Arctic Mud

ArcticMUD => General Discussion => Topic started by: Super Tacoman on November 24, 2015, 06:03:40 PM

Title: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on November 24, 2015, 06:03:40 PM
with the max group size lowering, shouldnt individual characters be made a bit stronger to compensate?
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Hoodoo on November 24, 2015, 06:19:01 PM
Nope.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Chisul on November 24, 2015, 11:49:10 PM
A bit stronger than a paladin and shaman basically two manning everything in the game??? Uhhh, nope.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Sanjuro on November 25, 2015, 12:43:19 AM
i'm happy to make some mobs a bit harder if you're concerned. or, better yet, add unlimited spawning undeads to every zone. yes, i like that idea ...
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on November 25, 2015, 03:54:20 AM
i'm happy to make some mobs a bit harder if you're concerned. or, better yet, add unlimited spawning undeads to every zone. yes, i like that idea ...

i guess it sounds like everyone thinks the game is much too easy!  better go for it.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: relethane on November 25, 2015, 04:08:04 AM
Quote
i guess it sounds like everyone thinks the game is much too easy!  better go for it.

Yep, all the people who thought the game was too hard quit long ago.  The 4 people who are left want it to be harder.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on November 29, 2015, 04:22:57 PM

Yep, all the people who thought the game was too hard quit long ago.  The 4 people who are left want it to be harder.

nearly all of the changes in this game have always been for the elite players.  the normal players and the noobs are ignored. 

but i suppose it is too late to worry about that now.  as you said there aren't too many casual players left.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: relethane on November 30, 2015, 12:32:58 AM
Quote
nearly all of the changes in this game have always been for the elite players.  the normal players and the noobs are ignored. 

but i suppose it is too late to worry about that now.  as you said there aren't too many casual players left.

It's a really interesting paradox that in one sense in order to evolve your game into a great one you should keep adhering to the requests of your most dedicated player base ( 'cause they know the game the best) but in doing so you're actually screwing your game up for the masses ( 'cause your dedicated players only want changes that preserve their top tier status - like making +stat loads more important).  Takes a very firm hand at the top level, and while I'm sure most would agree that Arctic's leadership is at it's most fair yet, we're still seeing - dare I say it - republican trickle down economics - being applied even now.  Onward! Let the power belong to those who already know how to pop it!
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: eddiex on November 30, 2015, 02:27:46 AM
Quote
nearly all of the changes in this game have always been for the elite players.  the normal players and the noobs are ignored. 

but i suppose it is too late to worry about that now.  as you said there aren't too many casual players left.

It's a really interesting paradox that in one sense in order to evolve your game into a great one you should keep adhering to the requests of your most dedicated player base ( 'cause they know the game the best) but in doing so you're actually screwing your game up for the masses ( 'cause your dedicated players only want changes that preserve their top tier status - like making +stat loads more important).  Takes a very firm hand at the top level, and while I'm sure most would agree that Arctic's leadership is at it's most fair yet, we're still seeing - dare I say it - republican trickle down economics - being applied even now.  Onward! Let the power belong to those who already know how to pop it!

I think this idea is completely off-base and out of touch with the current situation in the game.  Dedicated players only want changes that preserve their top tier status...  I find it hard to believe that lower base character stats is what is keeping you away from bridging the gap into becoming a better player.  Do you realize most of the top tier players in this game don't even roll for stats in the beginning of a wipe?  The immortals doing development stated that it gives the creators more flexibility when creating gear and makes +stat gear more important.  I doubt there was any elite players pounding the table for lowering overall stats.

Do you realize that the game has become significantly easier over the course of the last ten years with the implementation and evolution of Legendary characters? The direction of this game has increasingly closed the gap between needing elite equip to complete the vast majority of this game and needing just enough legendary characters. 

Reducing the group size by 2 is the first step the staff has made toward making the game slightly more difficult in some time.  The fact is, this game is not and has not been growing for years.  Making the game more challenging and thus more entertaining for those who remain is the most sensible thing to do.  I guarantee very few at the top tier of this player base could give a rats testicle about 'preserving their edge'.  They definitely are not lobbying the immortals to make changes to keep the underlings down.

Step your game up bro. If you're garbage at this game, you probably have not put in enough time or do not understand the fundamentals in order to develop as a player.  Find a mentor.

Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Hoodoo on November 30, 2015, 02:33:01 AM
Haven't said this in a while... but I agree completely with Eddie. Well said. 
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on November 30, 2015, 03:09:28 AM

I think this idea is completely off-base and out of touch with the current situation in the game.  Dedicated players only want changes that preserve their top tier status...  I find it hard to believe that lower base character stats is what is keeping you away from bridging the gap into becoming a better player.  Do you realize most of the top tier players in this game don't even roll for stats in the beginning of a wipe?  The immortals doing development stated that it gives the creators more flexibility when creating gear and makes +stat gear more important.  I doubt there was any elite players pounding the table for lowering overall stats.

Do you realize that the game has become significantly easier over the course of the last ten years with the implementation and evolution of Legendary characters? The direction of this game has increasingly closed the gap between needing elite equip to complete the vast majority of this game and needing just enough legendary characters. 

Reducing the group size by 2 is the first step the staff has made toward making the game slightly more difficult in some time.  The fact is, this game is not and has not been growing for years.  Making the game more challenging and thus more entertaining for those who remain is the most sensible thing to do.  I guarantee very few at the top tier of this player base could give a rats testicle about 'preserving their edge'.  They definitely are not lobbying the immortals to make changes to keep the underlings down.

Step your game up bro. If you're garbage at this game, you probably have not put in enough time or do not understand the fundamentals in order to develop as a player.  Find a mentor.

i hear you eddiex, but you might be a bit out of touch with how far the elite have left casual players behind in this game. 

i have made it to legendary once.  some of my friends have never had a legendary character.  i suppose this makes me garbage at the game... but i dont care.  i still love this game and can have great fun at it.  obviously there are other players like me.  there used to be a lot more.  and every change in the game seems to make it harder for us to play.

i could 'step up my game' and join a clan and type assist until i am strong.  but i like to do things for myself.  joining a clan doesnt interest me at all.

i understand for most of the players that remain, a bigger challenge is welcome.  but you should also understand every such change makes it harder for us garbage players to play the game.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: eddiex on November 30, 2015, 03:43:06 AM
The fact that you believe it is necessary to join a clan to obtain legendary or step your game up is exactly the problem.  I know there are players that exist that have trouble legending characters.  And I am completely out of touch with that, because I can legend one in a week.  I know what it takes.  It's no magic trick.  It's called time and dedication.  If you understand the fundamental mechanics of the game (or spend your limited time learning how they work), you too could have a legendary character every wipe.  There is a ton of content available for casual players.  Most areas in this game were designed for non-legendary characters.

I have no way of understanding how a casual player has any expectation of succeeding in Arctic without investing time.  This is a game that takes time. Thousands of hours to master.  I don't really have an answer for someone who refuses to seek help (in the form of mentoring, clans, or camaraderie).  Most, if not all of the players who play at a high level have had help.

What do you suggest the immortals do to address your issue?  What exactly is your issue with how the game is being run?  It sounds like a personal problem with not investing time into something you want to succeed and thrive at.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on November 30, 2015, 04:06:00 AM
The fact that you believe it is necessary to join a clan to obtain legendary or step your game up is exactly the problem.  I know there are players that exist that have trouble legending characters.  And I am completely out of touch with that, because I can legend one in a week.  I know what it takes.  It's no magic trick.  It's called time and dedication.  If you understand the fundamental mechanics of the game (or spend your limited time learning how they work), you too could have a legendary character every wipe.  There is a ton of content available for casual players.  Most areas in this game were designed for non-legendary characters.

I have no way of understanding how a casual player has any expectation of succeeding in Arctic without investing time.  This is a game that takes time. Thousands of hours to master.  I don't really have an answer for someone who refuses to seek help (in the form of mentoring, clans, or camaraderie).  Most, if not all of the players who play at a high level have had help.

What do you suggest the immortals do to address your issue?  I don't really see it as a mudwide problem.  It sounds like a personal problem with not investing time into something you want to succeed and thrive at.


i am not suggesting they do anything.  the game is good.  i got pretty far last wipe almost legendary.  i just wish i wasnt going to be weaker next wipe. 

your definition of 'succeeding' on arctic and mine are a lot different i believe.  i am only looking for fun.

its just a personal problem.  :D
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Chisul on November 30, 2015, 04:48:00 AM
Having a mentor serves to speed up the learning process. As does joining a clan.

