Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kronos on December 27, 2016, 01:51:59 PM

Title: WIPE
Post by: Kronos on December 27, 2016, 01:51:59 PM
Is one being considered? There has not been much communication as of late from the new management. What direction are we headed?

-Jon
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Gramm on December 27, 2016, 10:24:46 PM
i like the idea of fooming all gear for a midwipe rush. that was brilliant thinking imho, keeps it fresh
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Jorquin on December 28, 2016, 01:21:12 AM
I've not had internet until today. I moved into a new building and have had massive issues trying to get connected.

As for communication re:pwipe - we can pwipe fairly quickly if we want, it's just a question of how much time i want to hold off so that I can get things done. Depends on the appetite from players, basically.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kam on December 28, 2016, 05:42:09 AM
But guyyyyyyyyyyys, I haven't legendeded yetttt :(
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Gnua on December 28, 2016, 07:34:50 AM
i like the idea of fooming all gear for a midwipe rush. that was brilliant thinking imho, keeps it fresh

i like this idea.  not too sure if coins or spells should be wiped as well though
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: reed23 on December 28, 2016, 01:08:47 PM
Bring on a new wipe!

Also, I think the zapping all gear/spells sounds interesting and fun.  It'd be interesting if very many people showed up for this.  IMO, it'd create some PK atmosphere with the major clans rushing to the zones to pop gear.  Or is PK even allowed anymore?
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Jorquin on December 29, 2016, 12:39:03 AM
PK is allowed, unfortunately most of our players don't have enough maturity to self regulate. This means we probably need to put in a way to confiscate people's ability to be arrogant, destructive dickheads for set periods of time.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: xellos on December 29, 2016, 08:46:22 AM
ya core jumping rise at lvl 15 in bali underground. wtf were they thinking?
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Gramm on December 29, 2016, 12:38:16 PM
It sucks that for a lot of people the wipe ended really early, but for anyone outside of the 2 major clans that had their war and ended it already most people havent had a chance to even get a full 8man of all legended chars too early for wipe : p all you rock stars that have already thrown your party, pick a noob and train it time is here!

Id still like a lot more time myself to take my character into some large zones now that our clan is like 3 spells shy of a few active legend healers. wiping at the like 6 month mark is assuming that everyone can get a legend crew of active people within 6 months and finish the endgame content lol.  give the rest of us neanderthals some more time to learn please.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kronos on December 29, 2016, 01:25:45 PM
Equipment zap? That sounds like pretty cool idea. Our player base is getting older and has less time. Take away the 3-5 days of constant play (RUSH) to get to legend and just wipe the gear. I would bet a lot of people would come back for that. I would vote for an ASAP wipe or eq zap.

I would like to discuss PK. I know a lot of people are discussing PK_ON and PK_OFF type of game play. If the game implements any form of PK_OFF, I truly believe it will be the beginning of the end for Arctic. Maybe it is being considered as a way to get rid of RISE. If your trying to get rid of 15+ consistent players, many of whom have been around for 20+ years...then put in PK_OFF. Most, if not all will quit. Forever. I don't believe it would just be RISE. There are a lot of other regular players who like PK and would be against anything of the sort being added. If you are discussing it and or already coding it, why not discuss it with us??

When this game was the most fun, there were multiple clans at war. I think that there are a lot of players who either don't remember how fun clan warfare can be or have never been involved in a full on total war. I wrote about an idea of how to quench the thirst of PVP a few months ago and there was really no response from IMMs.

I think it would be a HUGE benefit to the game to add an arena. Being able to bet coins, gear or just pvp for fun would add another level to the game as well as allow people to see how much fun PVP can be. Make it pretty open where you could fight 1v1 up to 8v8. Put in something simple and then expand on the idea if it works. There are countless ways to set up fights and that alone would curb the want/need to kill untagged chars. Honestly, it's a solution that would work.

Speaking from the side of RISE I know that we would use it ALL the time. We would have so much fun "killing each other". It would quench the thirst and take away some of the blood lust that we find after we have done all the end game zones/mobs. I know that the mechanic exists. I remember a tournament style pvp arena competition many years ago. Why has no one ever seriously considered this? Maybe it has been, but why not try it?


