Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: Jorake on February 02, 2016, 06:36:57 AM

Title: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on February 02, 2016, 06:36:57 AM
Nerfing weapon stats was a bad move i think. Maybe mess with weights since overall char stats were decreased. I've ran into so many 2d6 2 2 weapons in the last few days, its crazy.

I've played here for a long time, and I've seen various nerfs/buffs over the years. These nerfs are going in the wrong direction IMO. Nerfing stats on characters was the best place to start. The legend payout is so huge that it needed done. I'm not sure what the best course is to do after that, but making majority weapons complete crap now, after nerfing so many worn items ON TOP of nerfing character stats, is going a bit far. 
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Zozen on February 02, 2016, 08:26:49 AM
Why is it going to far? Will people not be able to complete end game content with 2d8 ++ weapons and group sizes 10 and legend? Is the end game stuff going to be harder? Yeah, probably. Unrealistic to achieve? Not yet.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on February 02, 2016, 10:02:13 AM
Not unrealistic, no. Makes the urge to go after certain things not there as much. Maybe its because we are used to popping 20-24dam weapons and different things.

I agree there needs to be some scaling back. Leave things the same and limit how many legends can be in 1 group is another option.

Making things not worth doing isn't the answer though. I heard hydra gaunts got changed to str instead of dam recently. i've yet to learn that fight, and that doesn't give me much incentive to want to.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jang Yoo Sung on February 02, 2016, 10:16:19 AM
hail hydra
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Zozen on February 02, 2016, 10:19:16 AM
Yeah I think u nailed it: it's all a matter of perspective.  What is the new elite?
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: jrrestad on February 02, 2016, 12:06:27 PM
Why did things need scaling back?  More power, more damage, more gear!

I'm just curious, what is the purpose of all this.  Making all these weapons weaker will decrease overall damage output, and perhaps make some things harder, but to what end?  A more difficult game will increase playerbase?  Retain players? Balance the power?

I think the gap between weak and powerful is widening so far, but it is too early to tell.

My question was answered in a different post.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: lurker on February 02, 2016, 02:27:48 PM
I think the gap between weak and powerful is widening so far, but it is too early to tell.

Doesn't this gap make the gap smaller?

Prior to the change, now you have noobs running around with 3d5+1 junk weapons, and elite players using 3d7+3+3ish stuff, pretty significant difference.

After the change, looks like everyone will be running around with 2d6++ weapons, with a few elites maybe have access to a 2d7 or 2d8 weapon.  The gap is getting smaller, not widening.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Dyl on February 02, 2016, 04:01:39 PM
Quote
with a few elites maybe have access to a 2d7 or 2d8 weapon.

Clearly you aren't one of the elites.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on February 02, 2016, 04:21:04 PM
Thats a perfect question. What is the new elite?

One way to look at it is; the weaker people hit the longer pk battles could happen etc. So that could be a +. No one is going to get 2-3 rounded anymore, or unlikely to I guess.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Hoss on February 02, 2016, 04:28:45 PM
2d5 enchantable prime for sale!
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: lurker on February 02, 2016, 05:03:55 PM
Quote
with a few elites maybe have access to a 2d7 or 2d8 weapon.

Clearly you aren't one of the elites.

Au contraire, I have access to 3d6++ weapons still. My garbage is still better than the fixed "elite" weapon drops, at least until it all decays or the next wipe.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Patpat on February 02, 2016, 08:15:35 PM
Quote
with a few elites maybe have access to a 2d7 or 2d8 weapon.

Clearly you aren't one of the elites.

Au contraire, I have access to 3d6++ weapons still. My garbage is still better than the fixed "elite" weapon drops, at least until it all decays or the next wipe.

Wait so if you have access it 3d6 ++ weapons why are you saying the elite people only have 2d7 weapons? Are you saying the weapons your using are 3d6 ++ and were overlooked?

2d5 enchantable prime for sale!
2d6 2/2 from lowbie level zone for trade for lim one unique 2d6 2/2 from high zone!
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: lurker on February 02, 2016, 09:01:49 PM
Wait so if you have access it 3d6 ++ weapons why are you saying the elite people only have 2d7 weapons?

New dropping "fixed" elite weapons are inferior, I never said elite players don't have access to the old good weapons.

