Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: btown on June 04, 2013, 10:00:25 PM

Title: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 04, 2013, 10:00:25 PM
I would just like to say that I have not lost the love for this game.  However some of the players definitely make you turn your head but that isn't why I decided to quit.

One reason I quit is because all my clannies quit me which was sad but no biggie it's a game and I got over it without any long-term emotional effects luckily.

But anyway I had a GRAND PLAN like none ever before!!!   I was going to roll unknown characters change my name and pretend to be from the 70's to restart my mud career on a totally different level!!  new friends new places oh boy was it gonna be fun!

So there I was rolling and rolling!  Damn I even pegged a great kender roll! Sweet life is good...  or not...   All of a sudden I was like "holdup!"  this is going to take FOREVER.   

SO I QUIT

fix the xp tables and i will play again.    Last wipe I had 3 legend characters.   ..  this wipe i started on day 1 after much anticipation and the most i have is a rank 16cleric and a level 14 thief.

This is only because the game is now more work then play..  If you can make it fun again then please re-invite me back...  If you decide to make this wipe last an entire wipe like usual i probably wont ever come back..  these xp tables have really screwed this wipe. 
 
   Love Brandon
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Bryton on June 05, 2013, 04:53:18 AM
Cool story bro
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 05, 2013, 01:12:25 PM
although i never thought i'd say this... i agree with brandon. i mean, i don't care... but he's right.

the way the xp tables are set right now its geared towards an epic grind-fest of xp that discourages players and makes attempting to level outright boring.



tldr: huge xp tables discourage players.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Gnua on June 05, 2013, 06:18:14 PM
Maybe some of the better (more popular) guilds and races could use the current xp tables and the less popular ones could have reduced xp needs.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Willoe on June 05, 2013, 07:27:17 PM
I would also tend to agree to this...It has made soloing a character up to being levelable extremely slow and boring. I've been lvling a dk and grinding for a few hours a day and due to lack of players have been doing it all solo(cry fest I know)...However this is extremely dull and I can imagine how this can turn any new or returning player away...It's one thing to have such high experience to level when you have lots of people playing and people grouping, but to have to grind it out by yourself is just silly. You have to be level 26 to get decent experience in high level groups and the exp from 20-26 is just stupid.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: gulca on June 05, 2013, 11:20:24 PM
I also hate the new xp table as a solo'er.

I was gaining 1 rank per 1 level after level 20. I was almost rank 20 by the time I reached level 30, and when I legend my warrior, I still have 30million xp to reach 1xp.

I guess the only good thing about the huge xp table is discouraging trash char. I use to be able to level up different support classes but now I have to consider seriously before starting a new class.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Super Tacoman on June 06, 2013, 12:05:35 AM
with the big xp tables people only want to level 1 character.  last wipe if our healer isnt on, someone else switch to their healer.  this wipe if our healer or tank isnt on we might as well not even play. 
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 06, 2013, 02:53:45 AM
it was a bad change and it needs to be fixed.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: kmark101 on June 06, 2013, 03:04:11 AM
I really wanted to play this wipe but attempting to levelling 2 times 2 different characters, the amount of boring xp'ing totally discouraged me around lvl 20. So I have decided to wait until they change this.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: RaVaN on June 06, 2013, 03:07:46 AM
  I personally didn't mind the xp table change.  It did make me just zone early on versus grinding xp powering through the levels.  It made the game a bit more fun for me since I made moves earlier than I normally would.  I usually only play on character so it just doesn't bother me.

  That being said, /100% agree with changing it back.  The fact is that there were a few returning/new people that I know quit due to the grind necessary...which for those inexperienced people it just plain sucks.  I mean really REALLY sucks....especially when they are trying something new and get hammered back to what took them a day to do because of one mistake that killed them.

  For experienced players, it isn't such a big deal but for the new/returning it does no good and is just bad bad bad.

Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: reed23 on June 06, 2013, 05:45:21 AM
I really enjoy the xp part of the game ONLY when there are people available to xp.  With that being said, i thought the current wipe changes to levels 20-28 were a bit extreme.


Level 20:  11000000-13999999  (  2999999)
Level 21:  14000000-18999999  (  4999999)
Level 22:  19000000-26999999  (  7999999)
Level 23:  27000000-36999999  (  9999999)
Level 24:  37000000-48999999  ( 11999999)
Level 25:  49000000-63999999  ( 14999999)
Level 26:  64000000-80999999  ( 16999999)
Level 27:  81000000-99999999  ( 18999999)
Level 28: 100000000-119999999 ( 19999999)
Level 29: 120000000-144999999 ( 24999999)
Level 30: 145000000-179999999 ( 34999999)

To level from 23 to 24 is 10,000,000 xp now? haha i mean that is nuts.  If you have a solid 5 man its not so bad, but the fact of the matter is most people lvl up with 1 maybe 2.

If i were in charge i would revert back to the old xp tables for levels 1 - 25, slightly increase them for levels 25 - 28, and 150% them for 28 - 30.  This would prevent the trash slightly but also enable people to lvl to high "grouping" lvl rather quickly.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: RaVaN on June 06, 2013, 01:39:25 PM
  I like your plan reed23.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Nasredin on June 06, 2013, 04:05:01 PM
For experienced players, it isn't such a big deal but for the new/returning it does no good and is just bad bad bad.


Quite on the contrary. The biggest problem for the new/returning players is the lack of ability to find interaction. Not even necessarily a group - what about a pk opponent of equal level? When was the last time you participated in pk with both sides having non-trash chars below lev10? Right, 10 years ago or so; these days everybody is lev15+ just a few hours after the wipe. Certainly, you may invite a newbie to your clan and level them to 25+ or whatever in no time, but i personally find being the "assist dummy" more boring than anything else.


Then, the level suggests a certain choice of zones. Basically, if everybody is 25+, low, mid and even many mid-high zones have little to no role in the game. Certainly, a mid-lev zone may have half a dozen rank mobs, 1-2 nice loads and maybe a hiding spot, but all that could be safely moved to the nearest high lev area and the rest of the zone thrown away. In fact, keeping even that isn't really important - high zones provide bigger ranks and better eq.

On the other hand, if it takes time to get to the end game content, all those mid lev zones suddenly become important, the quests worth solving and the eq worth keeping. Thus, the game becomes more diverse, which is good. After all, if it were only the end-game content that mattered, why not make every char lev30 from the very beginning and save every player some time and effort?

In reality, the whiners aren't really bored by leveling itself. What really pisses them off is that other ppl know the game better and were not so arrogant as to learn only the few highest zones. Now the ones with diverse knowledge get their fun from lower zones, and explore more and eventually level and proceed to higher ones, while the loosers keep whining because now they're too low to do the 3 ultra-high zones they learned from the logs without ever exploring anything themselves.

An example came to my mind: the Wayreth tests. Everybody i talked to enjoyed them. And yet, you go to Wayreth at lev10, not at lev30. There are other low and mid zones that are just as exciting if you consider them per se, not as a lengthy boring intermediate step before proceeding to the "real, lev30" game content.


Third, getting to the end of the game too fast leads to boredom and frustration. Once a caster gets all the spells, what they usually do? Roll a different char and play it. The less time it takes to get a new spell, the less it is valued and the faster playing the char becomes boring.

Same with exp. The easier it is to get levels, the less enjoyable is the moment when you finally level.


Finally, almost everybody who posted in these thread dislike the new exp tables. My statistics is different: when i discussed the new exp with my groupmates in the game, most of them either liked it or were neutral. Just they didn't care to post their opinions here.


Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 06, 2013, 04:26:47 PM
oops
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: RaVaN on June 06, 2013, 11:07:52 PM
@Nasredin

  I think you have a pretty big handle on my own view of the game and we probably are pretty close in mindset on how it "should" be played.  Theoretically, I don't disagree with anything you posted either.  Realistically is where the problem lies though. 

  There are points in leveling that even when doing zones it just sucks and is a grind whether solo or in a group(unless it is with a group of very experienced people who are sneaky bastards and know how to do the high end zones on very little/low level) since you are trying to get to a point where your skills actually work consistently.  Usually this is around lvl 20-25ish.  This is also where the xp tends to put you in a limbo state of not enough xp to too hard of mobs to kill for the gain.  A lot of this comes down to a better balance, and I realize that there are a lot of areas where this is not a real issue for those that have put the time in to figure out effective zoning while leveling. 

  Now, that is with relatively experienced people  who know what is going on in the game.  You throw in new people or returning people(out of the game for 4 years or more) and it expounds that issue.  This is even more true when the player base is down.  Add in to the mix death by stupid...and what you have is a long long dark period of why bother.  I have seen too many people hit this point that were good players who loved to play that quit for it to be just a "they need to suck it up/buncha whiners" deal.  Especially when I don't disagree with them that usually between lvl 20 and 25 just is boring as hell generally..even more so solo.

  I think Reed's fix is the simple solution and a good idea for protecting the new/returning people.  It's a pretty good balance.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Loretta on June 07, 2013, 01:45:17 AM
I guess ppl just cant made new unknown bot team in less then 8 hours and this discourage players.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Hoss on June 07, 2013, 03:08:03 AM
Quote
I think you have a pretty big handle

@RaVaN , ease down there fella this is a family friendly forum
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: gulca on June 07, 2013, 03:44:53 AM
I guess ppl just cant made new unknown bot team in less then 8 hours and this discourage players.

It might have the opposite effect. It is so hard to level different char that you might as well bot up and level all of them at single go.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 07, 2013, 01:46:35 PM
The pre-wipe is over,  NOBODY wants to spend days upon days upon DAYS to get to level 30 just to be randomed and hunted and then that char is worthless too.

I mean I am just sayin,  if I could level like the old days I would still be playin some char..  but as it is now it just requires to much of my time.