"MEET ME ON THE BRIDGE, RIGHT NOW!"

-JTFson
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: blackmagus on December 29, 2016, 08:10:20 PM
Allowing some to opt out of player killing, on an IP and/or clan level would be great. RISE may quit, but as has been pointed out time and time again, the only thing they want to do is dominate the game is drive everyone else away.

Yes, RISE is killing Arctic.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kir on December 29, 2016, 09:43:37 PM
Allowing some to opt out of player killing, on an IP and/or clan level would be great. RISE may quit, but as has been pointed out time and time again, the only thing they want to do is dominate the game is drive everyone else away.

Yes, RISE is killing Arctic.
Rise attacked 1 clan this entire wipe. Please explain how this is killing arctic?

[The rest of my post was deleted because it was incendiary and juvenile.]
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kir on January 01, 2017, 08:22:00 PM
Allowing some to opt out of player killing, on an IP and/or clan level would be great. RISE may quit, but as has been pointed out time and time again, the only thing they want to do is dominate the game is drive everyone else away.

Yes, RISE is killing Arctic.
Rise attacked 1 clan this entire wipe. Please explain how this is killing arctic?

[The rest of my post was deleted because it was incendiary and juvenile.]

Lol... so any news on a potential pwipe date? i dont really have an opinion either way but it would be nice to hear some news!!
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: kmark101 on January 02, 2017, 08:18:03 PM
Before you make wipe, there is ONE important change to do, to avoid the quick burnout of all recent wipes (which burnouts are quicker and quicker each time):

After wipe, reverse the rank points from all mobs to minimum. This way, when many people starts and plays, the gap CAN'T BE that huge after a few days/weeks, because it would not matter which group or clan played the most the first 3 days, the ranks gap will remain small. Equipment would still be attainable the same way, so wipe rushers still would have the advantage, but this advantage can't be so huge that it totally ruins all competition.

Just treat every mob at the period of wipe time as they were recently killed. Then as the wipe folds out, rank points would increase and clans will be able to raise in power head to head.

Game will be extremely enjoyable and there will be much competition, without ruining the best part of the game (first few weeks of warfare), but in the long run, people will be able to legend as normally anyway.

Do this and I'll play!
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kam on January 02, 2017, 08:59:47 PM
Welllllllll, this wipe we sort of screwed up by not doing exactly that. It won't be a mistake we'll make again, so don't worry!

Next wipe rank gains won't be so insane at the start.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: gulca on January 03, 2017, 01:37:22 AM
Welllllllll, this wipe we sort of screwed up by not doing exactly that. It won't be a mistake we'll make again, so don't worry!

Next wipe rank gains won't be so insane at the start.

This is crazy mentality. You are discouraging people from playing in a crowd. More people log on, slower rank progression. What??

You should abandon the dynamic ranks instead. Everyone gets the same ranks and legends in same amount of time relatively quickly.

That way, even the small guys can legend and need not wait for the big guys to drop out of the game.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: reed23 on January 03, 2017, 10:43:16 AM
Is it ranks that are holding people up from legending or is it spells and skills?  Almost every character I make at the wipe rush and after the wipe rush waits to legend based on skills/spells and not because of ranks. 

I know the skilling system was overhauled recently - I think it'd be a good idea for whoever was in charge of it take a second look now that it's had some time in the game.  I noticed it significantly harder to skill up when I was playing a DK than it was previously and have heard the same feedback from several players.  Or maybe we just suck.  Old dogs new tricks.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Gnua on January 03, 2017, 10:23:42 PM
Is it ranks that are holding people up from legending or is it spells and skills?  Almost every character I make at the wipe rush and after the wipe rush waits to legend based on skills/spells and not because of ranks. 

I know the skilling system was overhauled recently - I think it'd be a good idea for whoever was in charge of it take a second look now that it's had some time in the game.  I noticed it significantly harder to skill up when I was playing a DK than it was previously and have heard the same feedback from several players.  Or maybe we just suck.  Old dogs new tricks.

