Author Topic: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.  (Read 5695 times)

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reed23

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The whole reason all the chatter came up over the last week on the forums is a few people brought up botting/multiing.  They brought it up because they found that botting/multiing made the game much more enjoyable and arctic playable for them, and that if it were openly allowed, they would most likely play longer into the wipe.  Based on polls and posts, it appeared that the majority was in favor of botting because it would remove some of the inherent time/other stresses that made them shy away from the game.  However, as we all know, the people in charge have decided for us that we are not going that direction.

With that being said, all we have done is eliminated a way that the majority thought would make more people play the game, play the game for longer, and make it more enjoyable for everyone if they truly gave multiing/botting a try.  Because of the before-mentioned, we now need to come up with other ideas that would accomplish the original goal we have been discussing for the past week: what will make the game more enjoyable, and cause people to play deeper into the wipe?

Re-visiting the XP tables would make the game more playable for several people in my opinion.  If Imms are worried about trash, i would backload the xp tables, so people can get to 28 relatively quickly and be groupable, but to get to 30 where PK abilities significantly increase, would take some additional time.

PK - Drastically reducing the Stun % has already altered PK in a good way.  Reducing PVP damage is an easy way to make PK longer, and increasing PVP saves would also do the same.  I think everyone wants to get away from a 10 v 10 pk being decided in the first .25 seconds and back to a few rounds of battle with decision making influencing the outcome - not who has the quickest connection to get the first punch off which has decided large scale PK for some time now.

The only logical way to find people in arctic right now is level a trashmage to lvl 24, slap on some blue gloves and thick black wand, and c 'teleport' target.  Clair is garbage, track/hunt is broken, temp path leads you to solace [] half the time, etc.  I would like to see the 'Find opposing clan' possibilities looked at and updated.  No-relo gear would be good only if it were just as available as no-summons currently are in the game.

I'm not sure if any of the above changes would make me play a lot more, but would probably make the time i do play on arctic more enjoyable.  I would like to hear people's suggestions on what changes would make them play longer into the wipe, or make the game more enjoyable while they are logged on.

Keith

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2013, 07:33:23 PM »
I agree with all of these things.  I am disappointed as well in the decision on botting/multiplay; let's hope that the (extremely) vocal minority wind up being right. 

Besides botting/multiplay to make the game more enjoyable (not going to happen), I would add a couple of things:
1.  Decrease the length of TIME it takes to do some zones.  Most of us don't have 4 hours to spend (without botting) only to die at the end.
2.  Get rid of the annoying skills to train.  There's no point anyone who plays to legendary should have to put hours in if they were attempting to train the skills all along.
3.  Continue to increase hp regeneration to help with soloing.
4.  Bring back no_limit dams.

Super Tacoman

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2013, 08:48:19 PM »
all good ideas in this thread.  i can put an end to that!

i'd like to see a monthly pvp tournament followed by mud-wide pzap the next day.  imagine the insanity the 1st day of every month with 50 naked legendaries scrambling for gear.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 08:50:16 PM by Super Tacoman »

Boots

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2013, 02:49:13 AM »
what will make the game more enjoyable, and cause people to play deeper into the wipe?

Re-visiting the XP tables would make the game more playable for several people in my opinion.  If Imms are worried about trash, i would backload the xp tables, so people can get to 28 relatively quickly and be groupable, but to get to 30 where PK abilities significantly increase, would take some additional time.


I think you are getting to the correct answer, but the XP table really has nothing to do with it. How much better, in all actuality, is alevel 28 vs a 30? They are nearly identical, maybe at most a 50hp difference or 2 casting levels better.

I made a thread about overhauling the rank system, this time in favor of low costing high ability boosting ranks.  Even better, severely dropping back the XP table and still overhauling the rank system. This would be beneficial to both camps, the pkers (they can level new names to 30 very fast, and can go pk) but the people who play the same characters will be immune to electricity and heat, so they don't have to worry about constant trash mages or lowbies, since they will be strong enough to defend against it.

So yes, I am in favor of dropping the experience tables by 60million and increasing the power of rank points. 

Gramm

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2013, 03:02:35 AM »
I have firsthand witnessed a lot of disheartened players get fed up trying to hit 30 and moving onto a new char that also doesnt make it to 30 or just simply taking breaks and not returning. This isnt the case with everyone, i dont mind doing a little extra xp myself but i usually only have a couple of characters to play. This xp system seems to deter the would 5 player persons from their usual groove. For sure i would say hitting level 30 this wipe was really really challenging. I personally would enjoy being able to make a char and watching it hit 30 within 3-4 day timespan again. i mean maybe not the over night level 28 - 30 anymore but some form of compromise would be nice. Even if you took half the extra experience required from 25-30 that was added and shaved it off you might be doing a whole lot of mudders a serious favour : p
I havent really had an issue with ranks though here. at rank 34 just fine and im about 2 shy of what i would call the perfect barbarian in terms of what im aiming for. am imm blind/true seeing legend most skills except wild dance when all is done and said. and still rocking about 800 hps. in terms of a barbarian i dont think i could want much more. im not sure what it is like for most other classes, perhaps scouts, clerics, mages, have a harder time getting to battle ready status. barbs are just fine though : p assuming your healers are good!

Bryton

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2013, 02:56:04 PM »
28 to 30 is a big difference..

I agree with reed on all that he said.

Gnua

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2013, 03:28:03 PM »
we now need to come up with other ideas that would accomplish the original goal we have been discussing for the past week: what will make the game more enjoyable, and cause people to play deeper into the wipe?

