Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: pasta_whee on March 11, 2016, 09:34:52 AM

Title: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: pasta_whee on March 11, 2016, 09:34:52 AM
How is a new player supposed to learn this game and explore all that Arctic has to offer when you can't even find 2-3 people to group with on a daily basis?

How am I supposed to learn end game content to compete with the top clans on Arctic if every time I want to do these zones I get jumped and killed while doing them or you can never get people willing enough to help learn these zones or at least stand there and be fodder while I learn?

How many high end zones are even possible with the current player base? When is the last time someone other than Wilds or the few other top clans(you guys know which clans) didn't load all the lim 1 items in the game and horde them for the entire wipe?

What incentive do I have to learn the end game content when all the end game content is taken 2-3 weeks in to the wipe and then deep rented for the remainder of the wipe to never been seen again. Well you might see the items again if they announce wipe is coming.

I understand a lot of people worked very hard and for years on the knowledge they have of the game but the bottom line is this isn't the Arctic of the 90's where 100+ people are logging on and you can run constant 10 mans and learn all the high end content and super duper solo secrets. This game barely logs on 20+ a day.

So I guess my real questions is...What is being done to fix all this? or as a newer player to this game should I just give up and move on to another mud? I do enjoy arctic but between most the players being to chicken shit to die and learn new things so they can compete with the better players or the players who all ready know this stuff being totally unwilling to help someone out with game knowledge i'm just at a loss

This game is just slowly losings its appeal to me. I wouldn't mind spending hours learning all the cool places in arctic and bad ass dungeons and zones but when 90% of the areas has no loots other than maybe a 2d4 +1 offie that takes 26 str to prim, I don't wanna take the time to learn that place.

You just can't expect to have a healthy player base when every single wipe the same 5 people end up with 95% of all the gear worth a damn in the game and then for the rest of the wipe zones feel stale because nothing ever loads. The decay system is just stupid. It never allows for someone else a fair chance to pop said item. It all ways favors the person who had it first. Unless they deadbeated and didn't log on for weeks.

I mean seriously how many of you know a player who was the only one to either have x item for the entire wipe or been the only player to have x item for several wipes in a row?

Anyways this is just my 2 cents on arctic. I've only been playing this game for maybe two years now.


Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 11, 2016, 11:47:46 AM
How is a new player supposed to learn this game and explore all that Arctic has to offer when you can't even find 2-3 people to group with on a daily basis?

newbie things to do solo:
 - get a level 25 cleric with cloak of bravery, heroism, heal
 - get a level 25 shaman with regenerate, ghostmaster
 - get a level 25 red robe with locate object, force bolt, identify
 - get two level 25 tanks with all skills to v.good
 - pop 3 held autoflies
 - pop 3 detect invises

newbie things to do in 2 man
 - help someone else do one of the above (even experienced mudders appreciate when someone else helps/leads with that beginner stuff)
 - xp to level 28 on two different characters
 - pop 3 small tattered prayerbook
 - pop 3 frosted book with glass covers
 - pop ritual voyage, ghostskin
 - pop 2 npp items
 - pop 2 heal potions
 - pop a fireshield scroll/potion
 - pop a steelskin potion

If you can already do all of that, it's probably time to start clanning
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Super Tacoman on March 11, 2016, 12:55:07 PM
the limited item/deep rent system has always been a terrible problem for people who arent interested in joining the big clans.  everything about this game has always been aimed at the elite.  less experienced players get ignored. 

we can get pkilled at any time with no chance of escape and 0 hope of revenge. we have to grind our way through mid-high zones at best, which were stripped of any useful items in the first week of the wipe and are now deep rented on someone's 4th alt.  if you try a new zone you will find you are required to know impossible keywords that no one actually figured out for themselves and are hoarded as precious secrets that you will never get. 

honest advice - unless you want to join a clan and be an assist bot, then try a different game.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 11, 2016, 01:49:27 PM
we have to grind our way through mid-high zones at best, which were stripped of any useful items in the first week of the wipe and are now deep rented on someone's 4th alt.

