STH/RISE, Remington and Hoss: A mess

[Hoss]

Was going to lock this, but instead just going to ignore it. Keep the discussion civil please, or take it to the Clan Bitching area.

[remi]

@reed

A few good points Reed. 

I will say I do not definitively know whether it was his first offense or not.  I think it was simply a cumulative sort of process.  One rise offense here, one rise offense there, and next thing you know your entire clan gets singled out and punished, in some cases, overly excessive....sort of how I would see members of the same gang all getting the harshest punishment even if that particular gang member never had an offense.  (ie...guilt by association).  No tolerance type rule.  Is it fair.  No not always and there is no "set" guide for 1st offence, 2nd offense, etc...personally I think pdeletion is very harsh considering how much time is put into these characters and some lenience should be afforded unless a repeat offender.  But I am not part of the staff; it is not my game or my rules.  So I do my best to play by them.

I believe, as you mentioned in the second part of your message....when you are calling the people who run the game names and spewing profanity it makes it real easy for them to make an example of you.

I know I make reference to real life a lot and this is a game but it seems to fit well when describing my thoughts....if you get pulled over by a cop for speeding and say "just give me my bapting ticket pig" you are definitely getting a ticket, maybe worse.  I know you can't always be polite when emotions are running wild and you are feeling mistreated but I guarantee a nice attitude gives you a much much greater chance to not get a ticket from that cop over the earlier mentioned statement. 

[Jang Yoo Sung]

@remi and to whomever it may concern

you keep referring to the "real world" and try to apply it to the "arctic world"
well in the "real world" there is a known rule of double jeopardy whereby it is forbidden to try someone for the same charges
RISE/STH cheated last wipe(botting, nevertheless there were bots in other clans at the same time but i wont get into that) and got mass pzapped(even clan members who didnt bot)
i believe they got their punishment there so it should not affect them this wipe until they commit another offence
and as we could see from the news post of Dec 6th, 2013..

"As a final note, I urge all of you to play Arctic responsibly and respect your fellow
players and staff. The staff will no longer tolerate outbreaks of cheating or abuse
of game mechanics. This also goes for those few of you that play the game solely to
remove the fun from others. Consider this the only warning you will receive."

..the Gods were pretty pissed as well... however this wipe RISE/STH didn't cheat(as much) and didn't abuse game mechanics
in the beginning of the wipe many people in RISE got deleted for afk-skill training. i do not believe that the offence was grave enough the deserve deletion
now as there is no rule book or code of law that defines which offence leads to which punishment we have to refer to precedent
and never have i seen people being deleted for afk-skill training in the many years of playing in the arctic world
but if that's a new rule...ok fine(was that applied to everyone in the game? i'm not so sure)
even still RISE just soldiered on even though many hours were wasted and they lost their upperhand in the early wipe
if their mass pzap the previous wipe wasnt enough, i believe that getting their chars deleted for afk-skill training should have been enough(if not too drastic)

then profion gets deleted for killing unknowns during war(this is not "playing the game solely to remove the fun from others" as eq was returned to people that were mistakenly killed)
and then the rest of the clan got mass deleted for mass dting
i really think the Gods went overboard there because there seems to be no transparency and alot of discrimination when it comes to punishing RISE/STH
we live in a democracy and i think arctic should also reflect that world
if people commit an offence they should be punished fairly and transparently
Gods should not punish people too gravely depending on their past records even after THEY HAVE ALREADY RECEIVED THEIR PUNISHMENT IN THE PAST
please try to put yourselves in their shoes
they have played the game according to the rules this wipe and i do not believe they should be hated anymore
the idea of a WIPE is to start things over...and also...
please dont refer to people as sour grapes because people can change while sour grapes cannot

@Hoss
you should treat RISE/STH the as any other clan from now and put the past behind you

@RISE/STH
you should also put the past behind you and stop hating Hoss, he and the other immortals do put in alot to maintain and improve this game

i think the war between mortals(RISE/STH) and immortals should stop here
mortals cannot beat immortals therefore mortals shouldnt challenge immortals
at the same time immortals should feel the responsibility to help the game run as smoothly as possible, and deleting people and preventing people from playing is not the option

i really wish this whole thing would stop...

p.s. sorry for all the rambling i dont usually post shit here

[Kir]

Remi - How do you know that it was his first offense?  Are offenses published somewhere?  And is there a guide to rule breaking that you know about that i don't?  1st offense = slap on the wrist, 2nd offense = bend over, if you are Rise = guillotine?  This is what Rise bitches about the most.  We swallow a lot of BS and deal with the punishments for minor rule infractions.  Most of the time we accept it because we know we have huge targets on our backs.  But it kind of pisses us off when we see multiple enemy mages bot skilling for hours in the guild, or other characters breaking the same rules that some of us break and get deleted for, yet a lot of the time, hardly any punishment comes to them.

How many HOWC or OTLW were deleted this wipe?  To my knowledge 1.  I am guessing 20+ rise have been deleted this wipe.  And unless I am mistaken, OTLW and HOWC have broken the same types of rules that RISE have broken.  The funny thing too is people make it sounds like we are the only clan that have broken the rules on multiple occasions.  How long do you think OTLW has botted for?  How many wipes have WILDS/HOWC been accused of game mechanics rules infractions?  This is not the first wipe, I will guarantee that.  Our problem is we publically call people dick suckers and faggots which probably doesn't go over to well.

Not to mention that we start of wipes playing 100% legit with 0 bots and 0 character sharing.  The first 2 months of the last 3 wipes we have not had 1 bot in the clan.  I cannot make that claim in late wipes as people start dropping off and the necessity of botting goes up.  The 5 man new system will help that out for sure.

