Author Topic: Spell damage mechanics  (Read 7537 times)

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Yrch

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Spell damage mechanics
« on: August 27, 2014, 09:38:29 AM »
A few questions on mechanics that don't seem to be answered by info in the help files:

1. Does increase raw cast damage of spells?  Int says it increases memorization and learn rate. Doesn't seem worth stacking int for just mem/learn.

2. Does cast level reflect on the score screen?   Im wearing magi set which forum shows is +cast level, but my score sheet still shows no cast level bonus.

3. Is there an NPC or other in-game reference that gives starter info on spell components?  I've not been using spellcraft at all, as the HELP files in-game don't really give much info on what components are needed for specific spells, and im probably gimping myself by avoiding it.

Neyman

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 10:19:58 AM »
Here are my thoughts:

1. Does increase raw cast damage of spells?  Int says it increases memorization and learn rate. Doesn't seem worth stacking int for just mem/learn.
I dont think int helps spell damage directly. However, I think it helps indirectly. In terms of not being worth it for mem or learn, maybe it feels that way when everyone has MoC and legend read, but just wait until you fail learning some spell like rend ... then you will wish you stacked as much int as possible.

2. Does cast level reflect on the score screen?   Im wearing magi set which forum shows is +cast level, but my score sheet still shows no cast level bonus.
It should say your casting level quite clearly near the top when you type score. I have never had a problem with this. On the fun side, this also lets you know when some item has a fake lore :)

3. Is there an NPC or other in-game reference that gives starter info on spell components?  I've not been using spellcraft at all, as the HELP files in-game don't really give much info on what components are needed for specific spells, and im probably gimping myself by avoiding it.
I'm not sure if you are referring to spellcraft or brew/scribe, so I will deal with each of them. For spellcraft, all that matters is the spell sphere and the power of the component. When you type scribe or brew, depending on your skill, you will see a table telling you the components you have, their sphere, and their power. Suppose you have a mid enchantment component. This component can then be used for any of your enchantment sphere spells (to see the list, do spells enchantment). I typically save my components for tougher fights or special things like enchant, but its fun to play around with it. As for brew/scribe, that is a bit more complicated. Again, I think what matters is the sphere and power of the components, not the specific components themselves. But you will have to play around to figure out the recipes. For example, how do you brew the strength spell? A good starting point is to figure out what sphere the spell is in (strength is alteration), and then get some components from that sphere, and try to brew the spell. I periodically go through phases of trying to figure out recipes for lots of spells (my favorite so far is acid mist), but to be honest brew and scribe is not a part of the game that I think is done super well. I scribe black rune scrolls so my DK/cleric can use them for specific fights, but not much else.

Yrch

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2014, 10:53:32 AM »
Thanks Neyman.

1. What did you mean by Int affecting dmg indirectly?   I know dex reduces disrupted, so ive been adding dex items whenever possible. 

2.  Wearing magi set 4/4 i have the autofly autoinvis, but my score sheet shows castinglevel the same  as my char level.  Maybe the magi set doesnt actually give +cast level?

3. I never bothered with brew/scribe when i played years ago, and i dont really bother with it now.  Its something i may develop if/when i start min/maxing.   For now, I'm just trying to figure out spellcraft, and not sure where to begin.
A.  It says i need a spell component pouch equipped in my pouch slot.  I did a BRO POUCH at  the component vendor and the pouch didnt have an equip slot, so ididnt buy it.  Do i need that specific pouch from the component vendor, and is it equippable?
B. How do i know which components i need for which spell?  Are there  different components for scribe/brew and for spellcraft?   Are there basic spellcraft components that can be bought in large supply, like for magic missile, or are the spellcraft components limited to those you find from killing magic npcs?

Brafu

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2014, 10:57:09 AM »
INT:

As a mage you'll want 28 int (the max you can have). Why? High int makes learning spells/skills easier, and it also seriously helps with your mem time. It lets you mem more spells in a shorter amount of time, and that's important regardless of if you are soloing or in a group. The quicker you can remem your spells the quicker you can get back into the fight.

Spellcraft:

Neyman covered this fairly well, so I'll only add a little bit.

The skill most spells you cast to be boosted through the use of components. You can see what effect spellcraft can have on any given spell by checking out that spells help file (it'll be at the bottom, if there's any effect from the skill). You'll need to actually skill the spell before it really becomes useful though (simply loading up on low comps for spells you use a lot will do that).

Also, unless you have actually turned the skill off you will have already been using it if you have any comps. It's used automatically whenever you cast a spell and you have a component of that spell's sphere in your comp pouch.

Brew/Scribe:

Very useful skills, regardless of what neyman thinks =)

These skills work pretty much like spellcraft in regards to how both use components. If you want to brew some strength potions you'll need the right components in your comp pouch and an empty potion bottle (can be had from shops around the game). Higher level spells require more components, and of varying levels of strength (such as 1 low/mid/high or a combination of such).

Unless someone wants to hand you over a bunch of info, you'll need to just figure it out by trial and error in regards to what each spell requires. But, generally speaking, circle 1-3 spells take only a couple of low comps that you should very easily be able to purchase from the comp shops around the mud.

Brafu

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2014, 11:04:56 AM »
"2.  Wearing magi set 4/4 i have the autofly autoinvis, but my score sheet shows castinglevel the same  as my char level.  Maybe the magi set doesnt actually give +cast level?"

