Author Topic: Item Loading Delay Timer  (Read 10887 times)

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eddiex

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Item Loading Delay Timer
« on: July 13, 2015, 02:46:18 PM »
For many years people have maintained their limited equipment sets by "force loading" their equipment.  This is the act of intentionally destroying an item at an ideal time to better ensue the ability to retain possession of the item (by avoiding the possibility of randomly decaying in rent or shortly before you intend to log off).  Skilled players have often developed elaborate time sheets and data for decay timers of specific game items.

I propose Dragon Orbs, No Bashes, and any other limit 1 items determined to be game-changing have a new mechanic added to promote game competition and diversity.  Here is an example of the proposed change:

Dragon Orb:
If dragon orb is destroyed prior to natural decay -> dragon orb will not have potential of loading for random time between 48-96 hours

If dragon orb decays naturally -) dragon orb will not have potential of loading for random time between 0-36 hours

Purpose of proposal:
To create the potential of disrupting the monopolization of certain game changing items by one group of players, in turn giving other players greater opportunity to acquire game changing items.

Other ideas regarding the subject:
The delay timer can be determined on the ease of acquiring such an item hct orb delay is longer than cyan orb.
Questable limited items: ex: emerald short sword and mushroom hilted blade have longer delay timers

Anyone care to chime in on this idea?


Jorquin

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2015, 07:51:39 PM »
I'm not sure how this would be done, but i'm sure it's possible. I don't think it's a bad idea but it could promote douche-like behaviour from people trying to intimidate others out of areas. Tough to tell how players would handle it without seeing it in practice.

I'd argue this would be much more suited to low limit items from small quests rather than those from top end zones, since higher level zones have a natural barrier from perma-max (their difficulty) than solo or small quests. That said, the idea of making life harder for the people whose bread and butter is small quests / niche zones (aka the people that aren't steam rolling with 10 mans all day) is a bad thing as well.

I think it would be tricky for something like this to be implemented in a way that's equitable for both the power players and the little guys.

eddiex

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2015, 08:51:55 PM »
I had the same thought about people being d-bags and strong arming people.  I think if this is how things transpire, it would be a great example of the true nature of this game (many elite groups of players are greedy and asshats) not just one in particular.  That wouldn't particularly help the peace and serenity of happy arctic mud though.

The concept of people not being able to monopolize these game-changing items seems like something that should be considered, in this form or an alternative.  For years the clan who controls these items regularly keeps them for the majority of the wipe and with PK heavily regulated now there is even less likelyhood these items will ever change hands sans the owner quitting.

Other alternatives would be significantly shorter decay timers (but this doesn't address the "force loading").  Randomizing decay timers.  Or making more of them No_Rent.  They can be quite useful in one session and in accordance with the novels (HCT orb was destroyed after one use by Laurana, Tas destroyed Sleet's dragon orb, Cyan orb was used by Raistlin only (potentially making this mage only item).
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 08:53:48 PM by eddiex »

Jarrad

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2015, 01:28:54 PM »
I would go for a different strategy. Such items should always load. One real and the rest fake. Fake ones work as real ones but decay in 1-2 hours...

Hoss

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2015, 02:38:05 PM »
I am not sure there is a perfect solution to this, or if it is even something that needs to be addressed by game mechanics.

I am sure whatever system we could put in place will always have an unintended loophole that players would considered abuse and just start the cycle over. We are looking at load rates for items from a system perspective which should help a bit, but I think this one will need to be fielded by the players themselves. I know half if not more of the 'wars' started on Arctic were over a silly dragon orb, so maybe it is just adding player content in the long run.

reed23

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 08:37:36 PM »
Eddie - You know i love you but i'm not sure that the upper tier (top 10 items) need to be changed as you suggest.  I understand what you are saying because i have seen you literally purposely foom 10+dam on your thief and have everything repopped and refreshed in a single night, mostly because you are a legit player and know what you are doing.  Even if the load rate, as you proposed, was something like 0 - 3 days, a powerful clan that wanted that specific item back would most likely get it back.  They would run hct or amity non-stop for that time period, or spy the zone so they knew if they needed to protect their turf.

The bigger problem i see with the decay/rent system is good items (+dams, +stones, bash mod, etc.) that don't ever rent decay.  I remember when Fueling didn't log his druid for 2+months, finally logged back on, and still had a tiger ring from mithas (limit 2 or 3 item).  I'm sure that this isn't a big priority given limited time from the immortals, but that just seems wrong for people actively playing when items sit in rent for months on end.

Gramm

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2015, 05:21:11 AM »
Agree with reed on that, if someone doesnt log for a 1 week straight their limit 1 elite items should straight up auto foom, if you have a piece of gear that is as important as a dragon orb, or ancient green sword, or shadow orb, or dragonlance, it should be given to an active playing friend for safe keeping if you have to go on vacation, that way nobody is hording sick ass items into deeprent, and it keeps the elite items in play at all times. I personally love this idea reed. It would be a game changer. The deep rent is real folks, you all know it and those of you committing it can suck president deez nutz' nutz.