Sorry reed but I disagree... we have never been caught with 50d50 weapons, 10d10 weapons, caught using bugged stronghold glitches that link to high end fights, transferred out pk, using the notes on creation boards to bypass exploration of zones, etc etc. We are not in the same league as wild\howc cheating and never will be.

Outlaw cheating is comparable, but they hit the ground running with bots as soon as the wipe starts and we never do.

So ya, in my mind we don't cheat nearly as bad as the other top clans but somehow we're made out to be the scapegoats. I personally don't cheat bot at all, but then again, we do make it easy for the staff to police us because we don't have people like daniel\ilya running constant propaganda campaigns and to constantly kiss Hoss's ass to cover for aforementioned cheating.

And as for Hoss, I say this with the most sincere compassion and sadness... Aristox bringing you back to to immortal status a few years ago was probably the worst thing for you. You have now spent 15 hours a day of the last however many years involving yourself into mortal affairs and now you're a 40 something with a dead end job, no girlfriend, wife, or kids and nothing else to live for. I feel bad for you man and I hope deleting more players can bring you some joy in your life if that is all indeed you have left. You know how I know these intimate details of your life? because the other immortals laugh at you behind your back and whenever you complain about how lonely you are irl it gets pasted to every irc\skype channel in mud with a tirade of laughter to follow. Good luck and god bless and I hope you find something real in your life, and if not I hope your sandbox stays full of morons for you to toy with, but I fortunately will no longer be one of them.

Hopefully now I will have burned enough bridges so that nobody asks me to play this bapting game again, and I am surely welcoming a forum\siteban. Thanks to all the players who made this game worth playing, don't listen to the garbage about immortals who run this game, this game was running fine without them 15-20 years ago and even a retarded monkey would have fixed clair in the 4 years its been broken.

Peace

[Hoss]

I might as well slit my wrists, stay classy there buddy.

[btown]

Good riddance.

BTW,  did Hoss just take a selfie?

[fran]

Good riddance.

BTW,  did Hoss just take a selfie?

  No, just showing his Italian roots.

[Jorquin]

he'll be back, mark my words

[Anthony]

The real difference between these two groups of people in question, RISE and WILD, is discretion.

• Both groups know how to load all the shiny objects but one group consistently decides to blast around text files to each other with all of the keywords, loads, full walk-throughs, etc. and then they wonder why not only do zone keywords get messed with, they wonder why certain staff members have less respect for them.
• Both groups know a lot about game mechanics and sometimes encounter behavior or situations that might not be completely intended. One group sends a polite message up the chain and keeps the specifics secret, usually not even telling other clan members, the other group immediately broadcasts the existence of the glitch to everyone they know, and then depending on the nature of the bug, either exploits it all to hell for their own benefit or waits until they can stage a huge PK situation with the bug, and then broadcasts it on Suf's for everyone to see.
• Both groups wage war against unknowns, suspected multis, etc. but only one group feels the need to not only post the glorious details of every arbitrary skirmish but even the tiny non-consequential hits.
• One group essentially minds its own business, usually not even active in the shout channel while another group's members login and harass players through the same channel, threatening pkills because they are bored, if you don't trade them items, because you looked at them once with another character they suspect was yours, etc.

And for Jack to post critique on anyone else's life and its relation to the amount of time they spend in Arctic or anything else is laughable at best.

[btown]

Yea I would have to agree.  One thing I have noticed is people who learn on their own wont be so likely to share.  Its the people who have been told everything that doesn't care.  And when you throw a bunch of elite game knowledge in the wrong hands you get a clan like RISE.  Bunch of random pkillers "not that theres anything wrong with that"  with a bunch of knowledge they don't even deserve.

[xellos]

Anthony - All I would like to know is, Mr. Discretion, when HOWC camped out FAME's stronghold to exploit the "go straight to Morathian or HCT tower room glitch" did you politely message up the chain before or after you loaded 5-6 shards? Or was it when FAME logged on and noticed what the hell was going on and then Sanjuro came flying in to "fix" it.  I mean i think a big portion of arctic would have loved to bypass the hassle of getting to the mob and load up their stash vault.

Brandon - If you dont get why we kill you, you never will.  You are greedy, selfish, a forum hero and treat members of you're own clan like crap.  We dont keep you from playing arctic, if Locki can get peace for the 13th time in 2 wipes and then tank for us, surely something can be done for you.

Someone has to be the villain in any game you play, and RISE is notorious so Im ok with that, Ive been a villain my whole life.

[Anthony]

I demand to know how you can so inconsistently use apostrophes. That sort of injustice demands an answer.

[btown]

Anthony made a good post and I followed up with more accuracy. 

You self admitted to me before I deleted you off all my accounts that Jack gave you all the zone logs with keywords.  That's all I am saying.  Also I was referring to the likely-hood that Jack was also spoon fed everything for him to so easily hand it out to everybody and their brother.

Back in the day this type of stuff was frowned up.

That's all man, 

Yours Truly'  The first person to ever give you a Cyan book

Brandon

[xellos]

Jack showed Reed how to do Cyan, Reed shows you Brandon, so by that line of logic you are a forum hero and frowned upon player?
First Cyan book yes, first prism book no.  But then again you probably never even got past the gates of sanction when prism could load there, so how would you know?
Stop spamming this thread with the need to defend yourself. And no I wont give you a that expertly detailed Mithas and Hydra quest walk through that Jack wrote out for me so stop spamming me about it.  Im trying to get Hoss to give me an immortal and giving you that info would be frowned upon.

[SArT]

nah once your an immortal its ok.  Ask Sanjuro and Dan the man jokequin