Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kir on May 23, 2017, 02:37:29 PM

Title: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kir on May 23, 2017, 02:37:29 PM
I know Kam had spoken about fixing them but havent seen anything recent on this, hoping something new for the class instead of being refresh sluts
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on May 25, 2017, 12:03:14 PM
Seriously, what is it with you guys and druids!

Reed has 15 posts mentioning druids, you have 10.

Let's go people, make druids great again! 

Search--->  druid --->user: kir, reed23

Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: reed23 on May 25, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Haha its a no-brainer, easy change to bring a class back to life.  We are men of the people.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Alecto on May 26, 2017, 09:04:11 PM
It's ok, Samasaki has brought druids back on his own this wipe (and every previous wipe) with a simple rally cry:

"I'm a druid.  I cast spells."
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Rinad on May 29, 2017, 09:39:38 AM
From Jorquin's other post :  lightning storm will probably get a minor damage boost.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kronos on May 30, 2017, 08:20:26 PM
It really is sad what has happened to druids. They used to be one of the more fun and dynamic classes to play. When healing cloud went from 2x to 1 time, their slot in groups was all but eliminated by top tier clans. They are useless now. On top of that primal fury was nerfed/is broken, lightening storm blows and entangle was nerfed.

Something should be done and I hope it is. When cloud went from 2x to 1x the talk was about them being overpowered in respect to healing...but a legend Shaman can heal the entire group for 200+ hps per round, that is significantly higher than cloud ever was. This doesn't make sense to me.

Please bring these chars back so that those of us who love to play druids are not used for lev 1-15 and then tossed aside.

-Jon
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Oligo on May 30, 2017, 10:20:22 PM
lightening storm blows and entangle was nerfed.

Triggered an old memory of like 15-20 yrs ago, when lightning storm druids won those 15v15+ pks.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on May 31, 2017, 07:14:23 AM
Stoneskin is still quite reliable on 95% of the fights in the game. Mass Refresh is still great, along with winds. I think Primal Fury was a bit overtuned to begin with, I agree it should still be a good group buff but not something you can just trigger to cast and use it every time it runs out. There has to be some thought process behind using it. Lightning storm got hit pretty hard, the damage should definitely be upped but have a high chance to frag. Call lightning should be able to be cast indoors and flame shroud/elemental fists frag reduced. Heal cloud should still only hit one person a round, there's no way around it. It is just far too strong when it hits multiple people, I think that's the biggest complaint is people think it should hit more often than it should which causes them to just be a botted character. Cloud blinks out? Might as well cloud again because I don't need to make any decisions when I play this game, I just make sure this stuff is up 100% of the time and we win.   Druids are still very useful and I wouldn't mind playing one, I think you guys just got used to how strong and overtuned they were and now assume that was the norm. You have to remember that was during the Hoss era where a lot of the decisions weren't really thought out.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: reed23 on May 31, 2017, 08:13:11 AM
Kadaj,

Your post is the glass half full on druids.  Thanks.  Questions for you:

8 man groups - why would you rather have a druid in the group vs a healer/shaman?  Druids can't heal.  Their best defensive spell (stoneskin) is ignored by most top mobs in the game.  And they can't do damage.  So what exactly do they do?

Shamans heal, do damage, and have spirits.  Clerics heal, do damage, and have corpses.  Druids don't heal, don't do damage, and have water weirds.

Please open my eyes as to why a druid would ever be considered other than to cast refresh levels 1 - 20!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on May 31, 2017, 08:29:30 AM
Hello Reed,

The main purpose of druids is support. The ability to evacuate the entire group out of a dangerous situation with winds. The ability to speed the zoning process up with winds.  They are there to help with some heals (single healing clouds) as well as do ok damage with direct frags and area. They also support the group with resists, primal fury, waggs, veil of ice. Again, I think you are missing the point. People played druids before healing cloud was out, when it was implemented and turned into basically an anti-death group buff when you had two druids in the group, what was the point of bringing a cleric? What I'm trying to get at is they are a support class that helps in different ways than just 'you suck at helping us kill this mob' They aren't for the min/maxing crowd but they are far from useless. Just like you said, why bother bringing them when you can just replace them with a shaman or cleric? Perhaps shamans need a little nerf, along with corpses to make druids look more appealing.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: reed23 on May 31, 2017, 09:16:47 AM
Good points.  I agree with you on all you said.  The problem is druids/clerics/shamans were on a similar level years ago.  Then clerics/shamans got a lot of love.  Druids are still where they were years ago.

If druids are going to be the utility/support class that you mentioned, I think those areas need to get a buff.  In my 16 posts about druids, I've said for some time to make veil of ice one of the prime-time area blockers.  It currently lasts for 2 rounds and is an 8th slot.  Like who in the hell dreamed that one up??? lol.  Winds is helpful yes.  Their frags are all horrible other than granite hands, so like a lot of people have been saying, remove outside restrictions on their spells.  Primal fury needs to get a buff to return it to useful.

