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Game Ideas / Re: Reincarnate and ability points
« Last post by Lloth on Today at 06:56:28 PM »
The reason I suggested this in the first place was to get away from exactly what you want, Corey. It's absolutely mind numbingly boring to spam the same 3-4 zones over and over again. The point I wanted to make was regardless if the ranks suck in a zone, you are still getting exp which in turn gives ranks, eventually. Like I said when I first suggested it, once you meet the requirements for that extra ranks via exp, the alignment penalty should be removed OR make everyone get the same exp as what a neutral would. But if you want to spam theiwer, drac tower and PI/mortigoth you certainly can. But it would just get more people to run zones "just because" instead of checking the mob ranks or doing only mid-high "exp zones"
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Game Ideas / Re: Reincarnate and ability points
« Last post by mikey on Today at 05:14:43 PM »
I love the reincarnation system! Slaughtering pigmies or kalaman recruits more than once a wipe is great!

I don't have much to add the the conversation, but I hope the staff knows that not everyone wants to alter/trash it.  Being able to play a second character and reincarnation have definitely been the biggest factors in my increased playtime.
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Game Ideas / Re: Reincarnate and ability points
« Last post by corey on Today at 12:25:23 PM »
Great discussions. I read some of the posts and personally I really liked Lloth's idea. I had actually suggested increasing the rank cap as an alternative to reincarnation before it was added, but it seemed not to gain much traction.

Currently, if you reincarnate all 6 times, you end up with the following benefits:
12 ranks
12 stat points
-6 saving spell
30-90 hit points
120 movement points

You also get the opportunity to change race a limited number of times throughout the process.

The entire process takes about 1.6 billion XP, perhaps less since you don't actually need to reach 1X per se, but let's skim that for now.

---

So I was thinking, if grinding XP to increase character power is the goal here, then maybe the following system could work:

Remove reincarnation, and replace it with a system where you can earn extra RP by gaining XP past the limit (beyond 1X). I'm thinking up to a maximum of 50 rank points, raising the effective rank limit to 100. (If you die, then you'd need to reach 1X to start earning that XP past the cap again.)

I'd say every 100 million XP or so you would gain an additional rank point. So you would need to gain 5 billion extra experience to hit the cap. It sounds like a lot, given that reincarnation 6 only takes 1.6 billion XP, but given that the rank cap would be increasing so much (to 100), I'd want it to be a lot, i.e. I don't want someone farming all 50 XP ranks in just 1 week. Additionally, you'll be level 30 throughout and simultaneously also gaining normal rank %, so you'd actually be gaining ranks faster than normal anyway.

Test and raise/lower the xp value per rank point as needed. Some things that would probably need to be considered:
 - How diminishing XP returns would work, or XP limits per mob (I imagine getting double XP at level 30 would move this SUPER fast for more knowledgeable players)
 - What the rank cap should be (100 is just my example thought)
 - Rank costs and rank purchase limits - may need some adjustment or restrictions.

I do concede that 100 rank points is a lofty maximum and makes options like legend + 2x damage shields + haste theoretically obtainable. So it would take some balance testing no doubt to find a good level of XP that makes the "xp cap" not obtainable too quickly, or restrictions on ranks such as certain ones being mutually exclusive with others.

Using 100 million per rank point as an example, then after about 1.2 billion XP you'd have gained 12 ranks, similar (RP wise) to the amount gained in reincarnation (~1.3 billion xp, 12 RP). XP does come faster, as you are level 30 throughout, but you lose out on the extra stuff (stat points/hp) that reincarnation would have provided. Another downside is that you can't change race through this system, so there might have to be provisions brainstormed for that somewhere.

A second side effect of this would be that depending on how the rank purchase limits are altered, this could make +stat gear more viable as well. In the current reincarnation system I can innately pump a stat by up to 12 points and then on top of that buy an additional 5 with ranks. In the new system, you wouldn't be able to pump your stats so high for free, and instead you'd have to spend those RP you gained on buying the stats, else start using +stat gear again.

Finally you'd also be able to work on XP when you felt like it without fear of losing out on grouping opportunities. If other people want to group for a high zone, or maybe also if a spell comes up for sale and you just reincarnated and tough luck in the current system, in the new system you wouldn't have that problem.

Thoughts welcomed.

I find this interesting to a degree, but may also have detrimental or beneficial side-effects, depending on which side of the coin you fall.

For example:
- Reincarnations reset exp caps on all mobs. Exp cap would need to be removed or some sort of reset would need to be introduced.
- I will be exping exclusively and consistently in 3-4 zones. I will not hesitate to take these from you and chase you away. Some people won't like that.
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Game Ideas / Re: Reincarnate and ability points
« Last post by Caine on Today at 08:07:08 AM »
Great discussions. I read some of the posts and personally I really liked Lloth's idea. I had actually suggested increasing the rank cap as an alternative to reincarnation before it was added, but it seemed not to gain much traction.

Currently, if you reincarnate all 6 times, you end up with the following benefits:
12 ranks
12 stat points
-6 saving spell
30-90 hit points
120 movement points

You also get the opportunity to change race a limited number of times throughout the process.

The entire process takes about 1.6 billion XP, perhaps less since you don't actually need to reach 1X per se, but let's skim that for now.