There have been plenty of times over the years when I just typed assist for quick ranks, coins, and exp. But that never helped me become  a better player. You get what you put into a clan or a mentor relationship. What helped me become a better player was setting small goals for my knowledge, then leveraging the clan and mentors to achieve those goals.

There is no definition for what goals a player can set to improve. But here are a few that helped me.

Find 10 mobs with over 1000 coins earning potential upon death that can be solo killed.
Learn 20 traps to train disable.
Where are all the instinct loads for my flavor of scout?
Find one new +dam load that is soloable each wipe.
Locate and memorize all of the rank mobs in 5 mid-level zones
Complete a new quest for the first time. (I just learned all of an oldie but goodie zone this wipe)
Chronicle 5 new DT.
When a certain  log posting site was still around, I would select 10 or 20 items off the loot list and make it a point to learn at least what zone the item came from. I was surprised quite often with how many items I could find this way.
10 books, 10 tabs, 10 cleric spells, and 5 shaman loads. Memorize them, learn them, lead them.
Play a class I suck at until I can  effectively train most if not all of the skills.
Learn a leveling pattern that takes you across the map...then learn how to perform rank laps around Ansalon. (Credit goes to Fifty on this one, he first taught me how to run rank laps.)
Learn to load one weapon with a spec each wipe. This really made the game fun.
Pk at least once each wipe, and don't sissy out on it. The player you attack ,or fight off, should have an even shot at killing you.

Like I said, the list can go on and on...but I recommend setting some personal goals to your playing. I've been around for almost 20 years and I sure wish I would have done more of these things during my first 10 years! I might not still suck so much!
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Rinad on November 30, 2015, 05:21:00 AM
I have to agree with Jason and Eddie on this one....

What isn't fun?
Why don't you want to join a clan? 

You can do well without joining one, but you will most likely learn a lot more, as most of us like sharing the knowledge and friendships we've gained over the years.     Even if you group with clans as a neutral, your bound to pick a good bit of gear/experience/ranks/game knowledge, as we grow to trust and know you, most clans will hook you up well. That being said, If you don't like groups then the 8 man group is irrelevant.  This is a change that has been a long time coming.

As far as most race stats, currently IMO they are a bit absurd and the fact I can get a warrior with 24 nat dex, says something.   This isn't the first nor will it be the last this gets changed in one or another direction.  My most powerful and a well respected character had13 str 18 int  20 wis 15 dex 16 con 18 cha or something like that and was not rolled, I just took what I got and it was over rank 30 by the end of that wipe. That wipe I was asked by many clans to come zone with them on a daily basis.   Arctic is built around teamwork, it is not meant to be a solo mud persay.  Can you do it? yes, is it as fun? depends on who's view. 

Not all areas are going to be hack n slash, many have many layers of quests, mobs, etc.  I'm sorry there is a reason Sleet/Cyan takes time, planning and a rather large group.   Plus this game has over 10k+ rooms/quests/etc.   Over 20 years I still haven't fully solved everything and I think many other players can say the same,but that is what keeps me coming back.  I love showing Jason or Eddie a new KW or quest answer and vice versa.  As it stands now, it is too easy for me to stack up +stat items or ranks.   If you learn enough about the game you would know you could easily be rank 5 before level 15, where this unlimited gear loads and how to pop it.

Most Legend chars  can be soloed and it is a lot easier to legend now that you can gain ranks as you level.  The exp tables are not as bad as the once were, plus its more in tune with being legend at around level 30, usually about 50% to 1x.   There will be skills that are level capped, no matter how much you train.  Now this is the "tedious" part, skills training, again most can be done solo.   Once you buy rank points and legend stats, you'll see how much more you can do.  My two caveats are skills training and loss of rank/exp on death.  I think spending a week typing in "skill" every 3 mins to level it up needs fixing, it doesn't really add value to the game.  Lore and Mend are two I can think of off of the top of my head.    As far as death goes, well losing 1/3 of 65M exp is a lot, plus the hit of 50% rank loss, that's kinda ugly.   Then if you lose level between 29 and 30 your skills reset and there's a few more hours devoted to skilling them again.   I would like to see this hit be a bit less maybe 10-15% on each?  I'm sure some others agree. 

