Arctic Mud

NEWS => NEWS => Topic started by: Hoss on March 02, 2013, 04:17:29 PM

Title: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 02, 2013, 04:17:29 PM
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 02, 2013, 04:23:56 PM
I still want to keep reading the changes more in-depth, but I'm going to say right now you're going to regret and have less people play races where their bonuses do absolutely nothing for them in combat (I'm looking at you kender/human).
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 02, 2013, 04:25:50 PM
@corey Just like with women, you are a bit premature.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: gulca on March 02, 2013, 04:26:00 PM
Nice race benefits change.

Minotaurs can't be evil? Is this even right? Two horns and all.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 02, 2013, 04:28:57 PM
Nice race benefits change.

Minotaurs can't be evil? Is this even right? Two horns and all.

Minotaurs have apparently gone from being evil only to neutral/good only over the years...don't know how.

Disappointed there's no evil race with crit bonus.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Dagda on March 02, 2013, 04:33:23 PM
Love the changes.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 02, 2013, 04:57:19 PM
Are there going to be more major change announcements?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: gulca on March 02, 2013, 05:00:33 PM

Minotaurs have apparently gone from being evil only to neutral/good only over the years...don't know how.

Disappointed there's no evil race with crit bonus.

From wiki,

Minotaurs in Dragonlance

In the Dragonlance campaign setting, the minotaurs, which are also known as "Kothians", are a reasonably civilized and cultured race. They are most commonly found on the islands of Mithas and Kothas (named for the sons of the first Kothian emperor) and are renowned for their tactical brilliance, military strength and superb seamanship.

The majority of the Kothian race worships the evil deity Sargas, who is known to other races as "Sargonnas". Their pride prohibits them from acknowledging the two incarnations as one and the same. In Kothian society, Sargas is portrayed as a giant bull-headed god who is held in higher esteem than the petty god of vengeance and strife that the humans and other lesser races may fear or worship.

Standing in opposition to Sargas is Kiri-Jolith, god of righteous warfare who is known as "Emperor" to the minotaur race. To minotaur living in the mainstream of their own society, followers of Kiri-Jolith are nothing more than heretics and heathens, who are to be loathed, hated and killed on sight in the name of their primary deity, Sargas.

Sargonnas

Sargonnas, also known as the Red Condor, the Firebringer, and the Bull God, represents the godly force of wrath. He orders souls to seek revenge on anything that does them wrong or takes power from them. He is the master of vengeance, wars fought for passion, anger, volcanoes, birds of prey and broken promises. His followers are focused in the use of discipline and order for their pursuits. He is the favorite god of minotaurs, who claim him to be the supreme deity and name him Sargas. Sargonnas favors the minotaurs in turn. Sargonnas is the consort to Takhisis, despite having an uneasy partnership with her; he can ally with her or oppose her to further his own goals. With Takhisis gone and his followers flourishing, Sargonnas is a powerful god in the current time of Krynn. Sargonnas has no real allies. He conflicts with his child Nuitari, and Chemosh, Morgion, and Hiddukel are distrusted by him. He does, however, ally with Zeboim, because his minotaurs are a seafaring people, and they often honor her. Kiri-Jolith and Paladine are his enemies among the Gods of Good, although each side has a grudging respect for the other. His celestial symbol is the constellation Condor. Sargonnas is known to appear in several forms: His most favored form is a minotaur with jet black or blood red fur, massive horns and blazing eyes, but he can also appear as a minotaur made of magma or a monstrous condor. Minotaurs claim that five is Sargonnas's favored number.[28]
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 02, 2013, 05:07:16 PM

Minotaurs have apparently gone from being evil only to neutral/good only over the years...don't know how.

Disappointed there's no evil race with crit bonus.

From wiki,

Minotaurs in Dragonlance

In the Dragonlance campaign setting, the minotaurs, which are also known as "Kothians", are a reasonably civilized and cultured race. They are most commonly found on the islands of Mithas and Kothas (named for the sons of the first Kothian emperor) and are renowned for their tactical brilliance, military strength and superb seamanship.

The majority of the Kothian race worships the evil deity Sargas, who is known to other races as "Sargonnas". Their pride prohibits them from acknowledging the two incarnations as one and the same. In Kothian society, Sargas is portrayed as a giant bull-headed god who is held in higher esteem than the petty god of vengeance and strife that the humans and other lesser races may fear or worship.

