Balancing the pace of the game at low - high levels.

[gulca]

One main complain I have about the quests are incomplete quest items.

How many times does the creator want us to spam the zone to complete the quest? Imagine if you are new to the quest, and the needed clue/quest item didn't load. You can spend hours inside trying to figure out what the next step is. Is this fun?

The fun thing about mage tower tests is that you know they can be completed (a goal) and you know all the items are there. All you need is time to figure out. Can't say the same with a lot of the quests/keys in most zones outside the mage tests.

[Jorquin]

i resent that statement a bit reed, "know how to solve them in the fullest", i've had very little help throughout my years and solved the vast majority of what i know through face planting into death like theres no challenge - but i've managed to solve a significant portion of the game content.

last wipe i had in excess of 160 deaths from exploring, most of which were in one zone.
 i think the reality is that if you want to solve obscure stuff that gives you a minor advantage (and yes, the advantage is minor) then you have to put in the time to do it.

[Alecto]

First, I think you SHOULD have to lead a zone 20+ or 50+ times to start appreciating the nuances...that's why those layers are there in the first place!  At first you run Sirrion Caverns just for the trog xp, then you start noticing some weird stuff the 5th or 6th time.  Why won't that door open? What's up with the lizard?  Eventually you figure out some of the answers to those questions, but it just leads to more.  Eventually you are talking to ghosts and finding out there is a whole level to that zone you never would have guessed was there when all you wanted was a dart or a star, or maybe a cuirboilli byrnie.

That's what makes arctic great - that's why I play 20 years later.

[gulca]

Having to spam the same thing 20+ times to appreciate the game? Step back a minute and try to explain that to someone on the street.

The very thought of repetition (no guarantee of success) scares most of our players away. What would new players think?

Me: Here, this is an awesome game I log on every day. Make an account and join the fun.
Guy: Really? what do I need to do?
Me: Well, create level 1 character and start stomping spiders. Be careful though, they might bruise you to death. So get ready to flee when your hp goes low.
Guy: Sounds fun. What happens when the spider dies?
Me: Well, you have to kill at least 13 spiders to level up. Then you have more hp.
Guy: What do I kill after that? Can I kill dragons?
Me: Uhh, you'll need to kill spiders till you are level 3.
Guy: Really? Ok, sooooo, I need to kill 30+ spiders, then I can go hunt some badass dragon?
Me: My god, are you real? You are only level 3! Go kill goblins when you are done with spiders. Not any goblins though. Stay on the upper sewers.
Guy: Do I have to kill 1 goblin or 30 goblins?
Me: Nevermind. Go back to your FPS.

[reed23]

i disagree with you daniel.  the top tier zones that are very obscure and are very close to impossible to explore fully without immortal hints gives you a huge advantage in the game.  however, because legendary is so overpowered, it does bridge the gap slightly.

[sart]

I love to explore as well... but don't kid yourself and lie to others that you don't need steered a bit for some of it. 

Back in the day some things were created to be so obscure that only that creator and his allies would know it.  I could give you several examples of things you would never know existed if not shown by someone.

For an example, I explore with over half of my time, on legend thieves... I have taught myself tons, and know some things that even the great Daniel doesn't.   However, there are things like Emil that I still have never done... now it doesn't really matter to me since the set was wrecked, but still.. I have spent so many hours on that quest.... days... the damn staff is fast decay.  I have tried some of the most obscure things on that.. like Astinus' sphere... still never solved it.  There is nothing obvious.  Or my earlier example.. the emerald hilt.. show me 5 people that even know where that thing loads and I bet 4 out of 5 were shown by someone else. (and I still dont know what to do with that either).  The only people I know that know those quests were shown by someone else..  who was probably shown by their creator.

And you all know that half the really smart top 10% have files passed to them from someone.

So it comes down to this... Do you want people to gain knowledge from others on Arctic.. or from exploring?  Have NPC's give obscure hints when asked correctly.  I seriously think that Theros or some of the guild masters may have heard something about some items or things... or atleast Tanis.

[Alecto]

I know how to load the hilt, and you are right, someone showed me, and I STILL have no idea what to do with it...is there a blade somewhere that goes with it?

My one frustration with arctic is that there are a pretty good number of disabled quests (crytic owl, the gem that loads on galazor, etc.) which can be time consuming until someone finally tells you that quest isn't around anymore.  I guess I should be idea/bugging more, but its hard to make a comment when the quest might be fully functional and I might just be too stupid to figure it out...hell, both the examples I gave might actual be active, maybe I should wander around fyzian underground more and stare at those coffins...

