Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: btown on July 23, 2013, 07:32:47 AM

Title: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: btown on July 23, 2013, 07:32:47 AM
After being flagged a couple times we have found this new system to be very bad and boring..  takes away a lot of the fun after a pk by not being able to see whats coming or prepare..  its really lame
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Willoe on July 23, 2013, 10:02:12 AM
Noticed yesterday that once you are flagged you can not summoned unflagged people...unsure if this is as intended. IE. you try to summon pk and fail first summon then can not continue to summon afterwards...This was with summon circle have not actually attempted with regular summon spell.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Gramm on July 23, 2013, 01:39:51 PM
not only is that awesome, but thats... awesome. very good point ilya summon pk bye bye!
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: btown on July 23, 2013, 02:27:11 PM
Gramm if you voted for option #2 because you like the fact of no summon/pk you voted wrong

This has nothing to do with summon!  If you want that to be the case fine,  maybe aggressor are unable to summon people.  but we just want the who board back!
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Aristox on July 23, 2013, 03:59:58 PM
I removed the stupid option because I am honestly interested in opinions on this subject.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: DCPTY1986 on July 23, 2013, 04:09:23 PM
You should be more interested in allowing botting and removing hoss from power than this stupid who list flag board shit!
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Aristox on July 23, 2013, 06:11:59 PM
You should be more interested in allowing botting and removing hoss from power than this stupid who list flag board shit!

While I don't agree with either of your ideas, it might still come to your surprise that I can deal with more than 1 thing at a time.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: sart on July 23, 2013, 06:14:16 PM
I voted #1... I don't really care if I can see the wholist when Im flagged or not.. but I wont bot to look.  This is just another mechanism that gives people that cheat more of an advantage.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: DCPTY1986 on July 23, 2013, 06:56:26 PM
i just can't believe sanjuro is actually wasting his time making new zones that people can't even do because there isn't a strong enough groups to do them.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Hoss on July 23, 2013, 07:43:09 PM
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: corey on July 23, 2013, 08:18:45 PM
<iframe width=\"560\" height=\"315\" src=\"//www.youtube.com/embed/1eO5U_uN7DQ\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen></iframe>

bapt you for getting this stuck in my head again
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: RaVaN on July 23, 2013, 08:20:24 PM
  I might be giving Aristox @ company more credit than they are due in terms of sneakiness on this.  Working off this theory:

First, they are not stupid and fully know what the ramifications of removing the Wholist from flagged characters is. 

Secondly, Hoss has stated he believes in building a better mousetrap in terms of combating certain forms of cheating.

  Now if those two things are true, is it not possible that this is the beginning of a mousetrap to catch those that are cheating...something along the lines of when a pkevent occurs a log is made of certain actions/commands, and if those actions flag certain requirements along with suspect IP addies...punitive action can be handed out.

  Example being:  X group jumps Y group resulting in slaughter=>X group runs to hide=>Trash_Lowbie sitting at inn begins spamming who list=>Logfile created and X group gets the Angry Fist of Hoss

  That would be a very simple example, and with a bit more effort it could be expanded a bit.

  I personally think those first two assumptions are true, and if this is the beginning of such a system it's pretty genius.  As I said, I might be given more credit than is necessarily true...but it's very obvious that Aristox@company are not stupid...you might disagree with them but that just is a difference of opinion, not lack of intelligence.  The truth is that noncheaters are pretty obvious that they are not cheaters in terms of gameplay, behavior, and IPs.  Trying to prove someone is cheating is a bit more difficult...and a system like this would collect that data needing to prove certain things while allowing Aristox@company to focus on the things that actually grow the game rather than wasting that time trying to suss out those cheating bastards.

Anyhow...food for thought!
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: reed23 on July 23, 2013, 09:03:42 PM
The fact of the matter is the mud is divided into 2 categories: Carebears and Those who play for competition.  And those that play for competition are the ones that bring people to the game, can lead clans of 20, and make the mud have 60-100 active players vs. 5 - 20 players.  When people such as daniel, jack, lucas, shesh, brandon, bob, finns, danes all leave the mud, there is no one left to lead the game.

I just don't understand why aristox and hoss sit there and don't interact on the forums to make the game better and collaborate with those who bring people to the game.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, the vision of the leaders of the game is extremely important but it appears to me that the people in charge don't care, or if they do, fail to interact with those people on the forums or in the game.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Hoss on July 23, 2013, 09:18:58 PM
What are you talking about? my last post on this thread is full of spoilers about project lube.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: btown on July 23, 2013, 09:37:50 PM
and back to bacon pancakes now
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: btown on July 23, 2013, 09:44:30 PM
I think taking the who board away from say someone like me with very few people makes it very hard to defend ourselves.  plus its boring
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Gnua on July 23, 2013, 10:13:37 PM
First, they are not stupid and fully know what the ramifications of removing the Wholist from flagged characters is. 
Secondly, Hoss has stated he believes in building a better mousetrap in terms of combating certain forms of cheating.
  Now if those two things are true, is it not possible that this is the beginning of a mousetrap to catch those that are cheating...something along the lines of when a pkevent occurs a log is made of certain actions/commands, and if those actions flag certain requirements along with suspect IP addies...punitive action can be handed out.