TL;DR The game isn't going to be much harder with nerfed stats, it will be more balanced and it makes gear a tad more interesting.   Clan's are a part of the game and it's not meant to be solo, but you can do so and still be successful.   Death exp/rank loss and skill training sucks.     
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Zozen on November 30, 2015, 07:21:11 PM
His lack of legending must be with killing the quest mob/spells and not with ranking or skills because both of those can be done solo and easily in mid-high zones with prompt rank on. If you're solo and good align I recommend trying neutral or evil align.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Hoodoo on November 30, 2015, 08:03:55 PM
I have great luck with good align, usually rank 17-18 by 30 and I do 27-28ish solo.  It can be done: it does require learning zones specific to the align, for sure.  I don't see it as more of a challenge than evil, though, and neutral is just... slooooow.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Rinad on November 30, 2015, 10:12:16 PM
Lack of full neutral zones .   Most zones are either all good, evil or a hybrid.   Very few are true neutral.   

Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Jorquin on November 30, 2015, 10:20:21 PM
In regards to earlier posts about "doing it right"...

Arctic is a game. It is designed to be fun and give people enjoyment while playing it.

This might mean being in a powerhouse clan and beating things down with your friends, it might mean exclusively solo play where you enjoy some casual adventuring, or it might mean exploring every corner of the game world.

The bottom line is there is only one "right" way to play Arctic, which is to have fun doing it. If you've got that covered the rest is irrelevant.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: btown on November 30, 2015, 11:22:48 PM
We all know arctic is more like a drug and not a game.   
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Nary on November 30, 2015, 11:52:59 PM
I resisted joining a clan for so long on this game and it was the worst mistake of my life.  I've gotten to know so many good people from all over the world and have had a blast play other games with them etc.  You are missing out on 3/4 of what this game is about, bottom line.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: muddeer on December 01, 2015, 12:07:20 AM
We all know arctic is more like a drug and not a game.
Yes.  And Daniel is our version of Walter White.  Once a good guy, he used to be a regular joe, just another cog in the wheel like the rest of us.  But now, he has joined the dark side, contributing to the addiction that is Arctic with his creations and cursing us with missing classes/homework, lower job performances, destroyed marriages/relationships, and fish gut-white skin complexions.

But it's not too late, Daniel.  It's not.  You can still recover what little humanity you have left and repent!  Come back to us and play.  Let those who have already lost their souls fill out them spreadsheets and craft the 962846th description for a statue.  Or do you really want to end up like...... SANJURO!?
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: eddiex on December 01, 2015, 01:24:01 AM
I understand that there are many different reasons people play Arctic. Super taco is right that there are different ideas of what it means to be successful in this game. I was mostly addressing the point that the changes being made to the game have not been skewed to favor the elite. In my understanding of the game, I also find it difficult to fathom lower base statistics significantly hindering anyone, even the newbest of newbs.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Alecto on December 01, 2015, 01:29:29 AM
but now I can only memorized TWO thornsprays at level 1!  How will I ever get to level 2?!?
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Gnua on December 04, 2015, 01:22:35 AM
but now I can only memorized TWO thornsprays at level 1!  How will I ever get to level 2?!?

I thought you always played paladin.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on December 04, 2015, 01:52:52 AM
I understand that there are many different reasons people play Arctic. Super taco is right that there are different ideas of what it means to be successful in this game. I was mostly addressing the point that the changes being made to the game have not been skewed to favor the elite. In my understanding of the game, I also find it difficult to fathom lower base statistics significantly hindering anyone, even the newbest of newbs.

i dont think any of the changes are intentionally being made to favor the elite.  it is just an unintended side effect. 

and if i have less hps and less dmg than last wipe, it seems to me that i will not be able to do as much in the game.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Jorquin on December 04, 2015, 04:18:03 AM
This is a fairly silly  conversation tbh, Elite level players rarely wear any +attribute gear other than con & str to wield a prime. Increasing the value of +attribute eq by having lower base stats is an inadvertant buff to low / mid tier players if you think about it. Thats my 2 cents anyway
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Brafu on December 04, 2015, 05:06:15 AM
Lowering the stats a bit really doesn't effect the top players (as has been said). Why? Because they are too busy trying to figure out where to wear the eq that is by far more important than the stuff that gives them another 2 or 3 wisdom or charisma.