[Jorquin]

i'm not "great", i'm just some guy who explores a lot. i really haven't had much help over the years and the majority of the help i have had came from players, not immortals. where those players got the information i can not say.

generally it pays to have friends, and i don't mean friends in high places. since my days in outlaws i maintain strong ties with the danes and also the americans who played in outlaw with me. of those who do still play, we are split into different playing groups now - which has its advantages. danecrew and myself have worked in tandem to solve zones, sharing pieces of information that the others missed on numerous occasions.

in lieu of this alleged "immortal advantage", we took strides to create our own advantage - cooperation between friends regardless of current circumstance.


to reed: maybe knowing zones others don't and getting the hidden shinies does provide an big advantage, i'd argue it's minor but i could understand both sides of the arguement. the statement that obscure zones can only be solved by immortal hints i refute, i've solved a lot of random quests/zones by trying absolutely every possible thing i can think of... and it usually ends up being the ones you try when you're bordering on giving up and think "this is such a ridiculously stupid idea it'll never work", and then it does.

[Vastra]

I just started playing recently, so I'm sure my input doesn't have much weight, but I like the difficulty of the quests. Figuring out the sacrifice portion of the the temple in Balifor, as well as how to get to velda, and that zone in general, was a lot of fun. However, the brog item exchange quest would have NEVER occurred to me without tips from another player.

My only suggestion would be to use the "HINT" function that is part of the conclave test to give a hint as to what quests are in the zone/how to start/end them.

[Terk]

Since people have pointed to me on a few occasions on this thread, I thought I'd reply quickly:

1) I actually don't like very difficult keywords that are not directly hinted. However, I think in saying when you move something in real life you will do a variety of verbs to it has very little relevance to Arctic. Arctic is not real life. It is a game. The parameters are clear for keywords: specificity of the action matters. Now yes I could make it so that when you do a poorly specified action like "fool around with" <object>it blows up in your face, but since what I want you to do is twist it, you will have to do that and just that to solve the puzzle. That's a fairly reasonable parameter given the entire world is constructed of text.

2) Since you need to know very few keywords to advance from low level to high level, I see no reason that old low/mid level content that has secrets now be opened for everyone to know. You deserve your knowledge in this game. That's truly what separates great and good players. Knowledge of the game is our primary point of stickiness with players. When you learn something, it is yours. You earn it. You keep it. And even when it wipes, you hold on to it.

3) I don't hate the hint idea from our very new player. It could be a nice middle ground, maybe we'd steal a million xp per hint.

FYI: my opinion is not necessarily inline with that of the staff.

[snax]

Bigby's Big Whiney Newbie Hint Spell:

 parameters:
Functions as room and object spec read [current room only]: penalty health -20 for 3 hours, can only reuse 1x / 24 hours playtime.  -1 level -2 rank.  No cast for 1 hour.

 duration: instantaneous
 guild for : red/white/black robe
Component casting:  Reduces Rank loss

Creates a magic mouth that echos specs in current room, and current room number.


Me likeys!

[Jarrad]

By hint, it should be cryptic not handing it to you... Your spell idea simply creates a trash char to gain info...

I remember listening to the wandering kenders stories and getting all excited about the story about the cat and thinking it was a clue to solve the diamond collar... If that was a clue, it didn't help me at all!

And then Emil's quest leading me to an oasis in a desert and then fizzle...

Traditionally the mystic combo would change each wipe, as would huma's but realistically, most people don't have the drive to refigure shit every wipe...

The truth is that most people "solve" stuff by asking those few who have solved it or designed it for either hints, or just a walk through...

And what keeps you playing the game once you have all these solutions?? There is a higher level of game knowledge in the playerbase than ever before, and a much diminished playerbase... Not a coincidence...

[snax]

not if it is a circle 9 spell and affects everyone in a clan! and the character must be clanned to do it...or with a group of a least 3 people to pull their life force and nerf them too

me adjust me still likey!

[Jorquin]

ppl will just level trash to get info

[Valenore]

That's truly what separates great and good players.

It is also what separates players who have 30 hours a week to play from players who have 3 hours a week to play.  Couple that with the fact that there are 10x as many people with 3 hours a week to play as there are those with 30 hours a week to play and you get 10 people playing at peak times.