Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jorquin on July 29, 2016, 09:00:23 AM

Title: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorquin on July 29, 2016, 09:00:23 AM
I just wanted to throw up a quick post to outline the main initiatives on the cards for the immediate future. We're committed to reinvigorating the game we all love and thought a good starting point would be to lay out some of the plans publicly.

1.  The level of staff intervention in mortal affairs has been quite high in recent years. We intend to move away from this model and let players sort out their differences where ever possible. This is not a "free pass to be a douche-bag", but we're committed to rebuilding bridges rather than burning them. As a gesture of good faith the entire ban list on Arctic and these forums has been cleared.

2.    Recent changes to weapons stats will be reverted back to their previous state. While these changes were made with the best intentions in mind (better balance), they have proven to be widely unpopular. Expect this to happen in the near future.

3.    There will be changes to items, particularly around reverting the "standardization" of +damage items. Losing the ability to tailor your equipment to your specific niche play style has been lamented by players as many different items were standardized to be nearly identical. Expect this to change.

4.     We want to create more transparency and to a degree, consultation with players. We want to make decisions that will create the greatest level of enjoyment for the greatest number of people. For us to achieve this your opinion is important, I'll be using the discussion board quite a bit to chat with people about things. Don't mistake this to mean your personal opinion(s) will dictate what decisions are made. In the end we will do what we believe will deliver the best result for everyone, not you and your friends. We also intend to provide more news updates to keep you up to date with changes made, probably in mildly more detail than previously.

5.     We want to find more contributors. If you believe you can contribute to Arctic then contact a member of staff, just make sure have the best intentions of the game at heart before putting your foot forward.


That's all I've got for now. We're looking to do a lot of this quite quickly and probably follow up with a pwipe. Given this has all happened quite fast there is no set date, but expect an announcement providing more clarity in the next month or so.

Feel free to post your opinions - happy to hear them.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Remo on July 29, 2016, 09:06:38 AM
Thank You all.
Rod
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: breiner on July 29, 2016, 09:19:48 AM
1. Reducing the level of immortal invervention is definitely a nice move. It has seemed for a very long time that as soon as you engaged in pk there would be penalties to one or both sides.

2. Weaponbalance. Bringing back diversity would be nice. But from the hundreds of weapons I have lored so far it doesn't have to be a widescale change. Some weapons are fine as 2d6++ or 2d7++. The changes did not bring in balanced characters though, and most certainly not balance in pk.
If one were to contemplate an 8 vs 8 battle it would still be over in seconds and individual actions apart from initial triggers matters little. If anyone has a heureka moment this is one thing I'd like to see fixed without ruining pve.

5. Which kind of contribution? Coding? Creation?
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Patpat on July 29, 2016, 11:03:29 AM
woot @ jorquin
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorquin on July 29, 2016, 11:26:40 AM
@breiner:
I agree damage in player vs player situations is a bit out of whack and is something to think about. As for contributions we're always looking for creators and I'm happy to spend time helping people learn. In a broader sense even people who generate ideas, have time to run events (whatever they may be) or whatever else helps make Arctic more awesome.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Rafo on July 29, 2016, 12:05:19 PM
I'll come back and drag Kam with me, kicking and screaming.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Master Mike on July 29, 2016, 02:13:07 PM
Finally. Bring old sets back too. Us low knowledge players loved them..
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Bryton on July 29, 2016, 02:33:29 PM
Looks like I will be installing Arctic once again! My wife is going to be so mad.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kadaj on July 29, 2016, 02:34:28 PM
I would just like to point out, within 12 hours of the announcement of new management, the numbers have doubled online. I believe these changes really bring hope to a game that desperately needs it. Someone who has the mindset that it is still 1995 was just not working. I'm sure Hoss has some great intentions, but let's face it. He's not a very good people person.....at all. Social skills are required to maintain good relations between staff and players. With that said, I welcome our two new, active Overseer's and hopefully usher in a new age of change. 

Some things that I think could be addressed(sorry for not waiting for the discussion board):

Bringing the old sets back: easily loaded sets that didn't have a gigantic impact on the game and gave something solo players could easily load.

Change the existing sets to have their original stats: many of the sets were perfectly fine and rewarding once you finally achieved 6/6. However once you lost even one single piece, it could take a week to get it back and you're stats would suffer severely without that piece.

Skills: Some skills just take a ridiculously long time to train and it deters players from making X class. A shaman having to hunt down every spell required AND train 12 or so skills to superb vs a cleric who trains bandage, turn, and meditate/scribe and load a few spellbooks.  Skills that have a very long cooldown and seem to train at a reduced rate are just crazy and time consuming more than anything. It's become very tedious.

Decay timers: Some items take 30 seconds to load and can have a fairly big impact on characters. A wrist buckler comes to mind, sure it's not that great on it's on, but when it takes 30 seconds from login to check it, it should decay way faster than something with a similar stat that takes an entire high lvl zone of 6+ people to acquired.

Ranks: I would like to perhaps see more ranks of an individual rank. Ie: if I want more than 4 int ranks or dex ranks I should be able to purchase them. It's a toss up between gearing towards a stat and changing some gear with ranks. If I want to spend my hard earned rank points on something I should be able to.

Leveling: The experience from 27-30 is a really huge increase and could possibly be adjusted.

Stats: Let's face it, there are literally three races in the game right now. If you aren't a wipe rushed character or a gully dwarf, minotaur or dargonesti, you aren't shit. Although it's fun to mix things up and add a little spiciness to being legend, being it almost a requirement to be one of these three races sucks. With the str changes on weapons hopefully being reverted it won't be that big of a deal, but it still has a huge impact on the game so far.



Weapons are being adjusted and this is a huge step in the right direction.

Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jang Yoo Sung on July 29, 2016, 08:16:01 PM
this + a pwipe will definitely bring back alot of players imo
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on July 30, 2016, 01:12:09 AM
sounds great. 

thanks to the old staff and good luck to the new
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Pyder on July 30, 2016, 03:19:27 AM
I'm in! :)
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kronos on July 30, 2016, 09:39:46 AM
Well, some of us said we would not be back until these exact things happened. I think more than a few of us will answer the bell and RISE to the occasion.

-JTFson
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Thymorical on July 30, 2016, 10:32:19 AM
Its true even i am unbanned. I welcome all to use my website fourskulls.org for any arctic related pk logs or posting how to guides aiming for non arcric related things.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kadaj on July 30, 2016, 05:06:24 PM
Wait, if you are back NOW......who the hell has been controlling all those LoS guys?!? Have your bots become self aware and zone on their own?! Skynet......terminator......its happening!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Malaki on July 30, 2016, 06:34:04 PM
-Up the group limit back to 12 or increase it to 15.  So when alot of people are on you don't have to be singled out for certain zones, everyone can roll through.
-Keep the updated rank xp system, maybe add more individual ranks, and no limit the the amount of ranks of a certain type you can buy.
-Like others have said go back to a older version with all the sets, and stuff from a few years back, and the items and weapons and character, and race stats were.
-Allow pk or Waring, but also add or make a dedicated zone or arena for it that you can que for or sign up.  Cant remember how long ago but signing up teams to go in and do battle in a small zone was so much fun.  And maybe even set up a barter or cost and its divided between the winners.
-Take a look at the decay timers a bit and see what its purpose is for.  I don't mind having items destroyed from damage and zoneing, and having to constantly repair them so they don't, but the decay timers have always been annoying on gear, and other items as well like spells n things.  Not saying do away with it entirely cause the rush and speed of studying things in time or having to go reload something is viable game play.
-Take feedback on the different guilds to tweak the learning demand of skilling for legendary.  I know Ive rage quit atleast 2 wipes cause assail would never hit supurb on my barb.  Mainly some people play 100 percent solo so legendary is off limits for some guilds/classes.
-Go back to long multi year long wipes, but implement chaos days or months of chaos where player base is restored to the previous months afterwards.
-Look at adjusting the vault costs or inventory limit for us Hoarders that want to collect and loot everything to sell to the vendor and lore.
-remove a limit of members for clan's so everyone with their 10 multis can be added without alot of cost so you can communicate with everyone easily on clan tell without having to track 100 multies and aliases
-Implement most or some of these and wipe, with a well planned and annouced wipe/rush date.  With some Chaos days before hand and Competitions.

Crazy:
Do an open vote for allowing/disallowing variations of:
-Botting
-Multing
These are not the same thing, though are sometimes related.

-Implement room numbers as output in some low to mid zones and towns for new and old players alike to easily map out and explore places they haven't been before.
-Explain and show some examples of what different content creation and work is and requires from scratch to turned on zone in the test instance, and open it up for all to help.
-Create a single signon (googleauth or some opensource thing), that is also linked to friends lists so you can see if your friend is online even if their on some other character.  An opt in thing of course but would be nice.  Some type of evolution beyond opt email.

Cant believe im actually thinking about playing again.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gramm on July 30, 2016, 07:05:01 PM
Glad to hear you guys are forming up and making it happen, tough job for just 2 to tackle on their own id think!
Excited to see what you all bring to the table and hopefully you are able to lure back a few from retirement and league of legends :p
If you get new players asking about groups, send me your greenest and i'll gladly break them in!
Hope to see some other folks who have creation skills to step up and demonstrate! New content is always fun.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kir on July 30, 2016, 09:49:49 PM
1.  Healing cloud should be restored to its prior awesomeness. It was one of the few spells that allowed pk battles to go on for more than 1-2 rounds.
2.  Obviously you guys are already fixing the nerfs to weapons and other +dams which is elite, thank you
3.  Sets should be scaled back to 2-3 years ago when people could pop nice sets on low numbers
4.  Shield of huma: for the love of god make it autohaste again please!! classic item..
5.  Item % loads were recently nerfed last wipe in certain zones which caused me to quit. Running hct 50 times a week is not my idea of fun.
6.  Strength requirements for weapons will be switched back too I hope?
7.  Advertise arctic perhaps? raise money from arctic website and buy addspace on nerd.websites to get in new blood? I'd donate.
8.  Find new and interesting ways to keep players around, i always thought tournaments were super fun and got people involved
9.  Allow tim to pk wild unknowns without being deleted?
10 Give smaller clans the opportunity to compete with bigger clans in pvp. Put big spells in available places for the lil guy.
11 Get help! recruit new zone creators based upon creativity and ideas not based on who kisses the most ass
12 Only allow certain and trusted imms to have port access
13 Thanks to the new imm crew for taking the time to bring this elite game back from the brink!!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: reed23 on July 31, 2016, 12:31:23 AM
1 - restore healing cloud to what it was before for pk and also healing purposes.
2 - change group sizes back to 10.  Last wipe, we had many get left on the sidelines and subsequently fade away quickly due to being left on the bench.
3 - fix holy word load rate and restore thunderbolt book to uth lich.  Our 2nd and 3rd healers rarely legend because of the horrible drop rate of hw.  I know several red robes that still aren't legend this current wipe in smaller clans because of the removal of lich book.
4 - restore cyan book loads to previous wipes.  Doing cyan for a healing mist book is wrong on so many levels.
5 - give some love to the grindy legend skills.  Of the classes I have played, the following come to mind: camp, wildfire, arcane barrier, sharpen, mend, lore, assail, (im not familiar with shamans)etc.
6 - I'd love to see haven become a rent location again.
7 - finding locations of players needs to be addressed.  Last wipe teleport was no longer available to cast on a non-grouped person.  Restore t cl requirement to port to people.  Clairvoyance hasn't worked for wipes.  Restore to old days.  Track could use some love. 
8 - restore legendary items to what they were for decades.  Humas, orbs, nobashes, etc.
9 - bring back old sets such as armaboro, blue sanction, black dragon hide, shoal sets, swordsmans and all the other non-public knowledge sets.
10 - bring back tantalon area!!!!!  Wtf was it removed to begin???
11 - I agree with kir, make top tier spells available to all through low percentage means.  Shards quest was cool in the past.
12 - xp tables could be slightly adjusted for lvls 27 through 30 to make less grindy.  On a similar note, having some bonuses for retaining 1x would be cool to incentivize players to reach and retain that threshhold.
13 - restore load percentages to previous wipes for % load items.
14 - use the abyss function rather than the delete button as much as possible.
15 - address new staff's current views on botting and multiing.  Specifically on botting, the use of in-depth scripts.
16 - take a look at hps for all classes.  Scouts I think could use some love if their hps are still coming in less than thiefs.

