Author Topic: Skill Training  (Read 8660 times)

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corey

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Skill Training
« on: January 02, 2014, 10:20:13 PM »
"Currently thinking about ways to totally redo skill training, removing the randomness and annoyance. Anyone have a contribution? " - Aristox

Botting is a huge problem, especially when it comes to skills. Can you blame them? No, because it's bapting awful. Let's be completely honest - no one uses half their skills before working on them for legendary because they're useless.

Remove skill training entirely(minus weapons - these are fine).

Allow classes to learn generic skills while leveling and have to quest to learn others (in a Paladin's case, maybe rally, guard, righteous will(already quest), beseech are quested).

Gnua

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2014, 11:58:03 PM »
"Currently thinking about ways to totally redo skill training, removing the randomness and annoyance. Anyone have a contribution? " - Aristox

Botting is a huge problem, especially when it comes to skills. Can you blame them? No, because it's bapting awful. Let's be completely honest - no one uses half their skills before working on them for legendary because they're useless.

Remove skill training entirely(minus weapons - these are fine).

Allow classes to learn generic skills while leveling and have to quest to learn others (in a Paladin's case, maybe rally, guard, righteous will(already quest), beseech are quested).

right now getting enlightens can be very painful but finding guild masters is trivial. maybe it should be the other way around. maybe guild masters that can go past fair should be in zones where the difficulty reflects the skill level of the guild master. maybe the guildmasters arent always in the zone either - kinda like instinct mobs.

Gnua

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2014, 11:59:10 PM »
"Currently thinking about ways to totally redo skill training, removing the randomness and annoyance. Anyone have a contribution? " - Aristox

Botting is a huge problem, especially when it comes to skills. Can you blame them? No, because it's bapting awful. Let's be completely honest - no one uses half their skills before working on them for legendary because they're useless.

Remove skill training entirely(minus weapons - these are fine).

Allow classes to learn generic skills while leveling and have to quest to learn others (in a Paladin's case, maybe rally, guard, righteous will(already quest), beseech are quested).

right now getting enlightens can be very painful but finding guild masters is trivial. maybe it should be the other way around. maybe guild masters that can go past fair should be in zones where the difficulty reflects the skill level of the guild master. maybe the guildmasters arent always in the zone either - kinda like instinct mobs.

we could also have a vote to remove certain skills. the legends about conan had very little to do with his superb mending.

Dandalf

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2014, 05:44:08 AM »
If I feel enlightened or especially skillful, why do must I run back to a guildmaster for him to tell me what I already, myself, learned.  I really think anything past (good) should be guild learned and anything before that just train up.  I agree with Corey as well, no one uses half that dumb shit until its time to legend.

Zozen

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2014, 10:54:06 AM »
I think you have to look at each individual class. There are very specific skills that are 1) annoyingly long to train and 2) easy to bot skill train thus people do it. i.e.  mages and paladins. I like the idea of being able to do "quests" to increase the skill level of specific skills. These can be some of the core skills for individual classes...at least to a certain level (fair?) then its up to you to get it the rest of the way.


gulca

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2014, 11:19:16 AM »
Having special quests for each individual skills for each class. Not going to happen anytime soon, I don't think.

It is more practical to use current game mechanics like the rank point system to buy skill points.

Or just go to point per level system where you can distribute skill points. Additional skill points can be purchase with clan rank points and rank points.

Take skills out of legend requirement and toss in a few more legend mobs (like 10 mobs after rank 20) instead. That would be doable as far as work load is concern (I would think).

It is more fun trying to get a group/solo to kill mobs than sit in peace rooms skilling.

Hoss

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2014, 02:08:42 PM »
Why don't we just remove skills, I don't have bapting time for that.

The main issue you are currently seeing now is that we have reduced the time to level drastically without modifying the skill gain rate to match. Basically you don't have enough time in the level work any skills so you outlevel all of them and have to go back and drudge through them at the end. All we have done is move "when" you work on skills.