Standing in opposition to Sargas is Kiri-Jolith, god of righteous warfare who is known as "Emperor" to the minotaur race. To minotaur living in the mainstream of their own society, followers of Kiri-Jolith are nothing more than heretics and heathens, who are to be loathed, hated and killed on sight in the name of their primary deity, Sargas.

Sargonnas

Sargonnas, also known as the Red Condor, the Firebringer, and the Bull God, represents the godly force of wrath. He orders souls to seek revenge on anything that does them wrong or takes power from them. He is the master of vengeance, wars fought for passion, anger, volcanoes, birds of prey and broken promises. His followers are focused in the use of discipline and order for their pursuits. He is the favorite god of minotaurs, who claim him to be the supreme deity and name him Sargas. Sargonnas favors the minotaurs in turn. Sargonnas is the consort to Takhisis, despite having an uneasy partnership with her; he can ally with her or oppose her to further his own goals. With Takhisis gone and his followers flourishing, Sargonnas is a powerful god in the current time of Krynn. Sargonnas has no real allies. He conflicts with his child Nuitari, and Chemosh, Morgion, and Hiddukel are distrusted by him. He does, however, ally with Zeboim, because his minotaurs are a seafaring people, and they often honor her. Kiri-Jolith and Paladine are his enemies among the Gods of Good, although each side has a grudging respect for the other. His celestial symbol is the constellation Condor. Sargonnas is known to appear in several forms: His most favored form is a minotaur with jet black or blood red fur, massive horns and blazing eyes, but he can also appear as a minotaur made of magma or a monstrous condor. Minotaurs claim that five is Sargonnas's favored number.[28]

Trust me, I read my Reavers of Blood Sea a few times (best Dragonlance book out there).
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jarrad on March 02, 2013, 05:10:57 PM
Interesting changes. Not sure I like the removal of scout from all the strength based races as a balance issue, particularly for someone wanting to play an evil scout. Their only options are human, kender, half elf and silvanesti. Both kender and silvanesti typically having had abysmal strength. But of course being blind to the actual max min values per class/race its just speculation...

The different bonuses such as damage reduced, spell damage increased etc etc look particularly fun but I am sure the values here are quite low.

Good to see continuing evolution for Arctic :)
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: kilians on March 02, 2013, 07:49:58 PM
intresting cannot wait for mud to boot back up and get started into the wipe thanks for updates hoss your my hero! seriously.........
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jorake on March 02, 2013, 10:25:05 PM
So goblins can't be scouts? Minotaurs cant be scouts? What the hell are you doing! And dargonesti was so great of  a race. Its one of my main reasons to want to legend a character. Because you worked hard to be able to get that benefit of having a buff legendary race character
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Chisul on March 02, 2013, 11:15:19 PM
A small suggestion, please update the race help files to include this new info. Sounds cool in the "I'm interested to see how this pans out" kind of way. I'm rolling a gully for sure.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Gramm on March 03, 2013, 06:32:14 AM
Trial and error man! This will be good i think, dargos were amazing but way too op. naked with haste buffs last wipe i think i personally saw 22 str 26 dex and 25 con
amazing and definatly a bit broken lol.
The only real odd thing here is yes that minotaurs cant be evil, if they cannot be evil they should also not be good. I mean at least make them neutral and throw a story line in about why they hate evil "and" good equally!
I just cant fathom giant angry bulls being very nice to anything before they would choose to stomp them dead for sport.
I forsee a buttload of late wipe gnomish nightmarers! mark my words!!! Gnomes will rue the day!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Dagda on March 03, 2013, 07:15:06 AM
Trial and error man! This will be good i think, dargos were amazing but way too op. naked with haste buffs last wipe i think i personally saw 22 str 26 dex and 25 con
amazing and definatly a bit broken lol.
The only real odd thing here is yes that minotaurs cant be evil, if they cannot be evil they should also not be good. I mean at least make them neutral and throw a story line in about why they hate evil "and" good equally!
I just cant fathom giant angry bulls being very nice to anything before they would choose to stomp them dead for sport.
I forsee a buttload of late wipe gnomish nightmarers! mark my words!!! Gnomes will rue the day!

