STH/RISE, Remington and Hoss: A mess

[Aristox]

If you want more details, go read other threads. This will be to the point.

Everybody screwed up. Here is how.

Remington:
He was in a room that he shouldn't have been in (GOD Clan stronghold).  He knew he shouldn't be there.  He should have been reporting the issue loudly and often.

STH/RISE:
They have screwed up often and repeatedly over years.  They get no benefit of the doubt.  They constantly play the martyr when anything goes against them.  They have cheated and been caught over and over.  They treat the immortals like crap at every turn.  In this case they started demanding things from Hoss to repay the loss of a kill on Remington.  When your history with someone is as terrible as STH/RISE's history is with the immortals, getting demanding is not going to go over well.  I am generalizing over the entire clan here but that is a bit unfair, there are a few good seeds in the clan.

Hoss:
First he transferred Remington to his room the moment he saw he killed Elsa in the GOD Clan stronghold.  This was a screw up because Remington was still fighting (and about to die to) Abom and Eker, so he should have peeked in the room beforehand. Mostly bad timing, but still a screw up.  Second he reduced Remington's punishment when STH/RISE got all demand-y.  He should have burned Remington bad and ignored STH/RISE because in this one case they happened to be the aggrieved party.  Telling them to shut the hell up would have been a good response.



The result is when I need to get involved no one walks away happy. So...

Remington gets deleted.
STH/RISE gets to stop complaining.
Hoss gets called out for messing up.

Can I go back to trying to make the game better now?

[Kuss]

Sounds good to me.

[octan]

What about some people who complained on forums and got pdeleted?

[octan]

All the players spend so much time on this game to work on their character(s) and having it just pdeleted because someone in power "feels" like it is... you draw your own conclusion.

I really hater randomers and pkillers and people who just login a few months, get backed up by a big clan and go around pkilling then say "I didn't contribute to the bad image of the clan."

I also do see the point why RISE/STH (I'm in their skype chat channel btw for any of you wondering) are really hated by a segment of arctic.

Funny though, I remember the good 'ole days during shriners and horde when they came around pkilling.  It makes me wonder if the whining was because they didn't have a forum to whine on or is it the younger generation just became/grew up in an environment of whining.  I see whiners who state their alts got pkilled over and over again (HELLO! your alt is in the opposing clan, DUH!) Or people who badmouth/insult people and when they get pked they whine and say "waaah! your bullies yada yada yada!" (huh? common decency? golden rule?-look it up) 

And then we come to RISE/STH, truthfully there really has to be some cheating involved in any game be in here or real life, but seeing every thing that goes wrong your way can't be all cheating!  So give the imms some slack and treat them with respect.  Like, when someone robs you in real life do you go to the police and say, "Hey bapt you policeman, your not doing your job!"

As with real life, a little respect and manners can go a long way in dealing with people, especially those in power.

[eddiex]

Justice served. Thank you aristox.

[Kir]

Remington:
1) So according to Hoss's original story, sanjuro's multi brought remington into the room.
2) Hoss transferred remington out of the room and saved him from pk.
What exactly did Remington do to deserve deletion? Seems like he's just a poor mortal being strung along by immortals.. is it because he didn't report that he was brought into the room by Sanjuro's multi? I am pretty sure he would have assumed Sanjuro is a lvl 35 and lead him there, that the staff was already aware of the bug.
STH\RISE

1) Aristox, you very frequently like to use the term "hyperbole" to describe player's forum comments, so it saddened me when you used hyberbole to describe STH\Rise "screwing up frequently and often over the years". We got in trouble one wipe for clan tagging WILD (which wasn't against the rules), and the only time we were ever mass deleted is because the clan decided to mass dt to protest Hoss's unfair deletion of Profion (also not against the rules). Several times, individual characters in RISE\SOB were deleted, like Tiger, Tim, and David were deleted for "botting" because they were training skills in the guild afk and didn't immediately respond to wizinvis tells (although nowhere in the help rules does it say you need to immediately respond to wizinvis tells, last time i checked, ignoring people wasn't illegal).
     And the "Rise versus the immortals" issue...Suffice it to say, the whole idea of us "being against the staff" is preposterous at best. We have immortals on arctic 33+ who zone with us, who are friends with us, etc. If we are presumed to be "asshats" because we question why we were deleted, then I think the definition of the term needs to be refined.

Hoss
     Absolute power corrupts, and as we have seen, Hoss's unchecked power in this game has turned it into a complete mess. Instead of unbiased immortal he enjoys playing kingmaker and interferes with clan vs clan warfare\zoning\politics on a daily basis. But suffice it to say, he is not always doing negative things, sometimes he even helps Rise\STH. Last saturday for example, we had 4-5 massrips at cyan and then when we killed it, nothing loaded and Hoss was kind enough to give us a prism book.. Yes thats right, the RISE\STH that is hated so much got a free prism book. So I guess we can't be that bad after all can we? My point is we were gladly accepting the book, but other clans would look at that as cheating, and unfortunately it is. I've said before I don't want to play in a game where immortals can constantly pzap\massrip\ delete people for no reason, nor give spells\equip to people for whatever reason. These are the real issues that need to be addressed, although I have a feeling this will not go anywhere but get more people deleted.