Back in the old days you and some others could have quit and decide you are gonna roll a new clan or pk squad "part of the game"  buy a 12pack of beer and go nutz by the end of the night you are zoning and pkilling..  now that's fun.  this shit you have us doing now is just ridiculous.

P.S.  I liked the xp tables at the beginning of wipe..  but I think after a week of the wipe it needs to go back to normal.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Loretta on June 07, 2013, 01:51:14 PM
Back to old days i was trying to get level 30 for like 2 month with my first clanned char. And i lost like 30 hps permanently to delevel shit. And it doesnt dissapoint me at all. Your old days arnt old at all i guess.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 07, 2013, 02:10:38 PM
nice..  that was 18 years ago?  Loretta do all of us a favor and go slap your dad for ever sleeping with your mom and making your dumbass
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: gulca on June 09, 2013, 04:02:45 AM
If the xp table is here to stay, please reduce the minimum skill requirement for class skills to like lvl 20 instead of 25.

That way, classes like robes will have a pet to help out, and ease the grind at lvl 20+.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Homard on June 09, 2013, 03:35:54 PM
  I was a new returning guy last wipe.  Hooked up with a clan after leveling to 26 or so and enjoyed the wipe.  Died a lot, but it never really hurt too much.  I was a casual player.  A few hours here, a few hours there.  It took me the whole wipe to get one character almost to legend.  I didn't legend due to my own stupidity.  I rolled one guy to level 10 this wipe and quickly realized that the new tables would make it impossible to play as a casual so I didn't.
  I'll play next wipe if it looks possible for a casual, if not I won't.  I'm not whining as it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.  I expect I'm a lot like other returning 30 somethings though.  If the game is work, it's not a game.
 
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Gnua on June 11, 2013, 04:38:53 PM
Somewhere around level 20 with no one to group with, I figured I would have to quit or bot. I decided to quit because botting sounds just as boring as soloing. Maybe real life getting busy had something to do with quitting, but real life has always been busy and I made time to MUD simply because it was a whole lot of fun.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Slunt on June 11, 2013, 04:54:09 PM
Ever now and again a topic like this comes up.

nasredin points out the richness of the game and the rewarding mid level content available. Thing is i have tried time and again to find this rewarding mid level content and i just never can seem to. I would say i am a fairly experienced player and i have even solved a few zones by myself and in my clan setting. But i don't seem to ever find these mid level rewarding quests and content.

Maybe i just need to be exposed to the process of finding it.  I say this because i do love this game and i'd love to spend time playing it but can't. Exploring lower level content in my spare time could be a good way to still be part of arctic.

 I was about to play this wipe and rolled maybe 1 character and leveled to 10 but its hard to find a game into everyday life currently.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 11, 2013, 05:41:24 PM
Aristox/Hoss  Can we get a "thought of the day on this subject" ?  I mean if you guys don't play mortal chars why torture those who do?

Do you not want us back?

Do you hate us?

WHAT WOULD IT TAKE..  do you want  money??  im paypal you some money right now but this better be fixed by morning

but if you think im gonna spend another month of my time getting to lvl 30 ur nutz!

And now I would like to apologize for my previous typing of words



Not Atahl Happy About This
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 11, 2013, 09:22:49 PM
revert xp tables, reduce nightmare stun chance further, reduce punch/bash damage, nerf animate, pwipe.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 11, 2013, 09:31:24 PM
DANIEL!?!?  don't you want anything done at all??  the main problem is the xp tables atm lets fix that!  but I will agree with everything you said
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: reed23 on June 11, 2013, 11:06:17 PM
Nightmare doesn't need to be nerfed, it never stuns people except the rare exception when 4 BIAs got stunned.  Also, animate needs to be buffed, not nerfed :)
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: gulca on June 12, 2013, 02:00:18 AM
revert xp tables, reduce nightmare stun chance further, reduce punch/bash damage, nerf animate, pwipe.

Many ways to make nightmare less potent:

1. Stuff like Mind blank, zombify should counter nightmare.
2. Non combat "wake" should counter nightmared ppl.
3. Brilliance should lower nightmare chance.
4. Darkness should increase nightmare chance.
5. True seeing should counter nightmare.
6. Less potent during the "day" time. More potent during "night" time.
7. Cloak of bravery should +save against nightmare
8. Kender immune nightmare

Many ideas already thrown out on animate, but this has been such an old spell probably it will never get changed ever.
Make "turn" work on animate corpse to have the following effect
1. they flee away even when master is in room
2. lower their hr by -20 or something when failed save
3. they stop following the master when failed save
4. Their hp goes to 10% of their max when failed save

Punch and bash, I like it but thats because I'm biased.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Hoss on June 12, 2013, 03:00:44 AM
I am going to refrain from posting to one side or the other, as I don't want anyone to get a false hope of 'oh they are going to do X, YEAH' or 'BOO' but I did want to drop in and let you all know that we are reading, we are discussing, we are drinking beer.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Aristox on June 12, 2013, 03:43:54 AM
I will second everything Hoss said except replace the drinking beer part with burping a 2 month old.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 12, 2013, 03:59:11 AM
i know who's winning that trade off
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: snax on June 13, 2013, 04:25:29 AM
i know who's winning that trade off
definately the man married to the milk engorged dispensary -at least for a few more months.  Although, in about 12 years, I'ld say hoss will get my vote.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: reed23 on June 13, 2013, 05:19:30 AM
Please, hoss while you are drinking your beer and aristox while you are awake with the baby at 3 am reading this, change the decay system.  It sucks.  Make all items subject to a timer that accelerates when items are in rent for long periods of time.  Love, Reed
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 14, 2013, 04:18:33 PM
comeon!@!! #aristox #hoss  put some news up!
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Davy on June 14, 2013, 08:05:38 PM
I have had one Legendary character. This wipe playing my single character I took a lot longer to reach 1x. However besides sucking, being clan less and not having 24/7 mud time as well as short a ton of spells I am close to rank 20 and the glimmer of hope I will have a Legend Cleric. I like the XP tables because it even outs with the fact by the time I was level 6 my ranking career was underway. If I played more then one character I could see the XP tables licking old saggy balls. But as a casual small fish in a cat fish pond I love the XP/Ranking just how it is.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 17, 2013, 08:41:18 PM
http://arctic.elay.org/index.php?voteid=0&action=Vote&pollid=167&option=poll

Can the immortals give us a glimpse of hope?
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: reed23 on June 18, 2013, 08:20:46 PM
It wiped 3 months ago almost to the day...  Shouldn't wipe until lube because it will just be another bandaid.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 18, 2013, 08:25:08 PM
who are you kidding...  I am waiting for LUBE like I am waiting for the colonization of Mars..   just fix the xp tables so atleast a few people come back until whenever

and yes they are broken
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 20, 2013, 09:58:17 PM
I keep hoping to see news and of course there's none. 

I think if you changed the XP tables back to normal you would see a flood of old players return to level some crap up.

I can vouch for (1) <--------------------

 I really just want to pk loretta
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: DrRobertHand on June 21, 2013, 02:54:34 AM
The rent system would need to change for me to play again.

I've tried coming back a handful of times in the last 10 years or so, and it always ends the same way.  I get busy/distracted for a week or two and when I log back in all my stuff is gone.  That is such a kick in the pants, it is no surprise there are not any casual players.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Nostramazos on June 21, 2013, 05:38:59 PM
Hey all,

@Nasredin. You got it right, rest of you got it wrong.

@those people who complain about the xp tables, many of you want to be level 30 within hours to go to the big zones to get the big gear. Not on your main char, but in all your 20 chars. You are what we call in Maza Nostra "eq freaks."

Don't pretend that you care about newbies or the inexperienced and the looong xp tables. It is sad. We have grouped with you. We know how you zone. There is no talking, no laughing, no farting. You speedkey through zones, you loot eq, give to your clannies for their multies. Deaths are just a hassle because now you have to do the whole circuit again. Newbies? You wouldn't go near them. They would just slow you down. They type slow, you have to explain things to them and the frustration of certain leaders is palpable: You can hear it through the screen and the text.

You want to hit 5 zones within 2 hours and arm yourselves with as much gear as possible. You want to brag about damage and if you lose it with no cr, you freak out. Freak out as in block capital letters about how you hate all and you quit. Then you become immortal and you pretend how you never really cared about eq or how it was not about eq after all etc etc.

There are great zones in this game that are mid level. The new exp tables made us for the first time to actually zone before 30, to group newbies and not be in a hurry, to enjoy the game by killing gully dwarves and stepping into dts. Your complaints have nothing to do with new players because you have never even been close to a new player. You just speculate and arm yourselves by running your circuits.

@Aristox and Hoss. Times have changed and mud needs to reflect that. You cannot have smaller clans like Maza and Myth in the same boat with big clans who compete over gear. Both clans have recruited new players in our numbers and we have been teaching them the game. But the threat of pk related death and the actual killing against our clans from a number of individuals (or one individual not sure) made the new players quit. When we talk about waste of time in this game, we really mean that we want to zone, have fun and not get pkilled on the way because your current eq freak spelled up mage was bored.

You need to give small clans who do not bot the chance to be PK free somehow. Have a limit on the high end gear they can acquire, we don't mind and we don't care if we don't have no bash items (really, seriously, we don't care). Or have available mediocre clan eq (once SH is build the smith can sell them) which cannot be used from the pkillers and make us unworthy targets. A 4d4 weapon. A 2d7 offhand. A heavy shield. An +1str armor. Something. We will make due and we will wear those all the time.

But somehow, take the threat of pk off those clans who just want to zone. Make it their choice for fun (for years there was talk about an Arena that people could go and have pk fun without any losses). Fix that and you will even see KOS coming back.