Your casting level can never be higher than your char level.

"A.  It says i need a spell component pouch equipped in my pouch slot.  I did a BRO POUCH at  the component vendor and the pouch didnt have an equip slot, so ididnt buy it.  Do i need that specific pouch from the component vendor, and is it equippable?"

Comp pouches have their own unique slot. That was the right pouch in the shop. And only components can be stored in those pouches.

"B. How do i know which components i need for which spell?  Are there  different components for scribe/brew and for spellcraft?   Are there basic spellcraft components that can be bought in large supply, like for magic missile, or are the spellcraft components limited to those you find from killing magic npcs?"

In each spells help file it lists what "sphere" they fall under. Such as teleport is "alteration", thus you need alteration comps for spellcraft/scribe to be used with said spell. I believe you can type "spells alteration", for instance, to get a list of all the spells you have memories that are of a certain sphere.

In each major town (and in some hidden locations throughout the game) there are comp shops that sell basic components. Not all shops sell the exact same comp list, so shopping around would be a good idea.

Also, all three skills use the same components, as do all classes capable of utilizing components.

Yrch

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2014, 11:57:45 AM »
Wonderful info,  brafu.  I appreciate it.  Definitely not looking for any lists, I'll experiment with shop comps to get me started and work my way up from there with rare/drop comps.

In regard to cast level, why would the ur casting level ever be lower than your character level?  What is the purpose of +castlevel if it cant raise above ypur char level?

Brafu

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2014, 12:30:56 PM »
Casting level is a way to 1) combat trash mages that, before, required no eq to have full spell power (thus making pk pretty much riskless to a naked mage) and 2) to require mages to eq back up after a death (and loss of eq) if they want to have full spell power again, just like most other classes do (such as a warrior needing at least a weapon and shield to even be semi-useful).

You can only have a casting level equal, at its highest, to your current level. That is how powerful your char can be, else you would see lvl 20 mages with spell power equal to a lvl 30. Without CL eq (and high int, since int effects CL as well), a lvl 30 mage will typically have the spell power of a lvl 19ish mage, and that means all of their spells are cast at lvl 19, instead of lvl 30.

If you think of it more in terms of a barbarian seeking out the most powerful weapon he can find, and then equating that to a mage seeking out the most CL he can find, then you might be able to get the picture better. Instead of seeking out the most powerful weapon, a mage seeks out eq (that's very plentiful and not hard to get) that allows him to hit as hard as he can, just like any tank might.

One big reason CL is a pretty nice idea, IMO, is just because of how potentially powerful mages can be. A legendary red robe can pretty easily do 400+ damage in one round, so you can imagine why there might be some need to require such a character to at least need some basic eq to reach that potential.

Yrch

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2014, 12:36:48 PM »
That makes a surprising amount of sense.  I certainly remember having to trash my mage/druid after too many deaths,  then using them to naked PK.  Looking back,  I'll agree it was a lame side effect of how the system was designed at that time, and i can appreciate the value of caster level.  Similar to WOW/D3 systems for basing spell damage on weapons.

Brafu

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2014, 12:44:44 PM »
At first I hated casting level, and one huge part of that was a lack of CL eq, not to mention CL eq that wasn't super easy to frag. But they slowly added more eq and/or beefed up current eq that they had added CL to, and I slowly accepted the changed.

Some still hate it, but I figure it's probably those who use to use naked mages to go around trashing it up heh

Jorquin

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2014, 01:06:51 PM »
in reality casting level doesn't hinder people who want to use mages for trashy purposes, though i think that was its original purpose.

Myte

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2014, 04:58:19 PM »
I don't believe I saw this answered so, +int should affect the save roll your opponents make when you cast a spell against them. If they fail the save it could be full damage, if they make the save they will take half damage, or so on. Something like that. There is now a rank purchasable for this same affect which is spell_saves_mod +1 or whatever it's called, 4 rp thing.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 05:00:28 PM by Myte »

Brafu

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2014, 05:54:07 PM »
@Jorquin

I disagree. A mage has to re-eq before he can do much of anything, especially in regards to pk. Any good mage will have spares in his/her vault or on an alt, but they still need to do more than just remem and go at it. You don't have a fully spelled mage trash poofing, dying, then only needing to re-mem before doing it again. Also, at some point they will need to go reload said eq if they keep trashing it up enough in a short period of time.

Nothing will really stop someone from using a highly spelled mage in a trash manner (nor any other char for that matter), but certain game elements can make the process annoying, or even painful.

Yrch

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2014, 05:43:00 AM »
Thank you, Myte!  Does the spell_saves_mod only help if youre below max 28 int, or is it most effective to max int and combine with the rank effect?

Jorquin

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2014, 07:21:10 AM »
Nothing will really stop someone from using a highly spelled mage in a trash manner (nor any other char for that matter)

hoss might have a different opinion on that one

Neyman

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Re: Spell damage mechanics
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2014, 08:56:59 AM »
Thank you, Myte!  Does the spell_saves_mod only help if youre below max 28 int, or is it most effective to max int and combine with the rank effect?

I think you are starting to ask some rather subtle game mechanics that are best left for your own exploration or private messages rather than answered on this open forum. For me at least, part of the fun of this game is that exact formulas and mechanics are not publicly known, and instead have to be discovered with experimentation. I still periodically see conversations on the MUD about what affects bash damage for example, and that is kind of awesome.