Thanks for reading.

[Hoss]

@Kir I assumed he got there from Sanjuro's mortal character, after looking into it later that night it was obviously not the case. Sanjuro had nothing to do with the incident, it was a flaw in the stronghold code. Remington was deleted for knowing of a bug and not reporting it, which is abusing game mechanics.

It is kismet that you mention Cotillian's prismatic spray book, because I was mid typing that into this thread when your response was sent. I watched the long battle with Cyan and felt bad for the amount of effort the group put into such a difficult fight with no reward. I loaded the book and gave it to Xinnix, I have in all transparency removed the spell from Cotillian's repertoire and agree that I never should have handed it out in the first place.

I am going to try to remove myself from the poo-slinging contest we have going here but I did want to state that the treatment of RISE has been an overgeneralization to an extent. We know there are some good grapes in the bunch and that it has been the sour few that have led us to toss the whole lot out. You seem to want to villainize me, and that is fine as I have been over zealous in some of my dealing with some of the respectable members of your clan. We will still continue to guide and shape the game at large into a better state for all players. If that means we need to pull the weeds out every once in a while we will do that, or goal remains the same.

[Nary]

I'm satisfied. Adam come join us!

[remi]

RISE-

As I stated in a previous post and will again---even though redundant---to get my point across.

Quite a few of you RISE members have this aura of entitlement about you.  You quite often state things like "(not against the rules)" and "(again not against the rules)".  It is this sort of mentality that gets you in trouble.  There are a myriad of things in this world (real), and in the game that are "not against the rules" but are still shady.  When you continuously push these shady limits over and over and over so the admin has to take time out of their days to govern your actions....you become labeled as nuisances or troublemakers.  It is not just in the game as the same shit happens in the real world. 

Your types are always playing the victim when the same rules you are bending or testing were set up because of people like you.  You think there is some conspiracy against you.  It's not.  It is simple.  People who are honest and respectful are quite often given the benefit of the doubt, shown leniency, because the action was an outlier to normal behavior.  Your actions are chronic.

The simple fact you don't understand this and need this explained to you like you are a 5 year old child is simply a reflection on the type of children (or maybe adults now) your parents have raised and the lack of value and integrity they forgot to teach you.

This of course does not apply to all of RISE but seems to be quite a few of your core members.

[Bryton]

@remi  huh?

[remi]

@Bryton ---Rises reponse to the Remington/Hoss issue.

They were outraged at the punishment---even though the punishment was a week in the abyss where he was going to deadbeat all the equipment he had and all the equipment he had acquired.

More than adequate as a punishment since he had no prior issues, unlike RISE.  I don't know what  Hoss' thoughts were when he was about to set the punishment.....but I can imagine the decisions on what punishments to give out was dictated by a bunch of entitled screaming children barking orders at what he "HAD" to do (instead of maybe calming explaining the situation and then asking politely for retribution).  I personally wouldn't respond to insignificant people ordering me around.

Remember you are playing a game that they run and maintain on their dime-- using their free time.

Again, having to explain my post, leads me to believe you are one of those "entitled" twits.

Sigh at you....

[remi]

and it is "not against the rules" to use a teleport to a character in the game.

Was it shady to use a target that was in a safe god hall? Yes.

The punishments towards RISE I'm sure got harsher and harsher as the infractions built up-----whereas this was Remington's first offense.

So that is what my original message referred to.

[Jorquin]

this is turning into the bold and the beautiful pretty quickly

[Bryton]

@remi  you lost me at aura of entitlement

[reed23]

Remi - How do you know that it was his first offense?  Are offenses published somewhere?  And is there a guide to rule breaking that you know about that i don't?  1st offense = slap on the wrist, 2nd offense = bend over, if you are Rise = guillotine?  This is what Rise bitches about the most.  We swallow a lot of BS and deal with the punishments for minor rule infractions.  Most of the time we accept it because we know we have huge targets on our backs.  But it kind of pisses us off when we see multiple enemy mages bot skilling for hours in the guild, or other characters breaking the same rules that some of us break and get deleted for, yet a lot of the time, hardly any punishment comes to them.

How many HOWC or OTLW were deleted this wipe?  To my knowledge 1.  I am guessing 20+ rise have been deleted this wipe.  And unless I am mistaken, OTLW and HOWC have broken the same types of rules that RISE have broken.  The funny thing too is people make it sounds like we are the only clan that have broken the rules on multiple occasions.  How long do you think OTLW has botted for?  How many wipes have WILDS/HOWC been accused of game mechanics rules infractions?  This is not the first wipe, I will guarantee that.  Our problem is we publically call people dick suckers and faggots which probably doesn't go over to well.

Not to mention that we start of wipes playing 100% legit with 0 bots and 0 character sharing.  The first 2 months of the last 3 wipes we have not had 1 bot in the clan.  I cannot make that claim in late wipes as people start dropping off and the necessity of botting goes up.  The 5 man new system will help that out for sure.