Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: Keith on August 26, 2013, 08:03:45 PM

Title: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Keith on August 26, 2013, 08:03:45 PM
I apologize in advance for the long essay.  This initially touched on the "just open it" thread from above, but then went somewhere far different.  This is somewhat related to, yet expanded on a previous post of mine.

I agree with opening it up; basic maps/walkthroughs to low-mid level zones and leveling guides won't hurt anyone and could help any potential newbies if they exist.  Arctic has long been against anything resembling "open", although more recently has been moving that direction.  The posting of weapon sets, alteration of fake.lore and no.lore has long been necessary to minimize the necessity of having a cheat immortal who will stat stuff for you.  On the other hand, we are relying more and more on the judgement of the immortals to decide mortal matters, which is decidedly less open.  I.e. Besides being ruthless and a prick, I haven't heard what rule Mumu broke that deserved deletion?  Giving immortals unilateral control to delete characters with days of playtime by their discretion is ripe for abuse and vendettas.  If you thought that there was complaining before about bias in the immortal ranks, get ready for next wipe when one clan gets targetted where others are left alone... In any case, Sabibi has some good ideas, but I'm not sure that any of them will result in a dramatic change in population, which is what we all would hope for.

Obviously Arctic isn't retaining the same amount of players as it gains in newbies.  The question is, what is wrong with Arctic?
1.  The game itself.
2.  The players of the game.
3.  Out-of-touch immortals.

The game itself is over 20 years old; it is impressive it has lasted THIS long.  There are much shinier games with many more people, geared either to PVE (WoW, Guild Wars, etc.) or PVP (LOL, Darkfall).  The PVE (on the high end) struggles to find a balance between zones getting steamrolled and zones that take HOURS to complete. Along with this, there are bizarre keywords that require groups spend hours trying to figure new zones (or being friends with the creator/some imm with knowledge), which a lot of people find very annoying.  The PVP mostly revolves around quick strikes with unbalanced ambushes against unsuspecting players, or sitting around for hours waiting for your opponent to get the nerve to leave the inn (which they never do).  All of this does not fit into my average working man's schedule well; when I get a chance to play, I have to hope that I have several clanmates on (and at least more than Myths/Maza/Wilds to kick them off) who want to play in order to hopefully have enough time to do a zone that I have enough time to finish. 

Even more importantly, there is a warring ideology between players:  some believe Arctic should be primarily PVE, with only gentlemenly contests between clans (no ambushes, no hunting unknowns) vs. those that believe Arctic should remain the cutthroat game it has always been.  I would suggest that many, many more people leave out of boredom rather than because they were pked.  Alleviating boredom causes some players to random, but I agree this can be detrimental on the game if it causes more players to quit than it saves.  There is a very fine line which Arctic has been able to walk in the past, but I'm not sure it is doing as well now.

I throw in the immortals, even while knowing they have put in a lot of work on the game.  I think that sometimes they consider Arctic how it used to be when they were mortal (which is a long, long time ago for some and increasingly longer as you move up the levels), or how it is on their fully-equipped, great-statted test character with access to all zone/item knowledge, compared to the average person.  We had a great discussion about botting/multiing a few threads back, which a lot of people chipped on on their opinions and where the vast majority of players were for at least a trial of such... which Aristox quickly squashed.  Obviously, he believes he knows better than the majority; I remain unconvinced.  There is some vague messaging about coming changes; this would be the perfect time for another open, honest discussion of the changes.  I would think you would not want to alienate the few players left with changes that the majority hates, and if that's the case, I would think you would want to ask us before spending the days of coding for it.  At this point, it is our game as much at it is yours; you have done a lot of work on the back end so that we can play it on the front end, unless you want to code for no one.  Why not let us have input (and not just ask us what our input is before you do whatever you want)?

I believe that Arctic's low population is a combination of the above: an aging game with players who are on each other's last nerve, with immortals who have lost touch with what the average player wants.  My suggestions would be:  some level of allowed multiing, a pk system that is toggleable when war is declared or certain items are worn (with the knowledge that the enemy clan will be able to zone while you are on), changing the zones that never end to something quicker to finish, less emphasis on ridiculous kws (or more emphasis on in-zone clues), frequent pwipes to decrease boredom, and more concern from immortals about minor balance tweaks (debuffing tether, relo while buffing hunt/track) and less concern about groundbreaking changes.  The last (and probably most important) part is trying to obtain more newbies... which I will leave to someone else. 

Flame on.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Dyl on August 26, 2013, 11:27:33 PM
Frequent pwipes where eee eee.  Its Christmas in July????
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: RichE on August 27, 2013, 01:15:41 AM
Just can't drop the Multi thing eh?
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Keith on August 27, 2013, 05:52:00 AM
No.  It was the prospect of allowing it that excited me to come back this time in the first place.  Also, it is still happening (outside of SoB), though I don't really blame them with the low numbers around.  When I log on, I'd like to be able to have a group to do a fun zone that doesn't take all night to do.  Anything that accomplishes that more easily, I will be for.  Bots are the easiest answer, but not the only.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 27, 2013, 07:20:11 PM
Boo Botting.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 27, 2013, 07:28:59 PM
If you really want to fix any sort of declining playerbase issue, bite the bullet accept that a couple should get permanently banned before they chase off even more of the playerbase for this awesome game. And im sure names dont even need to be said, it should be quite obvious which minority is causing issues for the majority. I can say that maybe if some players disappear because they cant get past that arctic isnt ONLY about pk... it will be far less than those who do disappear because they are sick of wasting time trying to learn only to find themselves stuck in peacerooms because they will either be randomed OR they will fight back and a whole clan will simply target them in which case they will likely end up in peace rooms. Sure a little pk is fine, but at what point is it worth ruining other peoples arctic experiences? Its pathetic really. I personally would accept a ban trade and never come back to arctic to have at least one douchebag removed in exchange so that maybe more people could enjoy what is left of the mud without getting randomed at the solace shop at level 25 by a naked legend druid.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Hoodoo on August 27, 2013, 10:10:23 PM
Give it up, Gramm.  Trying to convince trash that trash isn't a valid playstyle is like trying to convince Bryton that, yes, his dates really should say 'yes' before he 'gets to know' them.  Or that he shouldn't have to rape sheep.