with the reduced playerbase, there's tons of eq loading, and there is almost no competition to do zones that load cleric/shaman/mage spells. two dedicated people can do tons even without the support of a clan and might even be able to do better than lower clannies that just get dragged around.  soloing can be quite dull though. there's lots to do but finding the motivation can be quite a challenge.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Valenore on March 11, 2016, 05:09:47 PM
As bad as the new changes are, if you are raging against wilds, longing for limit 1 items, worried about competing with the top clans, and citing player base numbers from the 90s then you don't count as a new player
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Alecto on March 11, 2016, 05:13:50 PM
Who in the world is jumping someone for running a zone at this point in the wipe?  Are you having a flashback from 1990s?

Also, since 2 of the 3 biggest clans in the game are not playing, most of their gear is slowly showing back up in the game.

With ranks easy to get again (thanks to lowered player base) pretty much anyone can legend a melee class 2 man except for the legend mob at the end, and enough whining, begging, complaining can probably get you the group to do that.

Also, the high end content is getting run, there are groups running Silvanesti and other high end content on almost daily.  Just look for more than 5 of the same clan tag and they are probably doing something awesome.  Ask if you can tag along!  Worst they'll say is no, then its time to go back to exploring the mid-highs. 

There's some ridiculously easy-load stuff in the game that is nicer than the weapons from the high-end content, anyway.

There are 200 zones in the game, and only 20 of them can't be run easily by 2-5 legendary characters, even with the home-run-derby style nerf-batting that's been going on. When you know the 180 easier zones you can focus on the last 20.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: reed23 on March 11, 2016, 05:16:20 PM
When there are 8-15 people on at a time, let's be honest, finding someone to group and/or level with is going to very difficult.  Your best bet is to play a dark knight.  They are the best solo class in the game lvl 1-30.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Zozen on March 11, 2016, 09:44:48 PM
If you believe all the end game content is maxxed right now....
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: pasta_whee on March 12, 2016, 08:38:12 AM
Thanks for all the feed back guys. Enjoyed the responses keep them coming.

On a side note! Dark knights are broke. I talked with keila last night and he agreed. It is retarded a cleric at level 1 has more starting hps than a DK who is supposed to be damage/off tank. All though scouts I will say are even worse off. I guess i'll stick with my thief for now.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: snax on March 12, 2016, 10:41:24 AM
Thanks for all the feed back guys. Enjoyed the responses keep them coming.

On a side note! Dark knights are broke. I talked with keila last night and he agreed. It is retarded a cleric at level 1 has more starting hps than a DK who is supposed to be damage/off tank. All though scouts I will say are even worse off. I guess i'll stick with my thief for now.

Dark knights are not broke.  They have been significantly weakened yes.  Their stance perks in defense and offense are much lower as is their damage along with all other classes except casters (and shamans the godmode tanks of the wipe).  However, a 550 hp dark knight can still do things that a 4+ man prelegend group will often mass rip on just by removing all the communication slips and using their class specific variant flavor.  They're kinda like a more forgiving thief-class for dummies, without the need for some of the preps that thieves often use.  They're still welcome in any group I lead, and do provide decent offensive value while having enough hp to not die to area if the healer is preoccupied with the main and casters hp.

  I'm glad you're sticking with your thief.  That's a reaally complex class in some regards with incredibly "wow" kinda moments with some of the things they can do.  Hopefully someone hands you a packets of endless information and logs.  Then hopefully people flock to you in droves.  Best of luck on the game. 
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 16, 2016, 12:36:58 PM
Who in the world is jumping someone for running a zone at this point in the wipe?  Are you having a flashback from 1990s?

Is Arctic PTSD a thing?
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Jorquin on March 16, 2016, 05:05:02 PM
When there are 8-15 people on at a time, let's be honest, finding someone to group and/or level with is going to very difficult.  Your best bet is to play a dark knight.  They are the best solo class in the game lvl 1-30.

