Arctic Mud

NEWS => Development News => Topic started by: Jorquin on October 07, 2016, 04:04:19 AM

Title: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jorquin on October 07, 2016, 04:04:19 AM
These are going to be put under the microscope. Powerful spells are fun, however the recent spree of blitzkrieg attacks has highlighted that their current state is overpowered in the PK environment. Internal debate has also yielded a perspective of mages being fairly balanced for PVE, however the PK situation must change. This has already been agreed upon and is not subject to debate. The real question is what that change looks like. This thread is effectively an ideas canvas. We're open to suggestions both large and small.

One idea that has been touted is to create three different "power word" spells for the different robes and abolish PWS completely. The resulting spells could be something along the lines of:

"Power word shield" for White Robe - area spell absorbtion, damage reduction or immunity for a set number of rounds
"Power word locate" for Red Robes - lists the current room name of every player online - lengthy cooldown attached
"Power word cripple" for Black Robes - save vs spell or have increased damage taken, minus concentration and fumble chance applied


Another idea is just to rework save vs spell entirely to give players more opportunity to rank / itemize against "mage blitz" strategy.

Post your thoughts & comments below, we'd love to hear them.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Kadaj on October 07, 2016, 07:23:03 AM
I never really liked the idea of every mage having PWS available to them. I feel like you can't just go change it now, especially since A. Some mages have it and B. Some mages rolled specific robes in order to get it. I really like the idea of three different 'power word' spells.

Power word shield - I like the idea of area spell absorption or damage reduction, maybe a group haste similar to bolster that can only be casted once every 15 rounds?
Power word force - area force missile with all the perks of force missile - explode/bash ect
Power word cripple - This sounds like a lot of the spells black robes have now that no one uses Chaos, Devastation, Mass Hysteria.

White robes are the group buffer/defensive mages, they already have an area cleanse and can transfer spells to their group mates.  Perhaps a group wide haste with a cooldown, maybe something similar to acid mist but with fire or arcane damage and has a chance to resist being gusted away. Or the ability to disable disabling affects for a short time, immune to stun/group mindshield.

Red robes are the utility class, they locate the best, have a lot of things to do with mobility ect but they lack in the AoE department that Blacks and Whites have. I think something with an area force missile or area force bolt would be pretty cool if it ha the chance to explode from each one for more area damage or to bash the targets like FB/FM do.

Black robes are the offensive mages, they excel at dealing area damage and disruption on the battlefield. The black robes mages are tough to balance, they have great single target spells in pain, constrict heart, energy drain and rend. Perhaps their new spell could lower the resistances of targets or allow their spells to bypass resistances. Ever try to tent a group of NPP mobs? Or fight a pair of NPP mobs that aren't 'human' so you can't rend/pain them? it's awful. 

These are just off the top of my head, I think there is plenty of room to improve on these spells. I think adding PWS to every mage was perhaps a little over the top but with lack of coders, you did what you could with the resources you had.

I look forward to reading other suggestions.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Episte on October 07, 2016, 07:44:02 AM
I never really liked the idea of every mage having PWS available to them. I feel like you can't just go change it now, especially since A. Some mages have it and B. Some mages rolled specific robes in order to get it. I really like the idea of three different 'power word' spells.

Power word shield - I like the idea of area spell absorption or damage reduction, maybe a group haste similar to bolster that can only be casted once every 15 rounds?
Power word force - area force missile with all the perks of force missile - explode/bash ect
Power word cripple - This sounds like a lot of the spells black robes have now that no one uses Chaos, Devastation, Mass Hysteria.


okay here's 3 random power spell ideas.