Jason
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Hoodoo on August 27, 2013, 10:23:59 PM
Also, I remember seeing some in SoB claim 'But we don't bot anymore!'   

Utter, complete horseshit.  There is at least one known SoB bot team online now. Not really hidden, to anyone who is paying attention, either, so I know SoB doesn't care. 

Jason
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Bryton on August 27, 2013, 10:44:08 PM
Gramm your logic is crazy. You show me a list of people that have quit this game due to pk and I will show you a list of people that have quit due to boredom. My list will be longer every time, rarely does anyone quit due to pk. The reason people quit is due to boredom and real life situations and thats basically it.

The problem is the end game of arctic is super boring, why do you think we get so many numbers when it wipes ? If you want more people to play and play longer, the mid game and end game needs to be fixed. Everyone gets tired of running zones 10000 times for items especially after they have all the spells they need. There have been lots of ideas that have been thrown out there to fix this. buuuuuuuuuutttttttttttttt i doubt anything will happen. GG

Oh and I think it would be cool if the system announced when top end equipment decayed.

System: Humas Shield Decayed

P.S
Gramm just cause you and Nate screwed your clan, it doesn't mean that pk is ruining arctic. Just don't be a jerk/idiot or socialize with jerks/idiots.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: enochvey on August 27, 2013, 11:35:36 PM
Every time I have left this game/taken a break it has been because of randoming or other prickish behavior from the playerbase. It is impossible for me to be bored on this game, I can ALWAYS find something to do if im not forced to innsit.

Again, there is NOTHING about the game itself or the imms (even morgion) which has ever caused me to take a break/quit. The xp requirements are NOT the reason! Over the years I developed the ability to bounce back from a multitide of pve deaths by solo xping. This skillset I found to be FAR more powerful when I came back to the game this time because of a number of very good game changes. If the xp loss/requirements didn't make me quit before these changes, why would I be concerned about it now?

Instead it has been a multitude of negative interactions with the player base that has made me leave EVERY single time. Random killings, exceedingly poor general social skills, inexplicably hostile and enduring personal grudges that suck everyone nearby those involved into the mess, cheating, lying, whining, stealing, scorched earth war policies, having sharp disagreements with friends that change the nature of the friendship... Things like this are what have made me leave. 

Unfortunately, that's pretty much how I expect this run of mine to end eventually as well. Sad to say, Arctic is as Arctic does. Way it has been, way it will always be until the bitter whimpering end. That is unless something drastic is changed that prevents one portion of the playerbase from utterly ruining it for the other(s) for extended periods of time.

No I don't have any bright ideas of how to fix the game to change this, and no for the eleventy billionth time bots are not the answer. What I do know is that the game can remain exactly as it is, and I won't run into any of the problems I've seen before if people would value the other lines of text on their screens as human beings, even the ones they don't like.

So how about we all try that eh?
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Shesh on August 28, 2013, 12:39:03 AM
killings, exceedingly poor general social skills, inexplicably hostile and enduring personal grudges that suck everyone nearby those involved into the mess, cheating, lying, whining, stealing, scorched earth war policies, having sharp disagreements
Good lord, you're living large. I haven't had half of that in what, 14 years of playing? Please tell us more.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Dyl on August 28, 2013, 01:37:00 AM
Vuddy will code all disagreements out of the system.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Zozen on August 28, 2013, 08:16:21 AM
Aristox has to take into account the silent majority as well, not just the most outspoken proponents for Botting/Multiing. Not all players post their thoughts and opinions on the General Discussion section.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Ezio on August 28, 2013, 11:08:02 AM
How many majority's does Arctic have?!
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Aristox on August 28, 2013, 11:21:14 AM
Just stepping in to nit pick one part of this, then I will step back out and lurk.

We had a great discussion about botting/multiing a few threads back, which a lot of people chipped on on their opinions and where the vast majority of players were for at least a trial of such... which Aristox quickly squashed.  Obviously, he believes he knows better than the majority; I remain unconvinced.

First, yes it was a great discussion.

Second, it was not the vast majority of players, it wasn't even 40% of them. It was the vast majority of people who post on the forums, which is a small % of the playerbase.  Just because 5 guys posted 12 times each doesn't mean there are 60 people all for the idea.

Third, I am not sure how letting the discussion go on for 5 days and have 12 pages of posts is quickly squashing something.

Fourth, I don't believe I know better than the majority of the players, I believe I have the best interest of the game in mind while a good number of players have only their own interests in mind. My job is to stand back and see the whole picture, not what is fun for a few vocal people.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: enochvey on August 28, 2013, 01:07:09 PM
killings, exceedingly poor general social skills, inexplicably hostile and enduring personal grudges that suck everyone nearby those involved into the mess, cheating, lying, whining, stealing, scorched earth war policies, having sharp disagreements
Good lord, you're living large. I haven't had half of that in what, 14 years of playing? Please tell us more.

Happens every day to some extent to a decent portion of the playerbase. I'd suggest reading some more of the posts on these forums, or pretty much any pk log on suf's for examples...
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 28, 2013, 01:43:01 PM
Bryton you random the hell out of everyone when we strike back you get your clan full of pure pk asshats involved. we all sit in the inn. Tyvm who is causing the most boredom here?  You are a mud cancer, pretty straight forward logic. You can twist it and turn it anyway you want, your the type of douchebag who logs on naked as a druid, kills like 3 untagged neutrals for shits and giggles and logs off wearing half a warrior set, 1/4 a thief set, and some random cleric shit. Your buddies need to grow up and let you die alone for this kind of trashy play.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: reed23 on August 28, 2013, 02:14:37 PM
Gramm, who is pure asshats in SoB?  Why do you constantly throw flames out against our clan?  Yes, Bryton does like to PK, but I am not aware of anyone who has quit the game because of him.  Although I do appreciate you spouting off on the forums and what not because there are now 7-11 people in our clan who have come back to the mud in the past 2 weeks, mostly due to yours and Nate's mouths gone wild.

