Poll

Should item set stats be displayed to players?

Yes
52 (80%)
No
4 (6.2%)
Don't care
3 (4.6%)
checkbox
6 (9.2%)

Total Members Voted: 61

Voting closed: December 09, 2014, 11:30:12 AM

Author Topic: Item Set Feedback  (Read 29267 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gulca

  • Zone Leader
  • ***
  • Posts: 318
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2014, 07:08:25 PM »
I would like to propose some of the following tweaks and lay out the reasons behind them.

1. Different tiered individual stats on set pieces. This can be simple as having a range of basic stat on a particular piece. And the range is a function of where/whom you pop it from.

Here is an example.
A ornate boot have range of 0 to 2 dex, 5 to 20 mv, 0 to 10 apply. If you pop it from a mid level zone, it will have the lower range. If you pop it from a zone like Ancient, it will have the higher range.

2. More mobs that load set pieces. With the implementation of #1, you can have more mobs loading the pieces without necessary making them too powerful. Again, lower mobs should have lower % chance than higher mobs.
I'm basically implying any "named" mobs (from mid lvl to high lvl zones) of the set class should have a chance to load a piece.

A % load would be something like 0.1% for the mid mobs.

3. Limit chance of loading to the following
headwear, body (limited items): only high level zones
hand, arm, feet, leg (unlimited): mid to high level zones

With #3, it would make more sense to have 3 tiers instead of 2 tiers. You get bonus from 4 pieces to 5 pieces to 6 pieces.

So, in summary, a solo beginner player would have a chance to pop lower stat set pieces and still get the 4th set bonus. While clan and more advance players will have higher individual stat pieces and get the 5th and 6th tier set bonus.

Hoss

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2014, 11:02:39 AM »
Quick Update: As I can see from the overwhelming feedback, we will be adding the stats to the sticky post for class sets. I also will be removing the nightvision flag from the head pieces and adding it to the 6 piece bonus. Our goal is to have this information available to players in game, but that will take some time.

oom

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 97
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2014, 02:55:21 PM »
"And while it isn't 1 zone i think the idea behind the druid set is amazing. It would be awesome if there were more sets of that were obtained in the same way." - This is what I said in the ask the audience post, horrible grammar and all .. your welcome. :) -

I think the new sets are perfect. With the ways the rank system works, and the new set distribution there is no shortage of people wanting to zone at all hours. I think it's great. I think load rates are fine(selfishly I'd say up them) and set bonus for shaman *seemed* to be pretty good to me.

I honestly think the game itself, coding, classes, zones, etc., is in my opinion, the best it's ever been.
Thanks guys.
Tim/Oom/Pragor/Troggdor etc.

Kafilat

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 15
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2014, 05:29:33 PM »
Having now seen the actual set bonuses I'd like to retract my previous statement and say that the present bonuses are, in my opinion, a bit over the top.

Jorquin

  • Zone Leader
  • ***
  • Posts: 420
  • Favorite Zone: Danger Zone
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2014, 09:12:06 PM »
In my opinion given how annoying sets are to acquire (spamming the same mobiles) and also to maintain once put together, the set bonuses are pretty balanced.

I imagine you will still see most people in major clans as well as many people in smaller clans using combinations of low limit "elite tier" items, since their total benefits will likely be far greater than these sets provide - also the process of loading those items is probably less tedious and more enjoyable for all involved.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 09:14:03 PM by Jorquin »

eddiex

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 183
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 11:14:11 AM »
I partially agree with Jorquin.  While the sets may be tedious to pop and maintain, i don't agree that the benefits of "elite tier" items far outweigh the bonuses of these sets.  To me the effort put into scrambling to load these items during rush time and maintain them is negated by the high power of the 6 piece set bonus.

Ornate set bonus:
5% crits, 3hr, 3 dam, 2 str, 2 dex, 3 con, disable 10, regen 60%, retal 5, backstab mod 10, can_fly, sneak, hide, no charm, nv, imm curse, imm fear (this does not even include innate stats of individual pieces)

Limited thief set:
robe of twilight, black domino, chaos sols, battle kilt, sleeves of stealth, emil gaunts

I will not disclose the stats to the limited thief set, but i am assuming this is the type of "elite tier" gear we are referring to as better eq to replace a set with.  I think it is nearly impossible to rival the total value of the set with any limited gear.  The sets were supposed to be "good" but not diminish the quality of elite tier gear.  I mean if we paralleled the limited thief set and ornate set in rank points you can visually see how overpowered the set bonuses are.