Debatable. Thieves and shamans are really good too, just depends on the style you want to play. They all operate differently and can do some areas the others can't. DK probably has the highest margin for error, which would push them towards the "best bet" given the context of this discussion I guess.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 17, 2016, 10:46:04 AM
When there are 8-15 people on at a time, let's be honest, finding someone to group and/or level with is going to very difficult.  Your best bet is to play a dark knight.  They are the best solo class in the game lvl 1-30.

Debatable. Thieves and shamans are really good too

Before legend, DK is by far best solo. After legend, I think thieves are.  the best duos often involve shaman.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: lurker on March 17, 2016, 05:18:52 PM
I think the game is going the wrong direction. Catering to the hardest of the hardcore making the hard stuff harder and nerfing the player-base makes sense only when you have a large growing hardcore player-base. That isn't really the case on arctic.

Back "in the day", 15 or so years ago IIRC, nothing was really all that hard, but PK was a regular risk. IMO those days are what made arctic popular. The hardest zones were not really hard on their own, it was just the possibility of being attacked or ambushed that made everything exciting and fun.

Now, with all the trash pkill rules and harsh penalties for doing things that aren't even explicitly spelled out as against the rules... most of the PK doesn't exist anymore. The only way to make a zone challenging is by buffing hp and damage and such to absurd numbers, because that random pk element is being quashed.

Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with a group based multiplayer RPG without PvP, but 1- there are millions of them, and 2- it's not what made arctic popular, so it alienates the current player-base.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Hoyt on March 17, 2016, 08:04:17 PM
At this point in the game just check world merchant...  no one wants to rent more than 1 prime or offhand weapon because of the steep rent..  i have seen so much plus stat gear and i guess what could be considered nice weapons now (Arctic Hard Mode) in the world merchant lately i was able to gear up my warrior pretty easy was even able to find a plus 5 bash shield there...

I wouldn't even call myself an elite player (far from it) but I can solo any class/alignment to 25 with normal shop gear in under a day play time... and i don't pay the game for gear.  (don't get me wrong i am not above taking scraps)
 
If you want to improve your game join a clan and be someone that is dependable to group with, and while you are grouped make logs study them and keywords for mid level zones are not as hard as you might think more advance zones kw are and do take knowledge of more than just a single zone to figure out. I will admit that it might be a bit hard right now because everyone is a "SPY!"
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: kanu on March 17, 2016, 10:43:34 PM
I'm going to push back on the idea that "back in the days" pk was exciting and fun. It was a pain in the ass. Some trash mage with charm person had a decent chance to pkill almost any character on the mud. Very few people were immune.

What made Arctic fun for me was exploring new zones and learning new strategies for dealing with tricky situations in zones I already knew.

Being pkilled by some asshole with 3 charmes Knights of the Crown was never fun.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Kadaj on March 18, 2016, 11:18:53 AM
Young Adventurer x3 : check.
Haste spell: check.
Brass voulge x3: check.
Level 21 mage ready to take on the world.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 18, 2016, 12:40:22 PM
Back "in the day", 15 or so years ago IIRC, nothing was really all that hard, but PK was a regular risk.

Yes regular PK was a risk but zones were very hard back then.  Mem times were huge (even at 23 int a cleric could not mem a single heal in a resting tick), level 30 tanks could have under 500 hit points, level 30 tourney winning mages could have less than 100 (after permanent hp loss from repeated delevelling), clerics could have around 250.  The same group that won this fight http://www.normstorm.com/logs/aug10_98.txt against the shriners barely took down Aegis and Walcanar and burned all their heals (some of which were looted from shriner corpses). They also massripped to glymmer numerous times. Nowadays people 2man Aegis and Wally and I'm sure some people have soloed it. Groups used to go to Shayds and some would die to stun in nomagic rooms but now people solo it.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 18, 2016, 12:45:05 PM
Young Adventurer x3 : check.
Haste spell: check.
Brass voulge x3: check.
Level 21 mage ready to take on the world.

