Caster Level

[blackmagus]

I say most often because not everyone has a fully spelled mage and the content of the thread if you bother to read it is aimed at the newer players and the marginal mages, not the fully spelled, full set, CL 30.

In the decade and a half I've played on this server, every clan I've been in has promoted non-mages for everything but PK

[Zozen]

Just as you compared apples to oranges earlier:

A warrior with bash has always been the nemesis of a mage without nobash/hardbash. But that still does not take away from a mages power. I don't think anyone I have ever played with has ever even remotely thought about having to maintain their CL. The only people worried about CL are the trash teleporters.

I say most often because not everyone has a fully spelled mage...

Then they aren't doing end game content and won't have to worry about not going to it.

Every clan promotes warriors because not everyone should be playing a mage. They just don't have the mentality for it. It requires, as I said, a lot of attention. If you aren't casting every round and optimizing your mem then you aren't nearly as effective as a similarly stacked warrior over a long period of time. However, if you do use your spells efficiently and have your conjure out then you will outdamage most people.  Newer players, I believe, are still 'urged' to play a class such as a warrior or barbarian or other tank type until they learn the game. Mages have always been difficult to play, difficult to balance, and difficult to spell. Which is why I never played one on the 'end game' side of things. But once the mage is there they are overpowered (especially pvp) and stupid. Put 5-6 fully spelled legend mages together and the game is broken.

[Chisul]

My two cents,

I've legended every single tank class over the course of my play time, but never played a Mage seriously. So what I'm saying is my game knowledge is pretty decent as a whole, but fairly limited when it comes to class specific stuff for each of the robes.

I rolled a black robe two days ago and have had absolutely no problem keeping my cl even with my actual level and with the exception of the headworn I am currently using, I solo'd every piece...and am at cl 24 right now.

I can see how casting lvl would be a pain if you had no idea where to go to get it, but I think this speaks to the fact that mages are really not for the new or casual player. Of course wanting to compete at high end/end game content really isn't in the cards for the new or casual player either. Wanting to become a powerful and competent Mage is a good goal, but changing game mechanics to get there seems like a weak argument to me.

Could someone come up with a better solution than CL to balance the class? Probably. But this, like just about every other challenge, simply needs a creative and tenacious approach to overcome.

Matt

[Neyman]

I like CL because it's another thing to worry about trade-offs in your gear. Do I wear the +3CL about robe and the +1 Int Wrist, or the +2CL + 10HP about robe and +1CL +1Wis wrist? How do I best optimize my CL to get it just to 30, without "wasting" slots by getting CL above 30? I dunno, but I find that stuff fun. I liked it to deciding between apply and -AC and resist etc for a tank.

I remember last wipe I had a legend black robe and a legend dk. What was each of these missing? The dk was missing "elite gear" like some crazy +10dr, lim dam, no bash, etc. The mage was missing the "big 4" spells. Maybe he was missing elite gear too but I have actually never really seen or heard of "elite mage gear" other than +all slot ring type things. I guess a mage no bash would be nice. I dunno. So in my opinion the correct comparison between tanks and mages is not CL vs. Dam Roll, but number of spells vs. Dam Roll. And what makes this interesting is that as a tank, yes you can DT and lose all your shinies, while as a mage you never lose your spells once you get them. So maybe it seems unfair to tanks. But on the other hand, the mage book race is SUCH a pain, and CR is often quite doable for tanks, that I dont think this is unfair at all to tanks at all. If anything it feels pretty balanced ... there were situations where the DK was more useful, and situations where the mage was more useful.

Anyway, just my experiences from the past wipe. And as I said in my first post, casting level was definitely one of the things that got me hooked on the game initially as a challenge to overcome and reason to explore and lore gear.

[jrrestad]

Casting level...ugh

Casting level was a well intended system, however we really missed the mark by making it too easy to get and too easy to maintain. I can say that our goal is to remove casting level, however it won't be going away this wipe. Comparing a warrior to mage damage isn't really a fair comparison as their is no longer a solid baseline now that damage is completely out of control (more on this later).

Hoss stop taking away all my +damages!  I don't wanna play a mage!

that said, i spent a lot of my time playing mages and i firmly believe there are many similarities between a parasite and a mage on arctic. they start as pathetic, insignificant things that attach themselves to a larger host in order to grow.

it's an interesting interaction, they can be some of the most powerful and fear inspiring characters possible, yet most of the time they're the weak link that group leaders secretly plan to replace with a level 26+ tank at the first opportunity

Perfect!

I have legendaried every class except for a mage and a scout because they are useless in zones and solo, however I have played around with mages every wipe.  You play a mage for only a few reasons, 1) because you are in a clan capable of loading every book and want to cast cool spells, 2) because PK isn't PK without a trash mage, 3) as a 3rd or 4rth alternate because somebody needs to burn all those books you load, or 4) and probably the most common reason is to piss off your zone leader and act dramatic when you're not catered to.

Mages are not for soloer's or even small clans.  Roll a druid or shaman instead.