For me skills come first (I skill when I cannot find a group that is ranking), spells and rank 20 happen at about the same time. I'm guessing the rise hits rank 20 as the very first thing because of the dynamic ranks.  From what I hear, skilling has become a lot harder. If this is so, the time to legend has probably increased.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kam on January 04, 2017, 09:59:28 AM
Gulca, I'm going to go ahead and ignore what you said since it seems to be in response to inferences you've made from my post and not from any actual information.

reed and gnua, as regard to skilling I've found skilling to be much easier overall but maybe a little more difficult for certain skills. We tried to isolate these but it's very possible we may have missed some things.
If you start a new character and use skills naturally they should progress relatively fluidly. Or at least that was the goal with this new system. If that isn't the case than we'd like to know about it and if you can provide some data or even just specifics that could be helpful.

I would agree that it may be time for a second look and probably some tweaking before we wipe, but major changes are really not in the cards on the code side of things for the moment, so the focus should be more on tweaking than completely reinventing things if we want to be realistic about the possibility of anything happening at all.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: eddiex on January 04, 2017, 11:31:54 AM
Imo: Anything that makes this game any more grindy will reduce the playerbase.  I have 0 interest in rushing if there is no incentive to be the fastest. Those prime ranks you get for being a better player than others is the only thing you are guaranteed to keep the entire wipe. Well unless you get hossed... then you don't even keep those.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: reed23 on January 04, 2017, 01:06:24 PM
I'm with Eddie.  The less grindy the game is the better.  Also, incentivizing people to show up for the rush should be a priority.  We shouldn't reduce the incentive for people to rush, that makes no sense.

And for anyone that believes that gaining ranks uber fast at the wipe rush results in legending faster is somewhat mistaken.  Yes, you will be an overall higher rank, but I've observed for the past several wipes that the majority of people I play with are rank 23-26 before they legend because they have to grind up their skills and spells. 

If we are worried about the overall rank system, just change how fast ranks recharge.  Gaining ranks faster would be a great thing for everyone, especially with some of the new cool ranks available that are super rank point spendy (fireshield, autohaste, improved invis, etc.).
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kir on January 04, 2017, 03:37:03 PM
Also it is a huge misconception that rise outranks everybody because we run zones which are max rank first.... soloers and small groups lead by people such as Randy, locki etc were rsnk 34 this wipe by the time i was rank 24. Being in a big clan, you end up spamming the same zones repeatedly for zero rank points trying to attain gear or spells. You also are doing very hard fights in which you die repeatedly. I am pretty sure the highest rank Demigorgon got to was 26? Its waaaay easier for the intelligent soloer or small group player to rank than it is for clans doing endgame content... obviously there is a tradeoff in gear/spells vs ranks so im not complaining but dont be mislead that rise or core outrank the smaller guys, its simply untrue by a wide margin
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: el conquistador on January 05, 2017, 10:19:46 AM
as a noob player the opening day ranks are ridiculous.  this wipe i hit rank 15 in like 10 hours on wipe day.  then when i leveled up an alt it took like 2 weeks to get to rank 15.

i dont think it should be so extreme.  people who cant play on wipe day or solo are weeks behind on the first day.


*i really do like the idea of a mid wipe pzap though.  seems like a fun idea
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kholos on January 06, 2017, 03:05:23 PM
I'm on board for anything less grindy.  The plain ring is a good idea, but because you only really get rank % on it for soloing it becomes very grindy.

Most skills are harder to train.  Impair especially for DK's.  I even had trouble with thief evade. Mage skills are still pretty bad.  Adrenaline rush is tough but it's a legendary skill. 

Seems to me the skills rank up quicker in the beginning and really get stuck at excellent.  I skill train in between and I still haven't completed my skills by level 30 rank 22/23.  So what exactly is expected when Kam says that skills should rank up 'normally' as you level and rank.  Am I ranking and leveling abnormally?

