Poll

Scouts...

kill them with fire
16 (53.3%)
leave them alone
14 (46.7%)

Total Members Voted: 28

Voting closed: November 04, 2015, 02:18:51 PM

Author Topic: Scouts  (Read 14243 times)

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jrrestad

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2015, 10:11:25 AM »
Burn then with fire...

I'm not currently mudding and am just waiting for the wipe.

I rarely post on here but I would love to see scouts disappear.  I hate this class.  As a clan leader I cringe when people tell me they are going to play a scout.  The only scout I enjoy is sky because they don't take much gear away from the other classes and volley is seriously awesome in groups.  Sky scouts are overpowered in groups, big time, but nobody ever plays them because all they do is aim, shoot auto, repeat.

Here's some suggestions:
Ditch the scout all together, they are too foreign for arctic.  Instincts are weird.  The way you get your instincts is annoying.

Bring back rangers and keep primary focus on shooting.  Archer theme.  Allow bows to still hit when engaged in combat.

Sneak and hide should be more useful and encourage 'rangers' to wear leather.  These could give an initial bonus hit, extra damage, paralyze spec etc.

Ditch hunt, give them track.  Odd skill doesn't fit.

Could give them forage skill, everyone still eats for free, handy.

Ditch or revamp fence.  Also odd weird skill.  Give them parry or make fence innate like shield block.  Allow it to work with bows. Or give them dodge.

Ditch riposte.

Keep hp's the same.

Keep camp.

Ditch shoot.  Kill works if they can engage in combat, like they used to.

Give them a skill that works like volley, has a chance to miss or multi-shot.

Keep wildfire or give them envenom.  Maybe buff it a little.

Allow bows to work underwater.  It may seem silly that an arrow can travel through water, but swinging a sword or mace with the same furiosity as on land is equally silly, so is casting magic spells.


Here's the why:
There is already sky scout gear in place that is specific for 1/3 of 1 class which is dumb, yet there's already infrastructure for this theme that wouldn't have to be change.  Who needs another melee class anyway.

Setting too many limits on these skills makes them useless.  You want a class that can be played in any zone.  Think Paladins before righteous indignation.

Sky scouts are the model for this idea but they are boring to play.  They need more in-combat skills.

This class idea, unlike sky scouts, should have some capacity to solo.  Again, the bow limitations are a nuisance.



snax

  • Guest
Re: Scouts - eh limited lazy fix.
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2015, 12:52:51 PM »
Remove legend from the scout class, much like a NE or CE dark knight can't quest, all scouts are so indebted to hugging the trees that they simply shy away from the feats of hubris required to be a public figure worthy of legendary status.

addresses every issue I think I read about and requires no other tweaking.

eddiex

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2015, 04:50:26 PM »
So I realize I got completely away from point of this thread. I think scouts should be removed but if they stay here are a few suggestions for adjustments which are more tangible and useful than bickering.

Replace hunt with track

Make volley time based not round based. This solves the issue of continuous volley at legend. Maybe 30-45 sec pre legend with 4 tic cool down  and 1-1.5 min at legend with same cool down

Remove shoot auto. This is one facet of making this class a complete bore. Might make them more tedious but more engaging.

Remove fade in room lag for skies at least. In a fight with massive area sky scouts can hardly even act due to constant fade lag.

Lower dam bonus on highest level arrows (Phoenix. Fletched)

Lower ranged hr significantly on volley if it remains the same

Make thrash only possible to land when a target is standing to avoid lag stacks

Make roar flee opponents significantly less.

Lower innate dam bonuses of mountain instincts increase cd on anger significantly. If burst remains.

Just my suggestions. I think evade is fine as is. Ive lived through cyan or as long as group mates with a legend mountain. I don't think there are serious issues with the effectiveness beyond skys being over engaged when their combat relies on being out of combat.

Dran

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2015, 05:13:30 PM »
I'm curious what "core mud mechanics" they break.  I'm not suggesting this isn't true, I just can't think of what it would be.  The inability to be tracked might count, but despite the 'help legend scout' listing it, it doesn't seem to be enabled any more, if it ever was.

I play as an ocean scout, mostly solo.  I find them a lot of fun and don't feel overpowered.  Mostly I feel weak until I got the legend instincts, at which point I feel reasonably good at solo, still not OP in any sense in big groups.  I can't speak to the other 2 scout types.  But I will miss ocean scout if it goes away.  Please don't remove it hastily, and without a worthy successor.

