Poll

Should item set stats be displayed to players?

Yes
52 (80%)
No
4 (6.2%)
Don't care
3 (4.6%)
checkbox
6 (9.2%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Voting closed: December 09, 2014, 11:30:12 AM

Author Topic: Item Set Feedback  (Read 30828 times)

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Hoss

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2014, 05:03:04 PM »
Quote
Are the set bonuses class restricted? Or could a scout wearing a warrior set get the bonus?

Class sets are restricted to the class they were designed for.

eddiex

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2014, 06:26:30 PM »
 I think your last post just reinforced the devaluing of elite tier gear when the set you just posted is not even clearly better than the thief set, in fact i believe it is still worse.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 07:10:20 PM by eddiex »

Kadaj

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2014, 06:28:48 PM »
You asked me to come up with a list, I did :) I'm happy with my six piece set. 

enochvey

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2014, 07:15:23 PM »
@enochvey:I believe there are less than a handful of rentable dam reduction gear and none that are nearly as easy load as that set. I don't think 15% dam reduction on any set is balanced comparably to elite tier dam reduc, although it does address the intended purpose of the class.

I can't speak for this wipe, but last wipe there were 2 sets of gear that I know of which had a limit dam bonus. This was in addition to the less than a handful of single items that gave the same bonus. Yes, the unavoidable fights were/are significantly harder than the bare minimum of what must be done to load the barb set, but they also didn't have the 2x rng issue I spoke of earlier after the fights were done.

Keep in mind, my perception of the difficulty involved in this is based at least in part on the fact that, I am still learning the faster way to check the barb load. Currently, I have to face smash my way though most of the zone on my own to even check the load. This is not easy on a barb, and takes a significant amount of time for someone who only plays that class. As you know, the zone itself offers little else for a larger group to come in and take the same face-smashing path, so if I want this set, I have to do it on my own, or find people willing to sell me the items! My perception may change some once I learn the faster way, and don't have to spend as much time checking for each chance to fail 5 out of 6 turn-ins if looking for the limited item.

Now before the idea of making a thief or another character to check the load easier comes up, I will pre-emptively say that it makes little to no sense that a person should be required to use one class to load an item for another class set. Ideally, the whole solo load thing would involve some sort of barb-only access thing and require the barb to have decent gear/ranks beforehand. Sort of like neraka arena, but barb-only access and balanced in relation to the value of the set. Sort of like omen for shamans, but not requiring the prep beforehand since omen doesn't decay once you get it :P

I agree that rentable dmg reduction wasn't easy to come by before those two sets I spoke of, but even with those two sets only two more people in the entire mud were able to get it. Now, at least one of those sets has been deactivated, and the other I have not been able to check yet, but I am assuming it has been deactivated as well. We didn't have a bunch of tanks rolling around last wipe with limit dam gear because of those sets, and now at least one of those limit dam sets is gone.

Adding limit dam to one class set, with a limit 1-2 chokepoint, is going to produce about the same number of limit dam tanks as the now deactivated set(s) had brought into the game before. Now adding limit dam to all tank, or potentially tank class sets yeah, I can see how that could overflow the mud with near-invincible tanks and devalue single, or even multiple ellite tanking items.

But as it stands, the only two classes I see right now that putting the limit dam on makese sense with are paladins and barbs. Paladins got it, and while I'm sure there is some reason, or several reasons why it wasn't included on the barb set, I guess I just disagree that 1-2 more limit dam barbs on the mud (even when/if not me) is going to break things.

Jang Yoo Sung

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2014, 11:49:57 PM »
eddiex u keep comparing 6 piece of 'elite tear' gear to 6 set pieces

what abt 5 piece of 'elite tear' gear and 5 set pieces?
i would gladly trade 6 set pieces for the aforementioned 6 'elite tear' gears
are u open for trade? probably not, because if u decayed one of the 'elite tear' gears u can go and repop
whilst the set pieces load in random locations and therefore when u decay it it can be lost easily
and also whilst thief set may be powerful, this was the same for the set the previous wipe
it all goes down to whether u are the 'set' type of person, or individual gear type of person
because both have their advantages and disadvantages

i think the new sets provided great new content to this wipe
and a chance for us newbies to become a little bit more powerful too
i think if they were any weaker i wouldnt bother to try to load em


Neyman

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2014, 12:04:01 AM »
I think what's sort of interesting is that, assuming that there is only 1 limiting slot per set, then that limit item is worth a LOT. For example, consider how much you gain going from 4 piece barb set (which is not too hard to get) to a 6 piece set: -30AC, +1HR, +1DR, +2STR, +1CON, +5 Charge, +15% healing, +5 Ghostdance, Hardbash, NPP, NV, ImmFear. Thats pretty intense. Makes me wonder how much someone would pay for this limit item, and how that would compare to how much people pay for some of the other "top tier elite" items in the game. Unfortunately I suck too much to actually know a good example of an elite item being sold. In fact I'd be curious if ANYONE has sold the limit set item yet. If the answer is no, then I think that means that the full sets are indeed being treated as "elite gear".

Anyway regardless of all this musing of overpowered underpowered blah blah, I think based on the shout log its pretty clear that these sets are a huge hit and people are totally digging them: they are the hot new thang all the cool kids want!