The stories tell how the Minotaurs of Krynn are 'honorable', to me that means lawful not necessarily good or evil (although they worship Sargonnas - a very evil god).  However, if you take in the idea of Kaz, then good should be on the table.  I tend to think that Minos should require that they be lawful, not necessarily good, neutral, or evil.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 03, 2013, 09:55:35 AM
See updated post. Yes, the Minotaur bit was a typo on my part.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: kilians on March 03, 2013, 10:21:00 AM
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Dagda on March 03, 2013, 10:46:02 AM
See updated post. Yes, the Minotaur bit was a typo on my part.

Thank you for the update. 
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Flair on March 03, 2013, 11:10:39 AM
Cool changes!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jorake on March 03, 2013, 12:16:49 PM
If you really wanna fix the game to make it more of a challnege. Up the legend requirement from rank 20 to rank 25. It is a drastic difference to get from 20 to 25. People would have to focus more on 1 character and you woudlnt have a TON of legend shit going around and solo'ing things like they did wipes previous
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 03, 2013, 12:35:59 PM
Trial and error man! This will be good i think, dargos were amazing but way too op. naked with haste buffs last wipe i think i personally saw 22 str 26 dex and 25 con
amazing and definatly a bit broken lol.
The only real odd thing here is yes that minotaurs cant be evil, if they cannot be evil they should also not be good. I mean at least make them neutral and throw a story line in about why they hate evil "and" good equally!
I just cant fathom giant angry bulls being very nice to anything before they would choose to stomp them dead for sport.
I forsee a buttload of late wipe gnomish nightmarers! mark my words!!! Gnomes will rue the day!

Are you by a chance a blind man who's been given his sight back?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jarrad on March 03, 2013, 04:30:47 PM
Goblins now have excellent strength and intelligence? I sense another typo!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: muddeer on March 03, 2013, 05:07:56 PM
I'm not clear.  These modifications are relative to last wipe's race stats/saves/etc. or to some baseline (i.e., human)?  For example, hylars always have gotten save vs magic bonus.  So now hylars get even better save vs magic, or simply better than the average (human's)?

edit:  also, does this mean Kagos are better bashers or better at avoiding bashes?
"Receive a bonus to their bash modifier."
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Gnua on March 03, 2013, 05:08:39 PM
Goblins now have excellent strength and intelligence? I sense another typo!

Could we get confirmation of this strength and intelligence race? I don't recall any race ever having both since 1997. I wasnt gonna play this wipe, but then I read the announcement and figured a healer, shaman, dk, and mage might be kinda fun if goblins had str and int.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 03, 2013, 05:16:38 PM
Quote
edit:  also, does this mean Kagos are better bashers or better at avoiding bashes?
"Receive a bonus to their bash modifier."

Kagonesti are now better at avoiding things that put you on your butt, i.e. bash, charge, etc..

Quote
Goblins now have excellent strength and intelligence? I sense another typo!
Not a typo, the smart little goblins have been hitting the gym.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Dagda on March 03, 2013, 05:45:07 PM
Quote
edit:  also, does this mean Kagos are better bashers or better at avoiding bashes?
"Receive a bonus to their bash modifier."

Kagonesti are now better at avoiding things that put you on your butt, i.e. bash, charge, etc..

Quote
Goblins now have excellent strength and intelligence? I sense another typo!
Not a typo, the smart little goblins have been hitting the gym.

G.T.L.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Bryton on March 03, 2013, 07:16:45 PM
obviously gramm you didnt read that gnomes cant be evil align. So no there wont be any gnomes with nightmare.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 03, 2013, 07:28:35 PM
obviously gramm you didnt read that gnomes cant be evil align. So no there wont be any gnomes with nightmare.

Since when can brighton use his head?!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: RaVaN on March 03, 2013, 07:34:25 PM
@gnua

  Goblin DKs and Shamans have been awesome for a while.  Always struck me as odd that most people didn't make goblin DKs and shamans unless they were making an exotic race or had a different ingame goal.

  I really can't wait to see some more updates, these race changes just seem interesting.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 03, 2013, 07:39:29 PM
@gnua

  Goblin DKs and Shamans have been awesome for a while.  Always struck me as odd that most people didn't make goblin DKs and shamans unless they were making an exotic race or had a different ingame goal.

  I really can't wait to see some more updates, these race changes just seem interesting.