Power word subversion - disbands group/following structure of those not grouped with caster + sublimates all those who fail save
Power word scatter - mass teleports mob/pvp opponent group around the same zone (for those who fail) - could be painful, or funny?
Power word splinter - makes failed targets ignore_healing_effects (heal/cure/cure blind/etc) for 6-12 rounds
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Toinu on October 07, 2016, 09:10:54 AM
Remove it, with regret because it was a nice strong class addition. But mages have prismatic spray which is PK effective and also implies saving against. Prism is debilitating but not as deadly as PWS. If there is a PWS, it should be one of the beams of prism, which would focus the debate entirely around upping or nerfing prism.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Ezio on October 07, 2016, 11:02:27 AM
More opportunity to defend it would be great.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Valenore on October 07, 2016, 12:30:56 PM
Easiest solution is to say the PWS spell is so powerful that it also effects the caster (real kick in the nuts would be make it auto-land on caster).  Now the stunners become sacrificial lambs unless you have a lot of coordination to instantly remove the effect from them.  Similar variations on that idea could be caster has to make a save versus it effecting everyone in room (own group), excessive casting lag, hp/health drop like haste, cool down timer, etc associated with stun.   
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: btown on October 07, 2016, 01:07:21 PM
Easiest solution is to say the PWS spell is so powerful that it also effects the caster (real kick in the nuts would be make it auto-land on caster).  Now the stunners become sacrificial lambs unless you have a lot of coordination to instantly remove the effect from them.  Similar variations on that idea could be caster has to make a save versus it effecting everyone in room (own group), excessive casting lag, hp/health drop like haste, cool down timer, etc associated with stun.

I like this idea! lol
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jorquin on October 07, 2016, 01:13:16 PM
The problem there is the different ways player & mobile casting interact. Mobiles would be required to be exempt from this rule, and there's no appetite to implement differing functionality for spells based on whether they're cast by players or mobiles. This is based off advice from wise old coders, who are probably worth listening to.

Otherwise it would be a solid solution, but based off the advice of not having conditional effects (i.e. player cast or mobile cast), it wouldn't be fit for purpose.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: btown on October 07, 2016, 02:20:55 PM
What if PWS drops everybody for 1 round to recover,  and the ones who dont save stay down

Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: btown on October 07, 2016, 02:21:34 PM
I am not pushing for that just an idea to go with the others
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: fulloflife on October 07, 2016, 02:51:30 PM
I think this is somewhat of a math problem on how often we want the spell to land (given the average group size, and the number of mages that would be coming to the fight) and maybe even how many rounds we want it to land for. Together, you are just deciding over the total expected rounds of incapacitation per spell casting in an average pvp fight.

So my advice is to:

1) Increase the baseline probability of the spell to fail (obviously if it lands 1% of the time, no one will use it, and 10% might be too high because that's stunning 1 person on average per round for a group of 8 per mage.).

2a) Have more spell save choices in eq\ranks\spells\skills but keeping in mind your objective in 1.

2b) Tighten the control for spell save mods eq\ranks\spells\skills again keeping in mind your objective in 1.

I would prefer to trying this experiment first versus just getting rid of the spell or switching to a different spell altogether.

Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jorake on October 07, 2016, 05:55:09 PM
Only reds get stun now right? Or is it all robes?

I really like the power word versions.

I also think that maybe the spell itself should just be limited. There are 3 nobashes, 3 dragon orbs, etc. Why not make it so you have to have an item to have access to the spell

I feel like if you change saves to make up for the stun then why not just scale stun back anyhow?

I liked it when there was just nightmare. If you wanted to stun someone you had to be a black robe. That felt pretty balanced really. Whites got prism, reds got blastwave. Everyone had their own area.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: jrrestad on October 07, 2016, 09:49:47 PM
A good start would be making veil of ice duration last longer and for more than one spell..  That absorbs stun right?
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: lurker on October 07, 2016, 10:40:28 PM

I also think that maybe the spell itself should just be limited. There are 3 nobashes, 3 dragon orbs, etc. Why not make it so you have to have an item to have access to the spell


I made a suggestion along these lines a long time ago. It could be built into the spell component system.

If you cast PW:Stun without the component, you get the nerfed version. Might work a bit on lower level players, but not super effective at high level pk, easy to save against.

If you cast PW:Stun with the component, two things happen. One, the spell is cast at it's full strength as it exists now. Two, the spell component is created in your inventory at some % chance. Elite level item, make it 97%, almost permanent but there is a small chance that the component is expended completely when casting. Easier to pop ghetto stun variant component: 50% chance to poof on cast, so you can only really use it when you are really desperate.

The component can be as rare and as limited as desired, limit 3 for the elite version perhaps. Even the ghetto variant needs to be somewhat hard to get or limited, because a mage with several copies of it could still cast a lot of stuns. Make it norent and decay after 24 tics so it can't be stockpiled too much maybe. Whatever.

The same concept can be used for other spells.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: gulca on October 08, 2016, 02:47:00 AM
Everytime you save against a spell, you gain bonus save against the same spell.