Otherwise, I'm always ready for a pwipe.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Alecto on January 06, 2017, 08:33:15 PM
In response to Reed and Eddie and all the other strong wipe day rushers:

Ranks in a power clan are a double edged sword - on the one hand you are the first group to run ToT and Dracos and all that stuff, so the ranks that first time are good.  The problem is, as Kir noted, you KEEP running ToT and Dracos pretty much non-stop while you spell up clerics and mages, so thereafter the ranks seriously suck donkey-butt.  As a result you typically quickly get to around 22-24, but at 25 when you hit one of the first major adjustments to max dynamic ranks it typically concurs with the spell-grinding part of days 5-15 of the wipe, ergo the ranking is stale and slow.

I make my entire game off dynamic ranking, I run a LOT of BS zones that few run - just for the ranks. The idea of reducing dynamic ranking actually hurts the casual player more than the hard core folks - who are running the endgame stuff, anyway.

I typically devote 2-3 hours of the first 5 hours of each wipe just grinding crappy little ranks with no xp or cash or spells because I know I can grind those things later, but the easy ranks are all gone by the 5th hour.  That means I have had characters that were rank 12 at level 12.  I actually support the idea of killing every mob right before the game is open to players to reduce dynamic ranks - but I would really like to know in advance since it would massively change my game plan on wipe day...
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: eddiex on January 07, 2017, 11:54:09 AM
I'm confused Alecto. Is killing every rank mob to set the rank to a minimum so ranks suck the entire rush and then give an advantage to someone like you who does obscure ranks for no gear and screw everyone who is trying to rush for gear because they will rarely see good ranks trying to accumulate the best sets (meanwhile u continue grinding obscure ranks and get rewarded for not going for gear)?

This current wipe I rushed and helped lead Krynn's advocate along with some long time friends. I can tell you that our number 1 intention was trying to find unique zones to rank in because we were not as focused on gearing up as it puts a huge target on your back. We also wanted to help those in our clan get as close to legend as possible while we still remained active. My interest as a player in Arctic is limited due to GF anger, so I like to be able to accomplish as much as I can with as little relationship turmoil. Our main healer and re-founder had to quit within the first month (prob sooner) b/c wife aggro.

Rushing for ranks is a draw for people who can't obtain or don't want the attention the limited gear brings. The same goes with gear sets.

I'd argue that culling all rank mobs and making rushing purely about gear is a move that only benefits the elite and increases the grindyness of the game. Neither of these results are appealing to a casual or limited time-basis player.

If ranks were culled and I wasn't going to rush with a top tier clan, I wouldn't bother rushing at all. I could start the grind at any point during the wipe, have the same minimal decent pieces of item, and accomplish more ranking later in the wipe due to minimal population.

TL:DR Culling outstanding rush rank experience will not improve the pwipe experience. IMO: It will actually end up thinning the playerbase even more.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Alecto on January 07, 2017, 02:16:22 PM
Don't get me wrong, Eddie - I love my mad dash through easy ranks on wipe day: it is one of my favorite parts of Arctic.  But I understand that it gives me an advantage over other players, particularly since I do not have a lot of time to commit to the game.  I deal with wife anger: it is like GF anger only with longer lasting legal and financial repercussions.  That quick rank sprint lets me stay about even with the rest of my clan mates as they go hard for the next week while I play one hour each night, go to work, and keep my wife happy.

Clearing the ranks just levels the playing fields for the big clans.  Early wars and hunting allow one clan to often be the first to hit most of the high-high zones in the game, and the ranks from doing so allow them to legend several days sooner. I entirely agree with you that zeroing-out the dynamic ranks on wipe day would completely screw the casual player.  I see both sides of the argument and I am willing to rush hard either way - I just want a decision made in advance and announced so I can make the appropriate adjustments to my wipe day game plan.

Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kir on January 07, 2017, 03:53:39 PM
Don't get me wrong, Eddie - I love my mad dash through easy ranks on wipe day: it is one of my favorite parts of Arctic.  But I understand that it gives me an advantage over other players, particularly since I do not have a lot of time to commit to the game.  I deal with wife anger: it is like GF anger only with longer lasting legal and financial repercussions.  That quick rank sprint lets me stay about even with the rest of my clan mates as they go hard for the next week while I play one hour each night, go to work, and keep my wife happy.