Best of luck to the new staff and thanks in advance for your willingness to give up your time to make arctic continue on!!!


Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Pyder on July 31, 2016, 12:33:44 AM
1.  Healing cloud should be restored to its prior awesomeness. It was one of the few spells that allowed pk battles to go on for more than 1-2 rounds.
2.  Obviously you guys are already fixing the nerfs to weapons and other +dams which is elite, thank you
3.  Sets should be scaled back to 2-3 years ago when people could pop nice sets on low numbers
4.  Shield of huma: for the love of god make it autohaste again please!! classic item..
     * For the love of god, yes... Couldn't belive what I heard earlier this year when I came back after a 9 year break! Crazy ppl.
Quote
5.  Item % loads were recently nerfed last wipe in certain zones which caused me to quit. Running hct 50 times a week is not my idea of fun.
6.  Strength requirements for weapons will be switched back too I hope?
     * One would hope so!
Quote
7.  Advertise arctic perhaps? raise money from arctic website and buy addspace on nerd.websites to get in new blood? I'd donate.
8.  Find new and interesting ways to keep players around, i always thought tournaments were super fun and got people involved
9.  Allow tim to pk wild unknowns without being deleted?
10 Give smaller clans the opportunity to compete with bigger clans in pvp. Put big spells in available places for the lil guy.
11 Get help! recruit new zone creators based upon creativity and ideas not based on who kisses the most ass
12 Only allow certain and trusted imms to have port access
13 Thanks to the new imm crew for taking the time to bring this elite game back from the brink!!
     * Indeed, much appriciated!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on July 31, 2016, 01:11:42 AM
limited items and rent decay should get looked at.

i have limited items that loaded on the 2nd day of the wipe still on my warrior.  and i quit playing in early march.  this should not happen.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorquin on July 31, 2016, 03:06:49 AM
My input / responses to various posts:

Sets - Bringing back more of the unique sets seems popular and is probably a good idea. I think some sets (aka armaboro) could use a push in the right direction as well. They provide a good avenue for people who don't have time to maintain low limit equipment to stay relevant.

Skills -  I agree some classes get the shaft on training, particularly shamans. It's something to think about but not pressing.

Xp to level - The experience required to level at higher levels (27-30) is a bit tedious and probably disadvantages casual players more than anything else. I'm not sure how this is managed, but cutting the required exp by 10% or so for those levels might not be a bad move.

Ranks & stats - At the moment you can buy 4 of any one attribute. If people think that's too few we could probably push it - push it real good. Not sure to what though, 6 maybe? Most of the other ranks will probably stay the same as they seem to be in a fairly good place right now.

Races - While cool in concept, exotic races in their present state provide too much of benefit. I think the stats of classic races are in a pretty good place though. Once weapon changes are rolled back having 17 strength warriors isn't too crippling and forces people to make choices about their ranks and eq, which is good. Exotic races stats probably need to be brought in line with other races and have "quality of life" benefits instead of numerical power, i.e. move_regen, hp_regen, immune_poison, or various other things.

Decay timers - Will be looked at in due course, but as it would have to be done on a case by case basis there's better "bang for buck" in terms of effort expenditure right now. The bangle of awesomeness lasting an extra week isn't a strong encouragement for people to return to Arctic.

Item load %'s As above.

Vault / rent / inventory costs - Being realistic, vault and inventory costs are fine. Rent cost in general is probably worth a look given our aging playerbase is increasingly time poor and have less time to keep their coins up. Re-adding the ability to rent in some smaller cities (Haven, Newport, etc) could be looked at if people care.

Group limits - I've written and rewritten this four times and now I've just deleted it. There's pro's and con's to increasing, keeping or lowering the group limit. It affects encounter difficulty, player inclusion (or exclusion), encouragement to fill your group with automatons, game/clan politics, social dynamics and a lot of other factors. It's a huge discussion in itself which I'm going to leave for now. I don't think it makes or breaks things either way though.

Classic items - I've actually had an overwhelming number of people from every corner of the Arctic community bring this up. There's clearly an appetite for returning various "classic" items back to their historic state, so I'd have to say it's on the agenda. I'll comment that good aligned tanks having access to an item that outstrips those available to the other alignments is unfair.

Weapon weights / strength - Covered in attributes, weapon weights will be reverted when those changes are rolled back.

Access to big spells for little guys - I agree this is an issue and will be considered. Expect something to happen in this space.

Spell loads in general - Will be looked at. Personally I'd like to see a "chaos ball" book added back in similar to Lord Noom in the 90's, where you'll almost always get some mid level spell, or the occasional high level spell... but every now and then someone wins the lottery. After all, gambling is fun... right? Food for thought.

Healing cloud - This spell was fairly overpowered, I'm not sure it should be put back to its insanely buff state. The fact it was mentioned this spell somewhat counter-balanced the huge damage players can output is a clear indication it was vastly overpowered. I'd prefer to consider other options, like players receiving a flat -15% damage dealt when damaging other players, rather than boosting cloud. I just made that idea up and I don't know if its possible, but you get my point.

Tournaments, immortals and creation - We've already received an influx people wanting to contribute and we're happy to give people a shot. I'll be breaking people off projects on creation to prove they can deliver and am making time to help them out, so hopefully we should get some new content coming in. We'd like to run events as well but they're time consuming to coordinate, so it will depend how many of the people who put their hand up to help actually go on to do useful things. I'm also trying to finish off the zone I've been working on for far too long, which hopefully should be ready relatively soon.

Locating players - This one is a funny one. Pk in general has dropped significantly, so i'm not sure how critical it really is to fix. I agree that right now it's incredibly difficult to track people down, but facilitating trash teleporting isn't the answer.

Class HP - I think these are all fine except scouts who might need a bump.

The Abyss, deletion and long walks along the beach - We're looking to rebuild bridges and bring more players into the fold. Expect decisions in this area to be in line with that mentality, which includes not alienating players for making mistakes. That said, this door swings both ways. If you consistently act in a manner that is deemed to be overly toxic or poisonous to the general population there will be consequences. A conversation would take place about the issue before it progressed to that stage.

There are some points I've skipped but I think this post is long enough already.

Thanks everyone for your input, hopefully more people share their views!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Pyder on July 31, 2016, 06:40:45 AM
I rented in Haven all my mud carreer :) .... Please bring that back! And also other small cities for that matter.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Alecto on July 31, 2016, 09:18:53 AM
I will say that changing the starting cities made some newbie areas (perhaps most significantly, Haven, but also Vingaard and Nevermind/Garret) useless wastes of space.  Who is going to spend 3-4 tics to get to Haven to run the forest? Yes, it is kinda close to Solace, but not close enough to warrant a road trip at level 1.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Thymorical on July 31, 2016, 09:53:50 AM
Restore inns for us shady people to rent away from the newbs.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Slunt on July 31, 2016, 02:31:09 PM
I check this forum maybe once a month to see whats going on, I am excited about the change and potential fixes.

For me and my availability and commitment level I think 2 changes could help me find some time to play:

1. Multiplaying,
2.Lower xp tables

I know multiplaying has many challenges but I would think some compromises and regulating could be atleast be explored.

Best of luck to the new Overlords

-Dan
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on July 31, 2016, 06:44:09 PM
Some concerns, ideas, questions (kinda all over the place):

Multiing/Botting
While i understand these are two different things, they are not necessarily mutually exclusive either.  From a competitive perspective, in a game with limited resources, any person(s) multiing/botting or associates of those multiing/botting receive an unfair advantage over others who do not multi/bot.

I think having a clear stance from the staff on whether botting/multiing will be allowed and to what degree is important.

If it is not allowed, how does the staff plan to address the issue?  Multiing/botting has continued to be prevalent in Arctic and people who circumvent the system using proxies (or multiple devices with different ips like home internet connection + cell phone) should not be rewarded. Not everyone who plays this game has the technological savvy or the monetary freedom to purchase and maintain multiple proxies to try to veil their rule breaking.  Furthermore, inconsistencies in punishment can lead to mistrust and accusations of favoritism which is not conducive of a healthy player/staff relationship.

Item Decay
I have found after renting for several months that certain items I have do not appear to decay in rent.  One limited item in particular (while not necessarily game changing) had no rent decay timer.  This to me is another serious issue.  There is absolutely no reason I can think of that limited items should be immune to rent decay.  This removes already limited resources from the game as long as a person can maintain their rent.  While unlimited items do not particularly matter if they rent decay or not.  An item that is limited with no rent decay could potentially disappear for an entire wipe.  This should be either changed or at least explained why it remains.

Legendary Ranks/Skills
These may need to be looked at more closely but does not need immediate attention.  Some of the changes to scale them back this wipe may have made certain legendary ranks practically useless (one example i can think of is legendary strike).  I think maybe all legendary ranks should be reviewed and tweaked or changed, so that each rank is useful and worth the cost.

Inns
Please bring back old locations.  Having less places to save and leave the game does not in my opinion add any value to the game.

Pk locating skills/spells
While pk may be less prevalent in Arctic today, it is still a draw for some.  Some of the harsh penalties levied against players who enjoy pk (siteban, deletion, other forms of harassment) could be one reason that pk is not as frequently seen today.  Having a method of locating players effectively is essential to non-random pk.  Furthermore, having an effective method of tracking down the murderer who slayed you is even more essential in a mud which allows pk.  Improving location spells like how clairvoyance used to work, or improving the ability to track may be useful.  Another idea may be restricting the ability to recall and limit the amount of movement a player can do after engaging in pk or perhaps successfully killing someone (considering the mud is so vast and there are so many restrictions on location skills/spells it can be nearly impossible to retaliate).

Disabling skills/spells in PVP
Another thing that may be addressed in the future.  While damage may be out of wack in pvp situations, if damage is reduced, players should still retain the ability to effectively kill players from a balance perspective.  This may require some tweaks to disabling, additions to disabling skills/spells.  Being able to easily escape death in large scale pk creates boring logs.  No equipment changes hands.  Previous idea of limiting ability to recall or player movement after becoming an aggressor may also be a solution to this.

Super Mages Please
Bring back Power Word Stun potentially replacing Blastwave and increase Prismatic Spray damage effectiveness and Increase Nightmare effectiveness. Maybe balance by limiting the amount of times the spell can be cast per tic, targets it can hit, increasing lag duration for these spells (2 rounds instead of 1?), some other form of cooldown, or combination of these.  P.S.  I love the idea of the chaos ball book, perhaps better on a deathload or non-locateable mob(i can see some very nasty player interactions taking place although this may be what some want).

Fix pet ranks and Quest system
Self explanatory, maybe add a pet for Druids.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: kilians on July 31, 2016, 06:46:17 PM
I am personally ecstatic about this new takeover and changes, and cannot wait to see things moving in the directions being discussed could not ask for a better time to come back to the game after my break :D
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gramm on August 01, 2016, 02:25:50 AM
Some of these ideas people are having are great, kinda stoked to see how you tackle some of them.
Here are a few things ive noticed personally and or have thought of.
-stuns are way too powerful,  ct king is what i would expect frosty to stun like

-healing cloud is very unreliable with this silly % chance of landing idea. even 100% landing rate at 60% of current healing strength would be at least something you can count on. prelegend healing cloud is basically cure serious that lands one in 3 rounds now seemingly...which is a waste of an 8th slot.

-xak needs to be revamped!(bring back mishikals white potion too!)

-quests seem to be broken for paladin rose order , and all legend mobs for all classes

-take on a few people that are capable of writing zones maybe to lend hand! ie. GYP!