I don't know about others, but NOWclan has been making goblins for wipes and wipes. Whatever name I had for my DK last wipe (two wipes ago?) was a goblin.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 03, 2013, 07:41:25 PM
Quote
I don't know about others, but NOWclan has been making goblins for wipes and wipes. Whatever name I had for my DK last wipe (two wipes ago?) was a goblin.

cool story bro
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: RaVaN on March 03, 2013, 07:51:49 PM
@corey

  Yeah, I know.  It's probably even how I decided to make a goblin DK last wipe and this wipe.  Before these changes I was a pretty firm convert to the goblins with the three classes I tended to play. DK, Barb, and Shaman.  I see Barbs didn't make the goblin cut, which will be interesting to me at least.  These changes pretty much have me curious on what I will play come wipe start.  Probably will all depend on what other changes are made known. 
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: reed23 on March 03, 2013, 07:52:32 PM
Thanks,
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Tajs on March 04, 2013, 09:08:32 AM
I wonder if race specific weapons like wyrmslayer + scabbard, tidebreaker and the like will be handled?
Quali/silva elves are not the meanest of warrior races!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Anasazi on March 04, 2013, 01:06:28 PM
No gnome druids?  Interesting.  No hill dwarf druids either?  Damn.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: andguent on March 05, 2013, 12:12:13 AM
No gnome druids?  Interesting.  No hill dwarf druids either?  Damn.

Sigh. Never thought I'd see a time when druids were too powerful. I guess its to be expected if the non-clanned don't play mages much.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jorquin on March 05, 2013, 05:19:39 AM
new changes are cool, but what would be coolest would be fixing the problems with nightmare/ comeuppance / the ease with which top tier mage area is gettable / mages are the devil.
fingers crossed!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: btown on March 05, 2013, 06:14:15 AM
if you dont let druids be hill-dwarfs i quit forsure like 1000% i really will like seriously, im tellin u im gonna quit. u better change that shit back!  thats it ! its war again
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Gramm on March 05, 2013, 06:26:12 AM
I had a couple of duels with nightmaring mages on my rank 32 barbarian. I remember getting tented webbed nightmared and then acid misted to 192 hps from my starting 935 before i could even move. I was legend for both fights while the mages i had fought were not. Seriously seriously seriously agree with daniel, mages need some sort of circumcision, please chop off half of their balls and even the mage class out. if anything just take acid mist away even. I mean The black robed mages get the stun and the power combined.
300 hps mage with tent nightmare and acid mist at rank 19 >  rank 32 barbarian with 935 hps and revification.
               NOT ADDING UP--------------------------------------------^
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: RaVaN on March 05, 2013, 06:53:56 AM
@Gramm

  What was your dex/saves and no available npp?  Regardless, I hate mages in general but for the most part I would be happy with "no_relocate/tele" gear and "locate" removed from the game.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Aristox on March 05, 2013, 08:11:03 AM
I had a couple of duels with nightmaring mages on my rank 32 barbarian. I remember getting tented webbed nightmared and then acid misted to 192 hps from my starting 935 before i could even move. I was legend for both fights while the mages i had fought were not. Seriously seriously seriously agree with daniel, mages need some sort of circumcision, please chop off half of their balls and even the mage class out. if anything just take acid mist away even. I mean The black robed mages get the stun and the power combined.
300 hps mage with tent nightmare and acid mist at rank 19 >  rank 32 barbarian with 935 hps and revification.
               NOT ADDING UP--------------------------------------------^

1: A single anecdote is not evidence of anything. 
-I am not saying I don't believe you, or that things don't need to change, but this is equivalent to rolling a die 3 times and getting 1 each time and calling it loaded.

2:  We never release the class tweaks until right before the wipe new opens.
-I fiddle with them a lot over the downtime trying to find the sweet spot.  Keep your pants on.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Malaki on March 05, 2013, 10:07:15 AM
--Can follow any alignment.--

Stupid question, but I'm asking it anyway.

Can "FOLLOW" x alignment... means they can be that alignment?
or They cant literally follow other chars of that align?
or Both?

-Thanks
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 05, 2013, 07:30:51 PM
Follow is used here as in "follow the path". I am sorry if that was misleading I could have worded that more clearly.

Can follow any alignment = can select any alignment
Cannot follow evil alignments = cannot select any evil alignment
Cannot follow good alignments = cannot select any good alignment
Can only be X alignment = can only select from X alignments.