So yeah, if they are going to be this support class, their support spells need to get some love!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on May 31, 2017, 09:46:20 AM
NERF EVERYTHING TO THE GROUND!! In all honesty, I have no intention of playing this game again. I'm having quite a bit of fun on Project1999. I do want everyone to have fun on this game and have their classes they love to be strong and useful. I think nerfing the pets of both shamans and clerics as well as buffing some druid frags and maybe making ice storm channeled as well as you said, veil of ice a group wide buff that actually lasts a good amount of time and has a % chance to block area would be nice.  The staff is always busy trying to make things better so just give it some time, I have faith they will make it right.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Jorake on May 31, 2017, 03:09:16 PM
Cloud was way to powerful when it hit twice per round. I have no idea what the person saying shamans can heal the whole group for 200 a round. Where do i pop that spell?

Graham solo healed with his legend druid quite a bit. Mostly mid to highish tier zones like storms, tot, irda trio even. They are still good.
I do agree they need a buff in spell damage. Legend druids can cast call lightning inside with storm cloud rank thing.

Over all they are a good class still!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Bryton on May 31, 2017, 10:08:07 PM
I realize Druids were nerfed to shit because I dominated with them for so long, but let us put the past behind us.

Druid area- 
lightning storm got a buff. The damage buff was super weak (40 dam), and doesn't even have a spec. Also with it being 8th slot it will never be memed over stoneskin and healing cloud.
Legend entangle-  was nerfed to be completely worthless and doesn't work in most zone rooms.
Ice storm- lame damage like 10-15 dam.
Swarm- super lame for pk and zoning.
Cultivate- this one really bugs me because it's complete shit.
Healing cloud- this needs some type of spec to make Druids worth a shit.
Primal fury- lame before and after legend.
Tornado- is the the best Druid area damage by far. It's just sad that it's the same slot as call lightning.

Druid single target damage
Cone, firestorm, and flameshroud- do similiar damage as THORN SPRAY....... They also frag the shit out of eq which is annoying.
Call of lightning- is fine
Granite Hand- is great, wish it would be more consistent but I  like the chance for high damage so it's fine where  it's at.

Other Druid spells-

Stoneskin- I agree with above comments of it beingg lame for mobs to ignore stoneskin. Also chance to land petrify should be taken away. It attempts to petrify way to often even with  save mod ranks.
Temp Path- is so worthless, always fails. Always gives wrong directions.
Conjure elemental- such a lame charmie and I hate how it's been nerfed over the years. None of them have skills or spells worthwhile anymore.
Paralysis- it's fine but just inconsistent on the number of rounds it lasts.
Summon fairy- I know this spell is cool but I hate how it doesn't follow you when you flee.

Druid equipment
Druid eq is complete shit, most if not all of it goes to shamans or clerics. .

Druid spell slots-
7th and 8th I hate that these two slots are so packed with spells. Maybe the problem is more the Druid +slot eq going to clerics and shamans.


 They can't solo because they do no damage until they get call lightning or granite hand, you honestly cast thorn spray until level 27. You can't get into any group doing a high level zone because theres always a shaman or cleric that are more useful.

Now that I think about it I did solo kill a 6 man group of core this wipe. bapt it, leave Druids alone they must be to powerful.......... or core is just bapting retarded.....
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Gnua on June 01, 2017, 07:19:19 AM
Cloud was way to powerful when it hit twice per round. I have no idea what the person saying shamans can heal the whole group for 200 a round. Where do i pop that spell?

Think Reed was talking about Healing Wave when all group members are boosted.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on June 01, 2017, 07:37:48 AM
What druid thread wouldn't be complete without a good shitpost by the PK god himself, Bryton.  I agree that druids need some kind of buff, I mean I killed your legend druid this wipe with a lvl 30 white robe. Slumber OP. Some of your points were...half thought out. But just saying stuff like 'super lame for pk and zoning' and 'this one really bugs me because it's complete shit'   How is the staff going to look at this data and construct a new plan for improvement? 

Lightning storm should get a damage buff or a spec to perhaps paralyze for a round or 2, a very low chance but still fits the theme of lightning damage in most games.

Entangle "No restrictions on location of use." is what Legend entangle states. It also states that it is a thorny vine, I would like to see something similar to malevolent tentacles for this spell, a channeled damage spell that has a chance to restrict movement from the room. There's no resistance to gear toward this though, unlike tent and NPP.

Ice Storm This spell really does blow right now and I've said in the past it needs some love. The damage is either 10-20 damage or 40-50, very rarely on the latter. What would be cool is have it be a channeled spell again with a little increased damage. Having the spell tick for 40-70 damage per round would be a pretty awesome change. It doesn't necessarily need a spec but a cool spec it COULD have would be something similar to suspension field, reduces the haste in the room since you know, it's a bapting ice storm.