-i think perhaps adding precise directions to zones that level 25 characters can try to solo would be a really good
idea personally ie. solamnic encampment, que kul, araton, boku, bandits, solamnic outpost to  encourage newer players to get out and learn a little how to do things outside of major towns.

-definitely use the abyss BEFORE the delete button, that was really abused, i cant think of any good reason to immediately delete someones character unless they literally email aristox a dick pic or something.

-raise the limit on some items maybe, it sucks when there is only 3 of an item and someone has 1 or 2 on a backup char or deep rented as eddie stated without a decay timer on them seemingly.

- make things decay at 10x the speed in rent perhaps and deeprenting wont be as rough

-train a noob, every single one of you older players and imms and retired folk and anyone who ever enjoyed arctic mud, train a noob. just do it.

-if you fix it... they will play. thanks for committing to working with us on things like weapon stats. and if there's anyway for your average joe on mud like myself to help at all let us know!

-how many of the people asking to bot, would rack up limited items on their 5 chars? that is the question i ask you all... leaving what for the rest of the real players? (maybe people can register a char as an actual bot, and all bots would be restricted to shop gear only?) better than nothing!!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on August 01, 2016, 08:40:02 AM
gramm is right.  maybe its time to remove locate from the game and make almost all items no_limit, low % loads. 

then maybe rent decay wouldnt even have to be a thing.  limited items loaded on the first day of the wipe and still being rented 7+ months later is seriously broken. 


Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: corey on August 01, 2016, 09:52:20 AM
gramm is right.  maybe its time to remove locate from the game and make almost all items no_limit, low % loads. 

then maybe rent decay wouldnt even have to be a thing.  limited items loaded on the first day of the wipe and still being rented 7+ months later is seriously broken.

I had suggested this a long time ago and honestly I think it would make the Arctic community better in general.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gramm on August 01, 2016, 10:24:15 AM
just reiterating a good idea corey : ) the truest way to defeat deeprent, is to punish decay times in rent.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: merk on August 01, 2016, 01:18:04 PM
Hi, a long time returning player here and sort of an outsider, but I thought I offer a viewpoint that i don't think has been addressed .

Before we make any more drastic changes, does arctic collect any statistics/measurements around gameplay.

This is just a random list i thought of -- there's probably a ton more interesting stats than this.



If we aren't collecting such statistics, I would strongly encourage the immortals to start collecting this type of data and to make it transparent to the community. I think it'll help make better decisions --

For example ---
if we are limit items to % load, would this increase the "active" eq in the game?
if we are creating new zones, what type of zone and which level of zone should we make?
if we want to change group sizes, what affect would this have on the number of people in a group per session?

As stated, I think if we want to benefit the most number of players in the game, we should use stats to measure this and use this as a basis to communicate decisions being made.

It's much harder for reasonable players to gripe against data-backed decisions.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Dyl on August 01, 2016, 03:21:31 PM
ArcticMUD Business Intelligence edition was slated to be released after Lube 2.1
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: snax on August 01, 2016, 06:21:54 PM
I happened upon forums today.  I have decided I'm probably not ever going to be as calm and normal as a normal person.  This doesn't make me a bad person.  I am petitioning someone who is higher up to consider giving me building priviledges with extremely limited read privileges while still being willing to help me fix/tweak/explain specs.  Schallsea never came into being, but I think if someone is willing to humor a mostly-ignore-randy but let-him-build-a-zone request, that I actually am willing to make several contributions in the forthcoming wipe.  I don't plan on logging in to zone again, but I am willing to beg/solicit a building slot.  (Note: when I play this game I go from 0-60 in under 2 seconds) (crazy = 60) (So, if someone who is a higher imm can create a circumstance officially or unofficially where I could write a zone and maybe get help for small parts of it, I'ld like to do that.)


 [0 desire for meta-game glory, 0 powertripping, 100% just throw out some ideas, write edescs, oedescs, rdescs, etc and get help with a few clutch specs/procs]
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Blobble on August 01, 2016, 07:09:09 PM
hahahha What the bapt did I just read!? Good Lord
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gramm on August 01, 2016, 07:26:33 PM
its a trap!!!!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Hoodoo on August 02, 2016, 01:18:43 PM
Minor request:   fix  Archimedes zone links. 

Thank you for considering all of the requests for unbapting the game listed above.   Botting/multiing should still be responded to with bricks to the face, but I generally love the other ideas and Jorquin's response.  Look forward to perhaps playing again, after my mortgage closes.

Jason
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 03, 2016, 06:55:22 AM
I liked the idea Gramm had. Register your bot. Make them all chaotic something. Don't use NO limited gear on it.

I'll be honest. I end up multing every wipe. I've never had a bot. But I have played two chars at once. It's something that can't be stopped really. Hell. You can't even ban someone from the game anymore because of proxies and etc.

So let's try this registration thing maybe for a couple months. See how it goes. It allows those who want to play 2 chars but doesn't know how or doesn't want to get into trouble the chance to do what 100% of every clan does.

Daniel used to multi like a mother bapter! And look where he's at now!😜
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: blackmagus on August 03, 2016, 08:05:16 AM
I believe using a single multi at any given time should be allowable in zoning only. If someone uses a multi or a bot for PK then they should be warned/abyssed/deleted/banned, in that order.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: lurker on August 03, 2016, 09:27:47 AM
I believe using a single multi at any given time should be allowable in zoning only. If someone uses a multi or a bot for PK then they should be warned/abyssed/deleted/banned, in that order.

I thought part of the new regime was LESS immortal intervention. Rules like the above require a lot of interpretation and enforcement.

For example, is it "using a multi or bot to pk" if you get attacked while zoning (and using a "legal" multi, as per your rule) and you kill the attacker? Does it matter if you leave your second multi afk or not? What if you PK with a single character while benefiting from having a multi online elsewhere for information gathering, or holding gear, or something.

IMO such rules should be avoided. They just create hard feelings when enforced in a way other than the most obvious interpretation.

Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Hoodoo on August 03, 2016, 10:54:12 AM
I am firmly against any legality of multiing.  This game is based around grouping, and the restriction against multiing forces people to include others.  Daniel's history of multiing shows the downsides:  at the time, rather than including others, he simply ran zones on cleric/ocean.  It went against the basic ideals of this game:  legal multiing turns a social game into a competitive scripting exercise.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: merk on August 03, 2016, 11:37:14 AM
Until someone can prove that multing or botting affects the number of people who want to be in a group with actual statistics, this is just going to be a endless debate.

I believe the more content available to people the better, the only way that can happen at the current population levels is to use or have the mud provide bots, since there's not enough people who can or want to group at all times.

It also allows people to learn the how to pop the stronger eq, which is better for the game since it'll introduce competition for them. Is the game really fun for CORE when they can 1v8 another clan? I think the game is better when there  are many strong clans and people can choose to play with any of them.

The discussions about having the best eq on bots -- is easily correctable -- go pk them. You'll easily find that a human behind a bot is still much better than a bot. Clans will still want to group with strong players -

My proposal --
For the last month before the wipe-- have like a mini-season and implement rules that are controversial. i.e. in this case allow multing/botting.
Run surveys, and post statistics afterwards (if you were collecting such things in the first place)  -- discuss.

People may be surprised with the results.



Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorquin on August 03, 2016, 05:02:24 PM
The botting/multi-ing debate is a really tricky one. There's positives and negatives to both sides of this argument. Here's my perspective from both angles. I'm not saying I lean in one way or the other, just giving you the honest truth.

Hoodoo's hard line approach isn't ideal. People are going to do it regardless and by taking the hard line approach we push people out the door. The reality is  50% (or more) of people either multi, bot, or have a close friend they play with who does one of the two. Dishing out punishment to them pushes people away because the person punished feels slighted and often stops playing, then their friends have one less buddy around which makes things less fun. It's also practically possible to effectively police this, and some people will get away with it. This then leads to allegations of favoritism as people say "But they're doing it, and you don't punish them! This is unfair!".

On the other hand, some people are fundamentally against the idea of multi-ing and botting, which means they'd likely stop playing if it were allowed. Opening the floodgates for legalizing the whole thing is a terrible idea because the game would be filled with groups containing 1 player and 7 automatons, and it would effectively become a solo RPG.  Having some sort of "regulated system" is also fraught with danger because it goes straight back to not being able to effectively and consistently police the rule which leads to allegations of favoritism.


In short, we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 03, 2016, 05:21:53 PM
While I believe you have a very good pulse on the multiing/botting issue, Jorquin, I think the do nothing approach only benefits those who break the rules and the hardliner opposition. We have seen a lot of people in here post their support for multiing/botting in some form as well.

It is clear some people will circumvent the system and as you also pointed out it is nearly possible to police.  I think the idea of allowing in addition character per player as the (legal) operating procedure only reduces the severe competitive advantage a player breaking the rules already has, given it is very likely some of these players will slip through the cracks.  The easiest way to regulate this would simply have a multiing player log his alternate from the same IP.

It seems to be a compromise that is far more fair then the it is what it is mentality.  I choose to play with a certain group of players already, forcing people to play with others they may or may not see eye to eye with is not an enticing production. So in some instances, like when my clan mass quit. Id rather quit then join forces with less desirable company. If I had a 2nd char id be able to have much greater versatility in zoning capabilities. Right now the only reasonable solo play character for my skill level is DK, Thief, and Shaman on a limited basis.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: gulca on August 03, 2016, 05:50:06 PM

Opening the floodgates for legalizing the whole thing is a terrible idea because the game would be filled with groups containing 1 player and 7 automatons, and it would effectively become a solo RPG.
In short, we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.

We won't know cause we never tested it. How bad is it compared to the recent decline?

remember the unlimited +dam? that was deem bad and got reverted. but at least we tried, looked at the results and made the informed decision.

I don't understand the fear of opening up multi/bot. plenty of players are willing to give it a few months try. if suddenly everyone stop grouping with other real players, we can put this subject to bed.

hoodoo and his 100 other anti multi buddies can log on after the trial.

Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 03, 2016, 06:05:27 PM
Before this devolves into a pro con of botting/multiing maybe we should receive an answer is it even open for discussion and consideration. Also using a separate thread if it is. Otherwise just put it to bed now.

Are the changes to healing going to be addressed? The functionality of mobs seemed to break with this new change while most player based healing stayed the same in effectiveness. Was this intended?
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorquin on August 03, 2016, 06:16:34 PM
For the moment just drop the multi-ing / botting discussion. I dont want it to hijack the thread. Clearly it is a discussion that needs to take place but Id like to have a clearer understanding of the opinions of other staff first. I'll create a separate thread at a later stage to address it.

As for healing changes they'll likely stay, but i'll definitely do a sweep of mobs to fix things up on that front. If you're aware of any mobs that have healing which doesn't function correctly please let me know via forum message and i'll fix them.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 03, 2016, 08:30:56 PM
I actually like that idea a ton. Allow each to play 2 chars. This opens up SO much. I don't know about some people but I personally hate playing clerics now. I haven't made 1 for wipes. I got so burnt out. And the thing is.. I'm a pretty bad ass healer. I just wanted to play something else.

Lets say you play with a small group of folks, 3-5 maybe. YES you could potentially have 6-10 people in a group, unless we keep groupsize to 8(which I think we should). Everyone could play what they really want to play and not asked to log this or log that, which effectively makes them want to log out when they have to log something they dont want to play.

Would allow you to solo(2man) things when you just dont have anyone to play with. I logged in earlier and I was 1 of 3 people on. One was lvl 21 and the other was 24. I can't do anything with that. Nothing worth doing anyhow. So i just logged back out and logged onto a different mud.

Let's say you just open the gates for multi'ing for the rest of this wipe. Consider it a test time. Things are being reverted back, Pbase is god awfully low. See how it shakes out and then decide what you wanna do when its time to wipe again.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Zozen on August 03, 2016, 08:53:37 PM
Good to see the game has some fresh blood pumpin' in the veins of the overlordship.

