Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => Questions and Answers => Topic started by: Mick on April 17, 2020, 11:11:58 PM

Title: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Mick on April 17, 2020, 11:11:58 PM
After rolling a neutral warrior (cause Gully) I wonder why anyone would roll neutral? I realize the idea of neutral player gets xp anywhere but when the xp penalty is so large..ranging from 40 to 75% there is really zero point to playing a neut character for xp.  Could maybe the levels be looked at because the penalties seem to make it prohibitive to ever playing a neut char (I certainly wont make that mistake again).
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Dagda on April 18, 2020, 02:53:32 AM
It's easier to spread out your xp zones, so you never max out on a zone. But.. you start off a lot lower :P. Gear access is a little bit wider range too.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: corey on April 19, 2020, 12:22:40 AM
Masochists
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Zozen on April 19, 2020, 12:38:16 AM
Masochists

This.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Lloth on April 19, 2020, 05:58:09 AM
As a soon to be R4 evil, it's not greener on that side either. The lack of medium difficulty good aligned zones is rough. Killing the same knights/guards/elves gets boring quick. Goodies have it pretty good! The grind is crazy, but at least you have some variety.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: gulca on April 19, 2020, 08:00:50 AM
If you dont have a plan on leveling, then you should make one.

The trick is usually dont share the max xp with other chars. Then you will be guaranteed of getting a set amount of xp for a particular zone.

This is important because going solo means a limited number of mobs you can kill at low and mid levels. You want to get full xp per mob and not maxed nor shared.

Another trick is never die. Dying doesnt remove your max kill list. Losing xp and maxing on the mobs you just killed is a double whammy.

When you are desperate, every char has a limited list of maxed killed mobs. You can push the recent maxed mobs out with a variety of low level mobs. The point here is replacing your recent maxed xp mobs with any easy 0xps mobs. Each needs to be tag differently. Eg do not go kill solace citizens a million times. That counts only 1 mob in your list.

Once you are highish level enough, xp is just a side thing that comes with zoning and popping items.

That all being said, neutral does suck compared to lawful evil or lawful good. There is really no good reason why it should continue to be that way.

Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Kam on April 19, 2020, 10:09:05 PM
At some point, somewhere in the last 15 years or so, people just stopped making zones with neutral mobs in them.
We have been (and still are) hard at work to bring you more neutral mob content to help with the struggle of leveling.

As someone who has pretty much always played neutral aligns, I like to think of it like just a higher difficulty level for the game. Wimps go good lawful, decent players go evil, but the pros go neutral!
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Zozen on April 20, 2020, 02:25:37 AM
Only class to make neutral is red robe
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Gnua on April 21, 2020, 04:45:05 AM
After rolling a neutral warrior (cause Gully) I wonder why anyone would roll neutral?

i've almost always gone neutral shaman for gear selection.  only reincarnation has changed my decision.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Malthros on April 21, 2020, 10:13:46 PM
I always went neutral for flexibility (xping and gear to some extent) but now I'd only swap to neutral after reincarnating 'enough' and hitting legend on a character.  Reincarnating multiple times as a neutral sucked last wipe, though getting more neutral high lvl zones could make it better in the future.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Zozen on April 22, 2020, 03:37:55 AM
Just change deep mine aligns to help neutral. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: corey on April 22, 2020, 09:06:20 PM
Just change deep mine aligns to help neutral. Problem solved.

Not at all. Evil mobs needs to be moved to neutral, not goodie.

Change storms and Neraka to neutral, problem solved!
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Zozen on April 23, 2020, 03:22:05 PM
Oh I like this game, change: terzaks and village of mortigoth to neutral.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: joesux on April 23, 2020, 04:42:39 PM
Read magic.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Gnua on April 23, 2020, 06:30:48 PM
Just change deep mine aligns to help neutral. Problem solved.

Not at all. Evil mobs needs to be moved to neutral, not goodie.

Change storms and Neraka to neutral, problem solved!

another possibility might be to make align change a little quicker.  killing a holy good mob could perhaps give much bigger alignment change.
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Lloth on April 23, 2020, 07:20:14 PM
The payoff with being neutral is having the ability to wear a lot of gear that is either anti good or anti evil. Neutral can definitely wear the most amount of +damage items in the game. I think the easier option would be to play good or evil until you are done reincarnating and then make the switch. The amount of time it takes you to switch aligns will be far faster than exping as a neutral on your 4th, 5th or 6th reincarnate. 
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Nasredin on April 30, 2020, 11:04:10 AM
A few other reasons to make a neutral:

1) gully dwarf. Even though I found that race not at all better than hylar (somewhat better dex, but it doesn't compensate for lower str), some ppl actually play them.


2) The red robes (the "read" robes ;--PPP  ) were already mentioned here. However, there is also a role of a companion of a red robe, usually a tank or a shaman. If my main char is a red robe, then a dk or a paladin - or any other good/evil char - are hardly a good companion:

If I do, say, an evil zone with a neutral mage and a paladin, the latter will get almost twice as much xp as the red robe and level faster. When the paladin becomes 2-3 levels higher, it will take most of the xp, thus slowing the progress of the mage even further.


3) Limited game knowledge. All the reasoning mentioned in this thread had a 'clan leader' type of player in mind, the one who knows every single mob in the game and can choose the most optimal way of powerleveling.

Now consider a newbie (imagine that, there are still some newbies in the game), or a typical occasional/returning player. Imagine further, that some zones get deleted, others get changed, and our occasional player only knows 3 zones appropriate for their level: 1 good, 1 evil and 1 neutral. Worse yet, they died a lot and are already maxxed in 2 zones out of 3. In most cases, the 1 remaining zone is the least appropriate for their align and thus their progress is severely slowed.

Even if they decide to explore something new, they may get unlucky and stumble upon the mobs inappropriate for their alignment. A neutral char makes the progress slower, but more reliably.


4) And here we finally come to the issue of exploring. Once again, the 'clan leader' types already know everything and even if a new zone gets added, they enlist the help of the elite forces of their entire clan to quickly learn it.

Now, an occasional player is likely to go on explore solo or with a small group, and neither of them are likely to be very elite. A neutral char is much less likely to attract the attention of xenophobe mobs and thus has a much better survival rate. Or at least more time to read the room descriptions and try the kws without getting disturbed by those knights of the Rose or whatever.

Plus, exploring the zone is not limited to mapping it and making the list of loads. The difficulty of the fights, the time required for them and the xp rewards are also important - all that information may be used later for preparing the future leveling plans (e.g. for the next reincarnation.) However, if I explore a good zone using a good char, my xp gains are reduced to zero and I don't get reliable information on how much xp each mob is worth.

P.S. The same problem arises when I explore a new zone by a char at 1x. Here is an idea how to fix that: change the messaging. Instead of

You receive 0 experience.
The dragon is dead. R.I.P.

Provide the following output:

You would receive 654321 experience, but you're already at 1x.
The dragon is dead. R.I.P.

Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: mpriki on March 16, 2021, 02:02:31 PM
Neutral is great.
no restrictions , like no restrictions sex
Title: Re: Why would anyone play neutral?
Post by: Malthros on March 22, 2021, 11:22:23 PM
A few other reasons to make a neutral:

1) gully dwarf. Even though I found that race not at all better than hylar (somewhat better dex, but it doesn't compensate for lower str), some ppl actually play them.

Gully strength vs Hylar is negligible and vastly offset by the dex difference.  Personally, I miss reincarnating into a good aligned half-ogre. :)