Author Topic: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game  (Read 25509 times)

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fulloflife

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2013, 08:49:56 PM »
I applaud Keith for compiling some actual data- unlike the hand waving that seems to be going on all the time. This makes me go back to the bot debate which I have strong feelings about.

To recap: Immorts ask for opinion on bots, many opinions are given, and then immorts just say, thanks, we're not going to do anything with super vague reasons.

Go read Aristox's post where he finds it too inconvenient to post detailed reasons about why he isn't changing the bot policy because he thinks people will nit pick it. Seriously? You think not saying why is any better?

That's Arctic- a model of transparency





sart

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2013, 01:47:29 AM »
You know looking around the mud .. I can see quite a few I know are bots.. most know are bots.

I will continue to obey the rules.  But I know on wipe day, that others are leveling 2 or more characters in the time I am leveling one.  This is maddening.

I wont voice on botting directly here, but the advantage it gives to those that cheat is completely unacceptable.

Rhys

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2013, 06:04:02 AM »
You know looking around the mud .. I can see quite a few I know are bots.. most know are bots.

I will continue to obey the rules.  But I know on wipe day, that others are leveling 2 or more characters in the time I am leveling one.  This is maddening.

I wont voice on botting directly here, but the advantage it gives to those that cheat is completely unacceptable.

The above is the reason I will not come back.

Kir

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2013, 10:20:34 AM »
You know looking around the mud .. I can see quite a few I know are bots.. most know are bots.

I will continue to obey the rules.  But I know on wipe day, that others are leveling 2 or more characters in the time I am leveling one.  This is maddening.

I wont voice on botting directly here, but the advantage it gives to those that cheat is completely unacceptable.

The above is the reason I will not come back.

See, the prejudice anti-botters are already not playing because of perceived botting, we might as well open the game back up to people who very much enjoy arctic while playing more than 1 character at a time.

reed23

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2013, 10:51:45 AM »
If you enjoy arctic and are quitting because some people bot, boo hoo boo hoo!  Cheating goes on in every aspect of life, but I hope you havent given up on that...  Government, work, relationships, etc. etc. etc.  If you have a group of 3-4 friends on wipe day, botters will have 0 advantage over you.

btown

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2013, 11:22:58 AM »
You know I hate to admit it but Kir is right,  I actually went threw all of his post and read them with my right eye closed and it all made more sense.

I  strongly suggest creating immortal characters 34+ for all of SoB members.  I mean what could go wrong?

Keith

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2013, 06:33:21 PM »
You guys draw SoB into every single post.  This isn't about SoB.  This is not about Mumu, it is not about Essovius, and it is not even about Aemon.  If you are inned and die to 2 man tether/bashing teams, it isn't because of multiing/botting; it is because of overpowered tether/relo/bashing combination.  There's absolutely no reason to bring that up every single thred.  People will always be able (I hope) to come up with 2 people for PK.  We have "Don't be an asshole" policy in place to prevent this in the future as well.  Also, having overpowered mages with all-spells is an Arctic tradition:  see past logs of Kiaranlansalee, Loafie, Kiff, etc. killing full groups by themselves.  It isn't just this wipe where that has been an issue; Mumu and company just took it upon themselves to try to kill everyone rather than one group.

 There are people multiing/botting right now; that much is clear.  The question is whether you would prefer to have 2 characters or 1 be the baseline. If you are going to lose 7-2, you are going to lose 14-4 (although at least the 14 won't be able to area), so why does that matter?  If group size is still 10, and you can come up with 10 people to play, you won't need bots at all.  I agree it's really annoying that some people are multiing when I don't feel like I can because of the current rules.  My game experience would be better with multiing/botting; I and many others (based on the previous thread) would play more if we each were allowed 2 players per IP.  I would have a healer class to go with my tank; I would be able to level 2 characters at the same time (which is really nice when you are on a very limited time schedule).  I would be more flexible for groups when we go into 10 man zoning.  Yes, people will abuse it, but people are abusing it right now when the limit is 1.  It just gives the people who aren't abusing it more of a level playing field. The problem will be the same; imms will still have to catch those abusing the rules (anyone playing more than 2)  and abyss/delete/ban them.  It doesn't raise the ceiling; it just raises the floor. 

I came up with a less favorable to me, solution involving henchmen.  Do the anti-botters prefer that?  I would doubt that the imms would; I'm sure it would take a lot of coding to prevent their abuse.

I also had a list of other things I would hope to have changed.  What do you guys think of that?  #2 on my list is trying to decrease zone times.  It seems like creators nowadays are trying to outdo themselves making zones longer and longer.  People loved old Sleet, old HCT because they were quick and fun, while loading cool gear and spells.  A lot of people don't do Cyan anymore because it takes hours of prep to go against a mob that only gets harder and harder... 5 hours of wasted time to die and lose my set, while the Mrs. breathes down my neck waiting for me to rent?  Thanks but no thanks.  That mob used to be soloable, lol.  I don't mean to make it soloable, but it is getting ridiculous.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 06:42:33 PM by Keith »

Hoss

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2013, 07:11:19 PM »
I have been tracking this thread and didn't really want to post on it, because it degraded quickly into the typical poo-flinging and I don't have the time nor patience to sift through 100 lbs of shit for that one small nugget of gold. I have honestly been waiting for the thread to reach Godwin's law so that I could lock it.

I am more than happy to have discussion, debate and heated argument when it is productive, this isn't one of those threads.