Lookin' forward to seeing the updates and changes. Good luck in all the endeavors!

The reality is  50% (or more) of people either multi, bot, or have a close friend they play with who does one of the two.

My Wild never used bots or multing. I will always oppose them. I agree with Hoodoo on this one: it takes away from the game and adds nothing to it. If the entire game is too hard to be done on 5 people then change the game to accommodate 5 people. But I guarantee you, 5 people can do 95-98% of the game right now in it's current state. And as Corey has said in the past: a legend shaman and paladin can do almost all of it as a duo. Using the excuse that you can't do game content without bots is just that: an excuse. A weak one at that. Sack up and learn zones: learn to load gear that makes you stronger and learn to use resources available when they are available. I didn't use 2 bots to learn Sleet. I didn't use bots to learn Blood Shoal. I grouped with friends that spent weeks/months/years of playtime to learn them.

Cheers!


Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 03, 2016, 08:59:04 PM
As for stats and all that other stuff.

*I think stats should stay ABOUT the same. Maybe boost them up a little bit. No stat should be able to go over 21 natural.
*I would really revert weapons back to their original stats. Make some a bit heavier than before
*Gear... This is rough. Idk what  stats are on which items atm but I heard hydra gaunts changed to 2str now or something. Thats kinda lame
*I think all class sets need to stay in the game. I also think all the old sets need to be brought back INCLUDING Flexible Red Dragon set!
*I agree with the spellload post a few pages back or whatever. Some groups of people just will not ever ever ever be able to get the top tier spells. They just dont have the manpower. Sure they can latch onto a bigger clan and hope to get a roll? or hope that all those mages are spelled already. Does void load any of the big 3? I don't think it does, but maybe it should.
*Druids healing cloud was way to bapting buff. Keep it at 1cloud with a longer duration. The only classes that should be able to solo heal zones is clerics and shamans.
*Druids also need a bit of love though I think. A decent pet would be nice. Maybe a conjure greater elemental type spell.
*Decay timers are bapted. Being able to deeprent something that is nonrent decay for the wipe is just lame.
*Keep casting level I think. That wasn't a bad idea.
*Take a look at skills... some of them just go so slowly unless you set it up on a trigger and either afk over night like some do or just semi-afk and do other shit for hours on end.
*Load rates of spells. Anything like 7th circle and less should just auto load. I mean. Should a shaman have to run something 10-15 times to get ghostmaster ritual or ghost berries or tenacious heart or whatever else.
*Legends honestly seem balanced to me. They are supposed to be bad asses
*Exp from 27-30 is just amazingly boring. I would make exp like 30% easier or more but make death tolls at level 30 1.3x as much
*Damage vs players in pvp is a touche area. Some pks happen insanely fast. Some fights get drawn out when its mostly meat and potatoes(tanks/clerics). On one hand, if a group of 4-5 jump 1 person. That person probably shouldnt be able to get away that easy. Thieves should not stab for 450+damage. Thats just moronic. Punch shouldn't do 100 damage. Bash shouldnt do 50-100 damage. So mostly Id just scale back damage from skills
*Clerics... I have always thought clerics needed some love. Sure legend clerics are buff but man are they boring as shit. Have you ever thought to give clerics different paths like scouts/mages? Zealot/Holyman/Healer(thats taken from another mud)
*Scouts need hp buffs badly. I mean. I had a level 30 scout that had less hps than my shaman.
*Raise the limits on the majority of eq. Does it really matter if there are more than 2-3 carved dragon claw rings/crimson glass bracelets/rings of the skull etc?

That's about all i can think of right now.

Thanks for taking the time to read all these post and for giving feedback.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: DCPTY1986 on August 03, 2016, 10:27:42 PM
Lol @ Zozen i wouldn't need bots either if i had someone spoon feeding me all of that zone info.


Good to see the game has some fresh blood pumpin' in the veins of the overlordship.

Lookin' forward to seeing the updates and changes. Good luck in all the endeavors!

The reality is  50% (or more) of people either multi, bot, or have a close friend they play with who does one of the two.

My Wild never used bots or multing. I will always oppose them. I agree with Hoodoo on this one: it takes away from the game and adds nothing to it. If the entire game is too hard to be done on 5 people then change the game to accommodate 5 people. But I guarantee you, 5 people can do 95-98% of the game right now in it's current state. And as Corey has said in the past: a legend shaman and paladin can do almost all of it as a duo. Using the excuse that you can't do game content without bots is just that: an excuse. A weak one at that. Sack up and learn zones: learn to load gear that makes you stronger and learn to use resources available when they are available. I didn't use 2 bots to learn Sleet. I didn't use bots to learn Blood Shoal. I grouped with friends that spent weeks/months/years of playtime to learn them.

Cheers!

Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Oligo on August 04, 2016, 12:07:11 PM
#botlivesmatter
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: pasta_whee on August 04, 2016, 12:44:00 PM
Some very exciting news. I wish the new guys the best of luck and would like to give a big ole thank you to the old staff for keeping the game up and running for as long as you did.

MAKE ARCTIC GREAT AGAIN!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 04, 2016, 01:52:47 PM
Pasta_Whee is going to build a wall. it's going to be a great wall. He can do it cheaper and faster than everyone else. AND HE'S GOING TO MAKE RGB PAY FOR IT!!!!!(RGB was the only clan I could think to associate with mexico..)
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: merk on August 04, 2016, 04:44:53 PM
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: relethane on August 04, 2016, 08:03:02 PM
I've whined about this before and got kind of harsh replies but I'll try again:

The goal of new changes should be to attract new blood into the game.  It seems that many of the ideas being tossed around by person X are tailored to make the game more fun for person X.  That is a problem when person X is very experienced at Arctic and knows how to pop all the gear with the stats s/he is saying to raise to their former glory. It won't help keep new players.   Please consider the noobs if you want to grow the player base.  And, "suck up to a good player, noob, and learn from them" may not be the best answer.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kadaj on August 04, 2016, 08:46:16 PM
I used to absolutely LOVE pk in this game. It was probably the best aspect of it, the adrenaline rush of putting your hard earned set on the line vs your enemies' sets. That was also 8-10 years ago. I don't even care about pking right now as my play time is so random compared to most of the people I play with. I enjoy doing hard fights on as few people as possible. I've botted in the past sure, much like a lot of you. The joy I get is finding a new zone and figuring it out with just myself or with a friend  or a bot. It could be a zone I have been in a thousand times but I was never the leader. Just finding new, interesting little things in the game is what's fun for me personally. I've had the best sets, all the spells and all that shit. Maybe it's just me since I'm getting older but the thrill of PK just isn't there anymore. I don't care either way on the botting, but as Jorquin said, it's a pretty slippery slope and opens the doors to the select few that would abuse it to the fullest.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: reed23 on August 04, 2016, 10:39:41 PM
Moved botting post to applicable thread.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorquin on August 05, 2016, 06:15:01 AM
Clearly commenting on the multi-ing / botting debate in this thread was a massive mistake.

I have created a new thread for that discussion to continue. I'd like this to remain broader than one issue. I will from now on be moving any and all posts relating to that specific issue to the alternate thread.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorquin on August 05, 2016, 06:44:16 AM
That aside, responding to other ideas listed:

Weapon weight as balance : I agree this is a decent way to balance some specific overpowered weapons and will be looked at. The recent weapon changes used weight as a balancing factor, and while those changes were unpopular once stats have been reverted I think looking at how weight compares against zone difficulty and power is in the picture.

Keep current class sets and add/re-add more unique sets : Da.

Decay timers : Read my previous posts, I'm not going to repeat myself. That's right, I'm not going to repeat myself. Repeat myself. Repeat.

Spell load rates : As above.

Legendaries : Agree for the most part. The only one that sticks out is paladins who probably need a look. Freedom should have its cooldown tripled, as a get-out-jail-free card it's quite overpowered. A compensatory exchange might be a minor rebuff to strike to increase their consistent usefulness in combat.

Skill damage : Agree. Not sure how this plays out in terms of difficulty to change (on our side). We'll see. I'd like to affect some things, but may not be able to. You stay classy San Diego, we'll let you know.

Clerics : Smite is a decent idea. Fairly comparable with paladin strike, but would require coding. We'll see. Not a bad idea and one that I'd support because you're right, playing clerics is generally boring and shitty... but getting someone to code this and have it balanced with rapture is another story.

Equipment : I'm sorry, are you trolling right now? Limits on equipment in general are phenomenal. The amount of powerful equipment in the game has  NEVER been higher. You couldn't max out the low limit (below 3) equipment in the game if you tried. While I don't mean to be totalitarian, there's practically zero chance item limits across the board will be raised because there's just no point - you're already spoiled for choice.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on August 05, 2016, 08:31:36 AM

Equipment : I'm sorry, are you trolling right now? Limits on equipment in general are phenomenal. The amount of powerful equipment in the game has  NEVER been higher. You couldn't max out the low limit (below 3) equipment in the game if you tried. While I don't mean to be totalitarian, there's practically zero chance item limits across the board will be raised because there's just no point - you're already spoiled for choice.

you must be talking about super high level zones.  because in the mid-high range everything is gone all wipe.  even when only like 15 people were playing at the end of the 2015 wipe it was just empty zone after empty zone.  day after day with 0 loads.  its depressing.  not everyone who plays this game can clear the high content.

besides more equipment is better in every single way.  if there is plenty loading people are less fearful about exploring or pvp fighting.  right now im usually afraid to try a new zone because when the inevitable mass rip with no cr comes, anything i miss the repop on is gone forever.  being 8 month deeprented on someone else's char.  and im back to searching barren zones that have nearly 0 chance to load anything.  i have to hope for the miracle rent decay load.  but as we are saying, stuff isnt rent decaying.  you really dont see any problem?

so what would be the downside of more equipment in the game?  i really cant see it.

Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: lurker on August 05, 2016, 08:40:07 AM
Maybe the problem isn't that the limits in the "mid-high" zones are too low, but rather that the gear in those zones is too good so it gets hoarded.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 05, 2016, 09:54:15 AM
I know this forum already has a Q&A section, but many of the questions are responded to by other players.

I think a Q&A section restricted to immortal reply, in addition to the crowd sourced Q&A we already have could potentially be very useful for the transparency and player/staff relationship.

I think many people have specific questions regarding game mechanics (particularly ones that either don't seem to work correctly or that don't make reasonable sense to them).  Having a reasonable expectation of a timely response regarding player concerns from a staff member will build a lot of bridges.  As a player feeling as though my questions and concerns are  specifically addressed goes a long way. Furthermore it could allow the questioner to refine their response if their question is confused.

In some of instances other players will jump on board a thread to add their two cents, offer unofficial answers, or muddle and confuse the original question, so when it is answered by staff the original question may not even be addressed.

Considering the current overhaul the staff is doing, expected wait times would obviously be longer. Also questions that may infringe on the protection of underlying mechanics still receiving a reply and explanation makes players feel addressed.

Players would also have to show restraint and respect as not to troll or waste staff time with drawn out questions.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 05, 2016, 10:06:45 AM
You mean, like the post you just made? A huge off topic statement as to what happens when things go off topic? Makes total sense
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on August 05, 2016, 10:18:36 AM
Maybe the problem isn't that the limits in the "mid-high" zones are too low, but rather that the gear in those zones is too good so it gets hoarded.

maybe in some cases that is true.  but in a lot of other cases i think there is just no reason not to save it.

say a  +str bracer loads.  not too great but why not hang onto it even if you cant use it?  stick it on a storage character.  with the current system it will be practically free to rent, quite possibly never decay, and who knows you might have a use for it someday.  if nothing else you are denying its use to your enemies.  and now it will never load again for the rest of the wipe.

i didnt play that much this wipe.  looks like my main has 3.5 days playtime.  but when i quit i had enough coins to rent for over 200 days.  and now it sounds like rent is going to get cheaper?  what is the reason not to stash that limited bracer forever?  and every other limited item? 
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: SArT on August 05, 2016, 10:53:15 AM
Unsure if I will be able to return to the game.. but super excited for the changes.