We were talking about the gap getting smaller. As in, "getting" there, in the future. Until all the old items are flushed out due to decay or pwipe, that won't occur, but it will eventually occur, unless something crazy happens like the change gets reverted.

It has created a sort of sad state of MUD in that nearly all weapon drops are now vendor trash until the good old gear decays.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on February 03, 2016, 06:15:23 AM
That is also untrue. My mace went down in my rent, hasn't decayed yet. Then i popped a 3d6 ++ weapon from a soloable zone.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: lurker on February 03, 2016, 06:18:44 AM
That is also untrue. My mace went down in my rent, hasn't decayed yet. Then i popped a 3d6 ++ weapon from a soloable zone.

The 3d6 just hasn't been fixed yet, the process is incomplete.

Oh, I see you are saying your sword got nerfed and stats changed in rent. Very interesting, because I know for a fact that one of my thieve's weapons got nerfed, I lored the new version as a 2d6, while the one I have from before still has it's original damage. I think you are either mistaken, or your weapon was a special case.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on February 03, 2016, 11:35:07 AM
Mace of destruction. It was dropped by 1hit and 1dam in rent.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on February 03, 2016, 11:35:35 AM
Could just be because its lim 1 item. I didn't think about that.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Annunuki on February 04, 2016, 08:14:36 AM
A bit Far? this is way passed a bit far. my 3d6 3/3 weapon decayed on me in rent '3d6' enchantable that I had enchanted to 3/3, I log and repop it. its 2d4 2hr now. so I go pop a 3d6 1dam weapon, its now 2d6 2/2. see everyone in the clan got a good laugh when they saw the changes. I didn't, I am a mountain scout who spent yesterday running around hitting weaker than anyone else in the group wonder how any scout is suppost to continue playing. already with the nerf to health 'under 440 at lvl 30, the lack of any healing and the fact fence drops when bashed a mt scout is already group dependant, with the weapons skills dropped I see no reason anyone would want to keep playing a scout. but yet I spend my days walking around with shamans who have 5 charmies and double annih/oblit, while I hit very hard wonder why my damage based champ without healing is being out damaged by every shaman I see, who also fills in as a healer. From what I can see anyone not playing a main tank or shaman had better reroll. Ive seen some changes in my time some good ideas and some bad ideas, but it looks to me like Hoss has decided to rewrite the game to a point It feels like he should be off opening his own mud, rather than ruining the balance of this one.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: reed23 on February 04, 2016, 10:10:39 AM
Ochre Spine now 2d5 2 2.  I haven't seen half our clan log since we pasted the lore in chat
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Oligo on February 04, 2016, 11:25:30 AM
Ochre Spine now 2d5 2 2.  I haven't seen half our clan log since we pasted the lore in chat

Please don't paste lores in chat if lorebot isn't present.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Zozen on February 04, 2016, 12:53:42 PM
I think he's working through weapons first. Then spells is how I'm reading the posts. I'd imagine that spirits/animates/charmies are going to be nerfed hard.  Then we will probably see a rebalancing based on zoning experiences/difficulty. Change is good. Even bad changes. The game was broken.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: eddiex on February 04, 2016, 02:44:04 PM
I don't know if the game will end up properly balanced when all the updates are said and done.  What I have seen is a lot of people being extremely reactive and negative toward any significant changes.  We had a bunch of people whine about 8 man groups, the mud population looks like that might even be high number now.  "But people are quitting!!!" < This is the same time the first wave of people quit every year.  And players for years have tried to use this as a gambit to twist the arms of immortals into gettjng their way. If the people running the game were to listen to the players all the time every nightmare would stun 99% of the time, every player would be allowed to play as many characters as they want, every druid would be no bash solo healing zones, and the top 1% would still have 95% more dam items than the rest of the mud.

I don't know how it will turn out, but I'm interested to see. One of the only valid arguments I've seen is that people don't want cookie cutter items that have different names and same stats. I honestly don't know how that would be addressed due to collapsed ranges for weapon damage.  I am sure this will be addressed if it hasn't already, but shop weapons should be accordingly lowered. I have found at least a few that are as good or better than things you will load from zones.

