Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => Reincarnation => Topic started by: Ericj on September 17, 2019, 10:09:17 AM

Title: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Ericj on September 17, 2019, 10:09:17 AM
First - thanks for a fun change in the game.  I like this type of change due to the nature of being able to play 1 character without finding yourself stuck with nothing to strive for.  Below are some challenges I encountered and feedback. 

- Even with 4 days of almost start-of-wipe-playtime, it was a grind but fun since first time and seeing folks playing who have not in a while.  That being said, that was WITH 2x exp weekend.  I suggest keeping 2x exp if you have reincarnate flag since experience gains are higher per reincarnate.  Still takes a lot of time and grindy to get the results you want.

- Being neutral with this system is absolutely horrid.  Maybe change way neuts can gain exp or ability to change aligns upon reincarnate.  I know robed mages, paladins,dks this does not solve for though but worth a thought.

- Experience loss for deaths at high levels is soul sucking.  Losing 11mil at 30 just makes you want to press zero, and maybe 4 password.  Curbing death loss would be nice.  The thought of doing anything that challenging that posses risk of death just is not worth it, thus not as much fun.

- The experience at lvl 30 and not getting bonus (or a penalty, unsure how it works) is difficult to swallow.  Keep it the way it was prior to 30.

- Grouping!!!! The game is about socialization and hopefully interacting with fellow nerds, and hopefully helping folks out.  The current system discourages grouping, not as much in lower levels but 25+, lvl 30....we literally had a 6man we broke up because experience was so bad.  So instead of running storms and fun things, we broke into 3man groups mindlessly slaying guards and small zones.  This was not much fun and led to too many beers having to be drank, thus causing hangover with 2 small kids.....regretting the beers and maybe the arctic time.

- Find a way we can use our well earned rank points.  In current system, the coins are too much to really use ranks.   Nobody wants to grind coins, it is one of the worst parts of the game.  This could be fixed one of two ways (just ideas).
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Ericj on September 17, 2019, 10:13:21 AM
Sorry - expanding on ideas.

1) make ranks in general 50% off MSRP.  It won't break the game and make it more fun to switch character modes.  If you want, make this for only reincarnated characters if you don't want general population to have it.

2) Give you the ability to "Swap" ranks for same or lower price weekly.  This would have to be worked in somehow with reincarnate, maybe you choose 2 ranks you like to "carry over".  I say 2, it could be 1 or 3, who knows but being able to use ranks during the grind would be nice without having to allocate 2hrs a day of coin grinding which at that point - who even plays?  Time is tough as it is to carve out to the game, I want to just don't want to have to do it to even play.

**Quick note** - if 2x experience in general is not possible (which I think should be considered) - having double experience weekends every weekend maybe?   I'm not as much of a fan of that personally as weekends as a supposedly adult with kids is no longer gaming time.  It would be nice to play this game on your schedule not on arctic's timeframe.  We all have lives we are trying to intertwine into this soul sucking addictive game :)

Again - really fun so far but already hitting the grindmode on reincarnate 2 and hope to see others thoughts and ideas.

Thanks Immortal team for the fun!
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kadaj on September 18, 2019, 08:48:45 AM
I haven't tried reincarnation yet and I probably won't be doing it this wipe. Playtime for me is super limited now and I honestly might not even get to play next wipe. But just thinking about what Reincarnation really means for the game.

Right now, Legendary characters vs the early 90's and 00's characters are just so much stronger. Legendary really opened the flood gates to what people can do on small groups or two mans. My biggest concern with reincarnation is making legendary characters.........even stronger.

Think about a pre-legend thief vs a legendary thief, pretty HUGE difference. Now imagine a 7x Reincarnated thief.
He would have +70 hp, -7 save vs spell and +14 stat points *Without spending a single rank* but then, they get a BONUS +14 rank points to spend on top of that.
Now throw in a medal that's rank 100 and you pretty much have a 600-700 hp thief, which will most likely have the Steelskin rank, be maxxed on -svs, tons of resists from the medal, blind immunity, all sorts of beneficial flags.

I know that it's a giant time sink and it's great that we have this new thing to look forward to and sure, you can opt in to doing it or not. Maybe cut the benefits in half as well as the exp needed from 1-30 so it's an option that would still be enticing but not make most content so trivial with these super powered characters.

The only problem I don't want to see is having people solo'ing/2 manning really hard stuff and inevitably stuff getting nerfed to compensate for the power of the characters.