Insect Swarm This spell IS good when it actually hits but is negated by any damage shield (lightning/fire/ect) and stuff like acid mist and gust/tornado/constant winds. There could perhaps be a legend rank that allows it to remain in the room even with these factors. Something that allows it to stick around and actual deal dmg and not be dispelled by a lvl 7 mage guild spell.

Cultivate  If this spell landed more often and hit the group for the same amount of healing, that could add a cool aspect to druids. However it does fail quite a bit, the damage isn't super great and it's not a 'reliable' heal. It's not on demand healing, you have to plan ahead for it to actually work. I would like to see this spell have a 100% land chance and the heal be a little better, but right now on a 29 legend druid it heals for about 180. Still not bad for a group heal.

Healing Cloud  Probably why you think you are a good druid. The spell is retard proof. You don't need to spam the group list, you simply cast it and forget it. I don't believe it should hit twice every round but maybe if there was a way to have +healing done gear increase the chance of double clouds would be neat, a way to gear towards it. As far as needing a spec, I don't agree, you aren't primarily a healer like a cleric. You are there to support and give some off heals. Perhaps have it 'rain' for an additional heal or a remove poison or something if you feel a spec is necessary.

Primal Fury Although I'm not familiar with this too much, from what I understand it's still a group buff and still increases everyone's damage while removing the negative affects. I don't really think this should be a group buff, it just turns the druid into a primal fury bot with no thought process again. It's a retard proof spell. Maybe if it was a damage buff to a single person with a little better benefits or a damage reduction to the tank you could cast, that would be neat.

Tornado This spell is in a good spot I think. It has the ability to deal really nice damage, although it is random. I believe it still has the ability to be boosted with gust of wind or constant winds. I wouldn't touch that one, perhaps just allowing it to be cast indoors and not underwater would work, add a little more variety to zoning.


Druid Single Target Spells
Flame Shroud, Cone of Cold and Fire storm DO have similar damage to thorn spray. The average thorn spray is around 50 damage while the average flame shroud is 60. I would like to see the damage upped a little on Cone/Flame shroud and have the frag reduced a lot. I understand you are covering your target in FIRE but perhaps having Cone of Colds damage a little more consistent would replace the need to mem all flame shrouds. 

Call Lightning  The damage is only slightly higher than Flame Shroud and Fire storm. Averaging around 80. I would like to see maybe a daze/confusion or paralyze spec added to this. All specs added should be a fairly low chance of succeeding, but something to spice up the spell a little bit. The ability to cast it anywhere with Legendary Storm Cloud is a nice touch, even more so if specs are added.

Granite Hand This spell rocks. GET IT!   But I like the idea of having the potential for really good damage as well as really mediocre damage. Seeing all 4 hits on a target just FEELS like it's doing a ton of damage. I would maybe like to see this spell moved to 5th circle so you have to choose between ice storm area and direct damage granite hands. Maybe add a bash spec similar to force missile? I mean it's a giant bapting rock hand smashing into you.

Other Druid Spells

Stone Skin Only a very select few(I can think of only two) mobs should have the ability to penetrate stone skin. IF a mob has the ability to penetrate stone skin, the damage on those hits should be significantly reduced. There's no reason to have to switch up a druids mem mid zone just because 'this is imm to stone skin, let me swap out all my stones for something else' I think of a Dark Blessing type dmg reduction if the mob can hit through it. Also remove the petrify, it's 2017 people. That shit is old!

Temporal Path "In  most cases, the caster should not be far from the intended victim." If you can get close enough to cast this spell, you probably have a good idea where they are and don't generally need to cast it. It's a flavor spell and always has been. Sometimes it works great and sometimes it leads you to Solace. I don't think anyone is going to spend the time and energy to fix this spell.

Conjure Elemental Ahh, the classic conjure elemental. It's pretty shit. What COULD be cool is the higher level you get, the better the charmies were. I'm talking instead of the water nymph and bapting fire snake or shit pechs Randy, shit pechs, you got the elementals you typically would see from using a conjure stone. No druid is going to go out and farm those stones just to have a pet die in a zone to some area. I don't think druids need pets that can be ranked up like mages, but perhaps just having the ability to summon GOOD enough charmies that hit ok with weapons and have some minor skills would be a great addition.

Paralysis Although I don't agree with the inconsistent part (it will last 5 or 6 rounds, no more no less) it's still a great spell to mem. It tends to land quite a bit and with double spell power ranks I would imagine it's quite powerful, even for some zoning.

Summon Faerie  You are summoning a god damn faerie, unless you put it in a bottle it'll probably fly away.

Druid Equipment

"druid eq is complete shit"  This is....somewhat true. I think the real issue with druid equipment is either A. It shares the same class restrictions as clerics and shamans so they tend to take it over a druid or B. There's not a whole lot of 'druid specific' gear. There are a few niche items that have low maxes so if those are gone you are just kind of stuck with what you can get. Druids don't necessarily NEED good gear but a powerfully equipped druid sure is awesome to have around.