Nostramazos
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 21, 2013, 06:24:22 PM
omg..  you sir have picked the wrong game.

newbies are awesome because they are easy to manipulate.

I didn't say or wasn't really implying to fix the xp tables to bring newbies back..  I want them to fix the xp tables to bring me back!  fk the newbies! 

Maybe the game isn't for me anymore because I lost my desire to grind..  I have zero interest in doing level 20 zones and I would prefer to start at level 25 when making a character just to avoid all the BULLSHIT. 

Ok that's a good idea now that I thought of it..  lets make the new starting level 25 and keep the xp tables the same.  And MAZA and MYTH can start at level 1 and sing kumbaya all the way to max level 25.  25+ is pk zoneing

HOLYshet!  this is a great idea the more I type abou8t it
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Nostramazos on June 21, 2013, 08:10:45 PM

Oh I wasn't really referring to you personally, I got your point across ok. You never talked about how newbies ache from long exp tables. Others did and I am referring to them.

However, as far as I understand it, you want two games, one of which will be curtailed to your need to do higher zones only. I like that idea too. Get all the eq freaks together, add to your chars an extra head and leg for more vestments, drop you in a zone 35+ with the best eq ever and have you live a life of intrigue and excitement and constant struggle with only the occasional fits for losing and quitting.

Apart from that leave those exp tables alone! Or I will press the red button.

Nostramazos
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Davy on June 22, 2013, 02:41:02 AM
I'm going to buy Oblivion use all the cheat codes and never die because I like being all powerful without any effort. Then I'm going to mushroom stamp old lady's with my man part on their forehead, shake baby's and kick a dog to feel tough. I might discover the cure for cancer but I won't share it because knowledge is powerful and I'd rather be one with knowledge instead of having many to enjoy life with. If I don't get all of this I'm going to whine like a whore pissing fire from a bad case of the clap. Just saying.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Ymir on June 23, 2013, 11:26:24 PM
I think Nasredin & Nostramazos have nailed a number of issues on the head.

Once upon a time most of the MUD populace that was heavily involved in exploring the game and learning the vagaries of the game. I reckon most of the players that still play this mud have been at it for over a decade.. ergo the complaints of mindless levelling to get to what they see as the end game of the high level zones and big bad gear... As Nostramazos and Nasredin have touched upon, for these players all the parts of the game that come before might as well be gone and done away with as an annoyance, i.e. the xp table. It has been worse and harsher but that didn't keep us away a decade ago.

For these players quite simply no big bad gear = a game not worth playing, losing it is losing the reason to play, ergo hissy fits and eventual quits either to the tedium of repopping decays or to regear after a pk loss, even though there is more elite gear available in game and a smaller competitive pbase to chase it than once was. As Nostramazos has also noted, all this repop is tedium because the point of the game is no longer to have fun in camraderie but to accumulate shinies and we have over the years of playing this game become so good that we now have so many that all we do is chase after it in the most efficient manner possible in the few hours that we can squeeze out of our busy lives for this game.

All that time feels wasted when we lose what we had. Especially now that we have grown older and life has cut into our available time. As Nostramazos noted the game has changed, but something they missed I think is the playerbase motivation has also changed, I think the very idea of what is fun or why we play this game has changed. The frustrations and cut-throat and merciless dynamics that once were even more in your face in this game, used to egg the earlier playerbase on to play more and to conquer. These for various reasons no longer drive us as most folk have at one point or the other overcome most of those challenges and moved onto the dynamics Nostramazos describes of efficienct zoning at high level zones. The attitude Nostramazos champions is, quite frankly strange and unreasonable.

Quite simply most of us still only playing for old times sake and the false sense of achievement that this can give, or some are just still playing to hang out with old friends for old times sake or even just habit. Those who didn't get to see the shiny gear or just followed the older players around before but are now finding that they must fill the shoes if they want to snag the shiny gear that once used to be hogged earlier by those now inactive. I'd posit it's not the game dynamics that have changed but the playerbase, after a decade or more really we just realized that we no longer want to climb that xp hill or eq hill for the 100th time unless it was made easier for us. if it was, it wouldn't truly be a challenge either, and so not really sure how much longer we would stick around. Case in point, the really short pwipe durations because zone, eq and spell levels have hit saturation so quickly.

Maybe it's just time to move on to something newer and fresher, a natural progression for players of any game.
Congratulations, you have won the game and boredom and tedium is the prize for continuing to play.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Kragg on June 24, 2013, 12:46:17 PM
Some GREAT stuff in this thread.

Some simple, quick ideas on ways to improve the game while LUBE grinds along.

1) Nerf relocate so you can only relo to group members and further restrict the ranges on all the track, temp path, hunt skills.  Also, improve opt anon to include all levels up to legend (legends would have to declare).  Legalizing botting could then be considered as it would be possible for others to play the game unmolested.

2) change the rent system so you can play this game casually without so much of a cash restriction.  75% bonus if your rent is under 500 coins per day and 50% if its under 750 with any bonus negated if you have a limit 5 or better item on the character.  If you play this game lots, cash isn't a problem.

3) Have the website/forum display the number for all players rather than for all visible players so the number isn't quite so pathetic.

I haven't played seriously for 15 years and its pretty early in the morning but I think these changes would help matters. 


Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Oligo on June 24, 2013, 03:36:25 PM
1) Nerf relocate so you can only relo to group members and further restrict the ranges on all the track, temp path, hunt skills.
There have been enough nerfs to mages over the years that the days of an uber mage like Salnik, Loafie, or Kiaransalee terrorizing the mud are over between the whole casting level system, the conclave system, and relo lag nerfs. With the needed nerf on mage area damage, even threats like Isabella no longer exist. With the aggressor flag system and timer, there are enough safeguards. Arctic is one of the few full-loot games with PvP and PvE. There are enough PvE only games, no need to neuter Arctic into one.

If you play this game lots, cash isn't a problem.
Cash is very much class dependent and dependent on which inn you call home. Rent can range from 0.8x to 2.0x. Barring thieves, cash is a problem for a lot of classes and is just one of the many grindy aspects of the game unless you dedicate zoning to farming coins. Legending a char with full ranks is $300k+. If you are part of a clan, then you have stronghold assets to worry about. When BSP made their SH in Neraka a couple wipes ago, you need about $3m just to get it off the ground and be functional. Some clans play where the chieftain loots for the entire zone and doesn't split coins. So I think your statement is a gross over-generalization. If for example you are an elite 10+ dam warrior. You can't solo for coins because you're a big pk target and when you do log with your clan, you're too busy popping your decays to farm for coins and your rent is probably anywhere from $8-12k+/day.

Anyone with 500 or 750 coins rent is only renting glowing recalls.
A mid-tier set of eq ranges from $4-6k and an elite set is $8k+/day.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Kragg on June 24, 2013, 05:29:06 PM
Hey Oligo

Points taken and I agree with all of that but

1) I was thinking of people starting out with the low rent discount or the people who want to play 5-10 hours per week.  As you point out, this would have no benefit/down side to the mid or advanced player.  At least that casual person could wear a budget set up.  Most people have real lives now and we would see more old faces hang around if there was an option for them between nothing and mud all the time.

2) The relo attack is such murder on new/casual players that I think its worth nerfing it.  Mages can get buffed elsewhere.  The other ways of finding a player take effort and there would need to be a reason to spend that effort.  I also disagree there is much a new or casual player can do about relo bombings (1: in how it pinpoints your position, 2: the new/casual player's relative level of knowledge, and 3: the defense spells mages have).   And who cares about balance?  Right now, which class is balanced? And if you think of one, what is it balanced with?  I imagine those are all LUBE questions.

3) I have trouble envisioning how that nerf would negatively impact PVP hugely.  Nerfing relo and enhancing opt anon may improve PVP overall because a beaten clan could start new characters and build up more effectively than present.    I, as I pointed out, haven't been around much and may be naive about it all.  It seems to me though, that after a few huge battles, everyone quits playing and is waiting for the next wipe. 

4) That nerf could open the door a crack to multi play and botting being allowed in the future.

I don't know really, I just want to generate some really easy and quick ideas to help change the feeling that mud death phase is upon us while LUBE is in process.

I am not really sure why I even care but I seem to.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 24, 2013, 06:06:24 PM
if you're really worried about the trash pking, just increase flags to 35 mins

much harder to hide for that long
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Oligo on June 24, 2013, 06:45:56 PM

2) The relo attack is such murder on new/casual players that I think it's worth nerfing it. 

There are no new players to Arctic. There are only recycled players, ie. players who quit and return a few wipes later. The only player base Arctic has is its alumni and even some of those have been alienated, ie. Daniel or the Finns. Eventually over time, less players return and the active player base erodes, which is the current path Arctic is on.

If a true newbie joined Arctic, it would probably take them 15 minutes to find their respective guild in the revamped Solace, if they didn't even quit out before then, even with the guide.


Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Kragg on June 24, 2013, 07:47:00 PM
re: new players

My, we are on the opposite sides of a few issues.  We should chat out of this forum sometime so its not a total thread hijack.

For sure not true on the no new players thing.  While inactive it was the only thing I cared to help with here and I firsthand interacted with them.

There are new players, or there were 2 years ago when I bothered with that so its probably still the same.  I stopped bothering because nobody else cared.  I would say there would be one or two true newbies (after checking their connection) that would come to light every second day or so.  For a variety of reasons, we just keep none of them-even the ones smart enough to self start.   For sure, none would reach a level you would notice in the parts of the game that most interest you.  Other muds peetering out etc could provide a trickle that we, for lots of reasons, don't take advantage of.  But whatever.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 24, 2013, 08:08:31 PM
I know of a newbie who plays 5-6 hours a week..   a true green horn.  so they are out there..  he has quit several times to dead beating.
 

my little brother who is 14 also plays slightly and has leveled up to 15 I think last wipe with minor guidance.  he started to play this wipe but he doesn't like the xp changes and thinks it's now impossible to get back to where he once was..  level 16.   lol
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Oligo on June 24, 2013, 10:43:43 PM
I stand corrected on the no new newbies. But the underlying premise remains unchanged, the outflow of players exceeds the inflow of new players creating a net loss to the playerbase.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Kragg on June 25, 2013, 01:10:25 AM
Absolutely agreed, outflow exceeds inflow.  Its not hard for outflow to exceed zero retention of new players and addicts becoming casual players as life happens.  We have managed that downhill slide for a decade even while the game mechanics have imo never been better.