Clearing the ranks just levels the playing fields for the big clans.  Early wars and hunting allow one clan to often be the first to hit most of the high-high zones in the game, and the ranks from doing so allow them to legend several days sooner. I entirely agree with you that zeroing-out the dynamic ranks on wipe day would completely screw the casual player.  I see both sides of the argument and I am willing to rush hard either way - I just want a decision made in advance and announced so I can make the appropriate adjustments to my wipe day game plan.

Alecto, I dont know you but you seem to be the only other intelligent player involved game who is not in Rise and it is nice to finally see a non-Rise player speaking the truth instead of the typical moron/sore loser diarrhea we are used to. As you said, removing the good ranks from the wipe rush would severely damage the casual player. Most actual casual players take time out of their schedule ahead of the wipe to spare 1-2 days to rush. Those are the days that they make the most progress then proceed to play 1-2 hours once or twice a week until they quit. If they dont make a ton of progress at the wipe rush they are never going to legend, which means they are never going to stick around, because all high end content basically requires legend now that group limits are 8. Anybody who thinks removing ranks on day 1 will hurt Core\Rise are bapting morons. Core and Rise are doing elite zones on day 3-4 before the other clans\players which means max ranks in those zones. We are still going to hit rank 20 before everybody else. The limiting factor will continue to be skills\spells, especially since the skilling has been bapted over even more from what I've heard. I think ranks are one of the most fun part of this game. I saw a neutral player beat the most stacked Rise character in a 1v1 duel due to him solo ranking to like 40 or something crazy.

Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: eddiex on January 07, 2017, 05:08:22 PM
A simple solution to not let early wars and hunting allow a clan to jump way ahead of you. Don't start or engage in a fight you aren't willing to finish. Ala CORE ambush/counter-ambush on rise (depending on who's telling the story) and subsequent getting pussies crushed in. From how I saw it CORE attacked RISE at lvl 15 in Bali jail and then again at Aspre.

Do you not understand the clan you are being aggressive toward. They love that part of the game. Don't punish the rest of the casual player-base by making ranking at rush a grind fest because one clan lost a high stakes game of poker they chose to engage in.

CORE tried to preempt, what they felt would be, an imminent attack by RISE and had they won, the script would have been flipped. Had that happened, I doubt we'd even be having this conversation.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: el conquistador on January 07, 2017, 06:02:47 PM

Alecto, I dont know you but you seem to be the only other intelligent player involved game who is not in Rise and it is nice to finally see a non-Rise player speaking the truth instead of the typical moron/sore loser diarrhea we are used to. As you said, removing the good ranks from the wipe rush would severely damage the casual player. Most actual casual players take time out of their schedule ahead of the wipe to spare 1-2 days to rush. Those are the days that they make the most progress then proceed to play 1-2 hours once or twice a week until they quit. If they dont make a ton of progress at the wipe rush they are never going to legend, which means they are never going to stick around, because all high end content basically requires legend now that group limits are 8. Anybody who thinks removing ranks on day 1 will hurt Core\Rise are bapting morons. Core and Rise are doing elite zones on day 3-4 before the other clans\players which means max ranks in those zones. We are still going to hit rank 20 before everybody else. The limiting factor will continue to be skills\spells, especially since the skilling has been bapted over even more from what I've heard. I think ranks are one of the most fun part of this game. I saw a neutral player beat the most stacked Rise character in a 1v1 duel due to him solo ranking to like 40 or something crazy.

i think people might play more after the first day if regular guy ranks werent completely worthless on day 2-30. 
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: reed23 on March 15, 2017, 01:59:40 PM
Dear arctic lords - is there any wipe talks happening, or should we plan on golfing and heading to the lake all summer instead of slaying text dragons?
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Kam on March 17, 2017, 07:36:12 PM
Buy yourself some new bikinis, darling. No wipe plans in the immediate future.
Title: Re: WIPE
Post by: Quid on March 20, 2017, 02:44:27 AM
"..and he' lying in his uniform dying in the sun.."