40℅ gain on each consecutive saves. The immunity starts to wear out after 1d4 rounds from the last save at -20% per round.

So 5 mage casting the same spell in a couple of rounds will find it really inefficient.

Or another idea
Cast "power word stun" melee/caster/no argument

If you choose target, you get higher chance of landing on the chosen class type. The non chosen type is not affected.
With no argument, chance to land is reduced by 50℅ but lands on every one.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Amar on October 08, 2016, 06:17:54 AM
Make it channeled like Tent.  Stunned people are only stunned as long as the caster channels.  Getting hit would have a good chance to end the spell.  That way a good PWS cast that hits many people could both be useful, and the other groups unaffected people could still respond by attempting to hit the caster to free their group members.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: reed23 on October 08, 2016, 07:06:35 AM
Having stun in the game is a good thing.  It evens the playing field for all clans if u can just somehow get your hands on the book.  It sounds like there are multiple ways of getting stun this wipe via mob, quest, chaos.  I think having a couple classes designated as the "anti-mage" would be a better solution. 

Paladin - Have freedom not only free from stun/nightmare but make your group Imm-nightmare/stun for a few rounds.
Druid - Veil of ice be huge save vs stun/nightmare and make the legend druid imm-nightmare/stun, similar to the free action flag clerics get with legend free action rank.

Side tangent - druids guild is a very sad class atm.  The fact that healing cloud was nerfed because it was to OP is strange to me considering it healed 2 targets for 200ish per round, yet legend shamans can heal the ENTIRE group for 100-200 every round.  Put healing cloud back to normal, and buff veil of ice, and druids will get played again.

I also am in favor of making more saves vs. spell available via rank.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: adepali on October 09, 2016, 07:37:57 AM
My suggestions:

- PWS doesn't work if victim is higher than a specific HP %, similar to D&D (where it doesn't work beyond some HP, you need to damage high-level mobs first to make them vulnerable)

- Arcane shield (at least the white one) becomes room effect and also helps against non-damage area spells.

Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: blackmagus on October 09, 2016, 10:06:54 AM
"Power word shield" for White Robe - area spell absorbtion, damage reduction or immunity for a set number of rounds
"Power word locate" for Red Robes - lists the current room name of every player online - lengthy cooldown attached
"Power word cripple" for Black Robes - save vs spell or have increased damage taken, minus concentration and fumble chance applied

I think the white robe and black robe spells compete nicely for their perspective rolls there, damage vs protection. However, given the red robes variety is a utility only spell whereas the other the have both PvE and PvP functionality.

I'd suggest Power Word Blast. The spell would be an area affect with an at level or cl - 5 damage affect similar to casting a single target damage spell. The secondary affect would be a knockdown without lag (useful against channels, dancing, stances, etc.,) and a save vs spell to apply a secondary bashmod effect that would make it easier for abilities such as bash, charge, etc., to make an afflicted player or mob sit on their ass again.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Rednax on October 09, 2016, 10:15:40 AM
In its current form I just think stun lasts too long. For a spell that completely removes you from the fight, if half of your group mates get stunned in PK, it's basically already over.

Maybe making stun wear off much faster would be better. Perhaps make it so after a few rounds you're no longer disoriented, but have other negative effects on you for the following rounds. Additionally, you could make stun fail against already stunned targets.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Neal on October 09, 2016, 07:46:59 PM
Everytime you save against a spell, you gain bonus save against the same spell.

40℅ gain on each consecutive saves. The immunity starts to wear out after 1d4 rounds from the last save at -20% per round.

So 5 mage casting the same spell in a couple of rounds will find it really inefficient.

Or another idea
Cast "power word stun" melee/caster/no argument

If you choose target, you get higher chance of landing on the chosen class type. The non chosen type is not affected.
With no argument, chance to land is reduced by 50℅ but lands on every one.

If I'm understanding this correctly it would be the same idea as diminishing returns most mmorgp games use. Ie if you get disabled, the next disable affect on you won't last full length so on and so on. Prevents chain stunning with classes that can target disable etc. And gives the target a fighting chance. So I like this idea but let's say you get stunned, then you get bonus saves against same spell for whatever duration you deem necessary.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jorake on October 10, 2016, 12:40:18 PM
I like the idea of stun not lasting as long. 3 rounds max is what it should be. That would be so perfect. Making veil of ice last longer would also be a great thing. I also liked the channeling idea.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Episte on October 10, 2016, 11:41:03 PM
I like the idea of stun not lasting as long. 3 rounds max is what it should be. That would be so perfect. Making veil of ice last longer would also be a great thing. I also liked the channeling idea.