I very much so want skills to be something that you indeed need to spend some time investment to increase. This investment needs to be better paired with the other character investments players are making. If there are skills that are "useless" because Corey doesn't like them and he has to spend all his time training 'useless' skills that is his call.

snax

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Re: Skill Training maybe a simple idea
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2014, 03:19:57 PM »
How about turning +skill gear into +skill/+trainrate gear after player is logged in for a while...like 120 ticks?  so a +5 brew held would turn into +trainrate also with a good grind session.... or +kick boots would do the same....maybe even only 90.  that way a casual player who plays 2-3 days a week with 1 real session could benefit, and the people who already autobot transform into legends a week into wipe won't get too much added value

it capitalizes on the variety of gear already in game and might not be a huge annoyance to make a huge annoying code change by doing it as an unlisted flag on characters set on logon and reset at lost connection/death/logout

another notion for training would be to flag it against total playtime

it could also be done as a bellcurve against playtime with base at < 1 day, peak train bonuses at 2-4 days playtime and normal > 5 playtime

bellcurves like bowties are cool too.




corey

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2014, 07:45:12 PM »
Why don't we just remove skills, I don't have bapting time for that.

The main issue you are currently seeing now is that we have reduced the time to level drastically without modifying the skill gain rate to match. Basically you don't have enough time in the level work any skills so you outlevel all of them and have to go back and drudge through them at the end. All we have done is move "when" you work on skills.

I very much so want skills to be something that you indeed need to spend some time investment to increase. This investment needs to be better paired with the other character investments players are making. If there are skills that are "useless" because Corey doesn't like them and he has to spend all his time training 'useless' skills that is his call.

New idea:

All skills gain a % of next level up every use whether it works or doesn't work. The % of skill-to-next-level completion per use is heavily based off cooldown re-use.

Bunsen

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2014, 11:35:06 PM »
Personally, I like the skill system. I think the current system is the only thing stopping players from hitting legend too quickly or amassing several legend chars in the first few months of the wipe.. Sure ranks are a bit of a grind, but not too difficult and fairly easy to pass the time with a group.

There's also something very rewarding about seeing (superb) all over your screen at end-game.

I would like to see more of an effort made to stem bot-skilling though. Maybe removal of peace flags on skill roll failures (thereby increasing the risk of bot skilling) ? This would also give the playerbase an opportunity to police themselves a little more, though not sure how difficult this would be to implement. There could also be a roll-penalty that increments with longer periods of inaction (or over-use of a skill without movement etc.).

I'd love to throw out stabs to afk mages trigger-training brew/scribe.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 11:41:41 PM by didawakka »

Gnua

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2014, 12:06:32 AM »
I would like to see more of an effort made to stem bot-skilling though. Maybe removal of peace flags on skill roll failures (thereby increasing the risk of bot skilling) ?
I'd love to throw out stabs to afk mages trigger-training brew/scribe.

could also make the inns and/or peace rooms no-sit, no-learn. maybe make skills more like instincts or spells where you have to go kill a mob and get a chance to learn the skill a little. another possibility:

1. skills only train upon failure (making it hard to get superb if you are succeeding lots, would make -skill gear/mobs useful for training)
2. make skills auto-succeed in peace rooms so that they do not train (see #1)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2014, 12:15:31 AM by gnua »

Ezio

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2014, 12:01:26 PM »
What are we even discussing this for? Skills are fine, sorry if you can't figure your skill out.  Try different things.  Just because some skills can be "botted", which just means it is easily trained with a trigger....which is everything

All skills can be botted, there are no exceptions.  Is this a problem? What is the definition of a problem in this instance?  Doesn't seem to be, imo.  Some people get deleted, some don't (cough).

Shaman seance is something I always want activated if I can.  So yes, I have a trigger set to use it.  Am I abusing something here?

I think less attention needs to be payed to people triggering their skills, and more needs to be payed to actual multies and actual "bots"

Matt

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2014, 05:07:07 PM »
The problem is the skills that don't train with normal use. Mages conjure and hide, etc. If conjure trained by ordering the golem rather than absurdly releasing and resummoning it there wouldn't be an issue.

Again, if hide trained by using hide -> stab on every mob while leveling it also wouldn't rely on multiing or bots to train.

Gnua

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2014, 09:25:31 AM »
What are we even discussing this for? Skills are fine, sorry if you can't figure your skill out.  Try different things.  Just because some skills can be "botted", which just means it is easily trained with a trigger....which is everything

All skills can be botted, there are no exceptions.  Is this a problem? What is the definition of a problem in this instance?  Doesn't seem to be, imo.  Some people get deleted, some don't (cough).

Shaman seance is something I always want activated if I can.  So yes, I have a trigger set to use it.  Am I abusing something here?

I think less attention needs to be payed to people triggering their skills, and more needs to be payed to actual multies and actual "bots"

not all skills can be trained in peace rooms though

Joe

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Re: Skill Training
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2014, 12:26:42 PM »
The only thing I don't like about skills is the poor integration of their skill into leveling. This is core to many DIKU muds I experienced however and not limited to Arctic.