You can expect that in Lube® that alignments will shed the Gary Gygax robe of Lameness and be condensed into Good, Evil and Neutral.
Natural 20!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jorquin on March 06, 2013, 01:32:15 AM
if you're gonna tweak mages i'd suggest looking at the way % spell damage increases work, specifically when you stack a few.

with innate legendary bonus, a some spell damage items (+40-50% is quite achievable), legend dark accord, dragon orb mind afire... it gets disgusting pretty quickly.
that said, there may only be a couple of people or even one person able to get the required set to reach the point where it becomes ridiculous... i have personally seen double rends towards the end of dark accord do in excess of 550hp which is pretty gross.

i never bothered to test the arcane power potion from the alchemy quest either, but if it increased the damage further you could probably one round a 600hp tank no problem.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: xellos on March 06, 2013, 09:00:23 AM
300 hps? more like 450hps and 260 flesh shield rank 21 !
I had a couple of duels with nightmaring mages on my rank 32 barbarian. I remember getting tented webbed nightmared and then acid misted to 192 hps from my starting 935 before i could even move. I was legend for both fights while the mages i had fought were not. Seriously seriously seriously agree with daniel, mages need some sort of circumcision, please chop off half of their balls and even the mage class out. if anything just take acid mist away even. I mean The black robed mages get the stun and the power combined.
300 hps mage with tent nightmare and acid mist at rank 19 >  rank 32 barbarian with 935 hps and revification.
               NOT ADDING UP--------------------------------------------^
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Anasazi on March 06, 2013, 01:49:59 PM
The simplification of alignment choices to good, neutral, and evil is great.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Al on March 06, 2013, 04:36:34 PM
the changes look pretty cool. i did chuckle at the fact that goblins have excellent intelligence! those scholastically gifted rgbs... i always knew they had it in them!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Gnua on March 06, 2013, 05:00:05 PM
the changes look pretty cool. i did chuckle at the fact that goblins have excellent intelligence! those scholastically gifted rgbs... i always knew they had it in them!

I guess we can now call them:
the read goblin brigade
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 06, 2013, 05:28:04 PM
Gully Dwarves: Receive increased chance for extra attacks.

I have to ask...is this written properly? Does this increase the chance for extra attacks if it were a barbarian, shaman, a certain class wearing a certain full set, a certain other item or items? Hasted character?

Or does it innately add a chance to deal an extra attack?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: gulca on March 06, 2013, 06:26:20 PM
Gully Dwarves: Receive increased chance for extra attacks.


Would make more sense if we set Gully Dwarves immune to poison, and after every meal, there is a 33% chance of farting "stinking cloud" and 1% chance of "cloud kill" for the next 4 ticks.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jorquin on March 06, 2013, 08:59:22 PM
a "chance" is a fairly loose description. could be 80% extra attack or 1%. i'd suggest its probably on the lower end of the spectrum though.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Gnua on March 06, 2013, 09:26:10 PM
Gully Dwarves: Receive increased chance for extra attacks.

I have to ask...is this written properly? Does this increase the chance for extra attacks if it were a barbarian, shaman, a certain class wearing a certain full set, a certain other item or items? Hasted character?

Or does it innately add a chance to deal an extra attack?
My best guess is that everybody now gets a small innate chance for an extra attack (like how dodge used to be thief only but now everybody gets it) and gully dwarves have an even better chance. This might help address the problem of +dam scaling poorly with weapons that use both hand slots. Last time I calculated, even a mediocre enchant on a charred bastard with a coral sword offhand would have better dps than the soth sword if the tank had 3dam (including strength bonus)
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jarrad on March 07, 2013, 01:45:11 AM

My best guess is that everybody now gets a small innate chance for an extra attack (like how dodge used to be thief only but now everybody gets it) and gully dwarves have an even better chance. This might help address the problem of +dam scaling poorly with weapons that use both hand slots. Last time I calculated, even a mediocre enchant on a charred bastard with a coral sword offhand would have better dps than the soth sword if the tank had 3dam (including strength bonus)
[/quote]

6d6 +3 = 24 avg (wardancing 48) max 78

3d6 +2 =12.5 avg (wardancing 25) max 40
4d4 +3 = 13 avg max 19
total = 48 max 59

I think in this case the average damage is misleading... I would personally take the soth sword, looks like the dual wielder needs 10 dam to top the max damage output
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: RaVaN on March 07, 2013, 07:06:09 AM
Ditto, or (insert trash weapons I like here) just due to the fact that DPS disappears verra rapidly if that barb is disarmed...especially bashed and disarmed.  Big believer that main tank barb always uses a two-hander due to skills plus some other things.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: giles on March 07, 2013, 11:20:46 AM


I think in this case the average damage is misleading... I would personally take the soth sword, looks like the dual wielder needs 10 dam to top the max damage output

But, in turn, the soth sword needs a lot more damage to match the min damage of the dual wield example.  Why do you think top damage is important?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 07, 2013, 11:21:47 AM
Another question on top of gully (not that it looks like that's going to be answered):

Wild elves
Receive a bonus to their bash modifier.

