No place for casual neutrals

[gaar]

These posts are really hard to make without coming off as a whiney bitch, so just take what I have to say with a grain of salt.

I played Arctic pretty seriously from 96-02. I solo'd mostly for the first two years, trying to figure out how to play the game. Eventually, I figured out most of the solo content and wanted to try zones like Soth, etc, because I really enjoyed the DL lore. Of course, staying neutral in this game is almost impossible, and I eventually had to clan as I had been red highlighted and killed quite a few times for zoning with the "wrong clan". I had a lot of fun zoning with the clan I joined, as we mostly spent our time trying to figure out keywords, talking shit (sex stories, etc), and generally just having a good time. We also engaged in some pretty sweet mass PvP battles, which were by far some of the most fun I had playing back then.

Over the past 10 years, I've only gotten to play about a month. I did get to check out the new robe quests and the pally class changes  (which are both bapting awesome IMO).

About 2 months ago, I had to move and dug up a bunch of old Arctic notes in the process. It really gave me the bug to try and play again. I started reading the news and saw a bunch of pretty sweet changes Aristox has been making that really got me excited to play. When the new wipe hit, it took me a little bit to get my bearings, but I found my stride and started soloing some of the new content that I could. I did enjoy it, but really wanted to try some of the more difficult new zones.

The new Soth Zone was high on my list, and was exciting exploring and finding (sometimes the hard way) the dts solo. I did quickly find I needed a group to explore the zone though, as it no longer seems solo-explorable.

However, within a week I got turned off by two things which really haven't changed in the 10 years I've been gone.

1) People who know everything, about every zone, and just drag you through as a bot.
2) Getting gang raped by <Clan B> for zoning with <Clan A> without warning, and then being told you can't play or you will be permanently hunted.

To be honest, these really sucked the will to play out of me. By the time I finish work, gym, and family time, I'm lucky to get an hour to myself for gaming. Yes, back in the day, I would have had a great time nerding out, joining a clan again, spamming zones and hunting people down...

But now.. I don't know, something has changed in the last 10 years... Maybe I'm just old and boring now, I don't know. I just don't have the energy to deal with nerd-bullies anymore. I don't want to be a bash-bot and dragged through zones. I don't want to be spamming zones for ranks, spamming the who list, on constant alert for player enemies. After my day, I just want to sit at my computer, relax, drink a beer, explore zones slowly, figure out keywords, etc.

But to be honest, trying to be a casual neutral hasn't changed in 10 years. You just can't do it, because two things are guaranteed.

1) You will not be able to lead, and will be dragged through zones.
2) You will be red highlighted and hunted for even trying to zone.

Back in the day, I had the time to play the game as a hardcore player. I don't now. And honestly, I don't really know a fix. I mean, at this point, I'd be willing to buy the game, make my own 6 man party, and play it as a Bauldur's Gate type single player experience just so I could actually "play" the game.

So anyways, I really wanted to try the legend quests as well. I was pretty close with my warrior, rank 17 or 18 I think. But I had to delete as I just don't have the will to continue.

This isn't something I'd expect to see happen anytime soon, and maybe it's something that just can't be changed ever for the good of the game. But, if you do figure out something in the future, I'd be totally game to play again.

Anyways, best of luck! Arctic will always hold a special place in my gaming heart.

[Bro]

It is possible to stay neutral and out of things if you are willing to pay attention to the clan dynamic. I'm sorry you are having trouble with this, but it is definitely possible to play this game and be left alone for the most part. This is part of the game as well and requires that you put in effort to make it happen. You can't expect the gaming experience to be 100% tailored to you because you feel entitled to group with any group that will have you, those other clans be damned! I wish the clan pk culture was not as aggressive in these aspects, but the game has changed a lot over the years. If you want to stay neutral, don't group the top clans that are competing with the other top clans. If you group with a top clan, then you are restricting yourself to the playtime when they will be most active.

[Anthony]

In this new era of players policing players, I think OP should post the real names of <Clan A> and <Clan B> so that the players may chastise them!

[xellos]

Maza, STH, KoS, FAME, and now even Myth zone freely.  Those are the groups you should get in.

[Ezio]

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

[Gnua]

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Once you do that, you aren't a casual neutral

[Davy]

I am a casual neutral. I play quite a bit on either Davy, Franky or Emrys. You can be clanless however eq, spells ect are harder to come by. The reason I play all neutral alignments and have the Krynn god Shinare in my titles is to be true to the neutral spirit. It would be neat to get rid of clan tags but keep clans for a wipe, I think it would lessen the clickishness of the mud and increase wizard eyes at strongholds. Anyways I wonder if ill ever clan again. Sometimes I think about it but for the most part I don't miss being clanned.

So mud bullies kind of make me chuckle. In my life I see people who have been shot bang bang and are dying or dead several times a month. Most are poor, uneducated and young ie gangster gangster. I have noticed when you feel stuck in the ghetto the value of life is shit. Might as well live the fast, dog eat dog life because hell there's nothing else shiny in the near future. The thing is I see a lot of similarities with PK randoming and thug life stupidity. I'm a looser stuck in a shity life might as well flap my dick in the wind and feel like someone. It's all about little man, big truck syndrom. Here though the fun of the game and ego is lost and no ones going to do a retaliation drive by with bullets so you can be big man bullie in a safe environment. Last retaliation drive by I delt with 3 kids all under 10 got shot. Thank goodness they all were relatively minor injurys.