Thanks for working to make Arctic great again!


I hope I get to play with you all again after the changes. In some ways we are all connected for life.. a dysfunctional family of sorts.

SArT
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Nostramazos on August 05, 2016, 11:05:20 AM
PK is the major issue in Arctic.

It is the one issue that creates a toxic environment, random rage, delusions of grandeur, power tripping and quite a few of premature ejaculations. Oh yes, and the reason why people quit. This is because many players lose no chance to act like jerks when they pkill or getting pked. You wanna talk verbal abuse, threats of amputation and death? Swearing at wives, mothers, daughters and sons? Don't get me started. Everyone in this mud has either done it, or has a friend who has done it and kept silent.

Fact is that the more you create a fun and engaging environment the more people will start playing and return to this game. So, let's deal with PK first before anything else.

There are solutions to be coded at last. These solutions have as their foundation the reasons of why people play.

On the one hand, you have people who want to dominate the game. They should be allowed to pkill and get pkilled, moan at immortals, bitch at other players, pretend how they don't care about the eq they lost but at least they did not lose their honor etc etc, all in order to feed their illusion that the game can be dominated.

On the other hand, you have people who just want to zone and explore. They should be allowed to do that without having to deal with the people who want to dominate the mud. They should not be allowed to hold any major limit 1 or limit 2 eq or anything that should be out there in the pk market.

Maybe a permanent option for a non-pk flag in character creation? I'd go for that.

Just some thoughts. Fix PK by giving players the option not to be part in it. Or face the red button.

Nostramazos
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: reed23 on August 05, 2016, 12:00:11 PM
Can the people asking for more gear loads give examples of what kinds of items you are referring to?  Specifically, item stats, worn location, and weapon dice?  Are we talking about plus 1 Stat items, 16 to 19 dam primes, auto flies, etc? Or are we talking about plus dam non hand/wrist/body items, hard bashes, plus big slots, etc?
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gnua on August 05, 2016, 12:21:35 PM
Can the people asking for more gear loads give examples of what kinds of items you are referring to?  Specifically, item stats, worn location, and weapon dice?  Are we talking about plus 1 Stat items, 16 to 19 dam primes, auto flies, etc? Or are we talking about plus dam non hand/wrist/body items, hard bashes, plus big slots, etc?

plenty of the former loads on the core clan floor especially when the smith is broken so i hope that people arent starved for that sort of thing. 

problems with the latter can probably be addressed by having top tier items decay faster in rent
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Oligo on August 05, 2016, 12:28:39 PM
5.     We want to find more contributors. If you believe you can contribute to Arctic then contact a member of staff, just make sure have the best intentions of the game at heart before putting your foot forward.

In the spirit of contribution, I'd like to volunteer to contribute or moderate a Botting sub forum. As it probably warrants a subforum beyond the existing MUD Client Discussion forum and there seems to be a bit of interest in the subject.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: btown on August 05, 2016, 12:54:18 PM
I think 20year veterans should get full game knowledge.  like mystic vault and crap.

Honestly I've been exploring this game for 20years and there is still things that is unsolvable.. whether it was time constraints or lack of players.

I am done exploring that crap.  new games new times.  how about making it a lot easier to do the high level impossible to figure out super long  zones unless you are 15 years old with absoloutely nothing to do.

^^this would bring back some players and some competition.

I am not talking about the new zones from the last 5 years ago or so.

Anyway this was more of wishful thinking rant and not based on reality

I am hinting a little toward Mithas,  which i have gotten a little ways in there,  no main fights but.

Anyway I just think a lot of these keywords and crap is insanely stupid and takes way to much time to learn.

rant over
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 05, 2016, 01:15:08 PM
Not sure if your were addressing me. From what I understand this area is for ideas moving forward. I have one regarding a Q&A as a direct line of communication to imms without douchey side comments and opinions like yours. I don't care what you think about my idea. My suggestion is not directed in anyway towards you, it is something that might be helpful and to be considered by the staff. Guess some people can't help but be trolls.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 05, 2016, 05:06:38 PM
Brandon thinks 20 year vets should get full game knowledge. So... i'm like 4 years shy i guess:(
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on August 05, 2016, 05:39:23 PM
Can the people asking for more gear loads give examples of what kinds of items you are referring to?  Specifically, item stats, worn location, and weapon dice?  Are we talking about plus 1 Stat items, 16 to 19 dam primes, auto flies, etc? Or are we talking about plus dam non hand/wrist/body items, hard bashes, plus big slots, etc?

im just talking about newbie stuff.  i dont expect to find hard bashes, although that would be fun.  like maybe strength rings or +dmg body or something.  that kind of stuff never loads.

a good example is the face rippers.  not a super amazing item but me and my noob friends were excited to have them.  i havent seen them in about 6 years.  and now i know why.  loaded them the 2nd day of the wipe and they are still rented on my warrior.  havent decayed once.  they really should.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 05, 2016, 07:05:50 PM
I think everything but limit 1-4 items should be unlimited.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 05, 2016, 07:09:13 PM
I also think a new class would be bapting amazing. Bard or Monk or illusionist. Something to spice up the norm
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: merk on August 05, 2016, 09:01:11 PM
Equipment : I'm sorry, are you trolling right now? Limits on equipment in general are phenomenal. The amount of powerful equipment in the game has  NEVER been higher. You couldn't max out the low limit (below 3) equipment in the game if you tried. While I don't mean to be totalitarian, there's practically zero chance item limits across the board will be raised because there's just no point - you're already spoiled for choice.
I think  you should provide data to back this up. Which items get maxxed out?  And you mentioned "phenomenal" --  for which type of player (the hardcore player or the middle or newbie)?

my hunch is that most of the eq will be in the 1% (in this case 4 players within CORE) and the 99% of players will never ever see this eq.

This creates a chasm between "CORE" and everyone else, which decreases competition and makes the game boring for everyone.

Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kadaj on August 05, 2016, 11:06:03 PM
The only reason "CORE" has all the equipment is because we are the only ones playing. When Wild/MYTH and RISE were active, we had 1/4 of the equipment we do now. Tip: Don't quit.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: mikey on August 06, 2016, 03:40:04 AM
I think everything but limit 1-4 items should be unlimited.

I'd really love to see this, and I agree with Tacoman - i just don't see what it would hurt.

You could make the extra items no rent, no trade, decay on drop, or whatever.  It would be nice know you are going to be able to get some halfway decent gear whenever you needed it.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Valenore on August 06, 2016, 07:43:52 AM
I think 20year veterans should get full game knowledge.  like mystic vault and crap.

My problem is what game knowledge entails.  Most of game knowledge comes down to guessing obscure keyword combinations or reading through room description after room description.  I don't mind exploring in that I might stumble into a room with mobs that destroy me but I have better things to do play with Thesaurus.com open in another window trying to guess what synonym of a verb I should be using or if I am using the correct set of arguments with it.

Unfortunately, since Arctic is text based the design space to introduce complicated fight mechanics, mazes, or other types of game knowledge are fairly limited.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Valenore on August 06, 2016, 07:50:12 AM
I think everything but limit 1-4 items should be unlimited.

A solution that would probably be too difficult to implement.  Make two versions of the non-elite limit items (i.e. normal version A "A spiked wrist buckler" and new version B "a spiked wrist buckler").  Both have the same stats with version A being the current limit and loading rules and version B being unlimit with low load %.  Normal A retains the current decay timer and rent cost.  New B decays faster and has a higher rent cost (very high if not equipped).  Version B should probably be no-locate also (death load or flagged).

Under that system, you do get rewarded for getting the limit version of an item (keeps some of the fun of rushing at beginning of wipe, still makes a version A from a harder zones which isn't spammed more valuable than a similar item's version B from a spammed zone) but you get rewards for grinding late in wipes (If all I have time to do is solo or all I do is play with a friend or two I can get a good set of gear by grinding). 
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: merk on August 06, 2016, 10:49:00 AM

Again all these "beliefs" can be proven out by experimenting and measurements.

Kadaj -- if we are serious about growing the game, we can't be always relying on the same players in the same clans (WILD/CORE/RISE). New players have to replace older players as they stop playing. The game is not very fun for new players -- unable to find a group, unable to get any sort of equipment in the same zones.

Jorquin--  you mentioned that you want to make decisions that benefit the most people, and have open lines of communication. I think its apparent that most people find the current limit item system broken and not very equitable, and yet you are being a totalitarian in this decision to not change things. How do you reconcile the two?

I firmly believe the game needs to start looking at statistics and measurements. It needs to change the game to allow new players to enjoy the same game as the hardcore players.

As a returning "new" player this wipe, I found myself unable to find a group (solved by botting/mutlting?),  find any sort of real  equipment that made my game easier (solved by increasing eq limits or changing eq to %), and not having any chance when you are pk'd by stronger players ( solved by allowing the new player to get eq and have groups).


Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 06, 2016, 11:22:09 AM
I think everyone who is continuously lobbying one idea here whether it be equipment or multiing etc should be ashamed of themselves. Here we have new staff willing to consider new ideas and you guys sit and force your opinions regarding singular topics down their throat.

Merk, while some agree with you, you are completely off base in many of your assumptions. You do realize that the total number of players from RISE/CORE/WILD and the Finns, Danes, Russians when they play are extremely capable and represent the majority of Arctics population.

This idea that the equipment is just gone at some point is patently false. I played for about 20 hours solo recently (or less), and was able to load 3 str rings, 2 str wrists, a lim 2 wrist work, 2 dex 8 disable 8 envenom plate, str about worn, str arm worn, 2 dex invis/det invis ring.

Any player who commits a reasonable amount of time during a week or two of play (at most) should be able to obtain what they want or something similar with proper game knowledge.

A casual player has casual gear. (Example: If I camp, or fish, or invest small amounts of time in any other hobby... I don't get all the top of the line shit. It is illogical to think otherwise in any other capacity of your life.) Work hard, get rewarded.

Having a deeper understanding of the game will allow you to acquire more desirable equipment. Expecting handouts from the imms is unfair to the people who spent years and countless hours exploring, bartering, and improving their understanding of the game. These people and their associates make up the majority of the population and when they quit there is plenty to be had if you so desire it. Prior to them quitting.  If you desire to join the competition for limited resources, a casual approach does not suffice.

Regarding the issue of equipment limits, you have made your point. Continually posting and lobbying this idea, spouting falsities and questioning the staffs integrity or logic does not foster a communal attitude towards change. A spiteful person would do nothing to help you and even the most measured will get wore down at the incessant insistence that your idea is the right one.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kadaj on August 06, 2016, 11:53:24 AM
A casual player has casual gear.  Work hard, get rewarded.

Expecting handouts from the imms is unfair to the people who spent years and countless hours exploring, bartering, and improving their understanding of the game.

Pretty much this. The casual player should indeed have casual gear. Let's face it, this game is old as dirt. There's not a giant flow of new players. Yes, when one does come around it would be great if we could keep them here. 90% of the people playing this game have been playing for over 10 years. I know when there WERE people playing, CORE was open to inviting them to group if they had room. Bringing them through zones they would otherwise not be able to do. Coddling newbs is something Arctic has never done and I don't think it will in the future.  Ask to join a group, log zones and learn. Find like minded individuals who want to explore with you.   

Gear is everywhere, you just have to go past your normal zones that are spammed and dig a little deeper.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Oligo on August 06, 2016, 12:46:36 PM
There's not a giant flow of new players.

There are no new players. Every "new" Arctic player is a recycle from a prior wipe.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: merk on August 06, 2016, 02:56:46 PM
I apologize if my last statement seemed like I was questioning someone's integrity. My main point is being lost, which is to use experimentation and data backed decisions.

Everyone's view point is biased and mine is biased mostly on the experience I had during this return as a "new " player.

I would love to get to the point where we are discussing numbers, data, and graphs.



Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on August 06, 2016, 03:00:20 PM
I think everyone who is continuously lobbying one idea here whether it be equipment or multiing etc should be ashamed of themselves. Here we have new staff willing to consider new ideas and you guys sit and force your opinions regarding singular topics down their throat.

Merk, while some agree with you, you are completely off base in many of your assumptions. You do realize that the total number of players from RISE/CORE/WILD and the Finns, Danes, Russians when they play are extremely capable and represent the majority of Arctics population.

This idea that the equipment is just gone at some point is patently false. I played for about 20 hours solo recently (or less), and was able to load 3 str rings, 2 str wrists, a lim 2 wrist work, 2 dex 8 disable 8 envenom plate, str about worn, str arm worn, 2 dex invis/det invis ring.

Any player who commits a reasonable amount of time during a week or two of play (at most) should be able to obtain what they want or something similar with proper game knowledge.

A casual player has casual gear. (Example: If I camp, or fish, or invest small amounts of time in any other hobby... I don't get all the top of the line shit. It is illogical to think otherwise in any other capacity of your life.) Work hard, get rewarded.

Having a deeper understanding of the game will allow you to acquire more desirable equipment. Expecting handouts from the imms is unfair to the people who spent years and countless hours exploring, bartering, and improving their understanding of the game. These people and their associates make up the majority of the population and when they quit there is plenty to be had if you so desire it. Prior to them quitting.  If you desire to join the competition for limited resources, a casual approach does not suffice.

Regarding the issue of equipment limits, you have made your point. Continually posting and lobbying this idea, spouting falsities and questioning the staffs integrity or logic does not foster a communal attitude towards change. A spiteful person would do nothing to help you and even the most measured will get wore down at the incessant insistence that your idea is the right one.

you are not who i thought you were eddiex.  shame on everyone else for trying to have a discussion about something we feel strongly about and then insult us for a while?  flamewar on?

p.s. right now (Total visible people : 6        Total people online  : 6) might not be the best time to try to judge if there is enough equipment for everyone.

p.p.s. i still havent heard anyone give any good reason why more mid level equipment would be a bad thing.  except your argument that we are bad so we dont deserve items.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Chisul on August 06, 2016, 03:18:42 PM
My two cents on equipment.

Having just returned to playing, I'm finding a metric shit ton of gear in mid level zones. The kind of zone a high level char can breeze through in minutes. Plus I found several items loaded I have never (in 18+ years of playing) seen before. A two save neckworn comes to mind in a spot I've farmed for coins thousands of times over the years...and never seen.

Also we need to remember the world merchant has dumped many many items into playing availability. Checking the world merchant has netted me some really good stuff that someone just didn't want/need.

My point is that now is a great time to explore to learn new zones and eq loads. The stuff is loading, so go learn it.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 06, 2016, 04:10:16 PM
you are not who i thought you were eddiex.  shame on everyone else for trying to have a discussion about something we feel strongly about and then insult us for a while?  flamewar on?

p.s. right now (Total visible people : 6        Total people online  : 6) might not be the best time to try to judge if there is enough equipment for everyone.

p.p.s. i still havent heard anyone give any good reason why more mid level equipment would be a bad thing.  except your argument that we are bad so we dont deserve items.

Supertacoman, you wrote:

"you must be talking about super high level zones.  because in the mid-high range everything is gone all wipe.  even when only like 15 people were playing at the end of the 2015 wipe it was just empty zone after empty zone.  day after day with 0 loads.  its depressing.  not everyone who plays this game can clear the high content."

I gave an example that this is not true, then you double back by saying there are only a few players now so it's not the best time to discuss.  Are you ignorant of your own hypocrisy?  You also said that items you were interested in were 1 stat items or body dam.  Are you aware that there are at least two commonly known zones in the game that load an unlimited body dam?


I am not opposed to raising the limit on mid level gear (but I am not of the belief that it is a necessity) and I am in favor of every limited item having a static decay timer that runs whether in game or in rent.

The point of my last post:
The staff member (Jorquin) who opened and is monitoring this discussion has already addressed or given a fairly clear response to certain ideas here.  Even after his response people continue to lobby, question, and contradict.  Furthermore, if people have new ideas to add that have not already been discussed it could be much easier to overlook with all the politicking going on.

Regarding equipment limits
"Equipment : I'm sorry, are you trolling right now? Limits on equipment in general are phenomenal. The amount of powerful equipment in the game has  NEVER been higher. You couldn't max out the low limit (below 3) equipment in the game if you tried. While I don't mean to be totalitarian, there's practically zero chance item limits across the board will be raised because there's just no point - you're already spoiled for choice."

Regarding multiing
"For the moment just drop the multi-ing / botting discussion. I dont want it to hijack the thread. Clearly it is a discussion that needs to take place but Id like to have a clearer understanding of the opinions of other staff first. I'll create a separate thread at a later stage to address it."

Regarding item decay
"Decay timers - Will be looked at in due course, but as it would have to be done on a case by case basis there's better "bang for buck" in terms of effort expenditure right now. The bangle of awesomeness lasting an extra week isn't a strong encouragement for people to return to Arctic."
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Super Tacoman on August 06, 2016, 10:50:48 PM
eddiex "blah blah blah elitist nonsense...i want a flame war!"

me "are you sure?  this doesnt seem like the right time"

eddiex " i loaded this and that!  i am the greatest!  you noob and hippo!  i demand the flamewar!"
 
me "ok"
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kam on August 07, 2016, 12:15:29 AM
Quote
Topic: Moving Forward  (Read 1337 times).

Perfect time for me to reply!

eddiex, super tacoman, thanks for fighting on the front lawn. Cool it, nobody's gonna win.

Jorquin, Keila - good luck with moving the game forward.. or well, a little backward, and then forward, I guess? :/

Everyone else - thank you for all of your responses, keep it up. For the most part some good ideas coming out.

My take:

- Heal is broken. Please fix it. It's.. I mean, it's heal, man. Or rename is cure extreme, but don't toy with people's emotions like this.

- Huma is broken. Please fix it. It's.. I mean, it's humas, man! Or rename it shiny tin shield or something, but don't toy with people's emotions like this.

- Weapons are broken. Please fix them. I mean, you already said yes, so great! Thank you. lol 2d6 errything.

Someone said not too many posts ago that the main focus everyone seems to have is on making the game better for the players we already have rather than attracting new players. I don't disagree with that, and I don't disagree with that being the main focus for now.
I think that retaining the current playerbase (quite small, at this stage in the wipe/state of the game) is our utmost obligation. The people who are and have been with us through the ups and downs are our number one asset and our first real obligation is to them and continuing to operate the game that they love/are irrevocably addicted to.
These are the people who will reach out to other former players, who have quit this wipe or in wipes recently past, or even some many years ago to bring them back to the game. These are the people we want to be able to retain most of all. They get it, they know what to expect, they're hunting the old feelings the game used to rouse in them.
Then, with them on board, we can start to really bring in new players.
In my experience people who play the game bring new people to the game more than any amount of shoddy advertising or spamvoting were ever able to get us. The learning curve here is steep, it's really bapting steep. I still have the hand drawn map of Port Balifor that my friend Anthony made for me while he was working at a gas station down the street from my house so that I could get around town while he couldn't log to lead me around. Let's sate the wants and needs of the people who love us anyway, or at least loved us once before and then we can go find some new victims.

That being said, here's the other stuff I think, in no particular order:

- Group limit. I feel like 10 has been great, 8 I'm okay with but lower would need some light nerfing of zones here and there. As ever if you have 12 on and the limit is 10 I can never understand why people don't break into two groups of 6 and crush. Apart from the real end game stuff it's not hard to roll through most high zones with a solid 6 man, even a rickety one can be passable for a lot of stuff.

- Ranks. I think ranks are fine, they cost too many goddamn coins though. I spend a ton of time just running zones for coins which is really not how I want to spend my limited playtime now that I'm all grown up with a job and shit. In high school sure I could spam all day and not give a shit, but now? C'mon! That being said I wouldn't mind seeing some of the skill ranks return or more class specific stuff. Low priority.

- PK. Am I a lunatic if I said why not just reduce all player vs player damage by 50% and see what happens? I bet Oligo can link an epic log or fifty of the PK world of old where almost nobody landed a massacre on another player, let alone triple oblit them. (My ideas get more crazy with aggressors not being able to recall/teleport/etc and on and on, but flags have always been undependable in this regard, I feel).

- Decay timers. Hold fast, see the 'Deep renting' comment below. I think these could use a gentle rebalancing throughout the game. I've had a lot of stuff the last few wipes that seemed to run away from me awful quick while other stuff I literally never had to repop. I'd say a little longer on the ultra high end, and shorter the easier the items get to pop.

- Deep renting. I'd love to see a way to make all items go rent_decay after a certain period of time in rent/rent costs compounding over time with some sort of time in rent/time online ratio level that you'd need to maintain to keep rent cheap. If you're on everyday and running around I don't think you should get penalized, but if you log once a week or less and you're still holding on to something invariably valuable, that's a bit lame. I feel like the original rent decay program was meant to handle this but maybe it's broken or just not widely used enough?

- Clans. Someone mentioned removing clan sizes.. I don't really find a downside, can anyone? It's really just a coin sink/hassle for chieftains, right?

- Healing cloud. I don't know what's happened to it this wipe, but the first iteration was dope as bapt. Too dope. It needed some nerfing but it sounds like it's been hamstrung. It should be more useful, and land 100%, but it shouldn't work in nomagic.

- Books. Chaos ball book is amazing, but then my clan got stun, prism, fireshield, mirror and tent from Noom in a day, so maybe I'm bias? (All I ever personally got was recharge, btw.) It's a good thing to have in the game, we never would have been able to pk the shit out of Wild that wipe (shutup) if we didn't have those spells that we never could have gotten through normal means (big green, at the time, I believe?). It was a great wipe! Cleric books have been unloved since time immemorial. I created a new set of them wipes and wipes ago but they were never implemented. Let me know if you'd like to take a look. Druid and shaman tabs/charms are the worst. I feel like spelling a mage is 100 times easier than spelling a druid or shaman, and spelling a cleric up until golden books is the easiest of all. Book loads in general need a good bit of lovin'.

- Skills. Ease the grind, I agree. Some stuff isn't that bad, like whoever mentioned camp, that's super easy, but mend/lore and especially that shitty shaman spell that nukes charmies.. Oh the times I've spent on a mage with triggers to let someone skill that horrible thing. The actual worst. (Also, classes that have skills at such a low level cap that it isn't even worth actually having that skill -- scout rescue I'm looking at you -- should either be removed or at least increased to a level of moderate usefulness).

- Item sets. Yes, we all agree I think, bring back some of the old ones, keep the new ones, but I'd add that maybe slight debuffing of a couple might be in order.

- Whoever wanted to bring back Tantallon, I hate you. Someone wants to build a new one without Thavian's influence, go for it. We replaced Thavianland with Bertilland. See help area creator bertil for more information.

- XP tables. I'd love to see a light easing up from 13-25, for the potential noobs one day, but for the rest of us that run from 27-30 is brutal. The run from 30-1X could be harder, though, particularly if there was a reason to be 1X anymore. We should find one. I always turn the xp off in my prompt when I hit 28 because I just can't take it anymore.

- HP. Scouts need the love, but it would be great if we could show that love specifically to ocean scouts mostly, mountain scouts second and sky scouts barely. The beauty of an ocean scout main isn't often realized.

- Rent cities. The idea that we would condense players and make life easier seems to have missed the mark. Let's open up the market for innkeepers again.

- Disorientation/disoriented/etc. Can we please, for the love of all the gods, remove this garbage?

- Locate. Astral locate should die forever and we should start passing out nolocate flags like candy for low limit items and higher level books.

- Vigor. Mobs really shouldn't have this. Especially big mobs, but really any mob ever. If it meant that it'd have to go away completely, I'd prefer that to having the damned sailors pop back to perfect every tick!