A suspected who-bot could also be fed different/delayed information - interesting theory. Though the who bot could claim to be a casual clannie's alt.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: snax on July 24, 2013, 03:51:14 AM
You should be more interested in allowing botting and removing hoss from power than this stupid who list flag board shit!

While I don't agree with either of your ideas, it might still come to your surprise that I can deal with more than 1 thing at a time.

Yes but can you deal with random drunk assholes, whiney bitches, and buffer overflows while changing diapers and saying yes dear yet?
And if so, any chance you're willing to vouch for me during my next medication consult?
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: snax on July 24, 2013, 04:03:02 AM
this is about the stupidest post (and yes I'm actually choosing a non-word here) notion I've read in weeks... (probably years.)  People that bring people to the game are cool nice and bend over backwards at personal expense to help others.  They freely give and drag people through "high tier" zones they could easily solo at half the current 2+ man group level, knowing 90% of the time those they help will quit or lose interest.  They pause and acknowledge people have bladders and have to pee, have jobs, have kids, need to respond to craigslist NSA's whatever.

You're seriously mistaken in your assumptions.  Buff people attract alts of alts and bots.  Those who slow down the decimation are never welcome a second time.  Those...stupid...urr real people are the true source of attracting real people.  Even if the biggest zone a person learns and does an entire wipe is thorbardin, it's real people that make the game tick.  And while I read and understand your view, here's the stupid bapting truth:

Every wipe more people realize how a couple people game the system, those people are screwed out of doing a big zone (ie: silvanesti every 2-3 years IF they log enough)...and meanwhile they're fodder for lower tier zones (quali? shaydes?).

Of course, maybe I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt it.

The fact of the matter is the mud is divided into 2 categories: Carebears and Those who play for competition.  And those that play for competition are the ones that bring people to the game, can lead clans of 20, and make the mud have 60-100 active players vs. 5 - 20 players.  When people such as daniel, jack, lucas, shesh, brandon, bob, finns, danes all leave the mud, there is no one left to lead the game.

I just don't understand why aristox and hoss sit there and don't interact on the forums to make the game better and collaborate with those who bring people to the game.  Unfortunately, in my opinion, the vision of the leaders of the game is extremely important but it appears to me that the people in charge don't care, or if they do, fail to interact with those people on the forums or in the game.

The daniels lucases and sheshes... bob...whatever....they'ld kick out a 10 year veteran if they had to go afk for more than 2 minutes during a 8 hour outing on this game....[edit:  if the person who is afk doesn't have a cheat-bot script or good enough triggers to allow the group to continue decimating]
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: sart on July 24, 2013, 09:44:05 AM
Quote
When people such as daniel, jack, lucas, shesh, brandon, bob, finns, danes all leave the mud, there is no one left to lead the game.

I would hate to see so many good players go... but your statement is simply not true.  Who brought you to this game Reed.. was it one of those people?

Beyond that... It has no business on this thread.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Gnua on July 24, 2013, 09:53:24 AM

The daniels lucases and sheshes... bob...whatever....they'ld kick out a 10 year veteran if they had to go afk for more than 2 minutes during a 8 hour outing on this game....[edit:  if the person who is afk doesn't have a cheat-bot script or good enough triggers to allow the group to continue decimating]

Mavlad, Lucas, Shesh, and Bob (and many other leaders) have all been very accommodating of my need to recall and attend to real life matters with very little notice. They made the game lots of fun for me, gave me all sorts of help, tossed me lots of shinies and books, and always seemed pleased to have me in the group for as long as I could manage. Don't know about daniel but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt given the good experience I've had with the other big leaders. Heck, even Mumu is pretty decent once you realize that his insults are nothing personal (he just has no tolerance for incompetence) and hates everyone equally.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: reed23 on July 24, 2013, 10:03:51 AM
Sart, you brought me to the game, but you do not keep me in the game.  I only play if a few of my friends are playing, period.  If you do not play, it has no impact on my playing.  The mud is not going to attract new people.  The inevitable death of the mud is happening as the 80 or so people who have played this mud stop playing.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: reed23 on July 24, 2013, 10:04:50 AM
You guys can attack my post all you want, but i guarantee if Jack, Daniel, and Lucas started playing seriously again, the mud would have 3 huge clans and have 60+ people online.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: sart on July 24, 2013, 10:23:39 AM
Quote
The fact of the matter is the mud is divided into 2 categories: Carebears and Those who play for competition.  And those that play for competition are the ones that bring people to the game

My point was that this is not true... it truely is the "Carebears" (if I fall into that category), that bring people to this game.  I have introduced 16 people to this game over the years that actually played it.. and 6 still create characters and play most wipes.