Soo... back to my original post at grasping at quick, easy changes to increase the casual flow pre lube by making it at least possible for casuals and new players to play here.

Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Rezin on June 25, 2013, 01:31:46 AM
First time poster, long time player, yes the mud has been losing players fast over the years...if we just focus on whats going on this wipe and why ppl are quitting so much...I have 3 friends that have recently tried either coming back and playing or just starting a new char to avoid the large clan pk wars, my first friend was pked at level 12 randomly by sob just cause they didn't recognize his name...my second friend started a new mage and was killed within 2 hours of starting before he even hit level 10, I think the most irritating thing about this wipe is the fact that these large clans get so hell bent on pking each other or finding 'unknowns' they start killing people who don't want to be involved.  A lot of us alumni or players come back don't want anything to do with the back and forth clan pk bullshit, we just want to explore stuff we used to know or play just for the love of the game, however these legendary mages or big clan randomers are literally trying to ruin any semblance of fun for everyone who may be playing...I don't know if they are trying to force a pwipe, or just get bored cause they are out of enemies who pose a threat cause instead of having fair battles they jump any clan that does 10 man zoning and has gear, I don't know if its been discussed but perhaps putting a restriction on clan tags from pking non clan tags, or maybe a clan declare war system, but these clans log 10 ppl and literally kill or bash anyone they come across, we all say and think that bots are being used and in a lot of cases it seems blatently obvious...it kinda seems like either theres no high level imms active any more, or they are just turning a blind eye to it, I remember 15 years ago if you had a large group going around killing anyone, basically randoming, some imm avatar would come wipe them out as a lesson, or if a high level randomed or killed people neutral or low level they would end up on a wanted board and attacked by any guards in any town...I think the xp changes are a great thing, I don't think every single player should have 10 legendary multis, make a character an actual effort that takes work, I think allowing ppl to start ranking way earlier than 1x and the fact that you lose a negligible amount of rank % when you die balances it out...fix the large clan kill anyone on the who list cause they MIGHT be your enemy problem, and I think a lot of people wouldn't have quit in the first place
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Nostramazos on June 25, 2013, 02:03:11 AM

 I am glad Kragg insisted on that point to correct Oligo. Yes, there are new players. This wipe, in Maza we had two total newbies and one returning (last time he played was 15 years ago). Had is a kw.

 I want to make clear that there have been, ever since I started playing, two trends in Arctic: a) the one that bigger clans follow, with competition for gears, spells and eventually pk and b) the one that smaller clans such as Maza Nostra and KOS, even the Horsemen back in the day followed, which involves less competition, more exploration and more death. Both are fun in their own way, I guess, and both follow a different mentality to the game. The fact that some hotshots could never group with the second group (because for example would get frustrated at how slow we moved through a zone) does not mean that the second group does not exist. Nor does it mean that somehow the second group has lost their way in the game and we only wish that a great leader with Humas all over his muscular greased body would lead us through all the zones in 15 minutes and gives us eq that we've been dying to learn.

 So if our way seems strange and unreasonable, let me tell you: as many of you know, you have been the butt of jokes and ridicule for a while now and if ever Suf allows for non-pk related logs then some of you will be so embarrassed...despite being no bash and 30damage.

 In the past Arctic could accommodate both. Us, making fun of you, and you, killing us.

 In the aftermath of a declining player base, then, we need to ask the question which of the two groups benefits Arctic the most and work towards their advantage. And there are indications that the group who still thinks Arctic is just a game and not a secret way that scientists, who are all now in prison for treason, discovered to enlarge small penises, is the one benefiting Arctic.

First and foremost, our clans have had the same clan names since ever since 96 which is a clue of the strong associations we carry into the game wipe after wipe. We identify with clan and friends. Secondly, we are not prone to hissy fits after losing our eq. We are not prone to hate after we get pkilled and whining. Thirdly, we cater to new players. Fourthly, by and large we do not cheat to get eq on our hands. We are consistent zones and we are there every wipe unless...

...the other group of eq freaks wants to chase us out for no particular reason. You see we don't want to waste time to pk people who are online (because they share or bot) 24/7. They want our eq but we don't have eq, so they just want to kill and they are relentless. So they are ruining our fun with the same determinism they stick their extremities in plugs to get a shock and a thrill. But they are also the ones who will quit out of boredom or because their best buddies has +1damage more than them and they hate him forever.

And while we are chased out, they are chasing themselves out.

Nostramazos Profit Ilias! 
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Hoss on June 25, 2013, 02:04:47 AM
I thought that this thread was for us to discuss Btown's hermetically sealed shame basket? Let's get back on that subject.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 25, 2013, 04:44:29 AM
instead of maza propaganda about why arctic communism works
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Hoodoo on June 25, 2013, 05:44:01 AM
Everything that Nostramazos just said.   Yep.   That's exactly how to describe it.  I couldn't find the words to say it better.  I love Myth when it's just like the Maza he described.   Honestly, the times I didn't enjoy it as much were the times when we were being pulled into the 'other' group by 'elite' leaders who wanted to turn us into a 'real' clan. 

Turns out, they had some of that 'cheating' flair too.  Can't have Myth without the DTs and the Whee!

Jason
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Aemon on June 25, 2013, 06:25:56 AM
Hi, long time reader, first time poster. I generally avoid the forums because the thread trails are predictable. The original poster (OP) complains about something, Myth or Wild pile on the whine, Maza add sarcastic humor, some imms chime in, Daniel and Corey make rational points, and then Hoss gets bored and locks the thread. This pattern is then repeated. Like Arctic, it's a good waste of time.

I'm the current chieftain of SoB in title, but within SoB we all have an equal voice. In the past month alone, we have grouped before with Myth in Ravenshadow and helped Maza finish Cloud Kingdom in full and have no animosity towards either clan. But sometimes in Arctic you gotta kill people because of direct or indirect association. Other times it's because you need gear because of unforeseen circumstances, this is the nature of a game with PK. I have seen/read/heard the accusations of botting from imms and mortals alike. I could point fingers and name names of bots in our enemies, dele and BiA, but there's no point in driving away Arctic's most experienced players and the folks who provide us competition. I certainly don't want them deleted or abyssed. Any report of some bot army killing everyone on Arctic is false.

The fact is, in the past month, one mage player from SoB has comprised nearly half of the pk deaths. And the remaining PKs are split between a dele bot trio, the failed Dargaard mage bomb and resulting fallout, Russians, and 10% other.


2013-06-01 04:27:29 Draoi killed Nimeria.
2013-06-02 04:46:26 Essovius killed Elhoce.
2013-06-03 10:59:07 Chorillo killed Kleg.
2013-06-03 11:08:41 Drizzle killed Alanis.
2013-06-03 14:16:51 Essovius killed Mellune.
2013-06-04 12:24:51 Bram killed Bram.
2013-06-04 17:07:37 Olas killed Opree.
2013-06-05 14:36:30 Lashric killed Qwine.
2013-06-06 01:09:20 Yhonk killed Rippit.
2013-06-06 11:59:33 Lulu killed Ephraim.
2013-06-06 15:59:36 Kog killed Lashric.
2013-06-07 08:17:36 Lulu killed Attai.
2013-06-07 10:00:54 Qwine killed Narotras.
2013-06-07 14:03:49 Pango killed Jozheg.
2013-06-08 01:22:38 Narotras killed Gulwar.
2013-06-08 01:52:43 Swibelgluck killed Kirito.
2013-06-08 21:57:46 Veigar killed Gulef.
2013-06-10 22:26:05 Veigar killed Lashric.
2013-06-12 08:21:56 Kip killed Ludruid.
2013-06-12 08:39:20 Mumu killed Kip.
2013-06-12 22:01:14 Alanis killed Agravaine.
2013-06-13 08:41:30 Gron killed Gron.
2013-06-13 16:10:45 Mumu killed Kip.
2013-06-13 21:32:58 Mumu killed Narotras.
2013-06-13 22:27:46 Olas killed Jay.
2013-06-14 03:42:14 Essovius killed Dion.
2013-06-14 12:57:01 Jozheg killed Jozheg.
2013-06-14 19:08:30 Essovius killed Vindoloo.
2013-06-14 19:19:43 Essovius killed Quentas.
2013-06-15 13:22:03 Moinier killed Veigar.
2013-06-15 17:59:43 Kharne killed Domri.
2013-06-15 23:33:26 Inverse killed Wieramon.
2013-06-16 11:59:59 Nimnogg killed Mumu.
2013-06-16 12:00:15 Cathan killed Swibelgluck.
2013-06-16 12:00:28 Nimnogg killed Essovius.
2013-06-16 12:10:15 Gran killed Yhonk.
2013-06-16 12:10:20 Nimnogg killed Aemon.
2013-06-16 12:10:31 Nimnogg killed Inverse.
2013-06-16 12:10:36 Spew killed Royderage.
2013-06-16 13:15:11 Chorillo killed Laozi.
2013-06-16 13:28:06 Chorillo killed Olas.
2013-06-16 22:49:34 Essovius killed Kenable.
2013-06-17 01:06:09 Essovius killed Rypt.
2013-06-17 08:57:23 Swibelgluck killed Lashric.
2013-06-17 11:13:07 Muhnnummun killed Muhnnummun.
2013-06-17 18:15:51 Essovius killed Waol.
2013-06-17 21:27:48 Qwine killed Pinster.
2013-06-17 21:27:48 Lonestar killed Ramsey.
2013-06-17 23:31:54 Chorillo killed Schiff.
2013-06-17 23:42:48 Chorillo killed Wormic.
2013-06-17 23:43:22 Essovius killed Syncill.
2013-06-18 20:09:11 Mumu killed Gord.
2013-06-19 07:44:50 Atla killed Krombacher.
2013-06-19 07:47:20 Kirito killed Mondrian.
2013-06-19 18:14:45 Alcibiades killed Alanis.
2013-06-19 18:51:56 Essovius killed Lashric.
2013-06-19 19:38:29 Essovius killed Gragi.
2013-06-19 21:36:26 Blake killed Aabb.
2013-06-19 21:36:28 Veigar killed Biaze.
2013-06-19 21:36:28 Veigar killed Muhnnummun.
2013-06-20 04:16:57 Essovius killed Lashric.
2013-06-20 11:49:10 Shiva killed Oira.
2013-06-20 16:53:26 Stupid killed Rumplestiltskin.
2013-06-21 00:17:12 Essovius killed Naphtali.
2013-06-21 22:53:49 Kirito killed Lashric.
2013-06-23 00:49:34 Inverse killed Thoven.
2013-06-23 01:33:06 Qwine killed Hughes.
2013-06-23 09:37:46 Kuhkuhkuhkobra killed Cinthir.
2013-06-23 13:20:23 Essovius killed Kiras.
2013-06-23 13:20:35 Essovius killed Worbar.



Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Basher on June 25, 2013, 09:39:25 AM
PKilling happens, that's a risk you run on the PvP full loot MUD.

Arctic is gear competitive and clan based warfare is a resultant social dynamic. Clans are not necessarily groups of best friends or even cohesive followers of one leader. They are cooperatives pursing game goals.

Flushing out unknowns is a natural result of the highly competitive clan situation and dynamics, as the pklog shows it is not a new invention by SoB or something that only they do. dele does it, Wild has done it, go back in history and Brotherhood and Shriners even have done it, and in a good 85% or 90% cases, most of the clan intel is on the nose. This is reinforced by experience, where some chars that have been ignored mostly turn out to have been the decision that comes back to bite you in the butt.

We do have unfortunate collateral damage however and most clans are considerate enough to return gear when a mistake has been realized. This depends on wether the victim's eq or whining is seen as convincing or lying BS, or even if he runs his mouth enough to have annoyed the hunters or not.

Flushing out unknowns is a time-honored and well defined battle strategy with a strong grounding in competitive logic. It is however NOT random. There is nothing random about it. It serves very distinct purposes.

1) It keeps the enemy from using non-tagged or "unknowns" to repop gear or to regear
2) It keeps the enemy from making new characters that can then ambush you
3) It can load extra gear that high rents cause the hoarders to transfer out to other chars

You can avoid it by keeping channels of communication open with the other clans. Not always, but quite often (depending on how easy it is or how likely it is they may tip off the suspect), especially of late due to the declining pbase we tend to ask or receive inquiries from other clans about unknown chars to clarify their identity if suspected as an enemy alt. Unfortunately this does leave the newbies in a bit of limbo.

Similarly we see "newbie clans" dragged into the wars because they have indirectly stepped into the warzone. None of the "real clans" really care for the rubbish that qualifies as gear on that tier, unless they are really really hard up. Typically they step into the warzone through actions seen as assisting the enemy clans. These are not unknown rules, they are time-honored arctic traditions that are well defined and clearly known.

You do not have the right to whine about being dragged into the war if you have put yourself in the firing line.

1) Group warring clans at your risk - this always runs the risk of running into an unforseen battle situations that involves your carebear clan
2) Harboring warring clan members or their multies because you will be liable for their activities
3) Help warring clans gain xp, regear or repop items i.e. group with them at all

The recent spate of whining by Maza / Myth can be directly tied to taking one of the risks above and having it go against you. In which case your only hope is good PR, most clans are generous to newbies since there is no point in killing them really. It just depends on much their activities have been an annoyance, how their PR with the other warring clan is, how diplomatic and sanguine you are about it, how much your clan mates run their mouths, how much of a dick the warring clans want to be.

If you do have any "real gear" however, you are always game, be prepared to defend it, that is what is Arctic is about, if not unfortunately either Arctic has to change or you have to quit playing this game.

If you want to have a discussion about pk or excessive pk, you cannot have one without taking onboard the social dynamics of the game that drive it. The above post is because I see a serious lack of the complainers for change trying to address the issues that are part and parcel of the above governing principles.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 25, 2013, 01:24:22 PM
all these points are way to long to read..  quit derailing this thread!  this is about shitty xp tables!
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: RaVaN on June 25, 2013, 02:55:43 PM
@Basher

  "Flushing out unknowns is a time-honored and well defined battle strategy with a strong grounding in competitive logic. It is however NOT random. There is nothing random about it. It serves very distinct purposes.

1) It keeps the enemy from using non-tagged or "unknowns" to repop gear or to regear
2) It keeps the enemy from making new characters that can then ambush you
3) It can load extra gear that high rents cause the hoarders to transfer out to other chars"

  You ignore the fact that this just leads to lots of 1vsuperiority and ultimately leads to no big fights...all of which is boring as shit.

  It works and there is no argument about that IF THE GOAL IS TO MAKE PEOPLE QUIT!.  So rather than a vibrant wipe filled with large clan battles...you end up with trash killings and no enemies to fight, which leads to yelling about the game is dead and make it wipe...and so forth.

  It is a lazy long term strategy that is based only in ego that is detrimental to the game and continues to be (in my opinion) the major reason that is not RL based that has led to a continuing lower player base.  Tradition does not equal good sense, but as always, too many people live in the instant gratification mindset and have little or no foresight of cause and effect in the long term.

 

Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Basher on June 25, 2013, 03:34:30 PM
all these points are way to long to read..  quit derailing this thread!  this is about shitty xp tables!

Level one up already. If you are just looking at level 1 to 1x you are on the wrong boat. If you are looking at level 1 to Legend then the current setup is actually way faster.

1) You don't have to be 1x to get rp's and you don't even have to be 1x to be legend!
2) Level up in a group of less than 5 and more than 1 and you get bonus xp.
3) Just get your lvld up buddies to spam you quest xp if you are really too lazy but you will still have to grind it out at the top to get to Legend.

@Ravan

Maybe it is boring and maybe it does lead to no big pitch battles and totally suck when you are the one down and out, I've been in both situations as have most warring clans and maybe it is even a strong contributing factor to people eventually quitting them.

The truth is no one gives or receives any quarter because at that level the game is so intensely competitive because of the setup of the game social dynamics have just evolved in that way. Opt anon and none of the other cosmetic changes work because underlying fundamental dynamics of that social interaction remain unchanged - The need to prevent the competition from sneaking up on you once you get on top.

No top clan wants to give the other one the room to rebuild and launch a sneak attack of unknowns and put them in the shitty spot once they have the upperhand. Once you are top it also just as insanely hard to dislodge that clan by new entrants for the wipe. The history of Arctic is littered players so buff that they just had to log to make whole 10 mans recall and rent, we have moved a bit from those days. Maybe we need to move further?

That's just the brutal truth, because the elite gear like nobashes and spells like stun/nightmare makes things so lopsided in any evenhanded battle that you want to both monopolize them and deny your opponents the opportunity to get their hands on them for as long as possible. You can blame it on the dickish greed of the guys on top or the result of the sneaky subterfuge of the ones below trying to work their angles through trash pk, sneak attacks and other means, but believe me chasing down unknowns is a shitty and annoying job too, usually undertaken by the most bored or the one with most time in any clan, unfortunately getting lazy about this is just bad strategy if you don't want to be one whining in the forums and quitting.

We don't live in an ideal world, where everyone will behave in the manner we want them to in order for things to work the way we envision they should. There is a reason it is this way, and if there needs to be change, there needs to be a change in the governing dynamics.

Glad that the conversation on this has atleast started.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 25, 2013, 03:46:29 PM
Only reason I made this thread was because I have became extremely bored of xping and it got so bad I decided to stop altogether..  that being said I still want to play but the xping is to hard.  I also don't like the fact I have to type and read a lot...
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: RaVaN on June 25, 2013, 04:08:52 PM
@Basher

  So from what you posted, the goal of large clan battle is to force your enemies off the mud and keep them off until both sides get so bored they quit.  It's a winning strategy from a competitive point...but how is that fun?  This is primarily why I don't join big clans since it just is not fun for me win or lose.   

  I am beginning to think that a good solution to this mindset is that after the first big clan ambush both clans get deleted and a big news page gets added that says "CLAN X WINS"...then the competition can continue without the silly unknown chasing going on...this would also allow the smaller clans to be able to compete for the top gear when they then get murdered, both clans deleted...and the cycle continues.  Granted there would be issues that would need to be sorted out but I would think that would be more fun for the top clans and would retain more players throughout the wipe.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Rezin on June 25, 2013, 04:33:18 PM
I agree with ravan, the big clans that like to be elite and do big clan battles and get bored when there isn't any, is it really constructive to ambush every single clan that may give you some real competition so they can never get a leg up and provide any real challenge?  I would imagine once you ambush everyone and make all the other clans give up that is when the 'carebear' clans start getting jumped and killed due to someone having a idea that its one of your enemy's unknown level 10's...and if collateral damage is just part of it, how should a neutral clan go about ending the clash if they don't want to be involved, sure mistakes happen, but then the neutral clan has to get peace from 3 different factions within the same clan, and they will still jump the neutrals if they happen to be with one person who didn't want peace, now you have made any neutral clan people give up and quit as well, if that is the goal then well done.  The elite clans/players that are active every wipe have all been around for 15-20 years, that part of the mud population cant come to an understanding between each other and at least keep the shit to themselves?  The way things are going now, SOB has run out of elite players to war or compete with, that's why it is completely impossible for maza/myth to get peace, your main pkers are bored and will kill anyone they can that left.  Killing to try and stamp out peoples low level unknowns is one thing, when you decide anyone who is opt anon must be the enemy and has to die, that discourages everyone, and its done under the attitude of kill first see what gear they have, sort it out later, 50% chance they will be belived and actually get out of the system. Unless a different attitude is taken with the way this works, your not just pking your enemies, your pking the entire mud and it will be dead soon enough.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Kragg on June 25, 2013, 05:18:58 PM
@ btown

The thread has been hijacked.  Get over it!