Druid Spell Slots
Finally, I can agree. 7th and 8th slots are jam packed with spells. What would be pretty nice and I think needed is introducing a 9th circle for druids. They have just as many spells as mages and one less circle to work with. Spreading out some of the spells will help ease the woes of not having + slot gear.


Druids can solo just fine, they aren't as fast as other classes but they still have the ability to. It certainly is a lot easier to group and level. As far as not being taken into groups, perhaps with a few of these changes to spells, slots and gear we could see a little more love from druids.

These are just my thoughts on the problems posted above. You may not agree with them but at least give the immortals something to work with.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: oom on June 01, 2017, 09:31:54 AM
Cloud was way to powerful when it hit twice per round. I have no idea what the person saying shamans can heal the whole group for 200 a round. Where do i pop that spell?

Think Reed was talking about Healing Wave when all group members are boosted.

My healing waves were doing MAYBE 140hp per round with everyone boosted and wearing a ton of +% healing done eq. Reed rounded that up to 150hp and JPimpin rounded that up again to 200.

I haven't played a druid but from the outside looking in I would say it seemed to me the biggest problem I saw with druids is they had some useful spells but they never seemed to be able to mem enough of them in combination. Maybe lowering some of the top end spells a level could help?

I'm sorry I greeded the shadow orb from you Bryton, the RISE spirit took hold of me a bit I gues... Think of all those slots...

Just stop all this stupid talk about nerfing shamans OK Kadaj!!!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on June 01, 2017, 09:50:27 AM
Well you can't advocate the buffing of an under performing class and not the nerfing of an OP one!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kir on June 01, 2017, 04:07:07 PM
Not that I want to get involved in this argument about healing but as people have pointed out: if healing wave heals each person for 140 per round... 140x8= 1120 each round in total healing... compared to 240-300 from a healing cloud which is a single target.

1120 vs 300... and  healing cloud is OP? this is why nobody plays this game anymore, because everybody who has made decisions for the last 15 years has been a complete retard. I am hoping this new administration is going to be better, but basic math skills in tough to ask in 2017, so we'll have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Gramm on June 01, 2017, 05:45:46 PM
I was only able to solo heal mid level zones once i hit legend i might add. until then you only wagg and para basically
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Bryton on June 01, 2017, 07:11:47 PM
What druid thread wouldn't be complete without a good shitpost by the PK god himself, Bryton.  I agree that druids need some kind of buff, I mean I killed your legend druid this wipe with a lvl 30 white robe. Slumber OP. Some of your points were...half thought out. But just saying stuff like 'super lame for pk and zoning' and 'this one really bugs me because it's complete shit'   How is the staff going to look at this data and construct a new plan for improvement? 

Lightning storm should get a damage buff or a spec to perhaps paralyze for a round or 2, a very low chance but still fits the theme of lightning damage in most games.

Entangle "No restrictions on location of use." is what Legend entangle states. It also states that it is a thorny vine, I would like to see something similar to malevolent tentacles for this spell, a channeled damage spell that has a chance to restrict movement from the room. There's no resistance to gear toward this though, unlike tent and NPP.

Ice Storm This spell really does blow right now and I've said in the past it needs some love. The damage is either 10-20 damage or 40-50, very rarely on the latter. What would be cool is have it be a channeled spell again with a little increased damage. Having the spell tick for 40-70 damage per round would be a pretty awesome change. It doesn't necessarily need a spec but a cool spec it COULD have would be something similar to suspension field, reduces the haste in the room since you know, it's a bapting ice storm.

Insect Swarm This spell IS good when it actually hits but is negated by any damage shield (lightning/fire/ect) and stuff like acid mist and gust/tornado/constant winds. There could perhaps be a legend rank that allows it to remain in the room even with these factors. Something that allows it to stick around and actual deal dmg and not be dispelled by a lvl 7 mage guild spell.

Cultivate  If this spell landed more often and hit the group for the same amount of healing, that could add a cool aspect to druids. However it does fail quite a bit, the damage isn't super great and it's not a 'reliable' heal. It's not on demand healing, you have to plan ahead for it to actually work. I would like to see this spell have a 100% land chance and the heal be a little better, but right now on a 29 legend druid it heals for about 180. Still not bad for a group heal.

Healing Cloud  Probably why you think you are a good druid. The spell is retard proof. You don't need to spam the group list, you simply cast it and forget it. I don't believe it should hit twice every round but maybe if there was a way to have +healing done gear increase the chance of double clouds would be neat, a way to gear towards it. As far as needing a spec, I don't agree, you aren't primarily a healer like a cleric. You are there to support and give some off heals. Perhaps have it 'rain' for an additional heal or a remove poison or something if you feel a spec is necessary.