Okay, so after a long new york minute I'm semi functional on the computer side of interaction....I like your post sir.
I also seem to be making yet another crappy formatted post or potentially trollish post, however this one isn't aiming for humor and is trying to be helpful....

I'ld honestly give the feedback consider removing veil of ice.  Make iceskin (guild spell if i recall correctly) an optional legend rank.  Give iceskin (as legend rank purchase) half durability/duration of iceskin to all and make it AURA / divine.  You might need to actually quarter it but as I remember iceskin's duration is a bit long so maybe shave half the duration off iceskin's base off the top (prelegend), so that legend halving of it would be appropriate. 

In terms of nerfing stun, I'm of the sort that kinda expects it to be gone, yet will miss it even though I don't have it.  However veil of ice absolutely sucks (maybe not so much with 8-14 slots and autohaste and magical unicorns and ponies dancing atop a perfectly microwaved burrito)....  It's never memmed or casted when it would save lives, and when it is casted it's always a waste.  Even a fixed 1-2 tick duration on it would be better than the "This spell lasts 2-3 pulses or up to 8 seconds" current reality.

Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: btown on October 11, 2016, 06:00:48 AM
Make legend druid iceskin immune stun,  that will in effect make druids counters to the mages.  druids tornado ftw!

Also bring healing cloud back to its former glory

But if you do that u better give healers something!
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Tajs on October 11, 2016, 07:01:22 AM
I'll advocate removal of spell mod ranks/effects (maybe keep a few elite items) and replace them with spell damage done by 5%.

Why? I think spell mod is too powerful, because it both affects damage and disables, since a failed saves equals full damage (for most spells) vs half damage if saved. In that sense it seems more balanced to me, to deal higher damage, that's easier to save against than the actual save being hard to land. Also it would balance out the area disables to an extend making them easier to save against.

I like ideas of making veil of ice more viable, also maybe give legend free action a chance to remove stun? like cleanse.
Or if you want 3 different kind of "power word", an idea could be to make the white robe one somewhat akin to Freedom or even make them aligned like holy word?
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: corey on October 11, 2016, 02:59:59 PM
Channeled, must be engaged, damage has a chance to break it, target limit of 3 (random), same chance of working.

This gives it a crippling in large scale pvp, keeps it viable in small scale pvp, keeps it viable in pve.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jarrad on October 11, 2016, 03:40:41 PM
I am confused by this whole anti stun thread. For the first wipe ever people can buy free action rank. If you are getting raped by stuns go and buy the counter rank...
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Zozen on October 11, 2016, 08:33:38 PM
I guess that solves it. Case closed. Next thread.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Tajs on October 11, 2016, 11:36:32 PM
Correct me if wrong, but free actions does not equal immune stun afaik?
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Charlie on October 12, 2016, 06:33:15 AM
Also.... it appears to me the save vs spell doesn't really affect stun, or if it does it must be a serious flawed math equation that determines if you get stunned, wearing -8/-9 doesn't seem to really help vs stun compared to -0 or -1.

It all appears to be random, so are you sure the save vs spell in regards to power Word stun is working as intended?

This also in regards to Mobiles casting pws, it seems to hit way more often even from lower lvl mobs.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Zozen on October 12, 2016, 09:18:28 AM
Correct me if wrong, but free actions does not equal immune stun afaik?

Woops guess the case is still open.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: gnua on October 12, 2016, 09:34:24 AM
Channeled, must be engaged, damage has a chance to break it, target limit of 3 (random), same chance of working.

This gives it a crippling in large scale pvp, keeps it viable in small scale pvp, keeps it viable in pve.

All great suggestions. My favorite of them is the 'must be engaged' requirement.  Dk gaze impair, and barbarian assail require engaged and severely nerf its pk power vs people who do not want to fight while remaining viable in pve. 
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: btown on October 12, 2016, 09:55:13 AM
I am pretty sure DK gaze will paralyze as long as the target is in combat regardless if the DK is in combat or not.

