Poll

Should immortals be involved with people whining about pk issues?

YES!
Yeah, I'm one of the people who wine.
Yes but only if it is on players under lvl 15 with-out limited gear.
NO!
I don't care enough to put forth a vote.

Author Topic: Should immortals handle pk issues?  (Read 11802 times)

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walters

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Should immortals handle pk issues?
« on: July 23, 2015, 12:36:58 PM »
Just trying to see where people stand on involvement of the staff handling issues on a PK mud.

albarn

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 01:29:18 PM »
Yes, but limited and only in 2 scenarios:

1) We have an ever-shrinking player base.  We can all take our fair share of the bumps in the night, and can dish them out too.  But, in cases where there's egregious, repeated griefing in an active attempt to get someone to leave and not come back, I'd support IMM involvement. 

2) This mud used to be vicious - as a new player, you could be charmed, walked to the bank, commanded to withdraw all your money and drop it, then have a thief come and steal all your gear off you.  From the mechanics-side, there has been a lot of balancing, which I absolutely continue to support (and which makes Arctic a better game).

Which, neither of these really works for voting, so take it how you will.

Gramm

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 02:25:30 PM »
Time and time again some idiot has proven he will take pk way too far, and long after their enemies are defeated they will still keep them sitting in the inn. If the playerbase COULD handle ITSELF then no immortals shouldnt get involved, I think this is like beating a dead dog at this point personally, no matter what we would all like to think, some fool will always be a fool. At least the immortals are attempting to handle broken aspects of this game. Do I agree with the tactics used always, no, do i think we can fix it ourselves without divine intervention in many cases, no.
As long as there are people acting with malice and spite as has been demonstrated time and time again until people are forced to quit.... then i am sorry but my personal opinion is that, absolutely immortals will be called upon to do the right thing. if the immortals dont, who the hell will? certainly not ourselves, we have had so many times to prove we are capable, but there are always a couple of people who find the fine line between pk and being complete "cotton pickin ninny muggins" , and they do a little tapdance all over it, if they dont cross it completely.

Hoodoo

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 04:02:56 PM »
In politics, this is called a "push poll".   The answer is fairly obvious: Gramm just put it out there.   "Yes, when appropriate."

muddeer

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2015, 05:25:57 PM »
I never random pked and certainly was a victim of it enough times, but I always believed pking, and even griefing to certain extent, was an important and necessary component in what made Arctic a great game.    With experience you learned to reduce the frequency of becoming a victim to an acceptable level; one of the things that separate good players from bad in Arctic (knowledge is power).

But now, I don't think Arctic can allow randoming and griefing unchecked with its low population.  For one thing, new players are now mostly soloing, unable to find/form a group; easy targets.  Moreover, you may be the only possible target online when some dickhead decides to log on and grief.  It used to be that when a known randomer logged on, you could still play, solo xping or popping items or exploring, because the chance of you being his target was small.  Not anymore.  Now you just log off, and hope that when you check back later, he's offline.  Some dickhead is dictating when you can play Arctic; a great selling point for attracting new players.

BTW, consider how worse things would be if a player new to Arctic has to deal not with a single griefer but the griefer + his 9 bots.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 05:33:34 PM by muddeer »

Bunsen

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2015, 06:48:58 PM »
2) This mud used to be vicious - as a new player, you could be charmed, walked to the bank, commanded to withdraw all your money and drop it, then have a thief come and steal all your gear off you.  From the mechanics-side, there has been a lot of balancing, which I absolutely continue to support (and which makes Arctic a better game).

I miss those days...

Hoodoo

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2015, 07:08:52 PM »
If we had 200+ players again, a small percentage of griefers would make the game lively.  With 20, it makes the game feel like prison, at night, without guards, or lube.

muddeer

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2015, 07:28:13 PM »
2) This mud used to be vicious - as a new player, you could be charmed, walked to the bank, commanded to withdraw all your money and drop it, then have a thief come and steal all your gear off you.  From the mechanics-side, there has been a lot of balancing, which I absolutely continue to support (and which makes Arctic a better game).

I miss those days...
Well, I don't miss the permanent hit point loss with deleveling, or the 6 hours (I think) of lowered health after death so you couldn't level, or Morgion logging on his thief to go on a drunken rampage....  While I do think Arctic has become too soft in some instances, it wasn't all roses and peaches.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 08:11:12 PM by muddeer »

Neyman

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2015, 10:29:56 PM »
The griefers are awesome. I mean really, I think evil Tim has really brought us all closer together. Actually I'm not even sure he is a griefer. Not even sure who the griefers are. Everyone is pretty chill. The only griefer is that coriander guy.

it makes the game feel like prison, at night, without guards, or lube.

Err isnt this why we play? Cmon ... nothing like the fear on the back of your neck as you swim through a underwater dark tunnel in shoal, never knowing who is gonna pop out and poke you with an unlubed shiv. You know you like it. And so much more titillating when a player stabs you rather than a mob. Can really feel your heart skip a beat as you feel that poke! Not bad for a text based game :)

Anyway, just causing trouble. Couldn't resist the prison comment.  But better than tentacles!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 10:44:25 PM by Neyman »

eddiex

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2015, 01:22:37 PM »
« Last Edit: July 24, 2015, 01:26:45 PM by eddiex »

Gramm

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2015, 03:24:50 PM »
Hahaha yes there are a lot of pussies eddie, and there are lots of dicks as well. Now when a dick begins to have matching callouses with a certain pussy, it is time to let the wounds heal brother.... Some dicks just keep on pumping like it aint no thang. This is abuse of another player no matter how you paint it.