Here is a semi-interesting thought related to PK.  It seems to be an issue, especially with Bryton's class that you can die, remem, and be back in action literally within ticks killing people.  What if there was something in the game where if you got PK'd xxxx amount of times, you character was perma-deleted.  So let's say that number was placed at 10.  If you all thought Bryton was such a chump, all you would have to do is gang up on him, kill him 10x, and he would be done for.  That would also eliminate "trash"/"riskless" pking because you knew that if you died 10x to these other people, you would be Gonzo!
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 28, 2013, 02:29:11 PM
Actually that is not a terrible idea entirely... Except for those accidental friendly fire pks lol. And if you all werent so busy pasting hate posts against the man on the forum maybe we wouldnt spout anything back, to be honest i didnt get overly involved until jack started running his mouth about sucking dicks and this that and the other reed, i was quite content to keep it civil.  And the trash i speak of is the trash that not only dominated all of the major clans at the wipe start, but then out of boredem or maybe spite came after the rest of the mud after that. I do recall pretty much begging shesh to leave the 4 man myth clan we had alone at the time, and he demanded a ridiculous amount of +dams in exchange for peace, actually he asked myth to get ilya to give us dams lol.... Once you all got pzapped for being "those guys" your remaining two affiliates poof raped what was left of the mud. After allllllllllll that happened... no sobs around lots of neutral zoning happening. Certainly some positive things anyways.... Bryton returned, and what does he do? review previous post please.

Stop pretending reed that your friends are in the right, if bryton never returned, all this hate pasting and shit on the forums would not be happening, you would never have helped bryton pk myths and there would be no war. Which im sure would disappoint you because where else would a group of pk veterans have their fun if not on a crew that strictly tries to zone. If i am wrong feel free to tell me why, id like to actually hear it.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: reed23 on August 28, 2013, 02:55:33 PM
All inter-clan pk's from friendly fires would be coded so they would not go against your total tally of deaths.

On the other note, in my opinion, it is impossible for 1 player to ruin the mud.  I dont care if bryton randoms, if there are 2-3 man groups, they should be able to blitz him all the time.  Bryton has never multi'd, so at worse, you have a legend druid running around that should be very easy to kill.  And for the record, I was never pzapped nor was jack.  If you didn't want such a backlash from SoB, you probably shouldn't have ran your mouth behind our backs, i.e. I shit on Reed 3x today, making up ficticious tells (Nate) that i was asking for info to him, etc. etc.  Making up that bullshit and trashtalking probably got a laugh from most of the mud and even people in our clan, but it doesn't sit well with us for too long.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 28, 2013, 03:08:47 PM
Legend entangle can take out a 2-3 man group no problem as we saw today with a 4man group while 3 of us sat there entangled watching him 1v1 the 4th. No problem eh? what dream world are you living in?  And you and jack were not around during the asshattery, so neither of you are those asshats. But a good portion of your crew was around for long enough to have us sit in the inn for a month long before sob had and real justification.  I have not seen Keesha/jack or Pinster/reed actually act trashy at all this wipe. But i can say that the moment pinster started picking off myth with ilank/bryton was the moment all of myth demanded something happen in response. You didnt leave me much choice reed. All you do as a pure pk clan is effectively choke out any next generation groups and would be leaders because you refuse to let anyone have room to breathe before u deem them a large enough group to test your mettle on. Stop backing randomers let them get what they deserve he doesnt even need your help im sure he would kill enough folks without you.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: reed23 on August 28, 2013, 03:23:59 PM
Who did I pk with Bryton??? You guys are delusional!!!!!!  Bryton killed one person, you guys attacked Kiljarn, I talked to you on mud, you said you can't help it but your clan is upset with bryton and war with SoB is inevitable, so this is your warning for war.  Word for Word bro!  We were fine with you killing Bryton.  You guys declared the war, not us!  Come on.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Bryton on August 28, 2013, 03:40:23 PM
Madule tells you 'well we might not want peace :)'

gramm you whine so much i offered peace and it was turned down. This whole thing is on you bro...
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: sart on August 28, 2013, 04:07:36 PM
Which clan is backing randomers?  What now?
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 28, 2013, 04:09:25 PM
edit.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: DCPTY1986 on August 28, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
Gramm,

I ran those bots before they got pzapped and never ran around pkilling any newbies.  I think you're confusing Essovius and Mumu with the 10 man that I was running around purely doing zones with.  The only time I ever brought them into PK was when we jumped delete in Silvanesti and the fight on Luni.  I had no motivation to use a 10 man to kill 1 myth with an Ergothian set.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 28, 2013, 04:37:03 PM
2013-08-28 12:24:42 Ilank killed Zerataal.
2013-08-28 13:48:36 Ilank killed Drudden.
2013-08-28 13:48:51 Ilank killed Tritty.
2013-08-28 14:37:56 Ilank killed Madule.
2013-08-28 14:42:18 Ilank killed Brenn.

 [return for more, q to stop]
2013-08-28 14:42:22 Vetch killed Ilank.
2013-08-28 16:34:54 Ilank killed Pearlly.
2013-08-28 16:35:00 Ilank killed Naomi.
Bryton you are a piece of garbage. I dub thee the asshat. Only two of the above were myth.

Ilank offering peace, but his condition are :
1. Locki dt with eq
2. i give his shield back
3. he keeps hunting nate

yea very peaceful terms asshat.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Gramm on August 28, 2013, 05:37:16 PM
Here is an idea, for every hour of game time you have wasted for another player purely for your own personal enjoyment you dt yourself. and enjoy level 4 again.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Kir on August 28, 2013, 05:45:23 PM
Gramm... your logic is so flawed.