Also DK gaze will charm things that are not in combat,  dks rule
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jorake on October 13, 2016, 10:58:05 AM
I actually like the 3man cap on stun. Group size is 8, so you can no longer shut down a whole group.

I also agree with the channeling. If you land it on a good target then you can't do shut ese after. After 3 rounds a check could be made to see if you come out of it or it last for a max of 2 rounds longer.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Loretta on October 15, 2016, 02:12:19 PM
I dont understand why weaklings whine about nightmare/pws power. Its the only chance for you to even battlefield. How else are you going to beat 5-8 oblit tanks and nobash lim damage healers?
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: raf on October 15, 2016, 08:49:52 PM
I think there are a lot of things that are way overpowered on mages that should not exist in the game as it is, the biggest is PWS. And this is coming from someone who has played with the spell and had the buffest mages in several eras.

But this is just one issue with mages, there are others such as tether which is just wrong on so many levels as relocate on it's own is a seriously unbalanced spell, let alone with a basher attached to you.

Even so, I'm not advocating changing any of these because frankly it won't help the PK situation one bit. There are too many issues that one or two changes won't have any noticeable effect on the overall state of legendary characters.

I think short of gutting the whole legendary system, the best solution is still the flat damage reduction Player vs. Player. But it has to be drastic, 10% isn't going to cut it. Effectively you need to triple or quadruple the survivability of characters in PvP so it counters the overpowered state of legendary characters with such spells and abilities.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jorake on October 17, 2016, 05:37:18 AM
We have any updates as to what is going to happen with stun/nightmare?
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: remi on October 19, 2016, 03:05:48 PM
In a 8v8 fight if even 1 or 2 people are stunned in one group the fight is likely over with the spell in it's current state.


As someone else in a previous post recommended...
 
1) Lower the stun on pcs to 2 rounds and on a cast has a solid chance to land on average 2 members of an 8 man group. 
or
2) Lower stun on pcs to 3 rounds and on a cast has a solid chance to land on avergage ~1 member of an 8 man group


In any 8v8 fight --- if you take 1-2 members of that group out of play for 3 rounds you would have a huge advantage over that team.  (many pc's can be 1 or 2 rounded easily).  If the mage gets off 3 or 4 stuns in that fight and lands 3-6 total stuns thats MORE than enough to land to win a battle.



The spell shouldn't be "I win" button that you click or trigger 3 casts walk away from the keyboard and come back to split loot.
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Episte on October 19, 2016, 09:04:33 PM
Only trump can fix stun. The rest is  nightmare

http://fark.com/9338840/105409180 (http://fark.com/9338840/105409180)
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Jorquin on October 20, 2016, 04:34:18 AM
No updates. Don't expect any changes in the immediate future. I have no intention of short changing people who worked hard to get OP spells. Expect changes late wipe, whenever that is (not sure when that is).
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: btown on October 20, 2016, 05:26:45 AM
Don't short change them just inflate their money...............................
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Alecto on December 13, 2016, 08:09:51 PM
Was that in response to Brandon?  Seems a little too "on the nose..."
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Thymorical on January 05, 2017, 09:19:48 PM
Druid veil of ice buff is a good idea.. legendary veil of ice..
Title: Re: Stun and nightmare
Post by: Gramm on January 13, 2017, 11:34:24 PM
o lords of arctic we ask thee for a direct saves vs stun added to the game, to which end us lesser focused folk might actually fight dragons and be able to withstand the evil elite stunning mages of this game, we also heckle thee for nightmare to begin automatically releasing us after 4 battle rounds regardless of being in combat or not. do this and we will enjoy the fruits of your grey hair growing codewriting labours once again... or at least find a new reason to cry next "patch"

also having 2 less people in your group to save vs those stuns this wipe and in turn save your asses, seriously hurts. it makes them THATTT much buffer on top of them already being THAT much buffer...

or or or you could just make stun a guild spell too for immortal shits and giggles ?

in any event 100% agree needs a debuffing. there are so many different angles to consider when you alter something like this, but absolutely wont hurt to make stun land way less often and for nightmare to have same duration in and out of combat as well.

adding saves vs stun element to the game or attaching stun to saves vs spell gear (MOBS TOO) would be pretty damned cool. and open up some new fun to those of us that cant get a solid 8man group to kill some more fun dragon mobs or higher end zones also.

im not saying Its impossible, theres plenty of people on this mud that know how to autobot a healer from their phone or sky scout, or paladin, or druid even. but to literally get 8 PEOPLE together and do those really fun fights, is not always easy so i understand why folks do it, but personally as someone who likes to have 8 PEOPLE in the group and see what we can get done, stun is way too angry on dragons too lately. has been for full wipe + this wipe now. area disables in general are pretty dirty.... blastwave, stun, nightmare, even tent..  all of these spells can ruin your day on their own. but the stuns have been a bit much.