@ basher

What a great set of points.  That touched on lots of stuff.

I agree it is the top clan's job to compete as intensely as possible to stay on top and use every even sort of reasonable tool at its disposal to do so.  It's, ideally, the beaten clan(s) job to use every reasonable tool at its disposal to reverse the loss.  The 'king of the hill (best eq and spells)' domination of the mud is the 'fun' payoff for elite players.  Thats arctic at its best.

Now, due (over a long time) to:
-equipment, skill and spell quality inflation
-a reduction in the number of casual and neutral players amongst which to hide and rearm
-the ease of finding anyone on the mud

The 'King of the Hill' game is over after the first few big battles though there are still a few strategies like playing at off peak hours that still work for beaten clans to reequip.  The wipe goes stale once these battles are decisive.  Its in no one's interest that you actually achieve what you have to strive as hard as you can to achieve.  Not even your interest.

In my view, it is a staff role to manage tweaks that prolong the 'king of the hill' phase of the wipe as long as possible. 

Addressing the first point is difficult and IMO a big part of what happened over time.  Changing this is labor intesive, unpopular and rarely 'fair' although balancing, I imagine, may be part of that whole LUBE thing. 

Its possible to address the second and third points with minor tweaks that don't sissify the game (offer comments on my suggestions?) and don't affect the pk nature of Arctic.  Basically, Arctic has to be that mud that if you come out of the inn, your stuff is in play.  Period.

It benefits everyone though to have some casuals and new players so that great ones of each can perhaps add to Arctic's story.  It also benefits everyone that beaten clans can pick themselves up, dust off and get back in it.



Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Basher on June 25, 2013, 05:42:10 PM
@ RaVaN & Lipman

I do not disagree with either of you. On introspection, maybe the unstated aim of all the clan war strategies adopted eventually since time immemorial has eventually just amounted to forcing the opponents off the MUD and into slinking around the corners as desperate hunted dogs. In effect the most effective means for a clan to dominate and keep their shinies does indeed seem to be to stamp out all competition. That may also be the reason why the vicious cycle is so ingrained in the system of avenging your dog days and showing no mercy to the other.

Then again, clans sometimes also do sue for peace and are granted those as well, but few are willing to put up the indignity of it to their pride imposed by the conditions of eq surrender to the other that they would rather quit or have the clan disband with the stragglers who still want to play then returning to the mud as scattered remnants until the next wipe. The history of Myth and Maza also attests that after getting knocked up a bit for ending up on the wrong side of the fence they have eventually been peaced, so it's not really an inextricable cycle if you can swallow the price to satisfy some over inflated schlongs.

About the neutrals or casuals, I don't really know a solution to reliably separate the slinking combatants hiding in the population from the non-combatants except for a fundamental shift of the MUD from pure full loot PvP. If there is no alternative, (haven't really heard any practical alternatives) the situation isn't really going to go away. Yesterday it was someone else, today SoB, tomorrow someone else. The clan strategies are driven by both game mechanics and the social and player responses to them, so if some rule or function changes, i.e. the bounty board or opt anon the pbase is only going to respond by finding a workaround strategy. The typical response to being picked on in Arctic has been the advice to gang up and stand up to the tyrant and beat them and take their shinies, but history shows us that just results in a new tyrant to replace the old.

It could also just be the intrinsic dynamic of any closed social system which places a premium on scarce resources and then encourages competition for those resources. Our pbase has just lost its earlier tenacity and zeal to endlessly endure in this vicious cycle for various reasons. A cycle which has been the fundamental backbone character of our beloved ArcticMUD for the last few decades.

@btown

Stay quitted while you are ahead, if you do level you know you are only going to quit again because of the boredom of chasing shitty decays and ranks....life is good, enjoy it!
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Nostramazos on June 25, 2013, 06:15:54 PM
@Aemon, Basher, Kragg, Lipman, Ravan and everyone!

 I will insist in reminding you that concurrently with what happens at the high end game is what happens down below with smaller clans. These two must co-exist.

 Basher offered some arctic traditions that have always been the case. In the aftermath of the terribly planned botched suicide SOB attack against Dele both Myth and Maza got involved BY their own mistake. Ideally, it shouldn't be like this, but it is. Following that mistake the two Maza involved left their peaceroom and fully eq went and sat down Solace [] asking SOB to come murder them to correct the mistake.

 And then my dear Basher comes...the dickish attitude of the warring clan who refuse to be reasonable even demand from Maza to hand 15-damage eq to make amends (Maza has never had 15damage eq in all the wipes together). If not we would be hunted forever.

 Forever is a big word but not for people who somehow can play 24/7. PKilling is good. Relentless PKilling is bad. Aemon says most SOB do not go around pkilling but I will reply that the few that do are SOB tagged and never sleep and keep harassing Maza tagged targets all times of day.

 And I ask all of you. Notwithstanding the arctic traditions which are what they are, can this player base suffer the the power tripping of some people? From down below I can tell you no. You have not met the newbies that quit because of SOB tagged players. We have. You don't necessarily care. We do. The waaah waaah is not for ourselves per se; Maza has ruined our enemies clothing by bleeding on them (blood won't come out with wine, it's a lie, you actually need to let it stay in a bucket full of bleach for 24 hours and then rub rub rub), we have died countless times against Shriners, BSP, Moloke, Soth, Dts and we gave them bread in return. So in terms of whining,
please...big clan tears will drown us every time they lose a ring.

@btwon and Hoss. So, hmm, I like the xp table and erm...btown is wrong and hmm...I hope that is enough to keep this thread going and hmm if I see btwon anywhere I will die on him cause he doesn't agree.

 oeoe to all of you

 Nostramazos thinks the world would be a better place if everyone had a red button up their butts.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 25, 2013, 06:26:26 PM
actually i find the smaller clan members tend to cry a lot more

generally about "being drawn into conflict", "why is this happening to little old us", "the sky is falling on us", "unfair", "evil", "no life", "ruining the game" etc

edit: vote yes on proposition fix xp tables
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 25, 2013, 06:29:55 PM
you suck man you suck..

2 types of players

pk roll: you pick pk char now you can get all the eq you want kill who you want gain ranks and legend wear all eq you want but you are playing pk mud

non pk roll: you pick non pk char now you don't get shit you don't get ranks your max level is 25 max skills are very good you don't get good eq but you also wont get pkd

can these be 2 options next wipe please
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 25, 2013, 06:30:31 PM
you suck was @ nostro
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: gulca on June 25, 2013, 07:24:08 PM
Big Boys 1 (BB1) bullies Big Boys 2 (BB2) at the playground.

BB1 leaves the playground for lunch.

BB2 needs to vent their anger and looks around the playground for easy targets to bully.

BB2 punch and kick and take toys away from smaller kids. Rah rah rah.

BB2 thinks "It is actually fun to pick on someone smaller".

Smaller kids runs home crying to their parents and complained about all the BBs.

Parents say find another playground.

BB1 comes back from lunch scratching their head. Why is the playground empty???
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 25, 2013, 09:42:21 PM
Well this thread has ran its course can we pls lock it.. lol

btw I donated to arctic today.. it wasn't a lot but it was all I had.  thanks for the work you do even tho you screwed up the xp system. 

Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Rezin on June 25, 2013, 11:16:03 PM
What do you care if the small clans cry and whine?  It should be just the sustenance your ego needs to continue, so feed on your tears and then peace the smaller clans and leave them alone until they make the mistake again, then you guys can kill em again and the cycle continues...apart from the smaller clans joining up against the bigger clans and coming to try and take there elite gear and kill them, I really don't see what the desire is to continue to hunt any enemy who will only cry and whine until you peace them and leave them alone...maybe instead of changes in the game itself, it needs to be changes in the players.  We aren't saying let your enemies level up a ambush squad to kill you, but as the wipe moves forward you see the same neutral names all wipe, give them an actual route to get peace from your clan, they do not have a problem placing there pride on the altar for your team to sacrifice, they just want to run around and explore toede till they can beat it without deaths.  And the way xp tables are, you should be glad because your enemies will be to bored to level up some ambush squad to come after you...what is wrong with only playing 1 or 2 characters you actually invest time into for months, no one should be able to level to 1x in 20 hours, its silly.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Rhys on June 26, 2013, 01:03:26 AM
Idea:

Have a max amount of pkills per character (maybe can get more as you age etc) .

Outcomes: Stops trash. Makes people more selective in their killing.