Primal Fury Although I'm not familiar with this too much, from what I understand it's still a group buff and still increases everyone's damage while removing the negative affects. I don't really think this should be a group buff, it just turns the druid into a primal fury bot with no thought process again. It's a retard proof spell. Maybe if it was a damage buff to a single person with a little better benefits or a damage reduction to the tank you could cast, that would be neat.

Tornado This spell is in a good spot I think. It has the ability to deal really nice damage, although it is random. I believe it still has the ability to be boosted with gust of wind or constant winds. I wouldn't touch that one, perhaps just allowing it to be cast indoors and not underwater would work, add a little more variety to zoning.


Druid Single Target Spells
Flame Shroud, Cone of Cold and Fire storm DO have similar damage to thorn spray. The average thorn spray is around 50 damage while the average flame shroud is 60. I would like to see the damage upped a little on Cone/Flame shroud and have the frag reduced a lot. I understand you are covering your target in FIRE but perhaps having Cone of Colds damage a little more consistent would replace the need to mem all flame shrouds. 

Call Lightning  The damage is only slightly higher than Flame Shroud and Fire storm. Averaging around 80. I would like to see maybe a daze/confusion or paralyze spec added to this. All specs added should be a fairly low chance of succeeding, but something to spice up the spell a little bit. The ability to cast it anywhere with Legendary Storm Cloud is a nice touch, even more so if specs are added.

Granite Hand This spell rocks. GET IT!   But I like the idea of having the potential for really good damage as well as really mediocre damage. Seeing all 4 hits on a target just FEELS like it's doing a ton of damage. I would maybe like to see this spell moved to 5th circle so you have to choose between ice storm area and direct damage granite hands. Maybe add a bash spec similar to force missile? I mean it's a giant bapting rock hand smashing into you.

Other Druid Spells

Stone Skin Only a very select few(I can think of only two) mobs should have the ability to penetrate stone skin. IF a mob has the ability to penetrate stone skin, the damage on those hits should be significantly reduced. There's no reason to have to switch up a druids mem mid zone just because 'this is imm to stone skin, let me swap out all my stones for something else' I think of a Dark Blessing type dmg reduction if the mob can hit through it. Also remove the petrify, it's 2017 people. That shit is old!

Temporal Path "In  most cases, the caster should not be far from the intended victim." If you can get close enough to cast this spell, you probably have a good idea where they are and don't generally need to cast it. It's a flavor spell and always has been. Sometimes it works great and sometimes it leads you to Solace. I don't think anyone is going to spend the time and energy to fix this spell.

Conjure Elemental Ahh, the classic conjure elemental. It's pretty shit. What COULD be cool is the higher level you get, the better the charmies were. I'm talking instead of the water nymph and bapting fire snake or shit pechs Randy, shit pechs, you got the elementals you typically would see from using a conjure stone. No druid is going to go out and farm those stones just to have a pet die in a zone to some area. I don't think druids need pets that can be ranked up like mages, but perhaps just having the ability to summon GOOD enough charmies that hit ok with weapons and have some minor skills would be a great addition.

Paralysis Although I don't agree with the inconsistent part (it will last 5 or 6 rounds, no more no less) it's still a great spell to mem. It tends to land quite a bit and with double spell power ranks I would imagine it's quite powerful, even for some zoning.

Summon Faerie  You are summoning a god damn faerie, unless you put it in a bottle it'll probably fly away.

Druid Equipment

"druid eq is complete shit"  This is....somewhat true. I think the real issue with druid equipment is either A. It shares the same class restrictions as clerics and shamans so they tend to take it over a druid or B. There's not a whole lot of 'druid specific' gear. There are a few niche items that have low maxes so if those are gone you are just kind of stuck with what you can get. Druids don't necessarily NEED good gear but a powerfully equipped druid sure is awesome to have around.

Druid Spell Slots
Finally, I can agree. 7th and 8th slots are jam packed with spells. What would be pretty nice and I think needed is introducing a 9th circle for druids. They have just as many spells as mages and one less circle to work with. Spreading out some of the spells will help ease the woes of not having + slot gear.


Druids can solo just fine, they aren't as fast as other classes but they still have the ability to. It certainly is a lot easier to group and level. As far as not being taken into groups, perhaps with a few of these changes to spells, slots and gear we could see a little more love from druids.

These are just my thoughts on the problems posted above. You may not agree with them but at least give the immortals something to work with.

Nice job Kadaj I loved the post.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Gnua on June 01, 2017, 07:39:59 PM
Well you can't advocate the buffing of an under performing class and not the nerfing of an OP one!

a nerf to the legend shaman class might make sense in combination with a buff to the pre-legend shaman class. the difference between a legend shaman and a non-legend shaman can mean the difference between a group never dropping below good fighting a dragon and a group which cannot even defeat it.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: reed23 on June 01, 2017, 08:27:37 PM
The correct answer is not to nerf shamans or clerics to give us 3 shitty options to chose from.  Didn't we just try that with weapons and everyone about deleted arctic from their minds permanently?  Give druids some love.  Quick changes - buff healing cloud, buff primal fury, buff entangle, buff lightning storm.  Not all of those, but some.  It shouldn't take a lot of time to do that and the class becomes playable again.  A lot of good input has happened in this thread with good options on how to make this shitty class decent again.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Gnua on June 01, 2017, 08:56:40 PM
Shamans heal, do damage, and have spirits.  Clerics heal, do damage, and have corpses.  Druids don't heal, don't do damage, and have water weirds.
Please open my eyes as to why a druid would ever be considered other than to cast refresh levels 1 - 20!