Its nice that people want a constant challenge so i understand why dragons received this angry stun buff to give them that once again, but maybe its time for those players to start submitting zone creation ideas, or help create those challenges for their friends even, this is one of those unique game environments where so many of you guys are brilliant at writing code and capable of creating zones that love this game, actually have the chance to contribute like that if you can find the time. maybe its just pipe dreams but there are so many
untold d and d stories... i get that a lot of this is pre cataclysm stuff, but wouldnt it be neat to maybe add POST catacalysmic side story zones in there?
at the very least im sure someone can fix whatever that zone was near pax thats been under construction for like how many wipes now? or ogreshield...  the current immortals have so much on their plate i wish i knew how to write code because i obviously love to sit and ponder about pointless shit that might be amusing if anyone has actually read this post all the way to this point here : )

im rambling again.. tldr


















or do if your stoned and bored, but to make this game balanced is a never ending battle, no matter what you do its going to not be 100% im not sure what your creation staff looks like, but i picture jorquin kam adepali keila and hoss dealing with all of our whining and trying to constantly make things right, and i hope im way off with my count lol because only 5 would be honestly rough but maybe its the new material that keeps us coming back. some will claim its the pk, but most of us know thats horseshit, we would mostly all come back for the social aspect regardless of pk or new zones necessarily, its the ability to log onto a realtime dungeons and dragons real time game that keeps a lot of us coming back, im not sure how many of you other guys play dungeons and dragons in real life, probably mostly all too old for that shit now but i still do and for those of you that used to, you have to admit it was awesome at some point, this game is just THAT exactly anytime you feel like logging on. The playerkilling aspect of the game is fun and absolutely the adrenaline gets going, but its not what makes or breaks the game for everyone, not anymore anyways considering the inability to properly balance it.

the best part is that only a couple of suckers that play immortals are the dungeonmasters for like over 100 of us, thank you by the way.
it was great to see a few of the guardians and higher immortals playing their characters actively the last couple of wipes. You deserve to enjoy the game with the rest of us too.

You can pretty much do whatever you want to this game except maybe making it ridiculously hard pve and pvp at the same time and people will always keep coming back. that being said pk doesnt ruin the game, overpking ruins the game. removing pk from the game would NOT completely destroy the game, but it would certainly chase off 25%-50% at least of it indefinitly.  I think people are getting a lot better at self control overall with their urges to go on a rapetheentiremudspree but thats the easiest solution if you want to abolish all foolish talk about removing pk, or unbalanced destruction of clans... just control yourselves. Once you have killed a crew if you want a real fight, let them come after you before you go after them again, the blitzkrieg tactic of once a week raids on a demoralized crew that is struggling to log the same numbers as your crew is what happens every wipe no matter who is winning the wipe.

Self control will make it more exciting for all of you that love pk, and also prevent it from being an excessive problem for the rest of us. And for someone like me personally who is in a couple of d and d groups, i would have a much easier time convincing them to play some d and d online for practice if not "conversion: to arctic if it didnt get so toxic with the pk and witchhunts for enemies.

man i do apologize, that all makes sense to me, hope it does for someone else.  (im not sure if this post fully belongs in this thread by the end of it) lol but i think it relates to the game in general + stun/nightmare...hail santa
Title: Area Spells: Proposed change for balance and tactics
Post by: Grimwar on March 04, 2017, 12:28:56 PM
How about if area spells worked differently, depending on if a target is specified and or not, and if the target is in combat or not?

If a target is specified, then the area spell will affect the target, the target's group/followers, AND (or chance of, or save vs?) anyone engaged in combat with the target (either attacking the target or being attacked by the target).

If a target is not specified, then the area spell will affect those not in the caster's group, AND (as above) those engaged in combat with those affected.

These changes could help tweak use of area spells (clearly still an advantage as a "first strike" but less advantageous for continual spamming) or, conversely, counter its use by engaging a caster's group early on.