Discuss.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Bryton on June 26, 2013, 09:16:05 AM
Stop whining and just play. if you suck so bad that you can't get to level 30 or defend yourself in pk after playing for 10 years, then maybe it's time for you to move on to another game.. 
I'm sure there's games out there where you can dominate with little or no effort and games that you can spam the same thing over and over again with no one to bug you.

ps
 did you expect SOB clan to be a bunch of zoners? Ha pk>pk>zone

Thanks
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Willoe on June 26, 2013, 05:11:06 PM
@Bryton - This is exactly the type of attitude that is driving players away from this mud. Slow down and see the bigger picture...it's not a pissing match. If this game wants to survive and you want people to play with rather than yourself, then we need to keep/grow our playerbase and not continue to chase players from the game.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: corey on June 27, 2013, 03:03:48 AM
@Bryton - This is exactly the type of attitude that is driving players away from this mud. Slow down and see the bigger picture...it's not a pissing match. If this game wants to survive and you want people to play with rather than yourself, then we need to keep/grow our playerbase and not continue to chase players from the game.

That's not true at all.

Every game has these people and usually at a higher percentage than what Arctic faces.

There's no market for this game anymore - that's the driving issue.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Willoe on June 27, 2013, 03:39:26 AM
Ok let me rephrase, that is ONE of the reasons.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Oligo on June 27, 2013, 05:30:28 AM
There's no market for this game anymore - that's the driving issue.

There's a market, we just don't capture any of it.

I've never played Aardwolf but I logged on just now to see what their playerbase is:

Players found: [260], Max this reboot: [392], Connections this reboot: [3541]
Players invis: [44], Max on ever: [853]

Even in its heyday in the late 90's, Arctic never had 260 online on a weekday evening.


Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Auzandy on June 27, 2013, 08:15:57 AM
The main thing that sucks in the game is the 'PK into oblivion' mentality.

On one hand, you want clan pks, you want big fights, you glorify PvP, you want action and excitement.

On the other hand you stamp out anything that moves, anything suspicious is eliminated, kill first ask later, keep the enemy from zoning - 'YES, WE SHOWED THEM!! We stopped them playing!! WE ARE THE BEST!!'

So your enemy stops playing.

'Hah we showed them!' ..then soon after...'mud sucks, noone zones anymore, noone wants to fight, xp tables suck, bash needs nerfing *whine, whine, whine*

If you want this game to be fun, get rid of 'war to oblivion'. Sure, feel free to jump some clan, set a war for a few weeks, but agree on a deadline, after which theres a 2-3 week timeframe where the two clans agree to zone freely and reequip, spell up new chars etc, then set another date where peace is over, and the clans can go back to not necessarily war, but a not-truce position.    Then whichever clan gets bored first, can start the cycle again...

The problem is, it would depend on trust from both sides - but if you had it, the game would be so much more fun for so much longer.

tldr: Let clans regroup and regain strength  to make long term game more fun
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jorquin on June 27, 2013, 11:28:18 AM
i've never understood "war to oblivion" barring conflicts that become personal... but thats not really clan stuff

i think the fundamental problem is that you've got an aging population of players who are more and more time poor, yet for some reason the emphasis is being put on taking up more of peoples time. even the people who have at some point been "hardcore" either have kids, serious jobs, or whatever it is that prevents them from putting in that amount of time.

i'm pro playing 2 characters, anti xp table buffs, pro pk - but not pk them till they quit.


i think some of you are stuck in the dark ages.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: RaVaN on June 27, 2013, 02:14:44 PM
@daniel_1

  That fundamental problem will be solved in about 10 years though once people start retiring and have plenty of free time to play.  Just need to keep em hooked til then.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Slunt on June 27, 2013, 02:32:18 PM
Daniel Speaks truth.

If i even had 2-10 hours a week to spend on this game i wouldn't. You can't do anything in that time period especially if its segmented into hour or half hour sessions.

2 Characters is a change i support!
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 27, 2013, 02:44:43 PM
If you guys want change donate!  I bet if these immortals got a little cash in the account they might put a few extra  hours in :/)..  every week when I get paid I get motivated..  muahaha
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: btown on June 27, 2013, 02:46:07 PM
Lets make a beer fund for Hoss and a baby formula fund for Aristox

EDIT: if anybody has good porn hoss will accept that also
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Ericj on June 28, 2013, 12:18:48 AM
I agree with Daniel and Slunt.  I have put a lot of time into this game but it is harder to sit down for more than 2 hours at a time to really get anything accomplished.   We all know the experience tables are do-able if you have the ambition to do it, but for folks who don't want to sink so much time into that grind it just does not make sense. 

My opinion on the "war to oblivion" is right on par with Auz Andy.  Personally the clan I've been with for last 8 years or so has been in many wars (BSP, Wilds, SOB, whoever SOB was last wipe, CORE and more*.  We try not to take it personal and have fun.  Our war with Core was extremely fun because we would call cease fires for a few days or a week or what not to let folks regear and the peace agreements were not severe.  I spent most my mud career fighting against Bob and Corey and this wipe clanned with them.  I think folks need to not let things get personal, but that is tough with some of the players who play because the way they act.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: kilians on June 28, 2013, 01:32:10 AM
i agree with the time sink of  exping a new character i have 2 kids and a full time job so its v.hard for me to find time for an alt and iv been on 3 month break and now im back so if anyone needs help let me know exspecially you eric if it werent for u i wouldnt have learned the little i have since u older guys in school showed us arctic.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: snax on June 28, 2013, 01:38:30 AM
i hate the tedium of grinding that occurs with every single alt every single wipe.  be it coins skills spells or for groups....even shouting "looking for group" for 8 hours i think counts as grinding.

more unique content is always a plus but i can see why there's some serious roadblocks to that....even sucky zones on this game are better than a lot of areas on a lot of muds.

Could we try opening up a crowdsourced zone?  here's the gist of hte idea:

open a forum topic or header for crowd sourcing zones.  An imm starts by posting a map and a theme.
Players contribute 50-200 rdescs (anyone can contribute)
Players that contribute more than 5 rdescs can design a mob.

Imm popuplates the map with the rdescs and mobs.

The 2-3 most active contributers get to work with an imm on item creation.

Then someone gets stuck with the specs and making it not suck.

Surely the community can come up with something better than blighted farm.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Super Tacoman on June 28, 2013, 06:18:09 PM
1. lower the xp tables.  i get tired of playing just one character but i dont want to take another month and level up an alt. 

2. allow 1 multi per person.  why not?

3. pvp optional wont work.  no one has ever played a pve game for hundreds of hours a year every year.  it gets way too boring and predictable.

4. crowdsourced zone?  maybe but good luck getting anyone to sift through room descriptions from every retard with 50 terrible ideas for a room description.

5. make fridays no pkill day.  yes i know pvp optional wont work but these assholes are not going to police themselves so give us one day to zone safely.  do you think they are sad when someone quits after they pkill him?  no.  they have big grins and tiny little chubbies growing in their shorts.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Gnua on June 28, 2013, 07:05:57 PM
pk roll: you pick pk char now you can get all the eq you want kill who you want gain ranks and legend wear all eq you want but you are playing pk mud

non pk roll: you pick non pk char now you don't get shit you don't get ranks your max level is 25 max skills are very good you don't get good eq but you also wont get pkd

can these be 2 options next wipe please

I think I like this idea, though maybe the specifics of the "casual option" could be tweaked. Reduced XP requirements to get to 25. Maybe allow them to get to 28 but it takes a very long time. Small XP / eq loss to pk death. No possibility of Legend. Cannot do aggressive actions to an ungrouped/unclanned player. Cannot wield/wear/use elite eq (I think reed had a good definition of elite). Maybe restrict guild to prevent mage and shaman. Stats are always 1 or 2 points below max. Maybe allow a similar bot.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Attai on June 28, 2013, 07:34:19 PM
1) XP tables
I don't think most people play this game to do mid level zones,
I'm married with 1 kid and another on the way, I work full time and ive got a shitty commute
I don't have the time to play that I used to, If I came back I would play maybe 2-10 hrs a WEEK
So if I'm going to spend my time playing this game I dont want to have to spend a month of my limited playtime just to do Storm's Keep
If you want to make stupid XP tables then backload them to be lvl 28+
Make it easier to get to lvl 28 which is by most people an acceptable level to do high level zones and harder to get to lvl 30

2) Unlimited very high % load decent equipment that is no rent decay but with very low in game timer
This kind of easy to load equipment would allow myself and other playtime challenged people to have fun
For warriors maybe make some hand/body/wrist dams and some 3d6 enchantable primes
I don't usually play other classes so I'm using warrior as an example
Especially with limited playerbase is it really overpowered to be able to get 4dam and a 3d6++ prime?

3) If you're worried about buying ranks making players overpowered with unlim eq
Make utility ranks buyable at any level (fly/stats)
Make rest of ranks (+dam) only purchaseable once you are lvl 30

4) For God sakes people bapting group with each other or let others in your group
Opt LFG is a cool addition but its only useful if people actually use it
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: reed23 on June 29, 2013, 06:20:58 AM
The rent decay system needs to change.  Deeprenting EQ has to stop.  I stopped playing pinster and the mithas belt/10 +heals were sitting on my char for over a month of not playing until I gave them to a maza.

The no-pk 1 day a week thought was very interesting, but may have abuse issues.  I kind of like the idea though.

Exp tables - 1-25 revert to old tables, 26-28 30% increase from old tables, 29-30 50% increase from old tables.  This allows people to lvl up to grouping lvls quickly but prevents trash from lvl 30 too quickly.

Allow 1 alt from same IP.  I don't get why imms won't just give this a try late in a wipe to see how it goes.

Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Attai on June 29, 2013, 06:09:49 PM
The rent decay system needs to change.  Deeprenting EQ has to stop.  I stopped playing pinster and the mithas belt/10 +heals were sitting on my char for over a month of not playing until I gave them to a maza.

I disagree, I think people should be able to deeprent so they can take a mental break and come back and not have to start over with no eq.  If they aren't going to make more and easier to get unlim eq then they should raise the limit on some of the items in the game

Seriously what fun is it to have to constantly spam a zone to get your decay back.  The mentality of people is I had something, I decayed it, I want it back and they'll spam a zone 15x to get it back and alot of the times nothing decent loads during those 15 runs.   You can't possibly say you enjoy doing that.