Just my thoughts coming from someone who's played this game way too long.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: el conquistador on September 18, 2019, 09:53:02 AM

- The experience at lvl 30 and not getting bonus (or a penalty, unsure how it works) is difficult to swallow.  Keep it the way it was prior to 30.

- Grouping!!!! The game is about socialization and hopefully interacting with fellow nerds, and hopefully helping folks out.  The current system discourages grouping, not as much in lower levels but 25+, lvl 30....we literally had a 6man we broke up because experience was so bad.  So instead of running storms and fun things, we broke into 3man groups mindlessly slaying guards and small zones.  This was not much fun and led to too many beers having to be drank, thus causing hangover with 2 small kids.....regretting the beers and maybe the arctic time.


this is the biggest thing to me.  my priority next wipe will be reincarnating and in the current system that will mean avoiding groups from 30 to 1x.  why is there such a huge grouping penalty at level 30?  you can be getting 50k per kill at 29 but then ding 30 and immediately drop down to 10k for the rest from there. 

i dont think xp loss on death would be so huge if this was fixed.  grinding xp at 29 i can usually gain 11 million in under 3 hours.  at level 30 the same xp will probably take 7+ hours.  that is what makes deaths so devastating.  if you die you just lost a saturday.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Gnua on September 18, 2019, 12:32:59 PM
why is there such a huge grouping penalty at level 30?  you can be getting 50k per kill at 29 but then ding 30 and immediately drop down to 10k for the rest from there. 

before reincarnation this didnt matter at all because at level 30 you didnt care about xp, you wanted ranks/coins/spells/gear.  what if the reincarnation requirement was level 30 rather than 1x.  that way xp at level 30 still doesnt really matter except for building up your death buffer.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Attai on September 19, 2019, 02:10:27 AM
I want to start off by saying I love the idea of reincarnation.  However unless something changes I can’t see myself reincarnating more than 2 times, a Legendary character is going to be stronger than a multiple times reincarnated non-legendary character.

The decision to reincarnate is not a decision to make lightly, I feel if you play with a group of friends or are in a clan then reincarnating is a selfish non-team player decision.  As soon as you are at a useful level and strength you start over again at level 1 which hurts your friends/clans ability to do the high level zones.  Even if your character is level 30 you whats the point of fully training your skills or buying the expensive ranks you otherwise would have because you are going to lose them when you reincarnate again.  You’re not going to spend 200k on Steelskin everytime you reincarnate so whats the point of buying it until you’re done?  If you want to do most high level zones a non-reincarnated Legendary character is going to be much more powerful and much more useful than a character still doing its reincarnations.

Looking at the XP cost:
Pre-Reincarnate: 199,999,999
Reincarnate 1: 219,999,999
Reincarnate 2: 241,999,999
Reincarnate 3: 266,999,999
Reincarnate 4: 293,699,999
Reincarnate 5: 323,069,999
Reincarnate 6: 355,376,999

That is just over 1.6 Billion XP needed to reincarnate 6 times to acquire those bonuses (I’m assuming based on rough extra 10% XP needed per reincarnate).  I understand a Legendary 6x Reincarnated character is going to be an absolute beast no matter what class but given the trade-offs I don’t see how its worth it.
Reincarnations really hurt Dark Knights and Neutral alignments the most.  If I was a Dark Knight I would not give up Impunity to reincarnate again and xp’ing a Neutral even once is absolutely horrid.

Suggestions:
I agree with almost everything that Eric said
-   If you have a reincarnate flag you should be getting 2x XP all the time, you’ve proven you’re not a trash character and the grind is just too much
-   I believe certain ranks should be able to carry over (fly/hr/-ac) even if its just the lower cost ranks
-   There should be no lvl 30 XP penalty or give more of a bonus for including more in your group


As an example I am currently reincarnating a Legendary Rank 29 Neutral Warrior and a Legendary GL Rank 34 Mountain Scout, the only ranks I bought were can_fly and nocharm on the warrior and can_fly, nocharm and 5 hr on the scout, I currently have 21 unused rank points on the Scout which is now level 30 again and almost ready to reincarnate a 2nd time.  The warrior I gave up on at lvl 27 because I just couldn't keep up with the scout level wise.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Gnua on September 19, 2019, 08:13:57 AM
The only problem I don't want to see is having people solo'ing/2 manning really hard stuff and inevitably stuff getting nerfed to compensate for the power of the characters.