I guess my point is, people claiming things are going to be unbalanced can't logically make that statement until the changes have been completed some time down the road.  Relax and wait and see how things turn out (or quit until the changes are fully implemented if you can't handle it).  Then maybe a thread like this won't read like pure whine.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Kadaj on February 04, 2016, 05:48:30 PM
I don't even know mystic vault and I know absolutely zero of shoal, I dont even know how to get into the zone, lol. Sounds like David forgot his medicine again.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Quid on February 23, 2016, 09:56:42 AM
We all know it's the weapon name/coolness factor that deals the damage anyway :-)
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Kadaj on February 23, 2016, 12:06:56 PM
It's not about how much damage you are doing, it's about how much damage it LOOKS like you are doing.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Quid on February 23, 2016, 02:28:41 PM
Coolness>all!
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Anthony on February 25, 2016, 01:37:21 PM
It's not about how much damage you are doing, it's about how much damage it LOOKS like you are doing.

Schluck ftw?
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Alecto on February 25, 2016, 05:42:38 PM
Now that I have changed my mud client to replace "barely hits" with "SUPER DECIMATES" and "hits" with "UTTERLY DESTROYS" I am having much more fun killing worms in the Solace sewers!  This is the best wipe ever!!!
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: gulca on February 26, 2016, 09:31:24 AM
Now that I have changed my mud client to replace "barely hits" with "SUPER DECIMATES" and "hits" with "UTTERLY DESTROYS" I am having much more fun killing worms in the Solace sewers!  This is the best wipe ever!!!

Why stop there.

sub solace for silvernesti
sewer for nightmare forest
ratman King for cyan bloodbane
worms for undead squirrels
centipede for undead bears
spiders for mighty beholders

HP *= 100

sub 1d6 with 6d6
now where is supa rusty longsword?
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Gnua on February 26, 2016, 10:12:20 AM
Now that I have changed my mud client to replace "barely hits" with "SUPER DECIMATES" and "hits" with "UTTERLY DESTROYS" I am having much more fun killing worms in the Solace sewers!  This is the best wipe ever!!!

Why stop there.

sub solace for silvernesti
sewer for nightmare forest
ratman King for cyan bloodbane
worms for undead squirrels
centipede for undead bears
spiders for mighty beholders

HP *= 100

sub 1d6 with 6d6
now where is supa rusty longsword?

iron ration -> juicy steak
rat ration -> bacon cheese burger
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Gramm on February 28, 2016, 10:13:22 AM
changing the die roll is one thing, but removing the +stats from items as well like the nv from a certain fang that now has the COOLEST name but is also 2d4 +crap -nv was wrong man, just wrong.
removing the +stats from the items as well as changing the die roll now not only weakens the weapon, it weakens the flavour of them all.
We are left with a bland 2d6 ++ or 2d4  stew, with no spices, and the people that were already winning the game in terms of elite gear before are still winning without probably batting an eye at these changes, really i bet they effect people that need help, as opposed to your top tier players. if your goal was to make the game harder for the top tier players, NONE of the elite weapons should have been safe from debuff. if you were trying to keep the game fair that is for %100 of us.

the die roll is an interesting idea, but the moment someone decided to remove the stats as well im shocked nobody stood up and said "hey man, just hey now...no deal" unless of course the overall idea was to make shop gear equal to something from the end of a zone that takes 5 guys 30 minutes to get to.

i know that you boys are trying a lot of new things, but maybe start by screwing with the people that requested you make the game harder before hitting all the mid level gear, start with the high level gear, lets see how happy the guys asking for more of a challenge are when you make it more challenging for THEM. cause i can pretty much guarantee whoever complained about the game being too easy to you has a 20+damage weapon still and probably bashmods and w.e else was making it easy before still.
but the rest of us are left with weapons that have awesome names, zero damage, and specials removed/debuffed in many cases and most of the people getting screwed with right now never requested any of these changes lol...