Grimwar

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variety is the spice of life
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2014, 12:49:42 AM »
If a game is about interesting choices, then why not also bring back (and even add) NON-class-specific sets?   More alternatives = better.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2014, 12:52:02 AM by Grimwar »

Jang Yoo Sung

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2014, 01:07:34 AM »
Agreed! bring back black dragon hide

Jorquin

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2014, 07:08:36 AM »
i could rattle off various 6 item combinations that are vastly superior to the sets for almost all classes

many logical minded people would counter by saying "but surely those combinations contain a variety of unique, difficult to acquire items!", and you would be correct. that said, over time the total pool of beast-mode equipment has increased as more zones are added and the player base has either stayed constant or possibly declined (open to interpretation). powerful unique items are more common and on average better than in years gone by. many items that were previously considered elite are now in the middle of the top tier pack.

it's common to see one or two specific groups amassing hoards of those unique items and becoming god-like powerful while others are left in the dust, having little opportunity to close the gap. i'd argue the sets provide players with a greater opportunity to close that gap.

you have to be realistic. there's no spell_mod on these sets, hardly any hard bash (barbarian was the only one i think?), minimal damroll, no immunity to elements or blind, no mass saving_spell, etc. i'm not going to tell you that the sets aren't strong - because they are, but if you believe that it's incredibly difficult to get a better combination of items then it's likely that these sets are designed to help you catch up with those guys who are packing 4+ limit one's totalling 8 damage along with nv, trueseeing, nosummon, nocharm, minor resists and 3 attribute stats (just an example i mentally concocted from some items i've used in the past).

that said i have to agree with the statement that some sets are perhaps a touch too buff (flat %'s on dk/paladin) while others are maybe a touch too weak, but overall i'd say they're not too far off the mark.
 


tldr: you're not going to mass oblit, stun everyone in the room, be practically nobash or generally a god in any of these sets. sure they're good, but compared to the strength of many unique (or low limit) items they're far from overpowered... and there really is a lot of unique items these days.

Hoodoo

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2014, 12:14:18 PM »
Hi!   

I've been running the Ghillie Suit for a while now, maybe a week or so.  Well-tested now, in solo and tanking/grouping.  My  thoughts:

Yes, it's a powerful set.  However, it's not elite.  Here's why.

There are major holes in the set, stats that I honestly need to zone that I'm having issues equipping for given the limits of the set.  That's not to say I don't love the set: I do.  However, for example, while using the set, I have issues with spell/stun saves unless I equip -2/-3ss.  The minimal strength on the set means I have to equip a fair chunk of +str to help out my kender.   I'd love to slot a few more int for instinct damage, but finding the places to put it is a challenge, given the 6 major slots are taken already. 

Some of the sets don't have as strong an issue with this as I do: after all, nobody's supposed to be tanking void on a 550 hp scout anyway, so my set isn't exactly designed to do what I do, and the bennies on the scout set are a bit more wide-ranging and less targetted than, say, the barb set.  However, equipping any of these sets gives you weaknesses that can easily be exploited in PK, and limits your ability to stack +dam in the ancillary slots due to needing to fill in those holes. 

The sets rock, but they do force choices, and I can easily see how one might wish to break the set to get a more focused purpose for their character.

That being said, some of the sets seem a bit overpowered compared to the others: personally, I'd point towards ornate and fiery on those.  It's a minor issue, though, IMHO: gearing for elite individual eq gives you more control over your character's strengths and weaknesses. 

Jason


eddiex

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2014, 01:39:20 PM »
eddiex u keep comparing 6 piece of 'elite tear' gear to 6 set pieces

what abt 5 piece of 'elite tear' gear and 5 set pieces?
i would gladly trade 6 set pieces for the aforementioned 6 'elite tear' gears
are u open for trade? probably not, because if u decayed one of the 'elite tear' gears u can go and repop
whilst the set pieces load in random locations and therefore when u decay it it can be lost easily
and also whilst thief set may be powerful, this was the same for the set the previous wipe
it all goes down to whether u are the 'set' type of person, or individual gear type of person
because both have their advantages and disadvantages

i think the new sets provided great new content to this wipe
and a chance for us newbies to become a little bit more powerful too
i think if they were any weaker i wouldnt bother to try to load em

Ys the reason I wouldn't trade you my set for thief set has nothing to do with your thoughts. I spent many hours during wipe rush with peak population ensuring I get the items I wanted. I may never see them again if I lose them. I have invested many hours repopping the eq, why would I trade it for a set of 4 or 5 unlimited items and a sixth item that that can be acquired in a week or two of persistence.

I can be assured I can get an ornate set. Yet, the items people may never load are not even significantly better? Weird.

Hoss

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2014, 04:51:38 PM »
Some of you may have noticed that I took a quick damage reduction pass to the class sets and adjusted some of the bonuses they provide. This discussion has been great feedback so far and I value your responses on the topic.

Jang Yoo Sung

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2014, 09:55:17 PM »
if i may add, paladins get a +5 slam for full set
but as many paladins know this skill is useless...


March 8th, 2013 -- A New Wipe, Same Slaughter

Paladins:
Slam skill is now easier to land.

it was posted in last year's wipe that slam was made easier to land
but i felt it was even harder to train that b4......
as a paladin who has put countless hours to train this skill albeit the frustration in doing so
i would like to point out that this skill is not useful at all, basically because it hardly ever lands even at superb
i can confidently say that no other paladins...maybe other than alecto if my memory serves me right... has even trained slam to superb

every other class gets a kewl new skill at legendary, but paladins get a useless skill
if this was not ur intention in the beginning please fix it or replace it with some other skill
a skill that nobody trains at legendary...i think there's something wrong with that...

Zozen

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2014, 12:54:24 PM »
Couple people using the sets, mainly see tanks with them until they get 2-3 elite unique gear then transfer the set off or use the 4 piece until they can fill in the other slots.

Mage set:

Any mages using it?

It says:

HIT by 25
and
HIT by 20

...which is it? Or is it 45?

Hoss

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Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2014, 01:05:27 PM »
Thank you for catching the typo in the mage set. The correct bonus is 10 and 20.