This from the guy who according to rumor soloes amity and mystic king almost every wipe?
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Gnua on September 19, 2019, 08:36:30 AM
I want to start off by saying I love the idea of reincarnation...
I feel if you play with a group of friends or are in a clan then reincarnating is a selfish non-team player decision...
Reincarnations really hurt Dark Knights and Neutral alignments the most...

Would any of the following address these issues?
- changing the reincarnate requirement to be level 30 rather than 1x
- keeping arctic legend rank (only) upon reincarnation
- reduced rebuy coin cost for already purchased ranks
- changing aligned xp for reincarnates to look more like 100/75/50 more than the current 100/50/0.  (neutrals would then be something like 75/100/75 rather than 50/100/50)

It seems like the majority of the concerns are around the disincentive to group.  for example, the level 30 xp penalty, dk impunity, neutral xp all seem to have this common theme.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kadaj on September 19, 2019, 09:17:30 AM
The only problem I don't want to see is having people solo'ing/2 manning really hard stuff and inevitably stuff getting nerfed to compensate for the power of the characters.

This from the guy who according to rumor soloes amity and mystic king almost every wipe?


Well.....that's the thing. When I do play, I usually have pretty good gear and really good understanding of game mechanics. So I am able to do those things. Now, what has happened in the past is the Immortal staff will notice I am doing this, change said fight to make it harder. Hey, I'm fine with that. I love a challenge. However, what the inevitably does is buff the fight to where the average group of players who *SHOULD* be able to do it (before the buff) will get their shit handed to them due to the recent changes. I don't want to see that happen, as I want everyone to experience the same content and be able to do said fights. That's where I am coming from.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Attai on September 24, 2019, 11:32:12 PM
I want to start off by saying I love the idea of reincarnation...
I feel if you play with a group of friends or are in a clan then reincarnating is a selfish non-team player decision...
Reincarnations really hurt Dark Knights and Neutral alignments the most...

Would any of the following address these issues?
- changing the reincarnate requirement to be level 30 rather than 1x
- keeping arctic legend rank (only) upon reincarnation
- reduced rebuy coin cost for already purchased ranks
- changing aligned xp for reincarnates to look more like 100/75/50 more than the current 100/50/0.  (neutrals would then be something like 75/100/75 rather than 50/100/50)

It seems like the majority of the concerns are around the disincentive to group.  for example, the level 30 xp penalty, dk impunity, neutral xp all seem to have this common theme.

Yes majority of my concerns are a disincentive to group especially on the hardest level.
Instead of reduced rebuy coin cost I think you should be given 100k every reincarnate, its hard enough to get to 1x that I don't think this can be abused and it helps offset the costs of rebuying ranks.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Gnua on September 25, 2019, 10:15:55 AM
the Immortal staff will notice I am doing this, change said fight to make it harder. Hey, I'm fine with that. I love a challenge. However, what the inevitably does is buff the fight to where the average group of players who *SHOULD* be able to do it (before the buff) will get their shit handed to them due to the recent changes.

When something is too hard for Dan to solo, it is too hard for Myth's 8 best....
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kadaj on September 25, 2019, 12:04:29 PM
"When something is too hard for Dan to solo, it is too hard for Myth's 8 best...."


You know, I never mentioned MYTH in my post. But I WOULD have liked to see MYTH's best 8 man try and do the Mystic King fight before it got 'revamped back to manageable'. Unless your tank was rocking Cyan Suit, Kraken Shell and a few other items, there's no way they were going to survive 2 rounds of that fight. So no, I am not saying that if I can't solo it, MYTH can't with their 8 best. I'm well aware that MYTH isn't the same as it was years ago. Knowledge freely flowing, people going out and actually exploring and doing zones is great and I'm glad more people are taking the initiative.

Just don't take it as a personal insult when there was none. You didn't see how the fight was changed and now you can!  If you can get there :)
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Gnua on September 26, 2019, 10:54:10 AM
"When something is too hard for Dan to solo, it is too hard for Myth's 8 best...."

Just don't take it as a personal insult when there was none.

No insult was ever taken, it's historical pattern that in order to prevent you from soloing something, it has to be too hard for the 8 best myth.  that may change next wipe and that will be a big step for the growing clans.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: el conquistador on September 26, 2019, 11:43:06 AM
it would be a really hard game to balance.  you don't want it to be too easy for these freaks of nature like kadaj but you don't want zones to be exclusively for 1 clan either.  the skill/knowledge ceiling is so high in this game it makes an enormous gap between a normal player and the best.