You claim that Bryton is a game-killer. Yet he attacked you guys, you attacked him and "declared war" on SOB by ambushing Kiljarn. Now SOB has 12-15 people who decided to come back and play (due to the fact that the game is only interesting to players like us when we are at war). So really, Bryton is basically the life-force of arctic. It is not Bryton's fault that you declared war and now your clannies have to sit in the inn. There are several clans that can still zone and play when they are at war with SOB, like Dele (and Wild to a lesser extent). It is not anybody's fault that your clan, even though you outnumber us constantly can not play to the level that we do. You guys decided to declare war and you die and then you cry. I don't get it. I don't know you personally but in my experience it is not "ok" for a man to cry and complain all the time. This reminds me of a quote:

I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself.
 A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
 without ever having felt sorry for itself

-D.H. Lawrence

You will never get anywhere in this game or life by constantly making excuses for yourself. You will only get better by working to improve yourself to be better. There is nothing Hoss or Aristox can do can to make Myth the dominant clan in the game outside of sitebanning all the other players. If you guys want to be a great clan you have to work as a team, play better, be more cunning and intelligent than your opponents. That is the GREATEST aspect about arctic. The cream will always rise to the top.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Aristox on August 28, 2013, 05:46:19 PM
Maybe one of the reasons we tend to not take a lot of stock in things said on the forums is that every thread that gets more than 10 posts turns into name calling.

How about everyone take a deep breath and think about the topic of the thread before you post.  Sniping is helping no one.

That said, if you want to shit on each other we have a forum (Clan Bitching) for that. Use it.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: dodok on August 28, 2013, 06:10:56 PM
I actually got randomed by Ilank (Brynton?) when I was lev 15 or so.  I think he realized I was just a noob and messaged me that my gear was terrible and to come get it back.  I had just finally found my way to solace from tarsis and didn't have any coins in the bank so I couldn't even buy a flight potion (not to mention I always get lost in the bog).. So, he actually came to tarsis, picked me up and brought me back to my corpse!

True story!
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Keith on August 28, 2013, 07:22:20 PM
I decided to go back through the last multi thread, just for shits and giggles, to count up who picked what.  These are my judgement on who was for and against multiing, but most of them were pretty easy "I would play more if multiing were allowed".  I did have a few I couldn't decide based on their posting which side they were on.  A total of 41 (not counting Hoss/Aristox) different people posted.

For: 26/41 (63%)
1.  Sart - allow it and do not police ips, or mirror the server
2.  Kir - 2 chars only
3.  Reed23 - 2 chars only
4.  Anaya - 2 chars only
5.  Willoe - 2 chars only
6.  fulloflife - test botting wipe
7.  eddiex - allow botting but don't be an arse policy
8.  snax - allow botting but don't be an arse policy, or rentable progressive pets
9.  Super Tacoman - reduce group size plus allowing bots
10.  Aemon - full unrestricted botting
11.  Enochvey - 2 chars from 1 IP
12.  Jarrad - botting okay but enjoys playing with friends more
13.  Brafu - would play more with 2-3, but more concerned with some players
14.  DCPTY1986
15.  Chisul
16.  Corey
17.  Gnua
18.  gulca - botting less of an issue than players, bot trial period
19.  xellos
20.  Keith - 2-3 chars per IP
21.  Malthros - botting ok, but assholes are the main problem
22.  Rhys
23.  NisK
24.  Bryton - max 2
25.  Slunt
26.  eli - (until pked by bot army, please fix pk first)

Against: 11/41 (27%)
1.  Dyl
2.  Gramm (although may be for allowing it and forbidding in pk)
3.  Hoodoo
4.  Boots (but wouldn't affect how much he plays, unless bot pk is rampant)
5.  btown
6.  muddeer
7.  Vespin - would not play at all if botting legal
8.  lipman
9.  kilians - would not play at all if botting legal
10.  Zervun
11.  daniel_1 - initially kind of pro, but doesn't want to learn how to script (has manually multied in the past)

Unable to pin down pro/against: 4/41 (10%)
1.  ?Shesh - botting not the problem, pk (and people not wanting it) is
2.  Nostramazos - botting only if pk system fixed
3.  Basher -
4.  Jozheg - remove pk/eq limits, add arena

Analyzing those numbers, to me 41 players is probably a pretty good indication of the mud split, although I don't have the information that the immortals have on total number of players.  Over 2 to 1 players based on that thread would prefer some kind of multiing.  Most commonly seen was a player +1 type thing.  I know if I made one, I would have my primary character plus a healer/shaman.  There were 3 main negatives based on those against:  worry of trash pk/aggression by individual players now strengthened by a bot, feeling like it goes against the fabric of Arctic to allow multiing, and desire to not have to learn how to script/bot to be effective.  A common thread was that fixing PK was more important than the question of botting/not botting.

@Aristox: I apologize of the wording of my previous post.  You didn't just immediately lock the thread, which was never my meaning.  It's just that a lot of us felt like -finally- the immortals are wanting our opinion, which as you can see above was overwhelmingly for botting, and we were left with a quick no multiing/botting policy post and some fairly vague ideas on what you guys were working on.  Most of us that are still here after more than a decade (closing in on 2+ for some) want what is best for the game, so second-guessing is inevitable, especially when you have a bunch of people who always know what is best.  Allowing multiing is the easiest way to change Arctic; if you don't think it's good for the game, then I think a lot of us would like ideas more fleshed out on how you plan to change the game besides stating that you would be adjusting things so you can lower the group limit (which I am not sure a lot of people would be for, i.e. if you have 11 people on, usually 10 people zone and 1 person logs off).

Another strategy would be a tag-along/henchmen type thing, where you could buy/rent 1 cleric/warrior/barbarian/mage/druid at your level, with some scripted things that they would do, i.e. heal (or cure depending on level), fly, rescue, bash, etc.  These could immediately quit out/recall if the person with them went aggressor.  This wouldn't be as fun as multiing but would serve the same purpose.