the only redeeming part about those days was the possibility of hitting back...
fol Albert; #action {^(Mai flies in|You follow Albert)} {bash mai}
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: pasta_whee on March 21, 2016, 02:15:03 PM
l
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gramm on March 23, 2016, 11:39:31 PM
Gear hoarding is the very essence of what makes nerds learn new zone in this game. that will always be a thing... but honestly if you ask me, the worst and most painful change i have witnessed arctic go through, is the pure RAPE, the pure hatef$%@#ing of every single nice item in this game.... The items in this game that people have learned to covet over the years have all at the same time, almost overnight been "indiana jonesed" crystal skull style, i mean just looking back, group size changes sure sucked, maybe was necessary to equal out what was apparently making the game easier across the board in other ways...
sorry i begin to ramble and divert from what i was attempting to get at...
THE worst idea amongst all new changes, which i would place money down on as my bet for what is driving the most players to quit, is changing the weapon stats, being able to go into a little zone like pigmies for that bone sword offy which was honestly pure garbage BUT at the same time a "3d5" option.... was awesome, or the 3d5 +2 hitroll trainer offy in deepmines on bours was awesome for sharpen and mend, or the nv fang from tot for a druid/mage was... AWESOME.
I could sit here all night thinking of awesome items, that are now pure garbage with a +crapsmear for stats

I personally believe that is one thing that certainly contributes to seeing fewer on the wholist.
the mass "generalization" of all weapons sucks... so sit down whoever is in charge of changing the stats, smoke a huge joint... read the lore and look at the weapon names, and decide... should an item named fang of the shadow beast be 2d4 +1 hitroll... or should i actually be creative instead of just severing all that is good and holy from this sweet item name... (not JUST that item...)
If for some reason its too much work to restat all of the items that really need some fixing, why cant we just go back to previous item stats? is there really THAT much of a difference that its worth pissing in ALL OF OUR cheerios?

wouldnt it just be easier for both the people doing the item raping and those feeling the wrath of the mass item whifflebatting to just forget it ever happened... and restore previous weapon stats? i for one am TOTALLY willing to let heals be stupid strong again even on mobs, in exchange for the bone sword being turned into a 3d5 offy from pigmies again... knibb high football rules.

I dont actually know if any of that is even related to this thread at this point.. but if you ask me what i think, its the weapon stats changes that did the largest amount of hemorrhaging to our average # of players online for this wipe. This might be the first wipe ive actually seen game changes, do more damage than warring clans raping neutrals to the playerbase.

That is probably a bastard thing to say, but I am drunk and allknowing and powerful right now, so uhh fix the stats eh.
Or I will douse you in maple syrup and set the wild beavers loose upon ye. If you fix it... they will come....! If you dont fix it.. they will dota2 instead.... and dota sucks, so we really shouldnt be contributing to their playerbase so just fix it gods!

Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Jorake on March 28, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
I agree with the ranting drunk canadian. Stat changes were fine, group changes were fine, even heal needing a bit of eq to be fully useful was fine. The rest.. well, pretty much just destroyed the game I've played for damn near 16 years. Kudos. Gives me more time to league and check out some other muds I guess.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: reed23 on March 28, 2016, 03:05:36 PM
I agree as well.  Most of the people who still consistently played over the past few years probably identified themselves with specific items/sets in the game that they coveted and wanted so badly.  Everyone who plays this game could answer this question:  What item does Grahm want more than any?  Ancient Green Sword.
The stat changes will most likely prevent me from playing anymore.  My RISE friends always poked fun that I am was the one that always hung around after our initial-wipe escapades, but when the items that we somehow loved over the past 15 years and identified ourselves with changed overnight to complete garbage, AKA aspre kilt 2charisma (I'm sure everyone could insert the OMG my precious xxxxx item is now apply 5 instead of xxxxx), its hard for me to want to go through every item in the game and somehow reconnect with a text based game of hunting dragons and wilds.  And to speak of high end gear: the changing of legendary items such as Humas, class-restrictions to dragon orbs, and other top 10 items in the game is rough.  Call us old men stuck in our ways, but that is what many of us are. 
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Chisul on March 28, 2016, 08:57:23 PM
This is how I felt after reading Grahams post.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mGAwNV7WBIQ