Detractors may argue that the limited thief set i mentioned may be "easier" to pop, or damage oriented and a more balanced choice of 6 pieces would be a better comparison.  I'd challenge anyone to come up with a 6 piece set that is >= rank point value of the ornate set that doesn't include cyan gear.

To me these set bonuses say:  Well, if you don't have Cyan gear, use a class set, its the next best thing.

**Cyan gear example meant to be absurd since we all know no one person would ever be given 6 pieces of cyan gear in these slots

I'd also contend that anyone arguing that the set bonuses are balanced, is probably using the set themselves.

Finally, I'd like to say it is probably very difficult to come up with an item set that is good enough for someone to want to play with and maintain, without devaluing elite tier items.  So i appreciate the effort and will be attempting to complete this set for my backup legendary thief.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 11:30:07 AM by eddiex »

enochvey

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 01:12:16 PM »
So now that I've finally gotten my hands on the barb 6 set I have mixed reactions.

One the one hand, yes I REALLY like this set. On the other I think in some ways it might be a bit too good, and in other ways I would prefer different bonus's in place of the ones that are there now. So, hoping to not shoot myself in the foot here....

The set has what I consider the essentials for tanking in large groups, and some very nice solo bonus's as well. That having been said, there are extra's that I think could be exchanged for some things which are perhaps less powerful, but more relevant to a tanking role.

For example, NPP is nice, it has good uses as a main tank, but I do not consider it an essential bonus to have even when fighting lots of edrain/tenting mobs. I wouldn't mind trading it, and the imm curse as well for saves and/or resistances.

Also, I love the + dam, everyone loves + dam, but I like damage reduction even more. With how powerful a stat that + dam is, and how powerful dam reduction can be, trading the two would create a set that is less desirable for those who aren't specializing in maintanking (yes damage barbs do exist, and they can be scary), and more worth the effort of maintaining for clans/groups with barbs who are dedicated mains.

Also, in terms of the drop rate again. Having seen the stats, and seen not only the drop rate, but also the chance of loosing the quest item due to pieces being maxxed, i think the effort/reward ratio is good atm, especially on the easier to pop mobs, which appear to have pretty low drop rates.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 01:13:51 PM by enochvey »

Gnua

  • Immortal
  • Zone Leader
  • *
  • Posts: 489
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 01:29:33 PM »
I partially agree with Jorquin.  While the sets may be tedious to pop and maintain, i don't agree that the benefits of "elite tier" items far outweigh the bonuses of these sets.  To me the effort put into scrambling to load these items during rush time and maintain them is negated by the high power of the 6 piece set bonus.

The sets are very nice, but if the goal was to have sets fill a niche for a casual mudder because the clanned characters would be breaking the set to achieve better bonuses, I just dont see many (there will be some of course at the super elite level) clanned characters breaking the set for better gear.

eddiex

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 183
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2014, 02:37:47 PM »
Also, I love the + dam, everyone loves + dam, but I like damage reduction even more. With how powerful a stat that + dam is, and how powerful dam reduction can be, trading the two would create a set that is less desirable for those who aren't specializing in maintanking (yes damage barbs do exist, and they can be scary), and more worth the effort of maintaining for clans/groups with barbs who are dedicated mains.

Really? You want the set to be dam reduction and hard bash?  While i agree this would make an epic barb tanking set, i think that would just add to the case that these sets are OP.

Kadaj

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 04:21:11 PM »
I think you really need to get into the mindset of these sets.  It's not like you get 6 damage from 6 pieces of gear, you get a lot of utility. You also have to maintain these sets as well.  Fighting other people over the load spots and gear loads is tough.  You lose out on that one limit piece and well, you are stuck with 4/6 or 5/6 for a long time whereas if you lose your chaos sollerets you can go load them relatively easy.  In terms of raw damage yeah, going all out with damage in every slot is great if that's what you want to do, but you are not going to be able to get that with this set.  There certainly are items that have multiple flags of this set on one item that you could obtain(domino).  It basically comes down to, do you want damage body, head, hand, legs arms feet. Or do you want 3 damage and a lot of utility.  No one is forcing anyone to get these sets. I think you are just caught up in 'yeah i worked hard to get these damage items and some joeshmo from kokomo can just come along and load these items' The sets are limited. It's just a nice reward to people who want to go out and complete them.

enochvey

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2014, 05:02:17 PM »
In response to eddie. I have different opinions about the 4 and the 6 piece set, but yes I think the 6 piece set as is, or modified the way I proposed is not overpowered for what it takes to obtain and maintain it.