Of course, this was just 1 of several ideas from my original post, but this is always going to be the most inflammatory (other than clan bitching).
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: DCPTY1986 on August 29, 2013, 06:27:34 AM
not only did they say they were for the idea but the majority also said they would play longer into wipes if it were allowed.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Kir on August 29, 2013, 07:15:43 AM
nice posts keith
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: reed23 on August 29, 2013, 08:26:33 AM
That's Dr. Keith to you..... I wanted to do the above also Keith but was too lazy.  Nice work, I was curious about exactly what you provided.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Ezio on August 29, 2013, 10:31:07 AM
It is a bad idea and it would ruin the game by furthering the huge gaping chasm between the script writing 20 year vets and the average player. Ive played a small % compared to the majority and even I'm positive it would send arctic on a fast decline. All of the "Me" (selfish) play will increase, which only harms never helps.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: btown on August 29, 2013, 12:54:43 PM
Let's give an example why botting is bad.  Last night I logged for a little bit me and one of my buddy's to play around lookin for some type of "pk action"

We were greeted by Ilanku and Blake so there we are I dared one to hit me so he did,  anyway we end up running away and then all of a sudden 7 of them bastards were on!!

I was already sorta pissed at this fag action by over trippling our numbers just to make a quick pk and end all fun.

Now they could have been botting them other chars I am not sure.  Maybe a couple.  BUT if botting was legal.  For one they could have logged 14 chars instead of 7 vs our 2?   ok if we botted we could have logged 2 extras.  So 4v14 .  How the hell is that fair?

I already am not really playing but without a doubt SoB would ruin this game if botting was legal.  \



P.S.  I know Oz was there and came and agro'd you but he wasn't with us.  Only after did you log 3 did we summon him which we never even had time to group him.  So our group never exceeded 2 members.  Also we were there to pick a fight with MYTH also.

Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: DCPTY1986 on August 29, 2013, 02:41:53 PM
Brandon,

Have you not read what Jack posted previously in this thread? SOB has no bots, all of those were all real people.  You just decided to attack the wrong people, just like Myth did.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: btown on August 29, 2013, 02:47:59 PM
Yea but that wasn't the point.  My point is if you did also have bots you would have us outnumbered 14-2  unless we wanted to bot it would still be 14-4..  get it?
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: gulca on August 29, 2013, 03:10:51 PM
One thing that forum users must realize is that there are many players (old and new) have imms of some sort, and they voice their opinions in those imm boards or in some other private channels.

And not all active players are comfortable with posting in open forums (or posting at all), esp with the amount of flaming and criticism going around here.

So although the forum's users are leaning towards one side, that doesn't necessary mean the player base (active and non-active) are leaning in the same direction. And I'm pretty sure the voices of people with imm holds an edge over yours and mine (the norm players).


Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Ezio on August 29, 2013, 03:25:27 PM
I'm not sure why anyone cares if botting is legal when, even with max 30 players connected, I spot them all over krynn anyway...is the occasional pzap that inconvenient?

It is clear that anyone can do it now, and as long as they lay low pk wise and asshat wise the odds of being left alone are in their favor. So claims that anyone would play more if it was allowed are, for lack of a better vocab, bogus.

I make the claim that there are more creative answers out there. I think attitudes of players need to change a bit overall. Making spies and level 1 looting talking shit etc, you get the point. I feel like there are players that started this mud at 13 years of age and just still play the exact same way.

Do what you want to do, but if you enjoy the game and want to support its longevity, maybe just keep that in mind while you play it
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: DCPTY1986 on August 29, 2013, 03:39:17 PM
BIA layed pretty low they didn't bother anyone, all they wanted to do was zone and guess what they got PZAPPED and deleted i think from what I've been told.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: btown on August 29, 2013, 04:13:06 PM
Thats because botting is illegal..  and they acquired huge amounts of eq and spells that they shouldn't have been able to atleast at the pace they did by botting.

Nothing against BIA but they were busted and punished...  sounds legit
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Kir on August 29, 2013, 04:19:40 PM
Thats because botting is illegal..  and they acquired huge amounts of eq and spells that they shouldn't have been able to atleast at the pace they did by botting.

Nothing against BIA but they were busted and punished...  sounds legit

Nobody is saying that the punishment wasn't justified by the rules Brandon, we are saying the rules are the problem. All the danes wanted to do was zone, be left alone, and enjoy arctic. They didn't hurt anybody, and they were punished and forced into quitting. If it was 5 people playing 10 chars or 7 chars playing 10, who really cares, the problem is that is that artic has less players now then before they quit, and plz don't use the argument that they made people quit by botting because they simply did not. I liked the game better with them in it personally, not to say anything bad about the game, but the danes are an established part of the game and their presence is surely missed.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: btown on August 29, 2013, 05:38:42 PM
I don't have to make that argument because that wasn't the point.  As I said in my post they acquired stuff they shouldn't have been able to or at least at the pace that they did.    People who bot are also serving other players an injustice by spamming zones and storing eq which doesn't end up circulating because you can easily repop your eq with your army of bots. 

That is why they got punished.  They knew the rules and still botted so it's not like it was a big surprise,  they happen to know most of arctic therefore a big loss of equipment.  If it was a newbie who botted they would lose nothing and nobody would notice. 
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: fulloflife on August 29, 2013, 08:49:56 PM
I applaud Keith for compiling some actual data- unlike the hand waving that seems to be going on all the time. This makes me go back to the bot debate which I have strong feelings about.

To recap: Immorts ask for opinion on bots, many opinions are given, and then immorts just say, thanks, we're not going to do anything with super vague reasons.

Go read Aristox's post where he finds it too inconvenient to post detailed reasons about why he isn't changing the bot policy because he thinks people will nit pick it. Seriously? You think not saying why is any better?

That's Arctic- a model of transparency




Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: sart on August 30, 2013, 01:47:29 AM
You know looking around the mud .. I can see quite a few I know are bots.. most know are bots.

I will continue to obey the rules.  But I know on wipe day, that others are leveling 2 or more characters in the time I am leveling one.  This is maddening.