Is that lowering the chance to be bashed or increased chance of landing a bash on an opponent?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jarrad on March 07, 2013, 11:44:49 AM
@Corey

Quote
edit:  also, does this mean Kagos are better bashers or better at avoiding bashes?
"Receive a bonus to their bash modifier."

Kagonesti are now better at avoiding things that put you on your butt, i.e. bash, charge, etc..

Quote
Goblins now have excellent strength and intelligence? I sense another typo!
Not a typo, the smart little goblins have been hitting the gym.

@Giles

Superb skill combined with hitroll items means that you get alot of dice rolls for every attack, unless you are super unlucky, min rolls are ignored *edit This is my interpretation, through gameplay, not from game code
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: corey on March 07, 2013, 11:47:03 AM
@Corey

Quote
edit:  also, does this mean Kagos are better bashers or better at avoiding bashes?
"Receive a bonus to their bash modifier."

Kagonesti are now better at avoiding things that put you on your butt, i.e. bash, charge, etc..

Quote
Goblins now have excellent strength and intelligence? I sense another typo!
Not a typo, the smart little goblins have been hitting the gym.

@Giles

Superb skill combined with hitroll items means that you get alot of dice rolls for every attack, unless you are super unlucky, min rolls are ignored

Whoops must have missed that reply, thanks.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Gnua on March 07, 2013, 12:27:08 PM
Ditto, or (insert trash weapons I like here) just due to the fact that DPS disappears verra rapidly if that barb is disarmed...especially bashed and disarmed.  Big believer that main tank barb always uses a two-hander due to skills plus some other things.

My barb used 2handers as well, but it wasnt for the dps, it was for the nodisarm.

Of course, when I started wearing a -2dam npp then 2hand damage started to resemble dual wield damage.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Wukong on March 07, 2013, 03:58:30 PM
Hi all friends.
Looks like this will be the first wipe I'll miss since 1995.  Hopefully will be able to check things out at some point.

The changes look neat overall, but no goblin shamans is sadpanda.jpg and confusing.  All hail Lloth.

Dan
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Alecto on March 07, 2013, 09:45:36 PM
you can make a theiwar shaman...isn't theiwar just the new goblin?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Anaya on March 08, 2013, 02:53:09 AM
i dont see where it says Theiwar or Goblin CAN be Shamans so not sure what you are talkin about
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: mrmavisb on March 09, 2013, 02:08:48 PM
You're welcome :)
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Jarrad on March 10, 2013, 12:01:42 PM
Somehow you forgot to switch hylar/hill dwarf race options for scout. Can't be a hill, can be a hylar
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 10, 2013, 01:16:39 PM
Quote
Somehow you forgot to switch hylar/hill dwarf race options for scout. Can't be a hill, can be a hylar

fixed. *players that had selected hylar dwarf and scout have had their race changed to hill dwarf.
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Wukong on March 18, 2013, 10:49:02 AM
Try as I might, I cannot figure out the reasoning behind goblins being able to be clerics but not shamans.  It just seems reversed from what the fantasy genre would dictate.
Might you shed some light on the logic behind this?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 18, 2013, 06:07:13 PM
It would be pretty hard to use logic to define fantasy, but here goes.

I would agree that in a fantasy setting that I could see a goblin be a shaman and NOT a cleric, however in trying to balance everything out with the races we had, they just didn't make the cut. To the logic/fantasy bit: Goblins went to school and got a lot smarter, which naturally led them away from the back hills shaman redneck role and more into the studious cleric role. Maybe GLT should have been gym library tan
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: btown on March 19, 2013, 06:25:29 AM
its GTL.   get it right!
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Gnua on March 19, 2013, 09:48:09 AM
Goblins went to school and got a lot smarter, which naturally led them away from the back hills shaman redneck role and more into the studious cleric role.

The well-read goblin brigade?
Title: Re: March 2nd, 2013 -- Upcoming Changes Preview
Post by: Hoss on March 19, 2013, 02:06:08 PM
locked for great justice