Jorake

  • Zone Leader
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Re: Scouts
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2015, 11:33:31 PM »
If you used jrrestad idea... I'd be pretty happy. Sounds like an awesome class. Ranger/scout hybrid. DO NOT GIVE THEM BASH! I would keep the instinct thing there though. And make the mobs harder to kill, rare load even if it does get killed.

Also, remove the scout skill. I've had several legend scouts and I can't ever think of a time i used it outside of training it.

jrrestad - Amazing idea

Anthony

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 41
Re: Scouts
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2015, 10:03:04 AM »
I'm curious what "core mud mechanics" they break.  I'm not suggesting this isn't true, I just can't think of what it would be.  The inability to be tracked might count, but despite the 'help legend scout' listing it, it doesn't seem to be enabled any more, if it ever was.

I play as an ocean scout, mostly solo.  I find them a lot of fun and don't feel overpowered.  Mostly I feel weak until I got the legend instincts, at which point I feel reasonably good at solo, still not OP in any sense in big groups.  I can't speak to the other 2 scout types.  But I will miss ocean scout if it goes away.  Please don't remove it hastily, and without a worthy successor.

The already posted mountain roar is an example of breaking a core mud mechanic. Though I would guess it has been hot-fixed in many places; for many years, there were a fair number of fights that would flee out various mobs and drastically alter the fight from what a creator originally intended. Unlimited MVs via scouts and the result of having that available super early in the game (low level, right after wipe) has certainly changed some things. Hunt was game-breaking when it was first introduced and actually worked... it eliminated a number of gates on both PK and zoning instantly. I can only imagine that behind the scenes all the stats and flags that are wonky because scout instincts plus various spells plus various items push things beyond their intended ranges.... evade is kind of janky as well in that it shifts balance in lots of situations.

There are some other more interesting places where mechanics were 'bent' a bit. I still remember being grouped with an early scout and seeing the first use of the bow mechanics, where the shots fell on pulses, etc. was really cool at the time.

Jorake

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2015, 06:09:04 AM »
Druids have unlimited moves too. I think that is fine for scouts. I also think the !track thing is a nice perk for them too. It makes more sense if it were on a thief, or some type of hard track for both. Maybe you have to be within 30 rooms and be awarenessed etc.

Gramm

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2015, 02:59:24 PM »
druids are the weakest class for sure, THOSE should get buffed!!!

Lashric

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2015, 07:15:51 PM »
My class will probably die..sad!  Oh well, I am tired of being deleted anyways.

Morte

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2015, 07:37:00 PM »
I remember old rangers. Not as good as a warrior when it comes to bashing and not as good as old paladin because they got hold person and lay. Seems if rangers are coming back why would anyone bother playing one. If you want a sneaking bash buy sneak hide rank and wear non glowing items.

btown

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2015, 05:46:06 AM »
they did good melee damage also.  rangers were well rounded.  also good trackers

walters

  • Guest
Re: Scouts
« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2015, 06:36:40 AM »
^---------Worst scout player ever.

Lashric

  • Newbie
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Re: Scouts
« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2015, 08:25:04 AM »
Reading all these posts, it seems like only 1/4 of you guys know anything at all about scouts.  Ocean is extremely balanced period.  Mountain..even I can admit is over-powered and roar is just "JEW".  Finally...sky scouts are amazing and fun, I'd say only reduce volley targets and your good to go.

Chisul

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2015, 09:06:33 PM »
Fun = going zone to zone roaring the zone apart.

Kadaj

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Re: Scouts
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2015, 07:29:29 AM »
Ocean scouts being able to bite and swarm every other round for quite a bit of damage with 0 items is pretty bapting stupid. Mountains just deal extreme amounts of damage with very little damage items needed as well. Sky scouts are so ridiculously easy to gear up since no one really plays them to do absurd amounts of damage as well is just silly. I would absolutely LOVE to see the old rangers back, being able to shoot in combat was extremely fun, however I would suggest something perhaps like the burst skill or maybe an arrow shot to the knee for a bash spec, SOMETHING to type other than 'assist'.  It used to be assist and just maybe try and bow bash cause you had nothing else to do.

Keep track, camp, riposte, fence, remove wildfire, hunt, scout.