And now for the 'Vuddy will code.' section where in the role of Vuddy is played by myself and Rafo:

- Pets. Can we make pets for all the classes? It'd maybe alleviate some of the desire/feeling of need for botting/multiing if we could make them useful enough. Just restrict it so they can't be used in groups anymore, or in groups of a certain size or something. Make all of the classes more similar to mages? I really enjoyed levelling up all my little mage pets and being able to pull out different ones based on what was happening. It's easily the best idea I've had lately. I can expand pretty wildly on this.

- Quests. We put in this quests system and I feel like it's incredibly underutilized. It needs some love from the creation side.

- Other quests. Looking at you, Archimedes. I have no problem digging around and finding the broken ends of things and fixing them. Balia hasn't been able to play dice for years now and it's disappointing.

- Tournaments. I've never been a fan of the always available arena idea, but I've run a decent tournament or two in my time. The game needs them for sanity, I think.

- Events. Seasonally we used to do great things for the game, they helped for big transitions of new zones going in or revamps or whatever, or just cause it was shark week and people wanted to kill some sharks, whatever the case, these were fun to make and run and people seemed to enjoy them. We should get back to it.


TL;DR: Make Arctic great again.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 07, 2016, 03:27:32 AM

Perfect time for me to reply!

eddiex, super tacoman, thanks for fighting on the front lawn. Cool it, nobody's gonna win.


World Star Nigga.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 07, 2016, 06:59:45 AM
Well damn. Kam. ... Someone make this guy a 34-35 with creation access, and let's make it happ'n cap'n.

And god yes do we need more tournaments and events. I remember the Jason Voorhees quest thing around halloween some years ago. We got to go in and kill zombies and loaded that machete thing. That was a bapting awesome weekend-week whatever it was. We just moved away from all that stuff though it seems. Maybe its coding issues, idk. I would be willing to help host/plan an event/quest/tournament though. Some imm could make all the items and then I would organize and oversee. Let me know!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Bryton on August 07, 2016, 12:55:09 PM
I just can't wait to pk all of you.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Rednax on August 07, 2016, 11:42:17 PM
I've been away and figured I'd post something here after reading up on the upcoming changes.

I'm a second gen mudder. My dad has told me a lot about the game's past (getting PK'd for your lovely 2d5++ weapon or something, or getting charged for drinking from the tarsis fountain.) I don't think I would have stayed around Arctic if PK was as prevalent now as it was back then (plus I suck at it anyway) so there is that. I've been playing arctic on and off for around 5 years and there is still a lot about the game I don't know. I've been piggybacking on my dad's hand drawn maps from years ago, and on the more noob-friendly players and clans. Sort of like the old AFKK. That WAS a thing, right?!

I find it fun having strong characters to play. It's probably because I'm doing something wrong (even as a legend paladin a few wipes ago, when stats and weapons weren't as poor as they are now, I was still struggling to solo a lot of stuff). But I liked the prospect of being able to walk around carefree, for the most part, and do some exploring. DT exploring is a pastime of mine, it seems. Getting to tag along with a large group for things I'd never even hoped to see (cyan) is also very fun. (Myth rocks!)

Having buff characters does raise problems for other people though, who get their enjoyment from PK or other PVP related things such as large clan battles. I wouldn't know, I haven't been around long enough, I guess. Scripting beyond setting up an auto splitter or recall hotkey/substitutions is still a mystery to me. But from my perspective, I really enjoyed being able to hit up the larger fights, see tons of neat items, and just explore around.

I see all this talk of whether 20 year veterans should get full game knowledge. I'm sure if I had even half that information I would be a much better player. I wouldn't have to get babied through everything by the people who know it all already. But then again, there ARE still people willing to take people like me on, and the less I know, the more fun exploring can be. Most of the time, at least when I'm not walking off cliffs...

I'll definitely be checking into the game again sometime soon! Here's just hoping there will still be a place for me.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Oligo on August 08, 2016, 12:41:50 AM
I just can't wait to pk all of you.

Don't worry, Bryton's pk is nothing to fear.
http://normstorm.com/logs/june18_2012.txt (http://normstorm.com/logs/june18_2012.txt)
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Loretta on August 08, 2016, 08:30:27 AM
IM FREE! RGB will fukcing reborn! Die Wilds.
btw can we have back 23 str mino mages?
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Rinad on August 08, 2016, 03:03:52 PM
On Kam's Points:

Heal: fix it slightly.  Heal Cloud is bad.  Otherwise it works ok for the most part.  It needed a mild nerf not a super nerf.

Huma - Don't care, never had, probably never will. 

Weapons - Reason I left 6 months ago, I couldn't take fighting with a butter knife, yes I can kill shit but I don't have a million free hours to do it.  I like to get zones done fast and quickly.  I lose attention and focus otherwise - ask Gram, he can confirm.

Groups - 10 limit is fine if you have enough online.  It sucks being sidelined when you have an 8 man running Cyan or some other boss mob/zone and you are the odd man out.  Also, if they (the other 10 man) is running a 3 hour zone and you have other things in life, more likely than not I will log and do other shit, thus reducing playing times.   Yes, I can run or be in other groups, but it's not as fun as being able to group all your old friends. 

Ranks - For the most part it's balanced, but I've seen a few glaring holes and would love to see some improvements.   1. put a level cap ranks, so for example 2 low-mid zones have more ranks than say a mid-high and anyone can still rank off of these mobs.  That's not right, plus it takes away a low zone from players because some asshat has razed the higher level rank only mobs.    For example - Matthias Manor has a large number of mobs that are rank (most of the zone), whereas Que Kiri a higher level zone has what 8 mobs that are rank.     I would also love to see quest ranks, makes it worth running quests and doing KW's for more than just the experience.   

Pk - I love an hate PK, but it's been a part of the game and should remain a part.  Maybe tweak it a little to make p v p battles require more tact and planning.   

Decay Timers/Short Term and Long Term Renting -  I agree there needs to be a better balance.   If I play more and have more time to play then I am not worrying about coins for rent and keeping my hard earned pops.  However, if I have a job or other life requirements now, that leaves me only a few hours a week to play, during which time my friends and I pop some nice gear, then I shouldn't be penalized.   However, it's also not fair that someone can rent an elite item for 6 months and still have it when they return.  There needs to be a fair balance so the casual player can work m-f and play on weekends and still have the opportunity to have nice gear.  Sometimes life throws us a curveball.  However, the hardcore players usually aren't worried about losing eq.  So if we play more maybe extend our timers a week or so. 

Clan Sizes are fine, most of us have 2-3 chars and we usually pay the boss for more spots. 

Books and Spells in General - Where do I begin....I like that we have to pop books for spells and some should be harder or a less % load.  But to have to run the same bapting zone over and over and over and over and over and over and 3 months later still no spell, that well blows and kills morale.  Or maybe make more books load in newer spots,  I mean I love Terzak and ToT, but spamming it, isn't on my list of fun activities in Arctic.  I know there are plenty of other mages and cleric mobs that could potentially load stuff.  --Basically, I see it like this - Dash comes - everyone wants to power level a main or non caster, so they can be legend quickly. Then the guy who heals or plays the caster has to hunt alongside many others to fight for a few spells. Then, next thing you know, these non caster type chars are legend in a few days or weeks whereas my cleric, druid or mage may still not make legend after 3 months. Meanwhile, we spam the same spell loads over and over, until we get sick bored of spamming rivermaster.  Then finally once we get the spells, most folks are bored and have quit for the wipe.

Skills -  God Bless You Kam.  Yeah some skills are completely broke, some are horrible to train and never used after that, some are actually useful and although a pain, still enough.   The shaman dispels the druid elementals comes to mind for example.   There are too many to list here, but a complete overhaul on the skill system needs to be assessed.   On that note :  Into the breach is broken as hell.  There needs to be a better way for barbs to turn it on and off.  Wasting 2-3 rounds before the first rescue fires off is bad.  I know other have argued about this and I've seen plenty of fights in my clan alone about this.  Either get rid of it, make wardance auto rescue again or allow for it the be engaged and disengaged like fence out of battle. 

Item Sets:  Yes more sets. 

XP Tables:  It took me 24 hours of game time to make it to 25 recently. So that's like 2 days of 12 hours of play,so that's about a fair pace.  I think once you get over 25 the wall is rough and agree it's just about ranks at that point and skilling for hours upon hours to make a legend. 

Inn's and rentals - more is good, even promote free trade and have the innkeepers compete.  I don't think Myth has had an inn in it's SH in wipes, pretty useless if you ask me.  Make it worth it to us.

Vigor/Disorientation - Make it harder for mobs to land?   

Locate of Spells -  Agreed on this.

Pets - Yeah make a few things better. This would need work to make it balanced.  For example animate dead and gates are pretty powerful if used properly together. 

Quests/Extra Content - I'm open for this.  I also think you could give rank points for some quests, ofc make sure it's balanced and not easily abused.   

As far as bringing back broken zones and whatnot, I agree with Kam, they need to be different and revamped.  Look at Ghostbusters remake, horrible.  We don't want the same with Tantallon, let's make it better and completely different.  Changing zone content and the redundancy of playing zones is what I feel has driven off some of our players.   Personally I love the new Dargaard and Neraka for example.   

Thanks to the staff.   

If I can help anywhere let me know, I'm down to create or help run some quests or tourney's.   I've been around this damn game for long enough and it's about time I help contribute. 




 






Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Alecto on August 08, 2016, 07:46:44 PM
A few observations...

sets, weapon damage, reinstating inns - everyone agrees, I have confidence it will get done. 

Heal/healing cloud - you have to gear up!  That said, I would like to see more 5% healing done items in the game to help the casual player.

Group size: whatever, there are pros and cons to just about any group size.  I would suggest 12 on wipe day, 10 the rest of wipe week, 8 from then on, just to help returning players find groups.

Pets: Shaman and Cleric pets are the reward for the suckdom of skilling (shaman) or the boredom of playing (cleric).  Druids should be able to have multiple elementals (3-5) if they use stones, that would be my only suggestion.

Load rates and limits are probably not going to undergo a massive change.  It would require someone to go through every zone and change the files for every object.  Besides which, there is more than enough gear.  I am not an elite mudder and I can pop whatever I need on my own most of the time.  If you are looking for elite gear - it pops in elite zone.  I'm not saying it to be an asshat, I just mean that there has to be a risk/reward ratio in place.  Cyan and Blaze load crazy awesome stuff because they take a lot of very good players a lot of time to kill, and a lot of people die in the process, and the risk of losing all your gear in the process is very real.  If you are mad because the plus damage waist from DKO is maxed its because the risk/reward is askew, those sorts of items are in the game so that casual players have a chance, but just a chance.  If you are having trouble loading basic, solid gear (2d7+ weapons, dam body, strength finger/wrist, -svs, 3cl items) message me and I will try to help you with some high % places to load it.

PK - I like the % -dam in PvP idea, at least test it out for a wipe and then revisit it.

Tantallon - feel free to make a map and write out 100 rdescs, 6 rexdescs per room, 3 redescs per room, as well as a list of mobs and where you would like them to load, with descriptions of those.  There are someone people who love making zones but hate writing descriptions.  Given that work I am sure the zone would be made.  I do miss the basilisk and hobgoblin section of Phaethon village...

Paladins - first strike takes a huge nerf and paladins become human (or elven) shields with limited ability to solo (unless you want to spend a LOT of time fighting).  Now we are suggesting extending the cool-down on Freedom?  Dont do that: just re-implement the quests.  Getting freedom in previous wipes was really hard, most wipes there are only 5-7 paladins in the game who have it.  Problem solved.  Also, make strike suck slightly less - it doesn't have to be the OP damage machine it used to be, but since it is the only offense in a paladin's arsenal it shouldn't be just an extra hit.

Clan size, ranks - they seem fine to me, I don't understand the issue...

Until next time - Alecto Moveit Moveit

Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Ericj on August 10, 2016, 08:43:03 AM
I like a lot of Kam's ideas.