But what it does do is make useless eq more appealing again for the casual players and those who don't have access to high end gear. +1 stat eq (unless it was, perhaps, int or wis) has usually been viewed by many as totally useless trash once they get to lvl 20+ and are loading better non +stat eq for those slots (such as +hp or +dam). There is so much eq in this game that has been, basically, total trash because of the slow growth in character power that's made them far less important than they once were.

Also, since when do you need to join a clan in order to group with one and make friends in it? They might not give you the best eq loads, but you'll get some stuff along with ranks, XP, and coins. You just need to be a bit more proactive in reaching out to them and letting them know you exist and want to group.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Gnua on December 04, 2015, 04:24:49 PM
This is a fairly silly  conversation tbh, Elite level players rarely wear any +attribute gear other than con & str to wield a prime. Increasing the value of +attribute eq by having lower base stats is an inadvertant buff to low / mid tier players if you think about it. Thats my 2 cents anyway

so now low/mid tier players need to load +stat gear to achieve their previous levels of power? this may be a good idea for the same reason as casting level, but no one would call the casting level system a buff. how is this a buff? is it because +stat gear will be plentiful and low tier (i.e. non-legend unclanned) players will be able to solo +1 stat in every equipment slot but the higher tier players will have trouble doing so because they are wearing +dam, +heal and better stuff which does not give stats?
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Jorquin on December 05, 2015, 04:56:31 AM
yeah pretty much. i doubt this was the rationale behind the change, i was just pointing out that the change actually slightly benefits low / mid players in a round-about way
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Gramm on December 05, 2015, 05:12:36 AM
YOU WILL ALL BE ASSIMILATED. MYTH POWAH!
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Alecto on December 06, 2015, 12:59:30 PM
you said ASS!
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Rinad on December 06, 2015, 11:34:16 PM
Gram, The Mythical Ass! 

Nailed it.

Whee For Ever!
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on December 07, 2015, 07:39:48 PM
and now the healing changes.

so my noob healer will need 2 heals to do the same amount as a geared healer who already had twice as many heals anyway.  and the elite players will have 120 hp cure lights.

...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmErRm-vApI

Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Gnua on December 07, 2015, 07:58:02 PM
and now the healing changes.

so my noob healer will need 2 heals to do the same amount as a geared healer who already had twice as many heals anyway.  and the elite players will have 120 hp cure lights.

...........

or maybe the geared healer will not have enough slots to have ams nobash +hitpoints, +8 heals and healing done items. perhaps the somewhat geared healer will be in some small way superior to the geared healer because the geared healer can no longer have it all
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Brafu on December 07, 2015, 10:22:50 PM
@Super Tacoman

Dude, this game has always rewarded the skills, knowledgeable, and determined. Nothing's changed. No matter what changes are made there will always be a gap between the average player (or below average) and those some would consider "elite". It doesn't matter what changes they make to the eq, it doesn't matter what they change with characters, stats, races, or classes, it'll always be like this.

I'm by no means an elite player, nor am I very knowledgeable in terms of leading zones and such, but I could solo myself damn close to legendary (and get some respectable eq) if I needed to, and you can bet I would seek out the help of a friendly clan (whom I would have grouped with now and then) in order to get the last bit I needed for legendary.

So, to be perfectly blunt, why should the bar be lowered for you? You either learn and make some friends or you keep spinning your wheels in the mud.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Chisul on December 08, 2015, 03:10:24 PM
In the Arctic mud...
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: SArT on December 08, 2015, 07:10:19 PM
Two things:

1. Why can Eddie not post without having to edit it?

2. This thread is stupid.  Taco, you say you don't care about being elite.. but isn't that what all your arguments are really about?  If you play for fun.. you wouldn't care.

We are all just dust in the wind.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: eddiex on December 08, 2015, 07:48:11 PM
Dear Sart,

I sometimes post from my phone mistyping or making grammatical errors (that i have noticed after posting) which I compulsively obsess over.  Why does it bother you so much?