I wont voice on botting directly here, but the advantage it gives to those that cheat is completely unacceptable.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Rhys on August 30, 2013, 06:04:02 AM
You know looking around the mud .. I can see quite a few I know are bots.. most know are bots.

I will continue to obey the rules.  But I know on wipe day, that others are leveling 2 or more characters in the time I am leveling one.  This is maddening.

I wont voice on botting directly here, but the advantage it gives to those that cheat is completely unacceptable.

The above is the reason I will not come back.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Kir on August 30, 2013, 10:20:34 AM
You know looking around the mud .. I can see quite a few I know are bots.. most know are bots.

I will continue to obey the rules.  But I know on wipe day, that others are leveling 2 or more characters in the time I am leveling one.  This is maddening.

I wont voice on botting directly here, but the advantage it gives to those that cheat is completely unacceptable.

The above is the reason I will not come back.

See, the prejudice anti-botters are already not playing because of perceived botting, we might as well open the game back up to people who very much enjoy arctic while playing more than 1 character at a time.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: reed23 on August 30, 2013, 10:51:45 AM
If you enjoy arctic and are quitting because some people bot, boo hoo boo hoo!  Cheating goes on in every aspect of life, but I hope you havent given up on that...  Government, work, relationships, etc. etc. etc.  If you have a group of 3-4 friends on wipe day, botters will have 0 advantage over you.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: btown on August 30, 2013, 11:22:58 AM
You know I hate to admit it but Kir is right,  I actually went threw all of his post and read them with my right eye closed and it all made more sense.

I  strongly suggest creating immortal characters 34+ for all of SoB members.  I mean what could go wrong?
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Keith on August 30, 2013, 06:33:21 PM
You guys draw SoB into every single post.  This isn't about SoB.  This is not about Mumu, it is not about Essovius, and it is not even about Aemon.  If you are inned and die to 2 man tether/bashing teams, it isn't because of multiing/botting; it is because of overpowered tether/relo/bashing combination.  There's absolutely no reason to bring that up every single thred.  People will always be able (I hope) to come up with 2 people for PK.  We have "Don't be an asshole" policy in place to prevent this in the future as well.  Also, having overpowered mages with all-spells is an Arctic tradition:  see past logs of Kiaranlansalee, Loafie, Kiff, etc. killing full groups by themselves.  It isn't just this wipe where that has been an issue; Mumu and company just took it upon themselves to try to kill everyone rather than one group.

 There are people multiing/botting right now; that much is clear.  The question is whether you would prefer to have 2 characters or 1 be the baseline. If you are going to lose 7-2, you are going to lose 14-4 (although at least the 14 won't be able to area), so why does that matter?  If group size is still 10, and you can come up with 10 people to play, you won't need bots at all.  I agree it's really annoying that some people are multiing when I don't feel like I can because of the current rules.  My game experience would be better with multiing/botting; I and many others (based on the previous thread) would play more if we each were allowed 2 players per IP.  I would have a healer class to go with my tank; I would be able to level 2 characters at the same time (which is really nice when you are on a very limited time schedule).  I would be more flexible for groups when we go into 10 man zoning.  Yes, people will abuse it, but people are abusing it right now when the limit is 1.  It just gives the people who aren't abusing it more of a level playing field. The problem will be the same; imms will still have to catch those abusing the rules (anyone playing more than 2)  and abyss/delete/ban them.  It doesn't raise the ceiling; it just raises the floor. 

I came up with a less favorable to me, solution involving henchmen.  Do the anti-botters prefer that?  I would doubt that the imms would; I'm sure it would take a lot of coding to prevent their abuse.

I also had a list of other things I would hope to have changed.  What do you guys think of that?  #2 on my list is trying to decrease zone times.  It seems like creators nowadays are trying to outdo themselves making zones longer and longer.  People loved old Sleet, old HCT because they were quick and fun, while loading cool gear and spells.  A lot of people don't do Cyan anymore because it takes hours of prep to go against a mob that only gets harder and harder... 5 hours of wasted time to die and lose my set, while the Mrs. breathes down my neck waiting for me to rent?  Thanks but no thanks.  That mob used to be soloable, lol.  I don't mean to make it soloable, but it is getting ridiculous.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Hoss on August 30, 2013, 07:11:19 PM
I have been tracking this thread and didn't really want to post on it, because it degraded quickly into the typical poo-flinging and I don't have the time nor patience to sift through 100 lbs of shit for that one small nugget of gold. I have honestly been waiting for the thread to reach Godwin's law so that I could lock it.

I am more than happy to have discussion, debate and heated argument when it is productive, this isn't one of those threads.

The thread starts with several underhanded attacks on the staff, the players and everyone "else" that doesn't have the same ideology as a single vocal group of players. Some statistics are shown, grumbling went back and forth between some players and then we try to realign under the botting ideology as the only solution to world hunger. I am not giving Sally Struthers a single penny.

We looked at many things when we opened the discussion about multiplay/botting up, knowing that it was a Pandora's box. We appreciated the feedback that was given from many of you, and came to the conclusion at the end of the day that it was not a direction that we were willing to move in. What came next was expected, and very draining on us.

Instead of the community banding together to propel the game forward, we are now bombarded with diatribe after diatribe and it has only reinforced to me that Aristox and I made the right decision at this point for the game. I ask now that we agree to disagree on the matter and keep some civil dialogue going that will actually improve things. You have all heard me before say that I detest the "win at all costs, drive people from the game" mentality and it is the pro-bot camp that I see this attitude displayed the most.

There are many aspects of the game that the staff is currently working on to improve, but I would love to stop having my drive to move forward on those items drained from me every time I read one of these threads. We are moving in a forward direction without botting/multiplay, I would like you all to get on board and help the Arctic community improve but I am not going to continue along this path.