---

So I was thinking, if grinding XP to increase character power is the goal here, then maybe the following system could work:

Remove reincarnation, and replace it with a system where you can earn extra RP by gaining XP past the limit (beyond 1X). I'm thinking up to a maximum of 50 rank points, raising the effective rank limit to 100. (If you die, then you'd need to reach 1X to start earning that XP past the cap again.)

I'd say every 100 million XP or so you would gain an additional rank point. So you would need to gain 5 billion extra experience to hit the cap. It sounds like a lot, given that reincarnation 6 only takes 1.6 billion XP, but given that the rank cap would be increasing so much (to 100), I'd want it to be a lot, i.e. I don't want someone farming all 50 XP ranks in just 1 week. Additionally, you'll be level 30 throughout and simultaneously also gaining normal rank %, so you'd actually be gaining ranks faster than normal anyway.

Test and raise/lower the xp value per rank point as needed. Some things that would probably need to be considered:
 - How diminishing XP returns would work, or XP limits per mob (I imagine getting double XP at level 30 would move this SUPER fast for more knowledgeable players)
 - What the rank cap should be (100 is just my example thought)
 - Rank costs and rank purchase limits - may need some adjustment or restrictions.

I do concede that 100 rank points is a lofty maximum and makes options like legend + 2x damage shields + haste theoretically obtainable. So it would take some balance testing no doubt to find a good level of XP that makes the "xp cap" not obtainable too quickly, or restrictions on ranks such as certain ones being mutually exclusive with others.

Using 100 million per rank point as an example, then after about 1.2 billion XP you'd have gained 12 ranks, similar (RP wise) to the amount gained in reincarnation (~1.3 billion xp, 12 RP). XP does come faster, as you are level 30 throughout, but you lose out on the extra stuff (stat points/hp) that reincarnation would have provided. Another downside is that you can't change race through this system, so there might have to be provisions brainstormed for that somewhere.

A second side effect of this would be that depending on how the rank purchase limits are altered, this could make +stat gear more viable as well. In the current reincarnation system I can innately pump a stat by up to 12 points and then on top of that buy an additional 5 with ranks. In the new system, you wouldn't be able to pump your stats so high for free, and instead you'd have to spend those RP you gained on buying the stats, else start using +stat gear again.

Finally you'd also be able to work on XP when you felt like it without fear of losing out on grouping opportunities. If other people want to group for a high zone, or maybe also if a spell comes up for sale and you just reincarnated and tough luck in the current system, in the new system you wouldn't have that problem.

Thoughts welcomed.
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Game Ideas / Re: Higher character allowance?
« Last post by Dafin on Today at 05:51:44 AM »
Does one usually have to repop each piece of gear in a new place? Maybe it's easier to repop particular zone gear for 4 different classes at once, than to run for difference pieces for one character/class.
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Game Ideas / Re: Higher character allowance?
« Last post by Lloth on September 25, 2020, 03:29:48 PM »
There comes a point where you just have so much gear that you just need to play more than the 2 allowed. Personally, I hard having extra gear because I can't stand repopping it. He sure is resilient, I'll give him that.
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Game Ideas / Re: Higher character allowance?
« Last post by Gnua on September 25, 2020, 12:17:48 PM »
Corey already has so much gear maxxed out, my major concern about people playing more characters is that there would be even less gear available.
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Game Ideas / Re: Reincarnate and ability points
« Last post by Gnua on September 25, 2020, 12:16:55 PM »
Is there no feel of burnout for 6 reincarnates from others? It takes its toll on my soul.

"Grind a useless character to R6.  Legend.  Play for an OP character for a week. Quit"  seems to be the way a lot of my clannies have gone.  It also has seemed to further fractured the players base into groups that cant help eachother because of differing level/alignment. Medal grinding does not seem to interfere with grouping nearly as much as reincarnate grinding obstructs grouping.
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Game Ideas / Re: Reincarnate and ability points
« Last post by el conquistador on September 24, 2020, 08:53:26 AM »

I think the main reason for this seeming conflict of interest is the driving force behind these systems are/were not the same people. Adepali has long been an advocate of removing item decay, item limits, rent costs, and other little things that make the "competition" for item sets a thing of the past, and from what I understand, attunement was/is Adepali's project. Look at the qualities of it: No rent, no decay, no limit to how many can exist, you don't even lose them in a dt or deadbeat! The majority of the playerbase seems to enjoy them, they promote exploration, and now that you can raise them while in a group, they're no longer a solo project. I haven't seen any complaints about how they're not unique, or you didn't have to solve a huge quest line in order to gain access to them. They're simply a great item that has allowed many players to get the power to do more than they could do before. The main cost is time, but... That's what games are for. If you are willing to put in the time and effort, you get the reward. It's a way better system than putting in the time and effort and getting nothing because every good item out of the zone you're exploring is already maxxed, so all you did was risk your equipment, and likely lose a ton of exp in the process.

thats why adepali is the best!  ive been pretty much in full agreement with everything he has ever put forward

i believe he was also the main force behind lowering the skill grind requirements for many of the more painful skills to superb.  the guy knows how to make the game more enjoyable for the average player.
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Game Ideas / Re: Reincarnate and ability points
« Last post by Jorquin on September 23, 2020, 09:55:11 PM »
Fair points.
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