P.s. I'm editing this one just for you <-- *Wink*Wink*

XoXo,

Eddie
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on December 08, 2015, 07:58:14 PM
Two things:

1. Why can Eddie not post without having to edit it?

2. This thread is stupid.  Taco, you say you don't care about being elite.. but isn't that what all your arguments are really about?  If you play for fun.. you wouldn't care.

We are all just dust in the wind.

just because i play for fun doesnt mean i dont care about how much i can do in the game.  it sounds like me and my friends we will be weaker with heals that do half hps.  many of the zones we could beat last wipe will be too hard for us now.  that is not fun.

think about who these heal changes effect.  do you think the geared clerics are not going to be running around with +200% healing while noobs like me struggle to find any?  what is the point of such a change?  buff the strong and nerf the weak?

maybe gnua is right and furry cloaks will have +20% healing on them while all the high end equipment will have none, so that the strongest healers will have to give up some of their +heals.  but i doubt it. 



 
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Chisul on December 08, 2015, 10:52:44 PM
Super Taco,

Good grief man! You have not even tried the new system and you are convinced this is some conspiracy to keep you and the other newer or more casual players down. I think you might be suffering from the same image misconception that 13 year old girls battle when they see over sexualized images of women everywhere.

You know that's not real, I know that's not real, but somehow those images impact how a young girl sees herself and she begins to define success by her shade of lipstick or cup size.

After watching some of the insane accomplishments a handful of super players do (then post), I suspect you are defining success as your ability to replicate the things you see or hear about. Just like the little girls mentioned above.

Please understand that those super players are very rare, very few, and they paid the price of years and years of playing to have brief moments of overwhelming success at this game. Another players ability to two man a zone that takes me and my friends 5 guys to do, in no way diminishes my enjoyment of the game.

Adjusting the heal rate and effectiveness might...just might, be one cog in a bigger effort to improve the game. I invite you to reconsider the "if elite players win, new players lose." Message I see you posting so frequently. Your ability to enjoy the game and define success is wholly independent of the gaming experience I choose to have. Will healing be different? Yes. Could some zones be harder now? Probably. Does that mean you can't have fun? It's up to you.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Hoss on December 08, 2015, 11:24:22 PM
So you have a thing for 13 year old girls? bapting sicko!
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Chisul on December 09, 2015, 12:09:44 AM
I just got Hoss'd.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on December 09, 2015, 01:09:21 AM
Super Taco,

Good grief man! You have not even tried the new system and you are convinced this is some conspiracy to keep you and the other newer or more casual players down. I think you might be suffering from the same image misconception that 13 year old girls battle when they see over sexualized images of women everywhere.

You know that's not real, I know that's not real, but somehow those images impact how a young girl sees herself and she begins to define success by her shade of lipstick or cup size.

After watching some of the insane accomplishments a handful of super players do (then post), I suspect you are defining success as your ability to replicate the things you see or hear about. Just like the little girls mentioned above.

Please understand that those super players are very rare, very few, and they paid the price of years and years of playing to have brief moments of overwhelming success at this game. Another players ability to two man a zone that takes me and my friends 5 guys to do, in no way diminishes my enjoyment of the game.

Adjusting the heal rate and effectiveness might...just might, be one cog in a bigger effort to improve the game. I invite you to reconsider the "if elite players win, new players lose." Message I see you posting so frequently. Your ability to enjoy the game and define success is wholly independent of the gaming experience I choose to have. Will healing be different? Yes. Could some zones be harder now? Probably. Does that mean you can't have fun? It's up to you.

i just worry that they forget about the bad players with these changes.  i dont care what the best players can do but i do hope i can still do the same kind of things i did last wipe. 

we were close to killing bmobs last wipe.  i would really like another chance to do it this time.  the attribute reduction makes that harder, the heal changes will potentially make it impossible.  it seems like there should be ways to make the game more challenging for the good players without making it unplayable for the bad.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Rinad on December 09, 2015, 01:14:57 AM
I've seen this game change so many ways over the last 20-25 years.   I kinda like and welcome change.   Let Hoss have fun with his nerf bat.   Start learning more about how to two man stuff, meet and greet with other players as some of are actually tolerable and may show you a secret or two.  I'm still learning stuff and am no where near done.  On that note, I'll be more than willing to two man a zone, where I have a chance of losing my gear...no way to CR it and not worry.   Legends are buff, Legend Races are super buff.  Have fun with the new setup.  Healing is being scaled some which makes for interesting,a hard hit to the Druid, but that systems needs to be tweaked either way as it was too easy to action heal.  It may not be perfect this wipe and 8 man groups will make clans interesting, but I think you'll do just fine and the world merchant will be fully stocked per usual by the end of the year. 