Coins.....Please reduce rent in SH inns and for ranks.  It would be fun to actually change ranks around to play a different play style without having to pay 250k or more to change, not like something and go back.  What is the risk of having people swap ranks around for much less?

Decay timers - What if all items had a % to load rate instead of max limit?  I mean, would it really hurt the game if at one given time there were 3 old huma haste shields going around?  2 wyrmslaying wielding players?  As I grow older I find it harder and harder to want to get elite items with lower play time, it just is not possible unless you get lucky. 

What are people's thoughts on this change?  It would be a big one for arctic but why not try it one wipe and just see?
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: reed23 on August 10, 2016, 09:20:39 AM
I like eric's idea of reducing rank costs.  I agree, it would be fun to be able to switch ranks around to prep for certain things.  5 - 15k for ranks would be nice.  Then if you had to swap out 3 or 4 ranks, it would be doable.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gramm on August 10, 2016, 10:40:38 AM
Yes reduce rank costs, but lowering rent values is an invitiation to deeprent : p and horde all the nice gear on one person : p
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Kalerin on August 10, 2016, 11:14:48 AM
I agree with Eric on two points, first reduce rent at SH back down to same as other inns.  Clan already pays a decent chunk of change to build the thing, the 1.5X rent is quite vexing.

Secondly, having spent 750k on haste this wipe, I'm now "stuck" with it.  Don't get me wrong, hasted basher is fun BUT given that it costs 28 points AND 750,000 coins it leaves me no room to do anything else (and yes I know haste is quite powerful so maybe not a great example). 

One idea that could be interesting, although it would require coding, would be once you've purchased a rank at full price, its cost is reduced to say 10% of original cost.  That way you could purchase ranks and swap them around at a fraction of the cost.  That'd still mean it'd cost me 75k to drop haste for other things, which is not an insignificant sum, but that'd be worth it for certain big fights.  The overhead might be too much though.

Deep renting has always been an issue, not sure why certain items don't decay in rent while other items do.  Items should universally decay in rent or the imms should be much more active about pzrenting people.  You shouldn't be able to horde an item for 3 months w/o logging, unless significant changes are made to how an item loads (which from the sound of it would be a painstaking task). 

Sets ... bring em back

... heal changes make certain fights a lot easier, I mean A LOT easier.  Cure critical does more than heal in some instances for some mobs, so that's a little broken. 

Druids either need a better pet OR multiple stone charms, both would require coding but they kinda get the shaft in this front. 

Shamans are just too damn powerful relative to other classes, I understand it's a grind to legend them but they're beasts compared to the lowly warrior.  I get it, each class is different but it sucks when you see people soloing CT for coins and you're stuck HOPING that the ancient red dragon doesn't kill you.  In other words, more balance across the classes would be nice.  And maybe I'm just griping because I mained a warrior this wipe.

It'd be nice to see all races have same stats, have legendary races get other advantages.  I guess the stat changes will be less significant once weapon weights are changed but maintaining a 28 strength is probably the most annoying thing about this wipe.






Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: newbie123321 on August 11, 2016, 12:20:44 AM
Yes clan size should be removed its a hassle and waste of time and people are forced to not be able to join a clan which all you needed to do is say hey can I be in the clan? Yes! ok your in?! I mean if anything it should be STRONGHOLD Size because we are all renting in cities anyways how could a clan not hold enough people?
it should be a stronghold that cannot hold people, You should be able to have as many people in a clan as you want. In order to find people, We should not let mages be able to trash teleport! Instead make a new class or CHARMIE that is able to track people and make it a good track that lets you find people and maybe somehow uses a clairvoyance skill as well but will be able to have some temporal path for group to see that is not broken and can land tracks that leads to a door or kw people are hiding behind.If this is possible and this class/charmie should only be able to be played/created/made available when you have a CLAN? probably be pretty cool.
If it could be some charmie you could summon by having to collect a certain something from a zone or something that way we could engage other clans at this new zone because people would have to go there to get this charmie in order to find another clan  or just make it so you can purchase it at your local city mercenary tent that wont be a peace room! can have 1 per clan non targetable does not engage but only last 1 hour or something?
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gnua on August 11, 2016, 01:17:19 PM
it sucks when you see people soloing CT for coins and you're stuck HOPING that the ancient red dragon doesn't kill you.

the charmie dodge foom changes seem to have stopped some of those solo runs
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Malaki on August 11, 2016, 10:37:12 PM
I like alot of the ideas so far.

But a little more explanation on the Group size and Clan Size thing.

I realize alot of people dont run into this, because maybe 2 clans if only 1 can truly rally enough real people to rush and run the wipe that would even run into limits and the downsides of them.  We had so many people the last 3 wipes we actually played that we couldn't fit everyone into a Skype channel for voice chat all at once, and had to break it up into different rooms so we could all voice chat at the same time on skype.  Running up to 5 different teams/groups due to limits and who was what alignment or class.

We had so many people, that certain people thought we were legitimately botting+multiing, which i can guarantee you we were not.

Which by the way if you haven't tried group voice chat, it is so much better and entertaining when zoning in a group.  Seems the audio parsing speed of humans vs reading spam on txt is alot faster.  Not to mention hearing the rage out and ranting or guff going back and forth as the zones and fights are going down.  As well as explaining a fight and mechanics or a strategy on harder fights.  Over all truly more enjoyable.  I just hate skype's all WHITE background.

The clan limit removal would be nice as well, keep the price scale or a per member charge is fine, just when everyone is going to have at least 2-3 characters, if not more.  Makes it alot easier to see whos on and available and utilize the clan tell "ct" and clan who to know whos on and can help out with something.  Without having to manage which of each char can be in the clan, and basically having to give up on the in game clanning and grouping and tell system to utilize skype or mumble/vent.  Or looking up hey did so and so hit lvl 28 yet for this badass book that finally loaded, should we txt or call them to logon? clan who for lvl and rank etc was nice.  And clan messages, etc.

The group limit raising back to 12 or 10 or whatever increase they're willing to do would help out.  Having lower group limits leaves people out, bored, and sidelined   The point isnt everyone should be lead zones, or find some kind of group for something.  It's the game play and fun that you get while playing together with the people you know or want to.  Not all being online and soloing the whole time or doing 2-3 man crap when you want to be running that 3 hour hard zone were still trying to figure out a strategy for as a whole clan or group.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gnua on August 11, 2016, 11:13:08 PM
As a gesture of good faith the entire ban list on Arctic and these forums has been cleared.

Part of me wonders if this is the reason I see more people online now.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Pyder on August 13, 2016, 08:19:22 AM
While you're at it... Do something about the mage quest thing.... What an annoying thing that is.... Atleast for retarded morons like myself.... :)
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Tajs on August 13, 2016, 09:56:55 AM
I like the idea that damage vs players is lower - I'd cut it by, say, 40-50% tho.
And in regards to ranks, I'd love to be able to buy +skills ..like +rescue/punch/bash/scribe etc etc ..outside of the legend ranks. Especially +rescue I miss when playing main tank, your key skill and you can't boost it.

All-in-all exciting times :)

PS: Oh, and plz look at some of the skilling speed for arcane barrier, righteous will, field medic to name..
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: eddiex on August 13, 2016, 05:03:05 PM
Can we add coup and potentially throat punch to the list, two relatively useless skills that have round based cd's, would be nice if slightly easier to train.

p.s. not sure if PvP summoning was changed but if so, please consider reverting it.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Alecto on August 13, 2016, 06:19:01 PM
@eddieX
I feel like coup and throat punch are the only speed bumps in training a thief to legend.  We all know sneak and hide can be done in a few hours, case and steal are super easy thanks to PvP changes in learn.  Thieves need to have at least some limit to how quickly they can legend, esp since they are such monster solo'ers and can be game changers for things like Ancient Keep and Shadow Isle.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Oligo on August 13, 2016, 10:10:35 PM
PS: Oh, and plz look at some of the skilling speed for arcane barrier, righteous will, field medic to name..

Please review the skilling of reclaim. It used to be reasonable amount of time to get to superb back in 2012 when I had a legendary druid named Drunoob, now it is takes forever.

Tajs, you'll appreciate this:
http://normstorm.com/logs/march14_2012.txt (http://normstorm.com/logs/march14_2012.txt)
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Bryton on August 13, 2016, 10:59:16 PM
PS: Oh, and plz look at some of the skilling speed for arcane barrier, righteous will, field medic to name..

Please review the skilling of reclaim. It used to be reasonable amount of time to get to superb back in 2012 when I had a legendary druid named Drunoob, now it is takes forever.

Tajs, you'll appreciate this:
http://normstorm.com/logs/march14_2012.txt (http://normstorm.com/logs/march14_2012.txt)

Skrillex with the loot!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: breiner on August 14, 2016, 12:53:56 AM
Now that we're talking tanking and rescue. Would be nice if you didn't get lagged when you attempt to rescue someone not in combat.
And if typing rescue spirit/corpse would allow you to rescue first spirit/corpse on roomlist in combat. If the shaman has 5 spirits with the same name it
is very tempting to wait for the mob to start hitting the shaman.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Tajs on August 14, 2016, 07:41:25 AM
"Tajs, you'll appreciate this:
http://normstorm.com/logs/march14_2012.txt"

I did, even if I did remember it as some of you died, which log doesn't show. I could be wrong :)
My wee trash mage!
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Oligo on August 14, 2016, 03:22:02 PM
I did, even if I did remember it as some of you died, which log doesn't show. I could be wrong :)

Y'all came out better on that exchange if I recall. I think yall got Shesh's healer set.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: puff on August 14, 2016, 04:44:19 PM
Gnomish power and gnomish dragonlance need to be a set. Or make gnomish power as good as it was when Shub had it.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Pyder on August 15, 2016, 09:31:57 AM
A little input on deeprenting.... Can't it be done so that for the first 24 hours things decay at normal rate, and for every 24 hours this rate increases abruptly?
If you set your char in "vacation mode" it could be rent as usual without the accelerated decay, within limits naturally to avoid abuse... A week or so?
Then if you don't log after your set vacation week, things would accelerate at double the normal rent rate..

That would prevent things beeing deeprented for any prolonged period of time.
Imo it shouldn't be possible to deeprent anything for any longer period than max 2 weeks or some such. (unless in vacation mode, subject to immortal discretion)
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 15, 2016, 03:07:59 PM
Put all limit 1-3items on a 240 hour timer. Only way to keep them is to gain ranks
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Alecto on August 15, 2016, 07:37:01 PM
As someone who frequently takes week long vacations (4-5 a year) I am NOT a fan of a vacation_mode setting.  Give your gear to a friend, or sell it at the world merchant.  If it decays in rent, it decays in rent.  Going on vacation might not seem like its deeprenting, but it still is.  Or just hope its still popping after you return.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Gramm on August 15, 2016, 11:42:52 PM
Yea straight up, dont encourage the deeprent in anyway. Limit 3 or less items foommmmmmm after a 10 day grace period or something
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: phildo on August 16, 2016, 11:24:00 AM
I remember something being said about alignment changes back a while ago.

Having all alignments getting exp with -% for goodies killing goodies, etc. I thought that was a neat idea but I'm no coder so I have no idea how intense that would be to implement.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Jorake on August 16, 2016, 06:50:43 PM
Phildo... I love you
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Oligo on August 17, 2016, 01:51:06 PM
Feel free to post your opinions - happy to hear them.

More prevailing winds spots. Outside of the major druid guilds, NESW branches/reaches, and Irda, there are not a whole lot of prevailing winds spots unless you have legend reclaim.
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: JTPimpin on August 17, 2016, 04:51:27 PM
Ok daniel running the mud now?
I think ill play again. Hoss is number 1 reason i quit.
Glad to have the mud in good hands
Title: Re: Moving Forward
Post by: Ezio on August 25, 2016, 09:57:18 PM
So with weapons going back to relative normalcy, can we expect bone shapes to return to their gloriously average status.