What about moving heal boost and ghostskin from shamans to druids?  That way there would be incentive to put druids into the group for the buffs - druids and shamans could then have a synergy between them.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on June 01, 2017, 11:12:27 PM
So you double the healing done by healing cloud to 600 a round with legend and its a smart heal that goes for 5 to 6 rounds. that's 3600 healing done.  I'm a mathimagician!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Alecto on June 02, 2017, 10:27:11 PM
I think if we give druids bash and backstab, as well as allow them to tether-relocate, and spell trap stun the class would finally be playable!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Hoodoo on June 03, 2017, 01:10:34 AM
Two words.  Trainable. bapting. Pet.

Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Vasagh on June 03, 2017, 09:10:20 AM
My feedback about a first time druid player with all spells/legend at the end (compared to mages which I have played a lot):
http://www.arcticmud.org/forums/index.php/topic,1380.msg10988.html#msg10988
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Zozen on June 03, 2017, 09:13:45 AM
Druids are for refresh. Thank you!
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Rinad on June 03, 2017, 11:37:02 AM
My .02 worth:

Healing for druids = needs to be set to be on par with shamans for back-ups.  Make healers #1 healer.

Damage for spells = see previous posts, most of the posts address this already.

--Only one I noticed that got skipped over was earthquake. - My idea is to make it affect the entire room including flying.
Round 1/spell cast = roll for random scalable number based on Richter scale  1d100 or something 1 being very low damage and 100 being high, each "shake" will have a small chance to force room bash.   The higher the roll the higher the chance to room bash.    Give flying a modifier to reduce the chance for bash.  Have the earthquakes occur every other round or even possibly set them to go off every 2-5 random seconds each "aftershock" for a 30 second to 1 min period of time.

Elementals- make some level restricted stones a bit more buff to be on par with animated corpses/spirits.   Give them legend Elemental and have the ability to make 2 or 3. 

I'm sure I can think of more fixes not mentioned, but this is a good start.   

As far a refresh and mass refresh, berries/scouts/potions/scrolls are good for that too.  Give druids more roles strategy in groups

 


 
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kir on June 03, 2017, 12:25:46 PM
So you double the healing done by healing cloud to 600 a round with legend and its a smart heal that goes for 5 to 6 rounds. that's 3600 healing done.  I'm a mathimagician!

No, the 300 figure was when there was a double cloud. Single cloud is only healing for 120-140 ish...  my above post was to point out that the double cloud was NEVER overpowered. Single healing cloud is a complete and absolute joke and so are druids. Double cloud and primal fury with legend entangle made them worth playing. Single cloud, broken primal fury and worthless entangle = worthless druid. Stoneskin is nice but any mob that stoneskin would be useful for is immune_stoneskin ala cyan, gargantuan, (probably blazewight)

There is simply no excuse for druids to be as shitty as they are and no reason to bring them in a group other than wagg and winds which could easily be replaced by march, scout refresh, or mass teleport from a shitty worthless red robe (but as shitty as mages are they can still out dps a druid)
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Jorake on June 04, 2017, 05:57:36 AM
Druids can have nice pets.. Who cares if you are going out to farm for stones? It takes like 30mins to go round up about 10 decent stones.

I wouldn't buff the conjure elemental spell with other elemental pets.

Druids call bears and wolves and things to help them out. I would make them have a similar pet system like mages.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on June 05, 2017, 11:56:42 AM
I guess I didn't know that. I've only played one legendary druid and it was at the end of the wipe so I had onyx and a dragon orb, that was pretty stupid. But I'd much rather see shaman healing wave get nerfed rather than the druid buffed.  Like someone else said, healers should be #1. Very few people play clerics because they just aren't needed for most stuff. Like I said I hope they can fix druids and make them great again. I hope everyone has fun rushing! Good luck everyone.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: oom on June 05, 2017, 09:52:59 PM
For those interested a further review of logs by the clan historian has concluded healing waved averaged only 100hp or so.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kholos on June 07, 2017, 10:29:11 PM
I read almost nothing on this thread. But I've said before and I will say it again that the key to fixing Druids is just to remove the environmental restrictions on them.