On that note, ask clans to group you and get to know some of them.  Plus if you read the other thread, mobs are adjusted accordingly to the change as well.   We can teach you how to beat bmobs.  I love that zone.     
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: walters on December 09, 2015, 07:08:48 PM
just switch it to way back when. you remember when you had that cold steel sword and felt like a badarse because it was actually decent... or when you couldn't rank until you reached lvl 30 max xp. this game has become a lot easier so just be aware things were possible when a 3d5 2/2 prime and a +5 bash shield were considered BIGGER pieces of gear. before shaman lived and heal cloud was a spell. you have joined the squishy form of the mud. be glad you haven't had the pleasure of meeting Xellos yet he is usually good at ruining anything you plan on doing.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Gnua on December 09, 2015, 10:12:24 PM
i just worry that they forget about the bad players with these changes...we were close to killing bmobs last wipe.  i would really like another chance to do it this time.

So are you saying that when the nerf-bat scales things down for the bmobs capable people, the people for whom bmobs is too difficult suffer unnecessarily?  Sort of like when fearsome naked legend black robes arrived, +CL came later to compensate but hurt the mages that were non-legend? Now that legend healing cloud has dominated two wipes, heal% comes in to compensate but hurts the heal types that are not legend?

Are you suggesting that these limiting factors should only apply to legendary characters and so a naked legend will be as weak as a regular non-legend?

Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Jorquin on December 09, 2015, 10:57:34 PM
I think that casting level argument is a little skewed, there had already been efforts to a naked mage's power (area limit) prior to robed mages being introduced. Casting level was a later incarnation of the same idea which happened to be implemented shortly after the three robes... I wouldn't directly attribute one to the other.

Also if you remember correctly it was white and red robes that were the most ridiculous at that period, the rise of the black robe came later.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Gnua on December 09, 2015, 11:24:17 PM
Casting level was a later incarnation of the same idea which happened to be implemented shortly after the three robes... I wouldn't directly attribute one to the other.

Perhaps I am seeing causation when only correlation exists (legend robes -> casting level, healing cloud -> heal %).  https://xkcd.com/552/

Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Baxter on December 10, 2015, 01:15:30 AM
Super Tacoman, pm me, maybe later in the wipe I can help you out.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: jrrestad on December 10, 2015, 04:06:17 PM
Don't forget the reduction in available +dams, and the subtle nerf to assault.  Or the removal of flank.

Things change, I guess.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: oom on December 10, 2015, 04:26:47 PM
Hey Super Tacoman!

If you have a small little crew and want to learn a bit and zone with some cool guys who know a tons and nothing at the same time come play with MYTH clan.

We've been around forever but are still learning many of the more "elite" zones in the game. We're good enough to do a lot of stuff but MYTH enough to always be a few seconds away from a mass R.I.P.

Send me a PM if you want to join us next wipe, you guys might even fit into a rush group and potentially have the first silver longsword that gets loaded in the new wipe!

In all seriousness though, you're welcome to group with us, you don't have to sign up for the clan tag, but after a couple weeks you might want to!

Goodie Tim/Troggdor/Oom/Pragor
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Super Tacoman on December 10, 2015, 09:40:32 PM
thanks to everyone who offered to help a poor arctic noob.  i am very surprised!  my past interactions with people on this game have found about 99% hostile 1% friendly.   

we will probably give it a shot with our small weak group and see how badly we fail, but i appreciate the offers.
Title: Re: attribute reduction
Post by: Gnua on December 10, 2015, 11:00:58 PM
thanks to everyone who offered to help a poor arctic noob.  i am very surprised!  my past interactions with people on this game have found about 99% hostile 1% friendly.   

we will probably give it a shot with our small weak group and see how badly we fail, but i appreciate the offers.

I've saved a few lives on the CR (and maybe killed a few when I forgot to turn it off) with this:
#action {^{\w+} disappears suddenly} {st; ca 'ri vo' %1}