I get pretty frustrated sometimes but I think overall the immortals have done a really good job over the years of keeping the game interesting for everyone.  they probably suspect that someone is going to hit max reincarnates in 3 weeks and do some really game breaking stuff with it but they are still trying to do it for us anyway.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kadaj on September 26, 2019, 12:19:28 PM
I agree it's tough to balance around all aspects of the game. Who has what gear, class combo, time available to invest in a zone. The game is still going all these years and we the players that constantly come back wipe after wipe and the immortals who keep things spicy.

I enjoy putting input and reading these forums. I know I won't be playing next wipe but I still want the best for the game! So I'll throw ideas as much as I can.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Malthros on September 28, 2019, 03:08:38 PM
it would be a really hard game to balance.  you don't want it to be too easy for these freaks of nature like kadaj but you don't want zones to be exclusively for 1 clan either.  the skill/knowledge ceiling is so high in this game it makes an enormous gap between a normal player and the best.

I get pretty frustrated sometimes but I think overall the immortals have done a really good job over the years of keeping the game interesting for everyone.  they probably suspect that someone is going to hit max reincarnates in 3 weeks and do some really game breaking stuff with it but they are still trying to do it for us anyway.

I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee.  How many decades have people like them played?  How many tens of thousands of hours have they spent on the game?  Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.  It's fine to make some tweaks here and there, or fix obvious bugs, but


People who focus on reincarnation are definitely going to hit max reincarnation within a few weeks of the wipe starting.  Even doing it 3x with legend alts to help power level me burned me out hard though so if anyone can power through 6x reincarnations out the gate and keep going strong then good for them.  They deserve that edge and I don't doubt for a second that reincarnation's boost is going to help enable some clans to clear fights they might not have otherwise, or at least clear some fights 'sooner' than they would have.  Especially once those characters hit legendary.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: oom on September 30, 2019, 05:59:47 PM
"When something is too hard for Dan to solo, it is too hard for Myth's 8 best...."

Just don't take it as a personal insult when there was none.

No insult was ever taken, it's historical pattern that in order to prevent you from soloing something, it has to be too hard for the 8 best myth.  that may change next wipe and that will be a big step for the growing clans.

I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kadaj on October 01, 2019, 07:31:19 AM
"When something is too hard for Dan to solo, it is too hard for Myth's 8 best...."

Just don't take it as a personal insult when there was none.

No insult was ever taken, it's historical pattern that in order to prevent you from soloing something, it has to be too hard for the 8 best myth.  that may change next wipe and that will be a big step for the growing clans.

I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.

That's one thing, when I played it was during the day when no one was on. So I had all the time in the world to sit there and think of ways to do these fights. I know if I had a bunch of people sitting there getting antsy and bored then there's no way I would be able to do that. It's just such a great game and I think if people are willing to spend the time/effort to do certain fights then that's great. I can't even remember the last time I was in a full 8 man group......let alone an 8 man of all real people
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Gnua on October 01, 2019, 05:03:13 PM
I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee... Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.

So when a paladin hits rank 44, reincarnates 6 times, and buys damage shield + steelskin + legend lay, rally, ri... the rank costs should NOT inflate to prevent this?
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Gnua on October 01, 2019, 05:22:08 PM
I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.

pretty sure that if someone opened the mystic vault, the fight would destroy myth's 8 best.  you gotta wonder about a king who can slaughter almost anyone who manages to get into his safe room but does not bring his wife with him.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kadaj on October 02, 2019, 05:26:31 AM
I mean....to be fair, he IS dead....
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Malthros on October 02, 2019, 07:36:23 PM
I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee... Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.

So when a paladin hits rank 44, reincarnates 6 times, and buys damage shield + steelskin + legend lay, rally, ri... the rank costs should NOT inflate to prevent this?

No I'm perfectly ok with someone who spent dozens (likely hundreds) of hours getting to that point.  Let them have that extra power.  It alone won't let them clear Cyan or Mithas or whatever else but it'll help and that's the point otherwise why spend the time getting there?

If everything's going to be boosted to offset reincarnation then it's just adding a new layer of grind and I'd rather see Reincarnation turned in to a one and done if that's the case.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: el conquistador on October 02, 2019, 08:49:16 PM

I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee.  How many decades have people like them played?  How many tens of thousands of hours have they spent on the game?  Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.


that is a very good point
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: reed23 on October 03, 2019, 03:08:25 PM
My advice to immortals would be to act quick on these suggestions.  Reincarnation even sparked my interest to play a few nights last week.  However, there are some serious flaws in the initial design that should be sorted out immediately to capitalize on peoples' interest. 