Spells that don't always work:
Earthquake
Call lightning
Entangle
Lightning Storm
Feast
Tornado

I'm sure theres more, but imagine if you could always drop a tornado. Huge increase in Druid capacity from 1 spell being slightly tweaked.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Jorake on June 08, 2017, 11:10:15 AM
Make casting constant winds a requirement for tornado maybe.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Jorquin on June 09, 2017, 05:44:47 AM
I've been very hesitant to weigh in on this discussion. I've made no commitment to modifying druids other than changing the damage on lightning storm. Our silence has lead to a long conversation discussing various things that will not happen. I will make some things clear though...


Reality check - Druids are one of the best classes in the game. The bottom line is that they are the jack of all trades and master of none. They mass refresh, winds, summon, single target frag, cure critical, healing cloud, have paralyze, area damage, area damage negation, a weak area disable, resist elements, area group damage buff, and stoneskin. Druids are good at a lot of things. If you want to be awesome at a few specific things, then maybe you should PICK SOMETHING ELSE
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Gnua on June 09, 2017, 07:16:55 AM
  • Area - If i can get hold of a coder I would like to add an ice storm legendary rank to make it focus. We may not be able to though, they can be scarce.

What language is arctic coded in?  I'm fairly familiar with java, c#, ruby, groovy, and javascript
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Zozen on June 09, 2017, 08:21:36 AM
I will make some things clear though...

Clear skies.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Bryton on June 11, 2017, 08:26:37 PM
I've been very hesitant to weigh in on this discussion. I've made no commitment to modifying druids other than changing the damage on lightning storm. Our silence has lead to a long conversation discussing various things that will not happen. I will make some things clear though...

  • Healing cloud will never go back to hitting two targets. This spell was utterly broken. Stop crying about it and move on with your lives. Balance will be addressed in other areas.
  • Single target frags - Druids actually do okay in this area. Granted a lot of them are garbage (thorn spray is too good, mid level are bad), but granite hand is the best single target frag of all... just saying. Maybe I'd think about buffing cone of cold to give them a little love? Not sure.
  • Area - If i can get hold of a coder I would like to add an ice storm legendary rank to make it focus. We may not be able to though, they can be scarce.
  • Stone skin - Ignore stoneskin is aids. It became a thing recently, it shouldn't be a thing. I agree with some other posts that there should be probably 6-10 mobs that ignore. I will remove a lot of IGNORE_STONESKIN flags during the downtime.

Reality check - Druids are one of the best classes in the game. The bottom line is that they are the jack of all trades and master of none. They mass refresh, winds, summon, single target frag, cure critical, healing cloud, have paralyze, area damage, area damage negation, a weak area disable, resist elements, area group damage buff, and stoneskin. Druids are good at a lot of things. If you want to be awesome at a few specific things, then maybe you should PICK SOMETHING ELSE

The area dam is weak, having all your spells frag is annoying. But yes upgrading cone would be nice. I would mostly like to see Druid only eq. Not this shit that shamans and clerics can use. Unless you plan on making clerics and shamans less OP.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: blackmagus on June 11, 2017, 10:25:26 PM
Pretty sure he just pointed out how OP druid's already are. Don't need to make the favorite PK class of this clan any more broken.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Gramm on June 13, 2017, 06:32:28 AM
Druids are absolutely not overpowered. They have a few strong points and weak points both, reclaim to escape stunfests, wagg, sub par curing until legend cloud, para for disabling, and resists.

Really what needs to be done is figure out if shaman are supposed to be primarily damage or cures, and then make them primarily one OR the other. Right now shaman out damage druids, AND heal on par with clerics.

If anything debuff the shaman from doing so much healing, make them on par with druids in that aspect, and buff druids damage a bit too, that will make healers more popular again maybe. And perhaps druids...

I dont know if other clans noticed this trend, but everyone i know and their mother has a shaman. I hands down helped over 15 shaman reach legend this wipe, and maybe like 2 clerics, 3 druids, mind you shaman spells are much easier to comeby
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Jorake on June 13, 2017, 07:26:41 AM
Druids shouldn't be able to have high cures until legend. But how much did you solo heal with kriss?
Shamans for that matter have a rough time solo healing until legend. Leave everything else alone as far as healing. And just make druids damage go up.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: oom on June 13, 2017, 09:22:43 AM
Pretty sure he just pointed out how OP druid's already are. Don't need to make the favorite PK class of this clan any more broken.

Pretty sure the favorite PK class of RISE is +20 damage bashers.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: oom on June 13, 2017, 09:51:32 AM
Druids are absolutely not overpowered. They have a few strong points and weak points both, reclaim to escape stunfests, wagg, sub par curing until legend cloud, para for disabling, and resists.

Really what needs to be done is figure out if shaman are supposed to be primarily damage or cures, and then make them primarily one OR the other. Right now shaman out damage druids, AND heal on par with clerics.

If anything debuff the shaman from doing so much healing, make them on par with druids in that aspect, and buff druids damage a bit too, that will make healers more popular again maybe. And perhaps druids...

I dont know if other clans noticed this trend, but everyone i know and their mother has a shaman. I hands down helped over 15 shaman reach legend this wipe, and maybe like 2 clerics, 3 druids, mind you shaman spells are much easier to come by.