Hunger is no laughing matter.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Zozen on August 30, 2013, 09:30:47 PM
Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: reed23 on August 30, 2013, 11:13:16 PM
Hoss - it would probably help everyone move forward if we were given some sort of bone to chew on regarding what your and aristox's alternative plan is to the booting discussion.  I am sure most people pro-botting think that we had this big discussion, it appears the majority was pro-botting, the staff shot it down, and then no new information has been given.  I don't understand the big secrecy of arctic.  Why not put some excitement in the air and say hey we are working on this...... and not give all the details.  Everyone feels forgotten after the big discussion.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Super Tacoman on August 31, 2013, 02:25:25 AM
Instead of the community banding together to propel the game forward, we are now bombarded with diatribe after diatribe and it has only reinforced to me that Aristox and I made the right decision at this point for the game. I ask now that we agree to disagree on the matter and keep some civil dialogue going that will actually improve things. You have all heard me before say that I detest the "win at all costs, drive people from the game" mentality and it is the pro-bot camp that I see this attitude displayed the most.

There are many aspects of the game that the staff is currently working on to improve, but I would love to stop having my drive to move forward on those items drained from me every time I read one of these threads. We are moving in a forward direction without botting/multiplay, I would like you all to get on board and help the Arctic community improve but I am not going to continue along this path.

i am Sure if the decision was made to allow multis everyone would just shut up and fall in line.  there would be no further diatribes it would just be one community banding together to propel the game forward.  right?  and even if there were, well that would just prove that decision was the right one all along.  makes perfect sense to me. 

its good to see solid logic coming from the leaders of the game. 

oops!  i hope i didnt drain your drive to move foward hoss!  does people disagreeing with you make you sad?  :( 
did some people play mean in your game today and disagree with you?  :(  gonna go have a nice pout?  or maybe throw a tantrum? 
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Kragg on August 31, 2013, 10:57:30 AM
its good to see solid logic coming from the leaders of the game. 

oops!  i hope i didnt drain your drive to move foward hoss!  does people disagreeing with you make you sad?  :( 
did some people play mean in your game today and disagree with you?  :(  gonna go have a nice pout?  or maybe throw a tantrum? 
[/quote]

You know, I can put up with reading lots of shit on here but that is just too much.  When I started your post, I thought that first paragraph was pretty good sarcasm.  I can't believe you are serious. 

Hoss and Aristox put way too much VOLUNTEER time into trying to find a middle road in keeping this anachronism we all like to waste time on running.  They actually care way more about your irrelevant opinions than I would in their shoes.  My opinion is that even appearing to give a crap about what you think gives you a soapbox you don't have.

Arctic is a despotic sandbox.  They are the despots, you are not.  You leave your 'freedom/rights' at the start screen.  Don't like it, don't log in.  That is the way arctic always was and works best.  Blah blah blah.

Why don't you go somewhere else where you can bot?  I would way rather see that than Hoss and Aristox wonder why they are wasting their free time on you pack of assholes.

For the record, I don't have a strong opinion on the botting with 2 char option either way.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Jorquin on August 31, 2013, 11:04:44 AM
i just see too many people posting on here who think they know whats best, when their perspective is usually very skewed from their own personal experiences, alignments, prejudices and a veiled self-serving bias.

sometimes i think there should be a change to this forum, where after you click the post button another window pop up which says, are you sure what you're writing isn't useless bullshit?


then again if that happened, i'd have a lot less to read.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Chisul on August 31, 2013, 11:39:47 AM
We seriously need a like and dislike button.

Ok, so kidding aside...I've been playing a lot more recently having come back from a lengthy real world distraction. :)

I'm actually amazed at how many of my friends and enemies still play, still war, and still flame on the forums. There is strange comfort in knowing what to expect when I log, even if it has been a few years since I played seriously.

I get that a big part of coming to a fantasy game is so you can leave the worries/stress/expectations of work, life, etc at the doorstep. I think we have all been guilty of having a rough day, logging on only to go for a killing spree to blow off some steam. But never, EVER, in my memory of the game have I seen frustration at what happens in Arctic turn so quickly and so deeply into HATE for the players involved. It's crazy!

Where is the love?
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Ezio on August 31, 2013, 12:47:12 PM
i just see too many people posting on here who think they know whats best, when their perspective is usually very skewed from their own personal experiences, alignments, prejudices and a veiled self-serving bias.

Bingo bango
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Kir on August 31, 2013, 02:06:49 PM
I have been tracking this thread and didn't really want to post on it, because it degraded quickly into the typical poo-flinging and I don't have the time nor patience to sift through 100 lbs of shit for that one small nugget of gold. I have honestly been waiting for the thread to reach Godwin's law so that I could lock it.

I am more than happy to have discussion, debate and heated argument when it is productive, this isn't one of those threads.

The thread starts with several underhanded attacks on the staff, the players and everyone "else" that doesn't have the same ideology as a single vocal group of players. Some statistics are shown, grumbling went back and forth between some players and then we try to realign under the botting ideology as the only solution to world hunger. I am not giving Sally Struthers a single penny.

We looked at many things when we opened the discussion about multiplay/botting up, knowing that it was a Pandora's box. We appreciated the feedback that was given from many of you, and came to the conclusion at the end of the day that it was not a direction that we were willing to move in. What came next was expected, and very draining on us.

Instead of the community banding together to propel the game forward, we are now bombarded with diatribe after diatribe and it has only reinforced to me that Aristox and I made the right decision at this point for the game. I ask now that we agree to disagree on the matter and keep some civil dialogue going that will actually improve things. You have all heard me before say that I detest the "win at all costs, drive people from the game" mentality and it is the pro-bot camp that I see this attitude displayed the most.

There are many aspects of the game that the staff is currently working on to improve, but I would love to stop having my drive to move forward on those items drained from me every time I read one of these threads. We are moving in a forward direction without botting/multiplay, I would like you all to get on board and help the Arctic community improve but I am not going to continue along this path.