Genius!
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Jorake on March 29, 2016, 06:17:07 AM
That's all i have to say about thaat
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 29, 2016, 11:04:01 AM
I'm not sure if this is related to weapon nerfing, but has dolphin bone staff been deleted from game? At first I thought some joker had deep rented all those things. But my clannies said that if anyone was going to deep rent all those things, it would be me.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: pasta_whee on March 29, 2016, 11:52:48 AM
I'm pretty sure I see that item in the world merchant every day.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Gnua on March 29, 2016, 12:13:50 PM
I'm pretty sure I see that item in the world merchant every day.

Havent seen it in months. If you snag one and pm me, i be happy to pay you 10k coins just to know they are still around.
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: jrrestad on March 31, 2016, 05:37:17 PM
Thoughts,

Even with all the gear nerfs, I probably have the best thief set I've ever had.  Which is saying quite a bit.

I will do everything I can to maintain my set as well.  All of my limit 1 items I will try to keep all wipe, so you probably will never see them.  I won't deep rent gear, but lots of gear does get stored that way.

There is very little incentive for you to learn end-game zones for immediate benefits.  However, I am still seeing gear load in zones I've known for ages and didn't know such items existed.  So the things you learn this wipe translates into future wipes.
.
I can't even imagine, especially with recent changes, how impossibly difficult and frustrating it is for soloers or small clans right now.  Super secrets and lim 1 items are terrible.  I've always been a proponent of more gear less limits and restrictions.  The decay system is obscure.  In order to be competitive the game requires you hoard your super elite items, and foom them and reload before they decay.

It seems this game is catered and structured around the best of the best and not balanced for everyone.  I can't imagine why anyone would start playing this game from scratch because there really is too much work for too little reward.  Arctic needs more good.  More gear, more ranks, more options, less restricts, less nerfs, etc.

ramble ramble...
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Jorake on April 01, 2016, 06:06:06 AM
Thoughts,

Even with all the gear nerfs, I probably have the best thief set I've ever had.  Which is saying quite a bit.

I will do everything I can to maintain my set as well.  All of my limit 1 items I will try to keep all wipe, so you probably will never see them.  I won't deep rent gear, but lots of gear does get stored that way.

There is very little incentive for you to learn end-game zones for immediate benefits.  However, I am still seeing gear load in zones I've known for ages and didn't know such items existed.  So the things you learn this wipe translates into future wipes.
.
I can't even imagine, especially with recent changes, how impossibly difficult and frustrating it is for soloers or small clans right now.  Super secrets and lim 1 items are terrible.  I've always been a proponent of more gear less limits and restrictions.  The decay system is obscure.  In order to be competitive the game requires you hoard your super elite items, and foom them and reload before they decay.

It seems this game is catered and structured around the best of the best and not balanced for everyone.  I can't imagine why anyone would start playing this game from scratch because there really is too much work for too little reward.  Arctic needs more good.  More gear, more ranks, more options, less restricts, less nerfs, etc.

ramble ramble...

Jrrestad for Overlord!!!
Title: Re: Arctic Veterans what do you think?
Post by: Super Tacoman on April 01, 2016, 06:41:24 AM

I can't even imagine, especially with recent changes, how impossibly difficult and frustrating it is for soloers or small clans right now.  Super secrets and lim 1 items are terrible.  I've always been a proponent of more gear less limits and restrictions.  The decay system is obscure.  In order to be competitive the game requires you hoard your super elite items, and foom them and reload before they decay.

It seems this game is catered and structured around the best of the best and not balanced for everyone.  I can't imagine why anyone would start playing this game from scratch because there really is too much work for too little reward.  Arctic needs more good.  More gear, more ranks, more options, less restricts, less nerfs, etc.

ramble ramble...

yes!

i wish the limit item system was getting revamped or some new zone was getting put in instead of all the work going toward these weird nerfs that make the game less fun.