I'm sorry, this idea that druids suck because shamans are just so good is BS. Shaman do not heal on par with clerics. Shaman don't even do damage on par with clerics when you compare 5 spirits vs legend animate.

Honestly the reason you were seeing so many shaman is because once you are legend, it's hard to play the class poorly. If you have your spirits assist and cast regen when the tank hits good it's easy to look like you're a boss.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Bryton on June 13, 2017, 11:26:56 AM
Well I won't be playing a garbage Druid this wipe until 10 mans are back. Or other classes are brought down to the trash level of Druids. I mean a punch bash does 2x-3x the damage my firestorm, cone of cold, and flameshroud does. So whoever rushes a Druid you're welcome. You will have no competition getting those shitty essences. ✌️
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kir on June 13, 2017, 05:37:34 PM
I agree that nerfing shamans because druids suck is not what anybody would want. People enjoy playing shamans, lets keep it that way. People do not enjoy playing druids,  which is the purpose of this thread. And Jorquin I am sorry but I have to disagree, healing cloud was never OP except when it was usable in nomagic (which made druids elite). The double cloud was still inferior healing to other classes... we have people in Rise who have crunched the numbers and if you want us to message you in private that is easily doable but the numbers aren't even close. Healing cloud was nice because in mid zones the healers could take a break but in end game fights it was still only worth taking a druid because of primal fury. Primal fury is now broke and healing cloud is broken. Explain to me why with 8 man groups anybody would take a druid to cyan? Blazewight? its a waste of a spot. Druid doesn't do enough damage to replace an scout\paladin\warrior and they don't do enough healing to replace a cleric\shaman... they can't main tank so..... Yes utility is nice... but who wants to spend the time it takes to LEGEND a class to be for utility and not be able to go to any high end fights... that sounds simply horrible
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Willoe on June 13, 2017, 10:06:25 PM
I do agree that given the way Blaze/Cyan are set up that the only real reason to bring a druid is for reclaim/winds...That being said they are kind of like a jack of all trades, they have decent damage, decent healing, and decent utility...They aren't meant to replace a primary healer/damage. If healing was to be increased I would argue that the other areas would probably need a nerf.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on June 14, 2017, 06:57:32 AM
One thing I really thing should be addressed and this is just me is the type of gear that's shamanable. 

I've had a few legendary shamans in the past. The one thing I liked to do on my shamans is load up a vicious mithril axe, put a thief spirit in it and run around with 8-10 leather damage items. With damage so easily worn on a shaman(almost all thief items, wrists, rings, waist ect) and the ability to be wielding a two handed weapon, it just gets ridiculous. 10 damage on top having the ability to frenzy and 2x hit, on top of spells that buff your melee on top of having 5 spirits on TOP of having regen and healing wave. It's bapting outrageous what a shaman can do.   Now I know many people play their shamans differently, valuing +slot and +healing done gear but the real focus on shamans should be what direction you want them to go in. Do you want them to be pretty much a melee druid with mediocre heals or just a regen/heal/spirit bot. Right now they can just do way too much.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: kmark101 on June 14, 2017, 10:20:16 AM
One thing I really thing should be addressed and this is just me is the type of gear that's shamanable. 

I've had a few legendary shamans in the passed. The one thing I liked to do on my shamans is load up a vicious mithril axe, put a thief spirit in it and run around with 8-10 leather damage items. With damage so easily worn on a shaman(almost all thief items, wrists, rings, waist ect) and the ability to be wielding a two handed weapon, it just gets ridiculous. 10 damage on top having the ability to frenzy and 2x hit, on top of spells that buff your melee on top of having 5 spirits on TOP of having regen and healing wave. It's bapting outrageous what a shaman can do.   Now I know many people play their shamans differently, valuing +slot and +healing done gear but the real focus on shamans should be what direction you want them to go in. Do you want them to be pretty much a melee druid with mediocre heals or just a regen/heal/spirit bot. Right now they can just do way too much.

Frenzy 2x hit is very retarded, it should be removed asap, then shamans would be fine.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Kadaj on June 19, 2017, 10:30:04 AM
I'd like to see the numbers by your mathemagicians
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Zozen on June 19, 2017, 11:17:06 AM
How many people are playing druids? Are they a 🦄?
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Oligo on June 22, 2017, 01:27:46 AM
Druids need a slight HP bump for survivability, maybe a modest +5~8%.
Of all the classes, they tend to rack up the most deaths in my experience - moreso than mages, and even with barksin, stoneskin, iceskin, and enlarge defense buffs.
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: btown on June 22, 2017, 08:15:17 AM
You have to cast the spells for them to work Oligo.. druids are best for surviving !

Druids already over powered haha
Title: Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
Post by: Oligo on June 22, 2017, 12:17:01 PM
You have to cast the spells

If you're having to cast spells on a druid, you're playin them wrong