The thread starts with several underhanded attacks on the staff, the players and everyone "else" that doesn't have the same ideology as a single vocal group of players. Some statistics are shown, grumbling went back and forth between some players and then we try to realign under the botting ideology as the only solution to world hunger. I am not giving Sally Struthers a single penny.

We looked at many things when we opened the discussion about multiplay/botting up, knowing that it was a Pandora's box. We appreciated the feedback that was given from many of you, and came to the conclusion at the end of the day that it was not a direction that we were willing to move in. What came next was expected, and very draining on us.

Instead of the community banding together to propel the game forward, we are now bombarded with diatribe after diatribe and it has only reinforced to me that Aristox and I made the right decision at this point for the game. I ask now that we agree to disagree on the matter and keep some civil dialogue going that will actually improve things. You have all heard me before say that I detest the "win at all costs, drive people from the game" mentality and it is the pro-bot camp that I see this attitude displayed the most.

There are many aspects of the game that the staff is currently working on to improve, but I would love to stop having my drive to move forward on those items drained from me every time I read one of these threads. We are moving in a forward direction without botting/multiplay, I would like you all to get on board and help the Arctic community improve but I am not going to continue along this path.

Hunger is no laughing matter.

Zozen

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2013, 09:30:47 PM »
Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

reed23

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2013, 11:13:16 PM »
Hoss - it would probably help everyone move forward if we were given some sort of bone to chew on regarding what your and aristox's alternative plan is to the booting discussion.  I am sure most people pro-botting think that we had this big discussion, it appears the majority was pro-botting, the staff shot it down, and then no new information has been given.  I don't understand the big secrecy of arctic.  Why not put some excitement in the air and say hey we are working on this...... and not give all the details.  Everyone feels forgotten after the big discussion.

Super Tacoman

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #55 on: August 31, 2013, 02:25:25 AM »
Instead of the community banding together to propel the game forward, we are now bombarded with diatribe after diatribe and it has only reinforced to me that Aristox and I made the right decision at this point for the game. I ask now that we agree to disagree on the matter and keep some civil dialogue going that will actually improve things. You have all heard me before say that I detest the "win at all costs, drive people from the game" mentality and it is the pro-bot camp that I see this attitude displayed the most.

There are many aspects of the game that the staff is currently working on to improve, but I would love to stop having my drive to move forward on those items drained from me every time I read one of these threads. We are moving in a forward direction without botting/multiplay, I would like you all to get on board and help the Arctic community improve but I am not going to continue along this path.

i am Sure if the decision was made to allow multis everyone would just shut up and fall in line.  there would be no further diatribes it would just be one community banding together to propel the game forward.  right?  and even if there were, well that would just prove that decision was the right one all along.  makes perfect sense to me. 

its good to see solid logic coming from the leaders of the game. 

oops!  i hope i didnt drain your drive to move foward hoss!  does people disagreeing with you make you sad?  :( 
did some people play mean in your game today and disagree with you?  :(  gonna go have a nice pout?  or maybe throw a tantrum? 

Kragg

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #56 on: August 31, 2013, 10:57:30 AM »
its good to see solid logic coming from the leaders of the game. 

oops!  i hope i didnt drain your drive to move foward hoss!  does people disagreeing with you make you sad?  :( 
did some people play mean in your game today and disagree with you?  :(  gonna go have a nice pout?  or maybe throw a tantrum? 
[/quote]

You know, I can put up with reading lots of shit on here but that is just too much.  When I started your post, I thought that first paragraph was pretty good sarcasm.  I can't believe you are serious. 

Hoss and Aristox put way too much VOLUNTEER time into trying to find a middle road in keeping this anachronism we all like to waste time on running.  They actually care way more about your irrelevant opinions than I would in their shoes.  My opinion is that even appearing to give a crap about what you think gives you a soapbox you don't have.

Arctic is a despotic sandbox.  They are the despots, you are not.  You leave your 'freedom/rights' at the start screen.  Don't like it, don't log in.  That is the way arctic always was and works best.  Blah blah blah.

Why don't you go somewhere else where you can bot?  I would way rather see that than Hoss and Aristox wonder why they are wasting their free time on you pack of assholes.

For the record, I don't have a strong opinion on the botting with 2 char option either way.

Jorquin

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #57 on: August 31, 2013, 11:04:44 AM »
i just see too many people posting on here who think they know whats best, when their perspective is usually very skewed from their own personal experiences, alignments, prejudices and a veiled self-serving bias.

sometimes i think there should be a change to this forum, where after you click the post button another window pop up which says, are you sure what you're writing isn't useless bullshit?


then again if that happened, i'd have a lot less to read.

Chisul

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #58 on: August 31, 2013, 11:39:47 AM »
We seriously need a like and dislike button.

Ok, so kidding aside...I've been playing a lot more recently having come back from a lengthy real world distraction. :)

I'm actually amazed at how many of my friends and enemies still play, still war, and still flame on the forums. There is strange comfort in knowing what to expect when I log, even if it has been a few years since I played seriously.

I get that a big part of coming to a fantasy game is so you can leave the worries/stress/expectations of work, life, etc at the doorstep. I think we have all been guilty of having a rough day, logging on only to go for a killing spree to blow off some steam. But never, EVER, in my memory of the game have I seen frustration at what happens in Arctic turn so quickly and so deeply into HATE for the players involved. It's crazy!

Where is the love?

Ezio

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Re: Arctic MUD Essay... My Thoughts on the Game
« Reply #59 on: August 31, 2013, 12:47:12 PM »
i just see too many people posting on here who think they know whats best, when their perspective is usually very skewed from their own personal experiences, alignments, prejudices and a veiled self-serving bias.

Bingo bango