So if you wonder why I avoid clans and PK it is because I play to have fun. Fun is not being involved in arctic as a thug want to be. I have real life to trouble my sleep with all that.

[gaar]

Wow, I really appreciate all the responses. It seems I just may have hit the short end of the stick.

I was just thinking, a game command or a sticky on one of the forums with a list of clans and their status would be incredibly helpful for people like myself who really aren't "in-the-know" in terms of clan politics. I would not have zoned with a warring clan had I known.

For example, an up to date list with something as simple as:
<Clan A> - Casual, Inexperienced, PvE oriented
<Clan B> - Hardcore, Experienced, PvE oriented
<Clan C> - Hardcore, Experienced, PvP oriented, At War with <Clan D>
etc...

I really think this would help returning/new players find other players with similar goals, whether it be hardcore or casual.

I know the Arctic mentality is typically "figure it out for yourself", but for me, a LFG shout turned into running two zones with the "wrong" clan and getting thrown into the permanent hunt/kill list (no warning). A rough way to learn due to my limited play time, and something I would not want to do again.

[dodok]

Best of luck to you Gaar.  I'm a world merchant-whore-casual-neutral with way less experience than you (just hit 22 and haven't had a guy hit 25 since maybe 1998..haha) and I've been having a blast on and off since last wipe.  The randoming sucks but it happens way less often than I remember with the "self policing" going around.  Frankly (and possibly the reason for less pk) is that there is so much gear out there now that I don't have anything even remotely worthwhile compared to what you highbies can just pop on your own...  That said I've found the mud as a whole to be really helpful and generally I'm left alone (still haven't figured out who tries to summon me sometimes)..

Davy, I don't really agree with you about the "mud bully" thing.  Some people just have a different definition of "fun."  For me it is to pop some item after having snuck through the whole zone with the threat of no CR.  For some it is to lure ppl into DTs or to lay waiting in a room that damages people (I recall reading a log that did something like this last wipe), and for some it is to random.  I'm the lamest solo-pve care bear so it's a bit strange I get addicted to arctic, but I'm with Gaar in saying that if I could buy this game and play it on my own, I'd probably do it!

[Oligo]

It would be neat to get rid of clan tags but keep clans for a wipe, I think it would lessen the clickishness of the mud and increase wizard eyes at strongholds.

I support this idea of getting rid of clan tags but keeping the clan/SH system.
I agree that that clan tags make the game cliquish, which is only exacerbated by the low player base numbers.

[sart]

It would be neat to get rid of clan tags but keep clans for a wipe, I think it would lessen the clickishness of the mud and increase wizard eyes at strongholds.

I support this idea of getting rid of clan tags but keeping the clan/SH system.
I agree that that clan tags make the game cliquish, which is only exacerbated by the low player base numbers.

But we can all agree that you sir, are an idiot.

[Bunsen]

It would be neat to get rid of clan tags but keep clans for a wipe, I think it would lessen the clickishness of the mud and increase wizard eyes at strongholds.

I support this idea of getting rid of clan tags but keeping the clan/SH system.
I agree that that clan tags make the game cliquish, which is only exacerbated by the low player base numbers.

Remove the tags and there would still be cliques. Without tags, I would suggest that random killings would be on the rise (no pun intended) while untagged-clans play the guessing game of who is in with which crew with a shoot-first-ask-later approach. Neutrals would be the biggest losers here.

[durrrr]

I'm a casual neutral (mainly play as oberyn) and have been having a blast so far this wipe.  I played a little in 99 (killing pigeons and burning corn on telnet) and more in 01 (titled characters, started learning high zones) but I ended up quitting due to friends getting out of the game and not having the heart to play it solo.  The biggest things I noticed since coming back and have kept me playing:

1) The playerbase has (for the most part) matured and is willing to help if you ask.
2) The new content is awesome
3) Class changes and xp table have made the game 100x easier to solo.
4) Characters feel overpowered, which is great for soloing/learning new zones

The one thing that I don't like about the game is that I quit before learning the high zones and have a hard time figuring them out without sounding like a big fat noob.  Years ago it was possible to get a group of friends\neuts and learn a zone.  Now everyone has done the zone 1000x and you have ask a bunch of questions to learn anything.  Oligo please bring back the lore bot!

[wha?]

the game itself is as good or better than its ever been.  i love the xp tables this wipe, all the class quests, warrior changes, V regen changes its just all great.

but this game will never be for casual players.  the limited gear, the unsolvable keywords, and especially the pkilling. 

when you play this game you can be ambush pkilled at any time with absurd ease.  and when it happens you lose everything youve spent hours working for.  what casual player wants to deal with that?

[durrrr]

Right now I'm new enough to where I can be happy with hand me down gear and learning the solo content.  If my knowledge of the game got the point where I knew all the solo stuff and a decent amount of the high zones Id try to clan asap.  There is no way you can have decent gear as a casual and not expect to get ganked.  PvP is so easy in this game that it almost eliminates the geared casual player.   I just don't worry about pvp cause my gear is lol and I'd probably just give it to someone if they asked.