Six piece

The barb Set is already hardbash for the 6 piece version, and yes, I would like to see the +dam exchanged for reduced damage taken for the 6 piece set. The 6 piece set requires at least one limited item. I've lost two hides now because of this when I've done the turn in.

I don't know what the limit is, but it is probably low, and I don't have a problem with one or two low limit items making the difference between a good, general purpose, class-specific set, and an elite, specialized set for the same class.

Keep in mind, I'm saying this as someone who has the 6 piece, but will likely dt or similar and will eventually loose his hold on the limited item(s). It will take a LOT of work as someone who only plays his barb to maintain the 6 set solo, and even then all that work only results in a chance of getting the turn-in item.

Then, so long as I'm only needing one more limited item to re-complete the set, I have a 5 in 6 chance of not getting that item, even when I can get what a need to do the turn in. So the end result is I have a low chance of ever finding the trigger, but when I finally do, I can pat myself on the back and then play russian roulette with 5 bullets in the gun.

With that in mind, no, I really don't have a problem with the 6 piece barb set having the power it does now, whether or not that power is balanced between offense and defense as it is currently, or if it became defensively specialized. The tedium involved is literally multiplied in comparison to maintaining the other sets, which can be located, the mob killed, and the specific piece looted. Again with that in mind, replacing +dam with reduced damage taken for less than a handful of people in the game is not overpowered at all. 

Four piece

That having been said, I agree with you that the 4 piece set is too powerful as it is now. The four-piece in my opinion, should be more of a  general-purpose design for those clans and/or individuals who are using their barbs in a variety of roles, rather than dedicated, specialized main tanks. Right now the 4-piece has appropriate defensive and utility bonuses, but too much offensive power. I think that should be toned down some, although I don't have any bright ideas as to the exact details on how to do it.

 


Hoss

  • Elder
  • ****
  • Posts: 646
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2014, 10:47:07 AM »
The power or lack thereof in the sets was something we thought about for some time. It is a delicate balance between too power and garbage for gear. Our stat system currently does not allow for much wiggle room here. I very much appreciate the feedback we have received thus far, and look forward to others chiming in with their opinions on class set power. I too still feel that some sets are overpowered while others are very lacking.

eddiex

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 183
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2014, 01:53:45 PM »
  No one is forcing anyone to get these sets. I think you are just caught up in 'yeah i worked hard to get these damage items and some joeshmo from kokomo can just come along and load these items' The sets are limited. It's just a nice reward to people who want to go out and complete them.

I was addressing the original stated purpose of these sets which was to make them good but not devalue elite tier items.  But since you think my opinion is based on personal displeasure let me provide more questions for you to address.

I provided one example of what most people would consider an elite tier set. That being said in regards to thief set in particular: How is 6 dam of all limited gear much better than 3dam 5% crit 10 backstab mod to a thief?

How is a 6piece set of all limited gear including limit ones not harder to obtain than a six piece set with only 1 or 2 limited items, None of them limit one. To the average player.

Wasnt it you who dtd and not more than a week later had an entire new ornate set? I challenge anyone to load the aforementioned limited thief set or similar one in a week.

Can you provide any 6 piece item set of elite tier gear that rivals or compares to the ornate set in rankpoint value or total stats bonuses? I doubt there is any that come close.

@enochvey:I believe there are less than a handful of rentable dam reduction gear and none that are nearly as easy load as that set. I don't think 15% dam reduction on any set is balanced comparably to elite tier dam reduc, although it does address the intended purpose of the class.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 02:01:30 PM by eddiex »

Chisul

  • Immortal
  • Zoner
  • *
  • Posts: 181
  • Favorite Zone: Mage Tower
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2014, 02:48:56 PM »
Hoss,

Are the set bonuses class restricted? Or could a scout wearing a warrior set get the bonus?

Kadaj

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Item Set Feedback
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2014, 03:27:08 PM »
Off the top of my head, six pieces on those same slots I came up with:

str: 1
dex: 2
auto sneak
auto hide
detect invis
auto invis
detect magic
awareness
50% regen
damage 6
hitroll 3

For a total of: 45 rank points

regeneration/autoinvis do not exist as ranks.