The only time I personally would consider asking an immortal who has been put there to help the game... for help, is when there is a zero % chance of beating the person comin after me, and ive already been defeated a few times over. And they refuse to make peace with me, or ask something ridiculous that they know cannot be done for  peace... There are some elite players in this game that absolutely should know when enough is enough and understand they are damaging the game with pk tactics vs helping it.
There should be some sort of PK Geneva code outlining when too far is too far lol. No more mustard gas tactics! Play nicely lads! I never bitched once last wipe when a wild thief stabbed me and 2 friends to death without anyone of us realizing what was going on. It was bloody brilliant and i remember telling him so. But if someone wants to stop me or a friend from logging onto the mud even... what the hell is wrong with you??

reed23

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2015, 05:06:01 PM »
Gramm - you were once a saught after pk target.  How many wipes has it been since u were grief ed and by who??

eddiex

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2015, 06:39:52 PM »
I agree there are times when a player has taken their liberties to ok someone a little too far. But I don't think that is the common trend. Rarely is someone continually hunted until they have no time to play. And I would say that a person as dedicated to hunting someone probably does have a reason to begrudge their target. At some point enough must be enough, but that point is clearly outlined in the help player kill file or whatever. Basically multi killing someone without giving them the chance to reequip is the line established in the rules for at least a decade.

What I have seen from the pacifist population of this mud is a stretching of the defined rules of player killing for whatever reason that may guarantee them absolution and safe passage indefinitely.  I remember a specific instance where RISE was returning to the mud from over a month of hiatus due to deletion. We came to bash Gramm to oblivion and harvest his equipment. Did we multi kill him? Did we troll him? No we just pk'd him once and he took to the forum immediately.

My point is not to shame Gramm here, it is only that there is a lot more whining from pk then you're letting on in your previous post. To say there is 0 hope of retaliation at that point of the wipe when we had 0 legendary characters and this was mid wipe is absurd.

If people want to charge player killers with being more mature and measured in their activity, maybe they should themselves be more mature and not bitch and moan in every instance they get player killed. It is a pk mud. It can and should happen. It should be expected. It should not be met with oh poor little me. I lost my coveted hammer of kakapoopoo. These people are griefers

Gramm

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2015, 06:43:50 PM »
i learned my lesson i am not calling anyone on outright or name calling specific people here, or for that matter using the term trash. But to try and say that an immortal should stay out of it altogether is too far. My point mostly is that, we have proven time and time again, we are incapable of handling the issues like gentlemen in too many cases. This doesnt mean every case. But some people are incapable of logging on to just zone and or learn and or teach. Some folks as stated will log on at like 5am and hunt the only other 2 people online and even if they dont need the gear on the corpses they make, will take it all and drop it somewhere randomly anyways.

I get that before i learned the ropes fully in this game that was certainly more common, i still wont afk at the tollhouse and or town square or silly places like that. And i have learned to respect the fact that my personal approach to arctic is not the solution for every player. Its great to keep things competitive and hit folks now and then.

I just feel that absolutely every person who still plays this mud and has any ounce of respect for the game and its survival should be aware of the repercussions of their personal actions towards the other players.

Sure, fight kill each other, play with your toys and strategize to conquer the competition, but dont keep them from logging on again, if its a challenge you want.... allow your enemies to fight back. The clan that at any point in time is clearly winning in terms of orbs, nobashes, hasted tanks and whatnot should not be striving to kill any other clan that is trying to build up for a fight while they are still in their infancy.

If you want a challenge or if you have that much desire to fight someone,  and you are already clearly in the lead why dont you as a clan tell the competing clan, "you have one month, then we are coming to fight you" everyone always tries the surprise tactic, but the real game champs should not need the element of surprise because they should have the power of knowledge and numbers"  , and if the underdog decides to strike before that month is up, then they will pay for their follies early!

It just seems to be a pattern wipe after wipe is all, one group whoever it is, gets all the nice shinies and then does whatever they can to choke every other group out of growing into competition. If yall wanna see those wicked 10v10 logs, yall need to let 10 enemies get ready to fight you before you stomp them out in the early growth phase.

In any event I believe this is a touchy subject because there have been many victims on both sides of this argument who have had their gameplay wrongfully tampered with by both other players and immortals.

In some cases we need immortals to step up and do whats right, in some cases we should expect more self control from players so that the imms do not have to.

reed23

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Re: Should immortals handle pk issues?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2015, 07:04:07 PM »
See Gramm I hate to say this but u are misinformed.  This wipe we did get a lot of the shinies but Wilds scored a huge kill on us killing 6 or 7 of us at hct.  When we were once again deleted, wild had the upper hand in the war and it wasn't even close.  We were planning on scraping ourselves together to compete with them but didn't get the chance.

Just like eddie said it's this mentality that has overcome the mud to feel like they are picked on and run to the immortals the second someone gets pk'd.  Let me make myself clear, we were getting our asses handed to us and it would have been a long shot for us to climb out of that hole.

Other than maybe brandon, I don't know of anyone who was griefed and had a big red target on their backs over the past 4 eipes.  If anyone wants to make up bullshit about ride go ahead. But the facts are that the clan cleaned up their act big time over the previous 3 to 4 wipes.  And when we were getting drug up and down the street by daniel and ilya clan 5 eipes ago before we knew what we were doing, did we cry?  Did they basically try to keep us from playing i.e. gain strength to compete? Yep.  How about when rise made a combat 2 wipes ago after deletion and wilds would hunt down 5 rise leveling I. Lytburg at lvl 26  with 0 dams and 3d5 primes.  Did we cry? Nope. 

It's like this mentality has overcome the mud that all these bullies have forced people to quit playing.  Let's be honest, there is only one reason that is forcing people to not play arctic and we all know what that is.