Alignment change should be an option at reincarnation, subject to race constraints.  My two main characters from this wipe were evil and goodie.  That immediately put a halt to my reincarnation hopes.  And no way in bapting hell i'm going through the align change process - not happening.

Revamp how XP in groups are calculated.  I'd go as far as saying that XP should be the exact same for a person solo'ing a mob all the way to a 6 man.  Yes, a 6 man gets the same XP as a solo'er.  Arctic is dead af, and if someone knew they would XP 100x faster if they called two buddies and get them on the mud, then that is a great thing for the mud.  Anything that gives incentive for people to not form groups should be revamped.

Remove the lvl 30 XP penalty.  Makes zero sense and is completely useless.

Remove the XP penalty as you progress through reincarnation.  It takes enough grind as is.  What's the point, more grind?

Reduce cost of ranks.  Steelskin 25k, other ranks 1-5k, legend ranks 10k, legendary 25k.  Even that is going to put a big strain on purchasing ranks after each reincarnation.  Why would you want people not purchasing ranks throughout the reincarnation process which is likely to last up to a couple of months?  You rank and reincarnate to have more rank points to spend, but then it doesn't make sense to actually purchase the ranks?  That seems dumb.  Not to mention, once someone fully reincarnates, they probably will lose interest in the game.  So in the end, they could have gone from lvl 1 to fully reincarnated with minimal ranks purchased.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Akthunder on October 04, 2019, 07:51:10 AM
I completely agree with what reed said. I second and third that motion.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Quid on October 14, 2019, 01:35:06 AM
I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.

pretty sure that if someone opened the mystic vault, the fight would destroy myth's 8 best.  you gotta wonder about a king who can slaughter almost anyone who manages to get into his safe room but does not bring his wife with him.

I like to think that she's the one who locked him there.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kam on October 16, 2019, 09:30:15 AM
pretty sure that if someone opened the mystic vault, the fight would destroy myth's 8 best.  you gotta wonder about a king who can slaughter almost anyone who manages to get into his safe room but does not bring his wife with him.

I like to think that she's the one who locked him there.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: gulca on October 20, 2019, 11:42:35 PM
Take a step back.

Who has time to grind through hours of play time for a game?

Anything that adds grind should be reconsidered.

Just pretend for a minute, if you were to sell arctic as an app.

The level 1 to level 30 progress should just be tutorial. A thing that you finish in maybe 3 sets of 5 min sessions.

All the zones would be align to start at level 30.

Concepts like grinding with zero or negative consequences should not be allowed. Everything you do will inch you closer to being better. Empty book loads, equipment decays and dts out.

Daily quest and login bonus should be implemented.  You can train offline with cap, so you have to login to reset the cap. Consecutive daily login for more bonus.

Anything that gets players to come back for a quick 10 to 30 min sessions a day would be ideal. The aim here is to get everyone to log on once every day for the rest of the year.

That means there should not be a barrier between any active players with respect to zoning. Anyone and everyone should benefit from zoning together.  This allows new players to get into action immediately. 

OK since this will never be an app, I just want to remind the imm's grinding isn't the best way to increase the value of a game mechanic. The more you emphasize on spending active in game time for new content , the less likely non active or new players are going to login and try.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Kam on October 21, 2019, 03:41:09 PM
Ok. Just take a step back.


No.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: sam on October 22, 2019, 12:07:28 AM
Take a step back.

Who has time to grind through hours of play time for a game?

Anything that adds grind should be reconsidered.

Just pretend for a minute, if you were to sell arctic as an app.

The level 1 to level 30 progress should just be tutorial. A thing that you finish in maybe 3 sets of 5 min sessions.

All the zones would be align to start at level 30.

Concepts like grinding with zero or negative consequences should not be allowed. Everything you do will inch you closer to being better. Empty book loads, equipment decays and dts out.

Daily quest and login bonus should be implemented.  You can train offline with cap, so you have to login to reset the cap. Consecutive daily login for more bonus.

Anything that gets players to come back for a quick 10 to 30 min sessions a day would be ideal. The aim here is to get everyone to log on once every day for the rest of the year.