Hunger is no laughing matter.
<img src=\"http://www.bluestemprairie.com/.a/6a00d834516a0869e2014e8ba9ec44970d-800wi\">

I agree with Reed in that It would be a joyous occasion to hear about what our esteemed Overlords have planned for us. Back in the days when the immortals were adding super fun changes to arctic like when they implemented new fun legendary stuff, and the robed mages. Those were exciting times and brought players back. Heck, people like me and reed actually made twitter accounts just to follow Aristox's every tweet. Then this wipe when they made the ranking better (cool change) but the xping horrible (awful change), several friends of mine just quit before level 12 because they didn't want to grind. I know many hardcore arctic players that simply did not play this wipe due to the grindy xp tables, and I feel like that was a change that drives players away. So I am very optimistic about what Hoss and Aristox are planning, but I am wary that without letting us know what they have in store they might open themselves up for another disaster like the xp changes and we'd be seeing 60 people on by day 4 of the wipe instead of the typical 100+. Lets be honest, all of the lower immortals are sniveling yes-men, so the forums are really the only way to get feedback on new ideas.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Keith on August 31, 2013, 05:39:09 PM
@daniel:  Of course, I am going to post on my opinions of what is good for the game; what am I going to do, post your opinions?  Everyone perspective is going to be based on his or her own experiences.  I'm sure if I always had a 10man available every time I logged, I would care less about this issue.  What you consider useless, a lot of others have complimented, both here on the forums and in game.  Why should you be judge and jury?   Why have an Arctic MUD forum if not to talk about Arctic MUD? 

The easiest thing to say is, if you don't like it: leave.  Guess what, a lot of people HAVE left.  The initial post was about things I think should be fixed to prevent more from leaving.  People focused on multiing/botting because that is the issue people are most militant about (on both sides).  While there is a single vocal group of players pushing for multiing/botting, I think you guys should keep in mind that we are also the majority (see earlier statistics, plus the previous poll) even if this isn't a democracy.  For every instance of someone not on the forums who apparently must be against botting/multiing, there are the more concrete examples of the Danes/Finns/Russians that also didn't participate who would be likely to be pro-botting.  That is all I have to say about this topic; I am going to stop talking about multiing/botting in order to not drain Hoss's old man energy too much.

I think that Tacoman's post went a little far as well.  I have discussed this with Hoss on MUD and like he said, we agree to disagree.  I also agree with Kir that the Aristox/Hoss combo (with others) have brought us great improvements with initially ranks, then legendary, and robes.  I will echo what I said initially that they believe they know what is best: I live around Missouri so you have to "Show-Me" before I will believe it.   I certainly hope they are right.  The immortals would prefer to wait until stuff is more fleshed out; I agree with Reed that the earlier we know something exciting, the better.  We are all passionate about Arctic, otherwise I would be playing COD#8 or something like that.

There are plenty of other things that I think could be improved on this game.  If multiing/botting is not on the table, what are some other issues you guys would like addressed?  No one seems on board with my decreasing overall length of zones.  :-(  There is a lot of hatred about the current pk system...
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: snax on September 02, 2013, 01:25:39 PM
i still think that the game is best enjoyed like a fine wine.  while mentally altered and over a long period of time.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Jorake on September 04, 2013, 03:56:07 PM
So I wanted to jump in on this too:) I do feel like the whole "LUBE" thing should be more open. I would love to have more info. I think what someone else said before was a good point. I think the playerbase should have input on what changes are coming. It is not for us to say "no don't do that we refuse" because you will do what you think is best regardless of what we think anyhow. It would just be nice to be included on the decision making process of whats being taken out or added. And even more! It would give those of us who quit for the wipe some insight and maybe some motivation on coming back.

All this flaming of "you are horrible for the game" get real. Stop being so damn bitchy Gramm! Either learn to get better at pk like reed or just quit bro. The only thing he's really doing that is illegal is botting. Other then that, he is just good at pk. That is the aspect of the game he enjoys and the one he plays for. You constantly want to look down at SoB clan or ANY clan that is warring your clan and winning because they are better at it than you. You and others want to say "We like to zone and be friends and lick each others lollipops." And NO ONE chastises you for liking that part of the game. No one says "hey Gramm you are a piece of shit because all you wanna do is zone endlessly and kill mobs over and over" You really gotta either accept that this is a pk mud or quit bro. And its that attitude that is RUINING the game. It isn't what everyone else is doing. It is yours and everyone else's that acts like that's attitude, someone crying when something isnt going their way every time it doesnt go their way. It is people like Nate who want to threaten to come find you in RL and kill you and other really stupid shit to say over a text screen..

So many people complain about botting. I'll use Brandon as my example. He is one person who is 100% against botting yes? But when I was in Apoc and someone gave me Hiq a legend mtn scout. We used that thing for cyan so many times. Used it for zoning whenever there wasnt a real person to use AND sometimes when the 10th real person was a bad player. Hiq came stock with dam hands dam body, an axe from raynes and whatever offie i had for him. And he dished the damage. So my point is, when it is benefiting someone or they can pretend to look the other way... then its ok. Tajs is another example. Everyone knows Tajs has botted for a LONG time. And the folks in myth knew it too. They just wanted to be 2face and pretend they didnt.

QUITCHERTBITCHING:)

Just play the bapting game or don't. If 1 aspect is just overly to much for your senses then quit. But for the sake of us all stop bitching and moaning about all the little bullshit if all you are going to do is log back on the next day just to experience the same shit you didn't like. Arctic is a pk mud. Everyone has cheated at some point and some time. The immortals are... well the immortals. Botters bot. Pkers pk. Gramm and all the other carebears bitch and moan. Just shutup and play..
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: RichE on September 04, 2013, 04:41:35 PM
Can I add that I do like that some changes are kept secret until wipe. It challenges you to think quickly etc and adds fun to the wipe.
Title: Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
Post by: Jorquin on September 04, 2013, 07:20:59 PM
although i generally don't agree with the trash tactics, you do have to give reed some credit. it was only like 4 wipes ago he was that trash randomer that would die non-stop and was laughed at by most. nowadays, i would argue more than half of the population are afraid of him.

he should be a role model for all the whiners out there. dont bitch and moan when you get pk'd, grow a pair and do something about it - you may just find you enjoy pkilling people. i know i do.