I don't want to just see higher load rates I want to see higher limit
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: reed23 on June 29, 2013, 06:28:56 PM
The attraction of arctic to many top tier players is to acquire the limited eq in the game.  If the limit 1 items changed to a ridiculously low load rate, that would turn off many leaders in the game.  Not to mention when people see wilds running around with 2 shields of huma, everyone will automatically start saying cheaters, cheaters.  When the limited eq is popped and deeprented, then the game is stupid.  The game continues to have new zones and unbelievable equipment, yet the player count goes down.  There shouldn't be any problem loading decent eq if you just go look around.  And it is unfair to the people who play more frequently when someone who logs 1nce a month pops a pretty decent item, then rents it for the rest of the wipe.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Attai on June 30, 2013, 12:54:59 AM
The attraction of arctic to many top tier players is to acquire the limited eq in the game.  If the limit 1 items changed to a ridiculously low load rate, that would turn off many leaders in the game.  Not to mention when people see wilds running around with 2 shields of huma...

I think the attraction of many top tier players is PK first and best gear in the game second.  But would it be a turn off to people to make it easier to get nice gear? I dont think so.

Also my opinion is nobashes and humas and such should be lim 1, any item that starts with THE should be pretty awesome and be the only one in the game, THE to me implies THE ONLY one like THE shield of Huma.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: xellos on July 01, 2013, 08:52:50 PM
i like the idea that if a limit 1 item decays, it should be mass broadcasted to the mudd.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Dyl on July 01, 2013, 10:05:18 PM
I've been playing another mud right now and they use a visible timer system on the item that shows when you look at someone... for instance:
the shield of huma [7d14h23m]

On that mud, the timers are usually pretty short... like a week maximum.  You can 'feed' your uniques/artifacts by playing, specifically by killing other players or by completing zones.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: snax on July 02, 2013, 01:28:12 AM
i like the idea that if a limit 1 item decays, it should be mass broadcasted to the mudd.

here here! i second that idea.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Brafu on July 07, 2013, 09:53:14 AM
I have played Arctic pretty solid since 2001 with only fairly short breaks now and then (maybe 3-6 months, depending on what was going on in my life), and I'm not sure if I'll ever come back. I started playing this wipe just like I did all the past ones, but after a couple weeks I had to take a break because I drove across the country from Washington to New York state to help some friends move... and I just never even thought about coming back.

Part of me still loves Arctic and still wants to play, but whenever I consider it all I can think about are all the negatives.

The biggest reason for me not wanting to touch Arctic again is because of how toxic some players can become and how driven they are at trying to ruin another person's ability to simply play the game, let alone actually have fun while doing it. In my opinion that toxic attitude is the main reason this game struggles to hold onto it's players, nevermind attracting new ones. What is the point in even trying to play Arctic when there is a pretty good chance that someone will decide they don't want you to be able to play anymore, and an even better chance that they can accomplish it?

I can hear all of the excuses already about how it can be avoided or how it's part of the game, and you know what? It doesn't matter. The point of a game is for people to be able to play it, to have fun, to even be challenged. When someone doesn't want to play because another player (or group of players) can remove all elements of fun and entertainment.... then what's the point?

There's no way to change a persons attitude or the mentality they play with, but the game itself can be altered to make it harder for them to play in a way that is anti-social (and forcing others out of your sandbox is anti-social). What are those chances? I really cant say because it's not an easy problem to solve. But something needs to be done, and it needs to be pretty major.

Now, in as far as the game itself...

I still love the game, but it's too much work for what should be fun. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm not one to shy away from grinding or putting in the effort to get what I want, or to help my friends get what they want, but as I moved into the "casual" side of mudding I found that it's not appealing anymore (I wonder if it ever was in the first place lol). I don't have the time, or desire, to mindlessly grind away on the mud when I could just as easily be playing Black Ops 2 online, or StarCraft 2, and actually having fun 99% of the time... instead of maybe 40% on the mud, if I'm lucky.

No, I don't want things to be easy, but there are ways to make a game challenging without creating a grind game.

I'm not asking for anything here, I'm simply stating why I personally am not mudding and why I probably won't be anytime soon. It's just the honest truth about why someone who's played this game for over a decade decided not to come back and is instead choosing to allocate that time elsewhere.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: corey on July 08, 2013, 10:46:34 PM
I have played Arctic pretty solid since 2001 with only fairly short breaks now and then (maybe 3-6 months, depending on what was going on in my life), and I'm not sure if I'll ever come back. I started playing this wipe just like I did all the past ones, but after a couple weeks I had to take a break because I drove across the country from Washington to New York state to help some friends move... and I just never even thought about coming back.

Part of me still loves Arctic and still wants to play, but whenever I consider it all I can think about are all the negatives.

The biggest reason for me not wanting to touch Arctic again is because of how toxic some players can become and how driven they are at trying to ruin another person's ability to simply play the game, let alone actually have fun while doing it. In my opinion that toxic attitude is the main reason this game struggles to hold onto it's players, nevermind attracting new ones. What is the point in even trying to play Arctic when there is a pretty good chance that someone will decide they don't want you to be able to play anymore, and an even better chance that they can accomplish it?

I can hear all of the excuses already about how it can be avoided or how it's part of the game, and you know what? It doesn't matter. The point of a game is for people to be able to play it, to have fun, to even be challenged. When someone doesn't want to play because another player (or group of players) can remove all elements of fun and entertainment.... then what's the point?

There's no way to change a persons attitude or the mentality they play with, but the game itself can be altered to make it harder for them to play in a way that is anti-social (and forcing others out of your sandbox is anti-social). What are those chances? I really cant say because it's not an easy problem to solve. But something needs to be done, and it needs to be pretty major.

Now, in as far as the game itself...

I still love the game, but it's too much work for what should be fun. Anyone who knows me knows that I'm not one to shy away from grinding or putting in the effort to get what I want, or to help my friends get what they want, but as I moved into the "casual" side of mudding I found that it's not appealing anymore (I wonder if it ever was in the first place lol). I don't have the time, or desire, to mindlessly grind away on the mud when I could just as easily be playing Black Ops 2 online, or StarCraft 2, and actually having fun 99% of the time... instead of maybe 40% on the mud, if I'm lucky.

No, I don't want things to be easy, but there are ways to make a game challenging without creating a grind game.

I'm not asking for anything here, I'm simply stating why I personally am not mudding and why I probably won't be anytime soon. It's just the honest truth about why someone who's played this game for over a decade decided not to come back and is instead choosing to allocate that time elsewhere.

Teach me to have fun on SC2.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Brafu on July 10, 2013, 05:29:08 AM
@Corey

NO! That is a secret I shall take to my virtual grave.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Myte on July 22, 2014, 10:20:21 AM
Uhhhm, I just leveled a DK with almost zero prior DK experience from zero to 1x and rank 20 in 3 days flat playtime... A full day of this has probably just been skilling to prepare for legendary. The XP tables look daunting, but you can really totally disregard the level 30 to 1x because it means nothing now, it's just a buffer for dying. I work full time in the military approximately 55-60 hours a week right now (shore duty, not deployed) and my char took 7 days to put that 3 days of playtime in and get to where I am. I think you're just xping wrong (I had no quest xp and no big dragon xp, I solo'd to 30). You gain ranks while you are xping. The only alternate would be to go to the old system of waiting until 1x to gain ranks, yet lower the xp tables. You seem to not be factoring that in. Wouldn't that actually take longer or approximately the same amount of time if you lowered the xp tables but required 1x to rank? It's the same amount of time dude, it's just done differently and allows people to get ranks without being 1x. It's really actually the same amount of time, just think about it.

Legendary is the new level 30.

Edit: I guess I could mention my IRL friend who just started playing, is basically BRAND NEW to Arctic. Her first char was a cleric, played for a day and hated it. Rolled a magic user. Made it through the tower quest on her own. Went BLM. Is now level 30, rank 20, and working on getting legendary spells and has 95% of all her skills at superb. She's rolled this char LESS THAN 2 WEEKS AGO. She's bapting brand new, running around with Myth... So what's the problem again?
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Thymorical on August 01, 2014, 02:06:23 AM
More quiting is always fun. I know what it would take to make me play again. but Ill never get an apology and restoration of my characters. I should make an arctics anonymous..
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Bunsen on August 01, 2014, 08:49:50 AM
More quiting is always fun. I know what it would take to make me play again. but Ill never get an apology and restoration of my characters. I should make an arctics anonymous..

Why are you still here?
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Jones on August 01, 2014, 10:50:37 AM
More quiting is always fun. I know what it would take to make me play again. but Ill never get an apology and restoration of my characters. I should make an arctics anonymous..

Why are you still here?

when you quit arctic its like breaking up with a girl.  it is hard to do but sometimes you feel relieved when its over.  afterwards it feels good to check in on her now and then and see that she is suffering without you. 

that's why many of us players who are no longer playing still check the forums.  we enjoy the suffering.  and maybe just maybe if she is lucky we will take her back one day.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: SArT on August 01, 2014, 05:34:01 PM
More quiting is always fun. I know what it would take to make me play again. but Ill never get an apology and restoration of my characters. I should make an arctics anonymous..

Why are you still here?

when you quit arctic its like breaking up with a girl.  it is hard to do but sometimes you feel relieved when its over.  afterwards it feels good to check in on her now and then and see that she is suffering without you. 

that's why many of us players who are no longer playing still check the forums.  we enjoy the suffering.  and maybe just maybe if she is lucky we will take her back one day.

Jones wins.
Title: Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
Post by: Alecto on August 03, 2014, 02:24:58 AM
Arctic is our mutual bad romance...