Zozen

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2015, 08:01:49 AM »
...if you have a piece of gear that is as important as a dragon orb, or ancient green sword, or shadow orb, or dragonlance...

ancient green sword



Gramm

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2015, 04:11:40 PM »
hahahahaha hey i love that weapon... if i was golem it would be my precious. trololol i couldnt resist adding it to that list, jokes that you called me on that though

but i do play daily.. and if i had to leave for a week id have NO problem putting it into safe barbarian hands... well given that most of us like to test out deathtraps nothing is truly safe in our hands i guess....
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 04:13:28 PM by Gramm »

eddiex

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2015, 06:44:14 PM »
Thanks for the feedback.

Alecto

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2015, 08:38:16 PM »
Deep renting is a particular problem when we get deep into the wipe, as we are now.  The most elite items should be the purvey of the players who play the most, not just the ones who were in the first rush group in October 2014.  Limit 1s should definitely have an aggressive timer where anything over 48 hours without logging starts counting as double time, and a full week counts as 10X normal decay rate. 

snax

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2015, 10:18:53 PM »
decay timer 12 hours = 1x, 24 hours = 2x, 48 hours = 4x, 72 hours = 8x, anything above that should add about 1000x rent per server hour to fix the game for decay timer......but that's a stupid idea from someone who's deep rented and came back a few times with 50-600k rents a few times this wipe.

of course I'm only down to about 200-300k coins nowadays as of last logon which is a far cry from where I was last time I logged on, and I was using mostly world merchant gear, still, punish deep renters especially after a month.  don't let me types get by with it every single wipe ad nauseum

Aristox

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2015, 06:07:37 AM »
Any system that requires a login to reset, or even in-game-time, is going to be abusable.

If the threshold is set such that after a week in rent you will be charged X times more rent or will decay at Y greater rate, people can easily setup scripts to log themselves in once a week or once a day to avoid the punishment.

If the requirement is time in game, the scripts can do the same thing:  login them in, leave them in the inn and then log them out after the threshold is reached.


Any solution to this problem has to be more clever.

reed23

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2015, 08:01:00 AM »
Aristox - I agree with you.  That is why, if possible, the decay timer on items could potentially not run, or run at a much slower rate when the character is not in a peace room.  Therefore, the scripts would log them in, but I don't know if I'd park a 10 dam char (insert whatever nice set you would like here) down down of solace inn without being active at my computer just to avoid decay.  Being in peace rooms would act the same way as when a character is rented. 

Again, I am no coder, but I see it like this, example

Dragon Orb set to "30 Day Decay Timer"
Rent/Peace = 1 Day Rented or in Peace room = 3 Days worth of Decay  (So if rented for 10 days, item would decay)
Non Rent/Non Peace = 1 Day in game = 1/2 Day worth of Decay

Probably a coding nightmare, but that could be maybe worked around by altering decay timers and only dealing with the coding in rent/peace while leaving the in-game decay timers as is.

eddiex

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Re: Item Loading Delay Timer
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 02:20:34 PM »
Why would they run at a slower rate when not in peace...?

If anything they should run at a normal rate when not in peace and excellerated rate when in rent or peace under your proposed system. Otherwise all of the limit one or lockable non-pickable/no relocation rooms will be the new resting places of the most stacked chars in the game.

Another potential idea is that items decay at a randomized rate (2x 3x 4x) each time a player logs on or off. This way no one has any idea just how long their item will last. Force loading would still take place, but it may make equipment maintenance a bit more complicated. A second idea is that items themselves would have a randomized timer. So a  revenger loaded on one run may have a 3 day timer, while the next time it pops it may have a 10 day timer.

I think either of these systems directly effect deeprenters because let's face it. The only way a deep renter maintains their equipment assuming it does in fact have a decay timer is a) force loading b) having a general idea of the length of the decay timer. To solve the issue of things never decaying in rent, make sure all items have a decay timer regardless of being rent/active.

What is the purpose of certain items having no rent decay anyway? Items have intrinsic value which justify keeping them, there is no reason for them to have special flags pertaining to decay (this only hinders competition which is the one of the main purpose of having item limits in the first place, right?)

Might I add: In my opinion the problem with other suggestions I'm seeing is that players want a change that only effects deep renters while everything else stays the same or rather doesnt effect the active player. It makes the issue infinitely more complicated to try to amend the decay system as it is tied to renting alone because of abuses made available by today's automation technology.

Finally, I believe the length of all items with extended decay timers should be reevaluated. If the most active player base is only around for 3 months of a wipe, there is no logical reason any item should have a 30 day decay timer. I believe these timers were relevant to a wipe system that lasted 1.5-2years, not 9-11 months. Simply shortening decay timers to a maximum of 2 weeks may increase player activity in general. The only exceptions should be equipment loaded from mobs/zones/quests that are done on a uncommon basis (endgame gear from cyan / bloodshoal etc).
« Last Edit: August 29, 2015, 03:13:41 PM by eddiex »