it is just sad to witness first hand how many people have just walked away over these changes, making weapons 2d3 as offys and then adding +1hitroll to them so that we cant even enchant them, is how you make dark knights and scouts just quit logging on.
its almost comparable to getting stomped at a war, the amount of people who are just mass quitting, except its not just myth, its every single clan getting stomped across the board and lots walking from all of them.
but what peeves me personally is that again, the people that probably complained and asked for a harder game, probably have relatively the same weapons unscathed by the mass whifflebatting of all other primes. someone feel free to call me a fool and tell me i am wrong in skype or something but i would be willing to make a bet that quested shoal weapons, khur, skullcap weapons are all the same.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Patpat on February 28, 2016, 10:36:35 AM
^
what he said. Changes this wipe made the game a lot less fun to play. Can we just revert back to how the mud was prewipe please?
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Rinad on February 28, 2016, 12:35:52 PM
I have to agree.   It's not fun to spend years of your life devoted to a game, to feel like the staff's end result is to kill the playerbase and leave it open for 2-3 people.  If you want that as your end goal, then why not lock down the game now.   This is a text based game from the 90's. I'm sure many of us could easily find other things to do, but the fun of the game is to see your friends and run a few hard zones and go about real life. Now it seems bland,  as stated before there is no flavor to Arctic now and it's no different than the other muds out there.  The uniqueness of the game is gone and people probably won't come back.  It seems like your end goal is to kill the game?  If so tell us now, so we can move on with our lives.   

That's my .02 worth.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: snax on February 28, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
The elite clans are running around with the same range of damage weaps as is obtainable by the rest of us, it's just they got their stank together and are doing more with their smaller phallus of smiting, which sadly is also not nv, but that helps if the ho be fugly.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Lyam on February 28, 2016, 03:11:44 PM
gramm.. you are a fool :)

all weapons have been nerfed... and the elite weapons now (from what I have seen) require 28str to prim it.... so this now means that I can no longer have the 15dam I required last wipe to log on.. I now have to balance it out with a lot of +Str items to wield said elite

I have also noticed using a 2d6 ++ weapon (which is quite common now days) with like 2dam I can still massacre... until I get to those stupid knights that always shieldblock so I then bruise..

i do agree that some of the nerfs have gone overboard... like said fang... which is now something to sell to wm for the 20coins you can get for it...

BUT i am sure that the nerfing/tweaking process isn't completed yet... so give it a little while and im sure that the individual flavour to weapons will come back a little...
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on February 29, 2016, 06:28:53 AM
No way. Mace of Destruction was still 3d6 2 2. FAR superior to most other things. So i'm sure all the big boy weapons are also decently statted. It doesn't affect top tier as much as you think and it doesn't keep the playing field even. Simple fact is, they got their weapons and shit first so they are still ahead of everyone else, but also scaled back just like everyone else.

I quit playing like 2weeks ago or so. I'm already on another mud doing my thing or playing league of legends. All these changes were to much for my liking and just done in a really really bad way. We were going in the right direction at first and then we stubbed our toe and closed our eyes; hopped around in a circle for a few moments, then whatever way we were facing when we opened our eyes up, thats just the way we went!
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: oom on February 29, 2016, 12:49:37 PM
^
what he said. Changes this wipe made the game a lot less fun to play. Can we just revert back to how the mud was prewipe please?

OH MY GOD THIS!
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: breiner on March 03, 2016, 11:22:14 AM

its almost comparable to getting stomped at a war, the amount of people who are just mass quitting, except its not just myth, its every single clan getting stomped across the board and lots walking from all of them.

Before nerf we were 10+ players. Now we're 1+ players. Can't repop any of my decays cause no people are interested in logging on.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Gnua on March 03, 2016, 01:20:10 PM

its almost comparable to getting stomped at a war, the amount of people who are just mass quitting, except its not just myth, its every single clan getting stomped across the board and lots walking from all of them.

Before nerf we were 10+ players. Now we're 1+ players. Can't repop any of my decays cause no people are interested in logging on.

I thought the problem was that people can pop decays but dont want to because they are 2d6 2/2
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: oom on March 03, 2016, 03:12:54 PM

its almost comparable to getting stomped at a war, the amount of people who are just mass quitting, except its not just myth, its every single clan getting stomped across the board and lots walking from all of them.

Before nerf we were 10+ players. Now we're 1+ players. Can't repop any of my decays cause no people are interested in logging on.

I thought the problem was that people can pop decays but dont want to because they are 2d6 2/2

I think it's a bit of a cycle.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorquin on March 04, 2016, 04:20:30 AM

its almost comparable to getting stomped at a war, the amount of people who are just mass quitting, except its not just myth, its every single clan getting stomped across the board and lots walking from all of them.