I will agree that the big clans and war are what keep people here for longer per wipe.  Everyone gets bored eventually without some sort of action.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Alecto on September 03, 2013, 06:22:52 PM
I don't say it often...REED IS RIGHT

When you log and can immediately be ritual-ed into a high level zone with an 8-10 man of legend chars it does make you want to log again.

If people spent more time exploring and risking repeated deaths from exploring they could be elite leaders too, and people would flock to the game, because killing Cyan and Sleet is fun.

That said, it is also fun to finally learn where the +wis mace loads in sirrions caverns, or what in the world you do with the stone orb in enstar's bay.  There are challenges at every level if you are willing to take a risk and try a zone you've never done before.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Nary on September 03, 2013, 09:20:03 PM
True Aleco, nothing funner than wasting a day on a Bog Table that wobbles.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Jorquin on September 03, 2013, 09:39:43 PM
contrary to common belief, the whole "power playing" part of the game isn't really what i enjoy

there's nothing i like more than exploring, the reality is that most of the things i don't know now are very difficult quests that i've just not been able to crack, and it's not enjoyable to comb over the same areas you've been through 100 times looking for the 1 thing you missed to load some limit 1 item.

if anyone ever could point me in the direction of an area that i didn't know inside out, i'd be there in a heartbeat. that includes zones designed for sub level 5 characters (provided there are things to solve, rather than just xp mobs)
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Anfi on September 04, 2013, 09:59:12 AM
Personally I don't like the new 'who' flagged list since I don't know how many enemy players could log after I've got flagged. So while I could continue a failed solo pk attempt before the change, now I'd better hide, or have a non-flagged friend who provides me with who list info constantly. (Is the vote itself closed?)
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Jorquin on September 04, 2013, 10:48:20 PM
i'm not a fan of this change for one reason

anyone botting/multi'ing through a shell or proxy gets an advantage because of this
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Nary on September 04, 2013, 11:53:36 PM
Agree Daniel / bc there is no like button.
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Anfi on September 05, 2013, 12:26:05 AM
agree too
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Gramm on September 16, 2013, 11:14:53 PM
yes sart your a carebear. one i personally would avoid trifling with, but a cuddly little carebear nonetheless, and lets be honest BOTH groups are capable of drawing people into this mud absolutely. Only ONE of those two is likely to chase others back off. And I am yet to fear the carebear type hindering my arctic mud experience. I didnt always make the wisest choices personally, speaking your mind can get you into a lot of shit at times i have found out, but helping people and making friends always seems to work out better for me personally. Hell i would group pretty much anyone in this mud if it meant experiencing something beyond my normal romping grounds just because its fun to learn new shit.
 I wonder about your theory reed, if all the carebears and non pkmongering type disappeared what would be left? If people like seb, sart, myself, paul, sam, ryan, charlie, dennis(admit it you softy your a carebear), jeppe, matt, matthew,rich,elliot,apit,kendrick,ilya,nate,jonas and many others were never around i personally might never have enjoyed my second week on this game. But for years i have found friends that have gone out of their way to not only teach me, but to help me enjoy a positive experience overall that despite the randoming and other stuff that has nothing to do with MY chi or playstyle they have made it much more enjoyable to get past the other playstyles that are not my own. Without your "carebear" type arctic would not be arctic. And without randoming bandersnatches to watch out for on a similar note, it would also not be arctic. Arctic is arctic because you get a little bit of everything both good and bad. The difference between the two is that the good does not chase the bad from the game. The bad might learn to take some notes on that. Not talking to you personally reed btw on that remark im aware your not bad for this mud at all.
If your name pops up on the pklog 10+ times in the last 20 kills your probably one of the said "bad" folks though sorry to be honest and i hope that doesnt add a further target to my own head since thats pretty much a straight truth shot at the worst of the worst.
anyways assuming my rank 37 already naked barb will hopefully not get stuck sitting in an inn for no good reason im hoping to attempt to enjoy this mud a little more before she wipes. we will see though eh!!!

(sorry to go off topic with this reply btw, reeds post made me think a little about what he said and felt compelled to respond)
Title: Re: The new hidden "who" when flagged
Post by: Joe on September 17, 2013, 07:42:49 PM
I would have voted #1 if I saw this in time. Just because you're wanted / not caught doesn't mean you can't watch the News on TV.