That means there should not be a barrier between any active players with respect to zoning. Anyone and everyone should benefit from zoning together.  This allows new players to get into action immediately. 

OK since this will never be an app, I just want to remind the imm's grinding isn't the best way to increase the value of a game mechanic. The more you emphasize on spending active in game time for new content , the less likely non active or new players are going to login and try.

Your suggestions can help to drive traffic into the game, however during this time and age where people expect knowledge to be shared, too many good games with good graphics it's an uphill battle.  Just look at how many games that don't have guides, walkthroughs or youtube videos (hint: not many). 

Not to discredit the overlords and administrators, because I think you guys deserve much appreciation to keep the game running, my humble feedback, based on what I read on these forums, is that it seems there is no set direction that the game is going towards.  Do you want to drive traffic to the game? Do you want to keep the original concept of the game even if it is outdated? Do you want to make it a sandbox for the eleet of 20-30 to continue playing but forget about the others?

I do know of successful games that thrive on player grinds, but they have a clear strategy and direction which they continuously share to players, as well as adapting and changing based on feedbacks which they deem are useful. I could be wrong, but I believe there can be an improvement in this area for this game as well.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: el conquistador on October 24, 2019, 04:01:06 AM
after some testing after the level 30 xp changes, with no deaths i believe i can reach 1x in about 45 hours of playtime.

if reincarnates are 10% more xp per then by my calculations -
45+50+55+60+66+73 = 349 hours

and then ill be ready to play the game for real!

that is defintely a scary grind and i can understand why some have mixed feelings about it.  i kind of doubt i will make it to the 6th reincarnation, but im actually really looking forward to trying it. 

Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: fran on October 24, 2019, 03:56:42 PM
I would love to see the return of character rot on death.  Then you would never need a player wipe.  Keep reincarnation, but bring back the rot!

 tl;dr quit whining and just play.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Malthros on October 29, 2019, 10:25:01 PM
after some testing after the level 30 xp changes, with no deaths i believe i can reach 1x in about 45 hours of playtime.

if reincarnates are 10% more xp per then by my calculations -
45+50+55+60+66+73 = 349 hours

and then ill be ready to play the game for real!

that is defintely a scary grind and i can understand why some have mixed feelings about it.  i kind of doubt i will make it to the 6th reincarnation, but im actually really looking forward to trying it.

If you reincarnate 6x your 6th reincarnation would take ~80 hours.  That 73hr figure is your 5th reincarnation because 45hrs is your starting 0 reincarnation time to lvl 30, right?  So you'd actually take around 429 hours until you can play for real, or maybe 400 hours since by then you'd likely be at lvl 24+ and able to group for zoning.  Though that's also a higher risk of dying so yeah, lets go with 429 hours to hit lvl 30 on a 6x reincarnated character assuming you level at that speed.  In reality you're probably going to get unlucky or baptup and die a few times at least.  Or find your xp zone(s) or choice are already being run or were cleared and not repopped yet...etc.


In that time you could 100% multiple RPGs or start a new character in FFXIV and play through the entirety of the current content except on-level savage (and ultimate) raids.  And honestly you'd probably clear most of the on-level savage raid content too if you can find a good static to let you run with them even as a sub.
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: el conquistador on November 01, 2019, 08:15:15 AM

If you reincarnate 6x your 6th reincarnation would take ~80 hours.  That 73hr figure is your 5th reincarnation because 45hrs is your starting 0 reincarnation time to lvl 30, right?  So you'd actually take around 429 hours until you can play for real, or maybe 400 hours since by then you'd likely be at lvl 24+ and able to group for zoning.  Though that's also a higher risk of dying so yeah, lets go with 429 hours to hit lvl 30 on a 6x reincarnated character assuming you level at that speed.  In reality you're probably going to get unlucky or baptup and die a few times at least.  Or find your xp zone(s) or choice are already being run or were cleared and not repopped yet...etc.


yeah my calculations are probably optimistic.  :P
i would have to level up one more time as you said to do high level zones after the last reincarnate.  and early in the wipe certainly there will be a lot of time wasted walking around trying to find an xp zone that isnt being done already.  it will be a true test of fortitude!
Title: Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
Post by: Alecto on November 01, 2019, 07:07:38 PM
After the first reincarnation it is actually faster to level, since you are geared and have ranks (and probably medal ranks) to expedite the process. I got a dk from rolling to 1x in about 28 hours on the first run and just over 24 on the 2nd. After that it slows down, tho.