Before nerf we were 10+ players. Now we're 1+ players. Can't repop any of my decays cause no people are interested in logging on.

I thought the problem was that people can pop decays but dont want to because they are 2d6 2/2

I think it's a bit of a cycle.

Hey I heard you like quotes, so I put some quotes in your quotes so you can read while you read.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on March 04, 2016, 07:30:29 AM
Why are you guys destroying the game Daniel? You want everyone to quit so you can finally shut down or what? Put the mother bapting nerf batt down for a while, jeez.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Alecto on March 05, 2016, 09:40:17 PM
I think the powers that be just wanted to show that classes that can have lots of pets (clerics and shaman) are the best classes in the game.  They have succeeded.  If the current changes to equipment stay the same expect to see 8 mans made up of one supertank barb with every lim_dam item they can fit and 7 shaman or clerics running around with 20-30 pets doing all the damage.

Not that anyone should nerf shaman or clerics - without them the end game content would be almost impossible, however, I would suggest that druids at least get to have up to five "stone-based" elementals at a time - they are not equivalent to shaman spirits but at least would give druids a reason to play with the nerf to their healing.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Jorake on March 07, 2016, 06:33:16 AM
It honestly feels like someone up there is just like "OH we have the power to change shit? Let's change everything, BECAUSE WE CAN!!!" They're just playing kick the can with arctic, because they got jack shit else to do I guess. No one around with any power to say "youre killing the game, knock it off"
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: jrrestad on March 07, 2016, 11:59:36 AM
Just to chime in...

Gramm, weapons are being nerfed across the board.  2d8 2/2 seems to be the standard for 'elite' weapons now. 3d8 3/3 for 2handers, 3d9 2/2 is a nice find but usually requires 24str.

4d5 2/2's getting nerfed to 2d6 3/3

I am using a 2d7 2/2 offy but 28str to hold, prime also requires 28 str.

I don't know if these changes were to make the game harder or something else.  Certainly they have been annoying.  I need 28strength to wield my weapons fine, I will spend 8rank points and hoarde +str gear.  I will even kill Lacuna for it.  I will wear extra gear past 28 because if a str decays and I can't wield my weapons I can play.  I will lie to my clannies when they ask for a spare str when I'm holding at least 3 extras in my chest. 

8mans, higher str requirements, weaker weapons.  These haven't prevented anything.  Have they slowed me down?  Not really at all.  However,  I can imagine how rough it is for someone without a clan, or who just dt'd. 

If there is a bigger picture other than, 'too strong, game break, make weaker', then we'll just have to wait and see what it is.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Gnua on March 09, 2016, 06:33:32 PM
although i dont mind the new weapon stats at all, should the rent on formerly elite weapons be scaled to match items of similar power? i just sold a blessed elven to the world merchant because:
 - i needed some str gear to wield it
 - it did not do much more damage than stuff i already had
 - it cost a whole lot to rent

i might have kept it if only two of the above three things were true
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Dyl on March 09, 2016, 07:25:40 PM
Goal achieved.  Items now load.
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: Gnua on March 15, 2016, 03:47:50 PM
it felt like before the changes, the weapon classes often had trade offs in terms of damage, but now that damage has been normalized should we revisit the trade offs?

Before damage changes
 - shortblades and piercers: often did less damage than long blades (or harder to pop for similar damage), but could backstab so thieves tended towards it
 - bludgeons: often did less damage than long blades, every class can use it, doesnt get stuck in baaz draconians
 - long blades: every tank class can use it, dk's are particularly good for it.
 - axes: often a bit better damage (or easier to pop for similar damage) than long blades, but paladins cannot use it
 - pole arms: often better damage than long blades but barbarians cannot use them
 - two handed: bastards often better than damage than long blades but almost never offhandable and requires a bit more str to use

Now that the damage of weapons are pretty much the same (though shortblades and piercers feel a little weaker), is there much point in using anything other than long blade/bludgeon as a prime?
Title: Re: New weapon stats
Post by: SArT on March 19, 2016, 12:43:50 PM
And people gave me so much shit when I requested a legacy server when they brought out lube.  Don't you wish there was one now?