primarily to "pkill" others and then transfer
the ill-gotten gear onto a different 'more playable' character or equip
their friends is the classic definition.

Remember your definition of a "trash character might not be shared with
others, but once a member of the staff is asked to intervene, their
definition will hold the most weight. This ruling will be enforced with
severe punishment when anyone falling under the trash category breaks any
portion of the games policy.

As for Samm-
While I've been aware of Samm and his usual groupates (one being Hamm), I
haven't been on much while they were out 'randoming' so I never got into it.
Completely seperate from this, today somebody who apparently had a character
named Hamm at some point and hasn't been around asked me why he couldn't log
on Hamm. After talking to him and the real Hamm about it briefly it was sorted
out as far as I knew.

This had nothing to do with anything, other than it was the event that brought
my attention to Samm, not a pkill as you are suggesting. After seeing him and
Samm interacting, and realizing Samm was using several different emails on his
characters, I looked through some logs and saw what looked very suspiciously
like character sharing and/or multiing. After talking calmly and briefly about
this with Samm in the presense of some other immortals, we sorted out what
were Samm's characters, and what were supposedly his brothers. Less than an
hour after this, I see several characters from his ISP logging on and off in
succession, both his and 'his brothers', much too quickly for it to be two
people passing around a computer. After listening in on him for a while it
became apparent that:

If there were two people there, they most definitely shared, and he lied to me
In numerous tells he discussed with his friends and clanmates how they could
hide equipment gained from pkill with Samm onto his unaffiliated clan, thereby
seperating all of his 'randoming' from any mortal repercussions that may have
arisen from it, since Samm never had much of anything to lose himself.

After this I decided that two of his characters would be deleted, one that was
mid-ish level and had equipment gained from the pkilling and was tagged as
being in the clan that Samm was not, and one character that he had been logging
that should have not belonged to him. Also the character Samm was to be damned
for three weeks for overall trashy behaviour, and lying to me about who his
characters belonged to. I decided to bring you (the person who started this
thread) temporarily into the abyss with Samm to relay the message to your clan.

If you are going to feed equipment to your friends and clan by using throwaway
characters to gain it and unknowns to transfer it, you will be dealt with
harshly.

This was a warning for you and your clan, nothing more, you had no punishment
for being a part of what he was doing, which some have told me was lenient. Then,
for some reason you tried to justify yourself by saying that you specifically
had Samm kill certain people in addition to his randoming so that your clan
could take out targets without being affiliated. Also you said that you went so
far as to have Samm and friends kill one of your own multies (and return the
equipment of course) to try to prove some kind of distance from them.

That is why I said and will still say that you are a coward. You tell me that
major clans knew who you were, but after finding out that Samm was actually in
(an unnamed) clan, I had several tells from clan leaders naming other clans as
who they believed it was, all were wrong. Your clan and his other friends gained
a lot of equipment from him killing others, and nobody who was killed ever had
any idea who the real people behind it were, because the face of it was some
untagged trashy character that had only a set of shop equipment to lose.

Samm wasn't deleted because he killed a specific person, he was deleted because
he deserved to be, circumstances happened to bring him to my attention, and he
was rude. I do very little punishment anymore, and when I do 99% of the time
it's a warning. I don't believe I've ever deleted anyone before this, and I
wouldn't do it without very good reason, and I hope to not have to do it again.
I've played for a very long time, and put rediculous amounts of time into many
characters, so I don't take them away lightly.

Also Vespin has absolutely nothing to do with this in any way, other than being
a target of your paranoia.

Dude i kept logs. The bullshit reasons you took summon away from vanon, about killing only level 3' where i'm summoning 25's like lockhart etc. Hell check the game logs. if you want to cheese me fine. But dont piss on my leg and call yourself a bomb sniffing dog!

You killed my level 3 character with summon. Summoning a character to a zone with aggressive monsters, blinding them, and leaving them to die is pkilling them.

In my opinion you were using a trash character to pkill people for eq, and randoming complete newbies.

Hell, I think anyone who decides to random pk low level characters (who have no eq) deserves deletion because of the detrimental effect this has on the mud. Imagine you are a new character and within a few hours of playing someone kills you completely at random in a way from which you cannot protect yourself. Also imagine that while they are doing it, they are trash talking like crazy and calling you an idiot and a liar. I don't think I'd play that game much longer.

Get a grip, you acted like a 13 year old, and you got your punishment for it. "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

Dave

Education replaces force with reason.

I didn't say anything about your punishment, which had a slight bit to do with you summoning people, though it was mostly due to your attitude. I watched you tell several of your friends/clanmates that you were going to go on a "spree" because you disagreed with what I did to Samm. If you decide to take out frustration at my (in my view justified) punishment on your friend by summoning low level people into aggressive mobs, you're going to come off much worse than the people you are taking it out on. While you might have attempted to summon a few high level people, and successfully summoned (but didn't kill) some mid-high ones, the only ones that you did kill were all well under level ten, and several of them were just blinded and left without being killed (and one summoned twice, once after already having been killed).

Also, while I was taking the spell away from you, I had people higher than myself watching you and suggesting that you be deleted. All I decided to do was take summon away from you with a note saying someone can restore it if they wish after you cool down and stop acting like a jerk, or that I would do it myself eventually. At this rate, it doesn't seem likely, but who knows.

If you think I'm some raging maniac that is doing things for no reason or to help out my friends, there are plenty of immortals you can lobby to. I realize you log things, and you should realize what we both do is logged beyond what you will ever see, and I don't have reason to throw away the time that I've put into the game to help out people who are quite capable of helping themselves.

We had a discussion about this in-game today - just to emphasize:

1) The deletions had nothing to do with pkilling - it had everything to do with multiing and or sharing characters.
2) Summon was yanked from Vanon for the same reason I'd have done it - for summoning lowbies. I reinstated it today after our discussion.

Do read help trash - it really is quite descriptive. The rules of the game and the players of the game have changed dramatically over the past 12 or 13 years that I've been around here. Some of the things that were thought to be "funny" in the old days are considered "trash pkilling" now. Also, with the clan system in place as it is now, thing such as having unaffiliated "hitmen" at your disposal may also end up being frowned on. The game is ever evolving and while we hope we can keep everyone abreast of the rule "modifications" as we go, it's sometimes hard to define the rules as fast as the playerbase bends them. If you have any questions about the legitimacy of something you're doing or has been done to you, talk to me ingame.

Tregar, Mortal Affairs Liason

I'm not at liberty to say who plays what character, but I will say that your information is way off. Vespin hasn't had time to play "more than 3 hours" this wipe, in his words.

Also, it was basically admitted that the clan was using Samm and his ilk to equip clan members by filtering the gear through unknowns to avoid clan retribution.

One last point: none of the clans I talked to had any idea who Samm played and I've never heard of anyone having a known "alt" peaced. In fact, everyone I talked to in any of the clans with more than 5 members all gauranteed that they would have pkilled the entire clan his alt was in, repeatedly, if they knew who it was. To kick it up another notch: I've never heard of any clan, especially not Mael or Outlaws peacing just one character; all of a persons known characters are either hunted or they aren't with them.

Pretty much, nothing you've said makes any sense.

Summoning and killing lowbies out of retribution and getting away with it is somewhat lame.

Walking the Dark Path Alone