Given that 2-3 characters without external support can
1. reach level 28 reasonably quickly and reliably
2. pop tattered prayerbooks and frosted books (maybe even ivory staff and ivory spined)
3. pop 2-4 +dam, 2-4 +heals, 20-40 hit points
4. pop 3d6 +/+ prime and 3d5 +/+ offie
5. complete crown and lily quests, pop impunity
6. defeat swallow instinct mob

The options currently seem to be:
1. do without that sort of thing (ineffective solo play)
2. have regular groupmates (clans, real life friends)
3. join/lead pickup groups
4. bot/multi (effective solo play)
5. quit

The shrinking player base makes #2 less possible. #3 has never been a good way of getting anywhere and is even less effective/possible with the shrinking base. #4 is sort of off the table and the shrinking base makes it harder to tag alone with a botter. We're trying to get away from #5.  Are we considering making it feasible for an unsupported solo player to pop frosted, tattered, ivory, impunity, crown and lily? It's currently quite doable for 2-3 and not so much for an unsupported solo (buffed up shamans who solo MoM generally have some kind of clan support).

reed23

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2013, 03:32:09 PM »
I don't really like the direction (i'm getting this feeling) of making 1 character super over-powering.  I think that will lead the game in the wrong direction.  I also do not like the idea that Corey presented of allowing people to gain buffs as the wipe goes on.  All that means is the lifers on the game that play 24/7 will have a distinct and huge advantage over the people who log occasionaly.  Legendary already gives that advantage. 

DCPTY1986

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2013, 03:36:17 PM »
I totally agree with Richard and Reed on this one, lowering the group limit has got to be one of the stupidest ideas ever. Making characters even more powerful then they already are isn't going to stop the Loretta's and Tim's from killing you, regardless of the PK changes made they're still going to come and get you.  Botting is the answer.

Jarrad

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2013, 03:52:14 PM »
Exp tables have actually achieved a discouragement of clans making heaps of trash mages simply for pk. This is good. Keep the exp tables where they are.

Agree mostly with your other points.

I didn't see much insight into actually making people play longer though. I would like to see hireable level 30 cleric charmies with 6 heals. They should have a limited spell list (cure spells, cloak, cure blind, remove curse, prayer, holy aura and heal). They should be able to watch a character and heal it automatically at bad. They should take up a group slot.

If this was implemented I think it would greatly open up the game to alot of people without the need to bot. I don't think it will actually stop botting however. It will also drastically increase survivability in pk...

Homard

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2013, 05:57:51 PM »
I dunno, as a casual player, I think some of you guys are missing the point on keeping casuals like me around (to maybe become more hardcore players).  I don't mind getting killed by trash or losing my crap gear.  I do mind having to spend a whole wipe to get to level 28 or spending weeks recovering the xp from a high level pk or exploring death.  I'd rather see last wipe's xp tables...it makes a death a lot less work to recover from.  Remember us casuals die a lot in PvE too.  We're exploring solo, hitting DTs, getting bashed by mobs we've never seen and the like.  Giant xp tables discourage exploration like nothing else from a casual point of view.

The toughest thing about balancing this game is that you've got the alphas who want all the eq and to compete, which is great.  Arctic has always been about that.  You also have the soloists and the new players trying to get enjoyment out of the game.  Back in the 90's, you had all sorts of new blood.  Chase 80% of it away and you still got enough alphas to keep things new.  Now you can't chase anyone or you're done.  The game needs to be fun for both groups, but lately the establishment (the old timey alpha dogs) are crucifying the newbies not just by their own actions, but as a result of the steps imms have taken to try to keep them under control.  It's been said a million times, but the game that I've played off and on for almost 2 decades is being killed by it's own player base and they don't want to even try to make it a more inviting place.

Just to stay on target, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I like Corey's idea.  It might work.  The idea of high level items being unlimited with tiny load %'s is also a good one IMO.  It certainly does give all clans a chance to compete later in the wipe and I think would make deeprenting less of a problem.

Gnua

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2013, 03:51:42 PM »
I don't really like the direction (i'm getting this feeling) of making 1 character super over-powering.

I don't think individual characters on the mud should become any more powerful either - in many ways I'm still used to level 30 darknights with less than 500 hitpoints, level 30 healers with barely 250 hitpoints, and spelled mages with less than 100 hitpoints.

That being said, it seems like basic spells (tattered prayerbook, frosted book, ivory spined, ivory staff) have been easily doable on 2-3 unsupported characters but not so much for individuals who do not bot, do not have a regular group, and do not have a friend with bots.

A sufficiently good pet/mercenary/charmie system would make this possible for the casual / solo player without increasing individual power. These pets could have severely reduced pk abilities (for example, if undead animates could actually tank but also had a high chance of exploding when an enemy paladin or healer uses the turn skill)

Now that I know the rest of the playerbase pops standard books and gear sets "solo", I'm unwilling to play the game unless I can too. Deleting people who solo that stuff won't make me come back. I'm not asking for any changes to Arctic, the staff and players have provided me a great deal of entertainment over the years for free.

But given that I have lots of other activities online and offline where I can play right away without waiting for friends to "form up" and can disappear instantly for real life without causing others grief, my status as a gamer becomes increasingly casual. Between the XP changes and the shrinking playerbase, the game and the culture has decreasing abilities to accommodate a casual player. This wipe in particular seemed inaccessible to my level of time commitment (in previous wipes I was never able to Legend but I was able to get all ivory staff spells for healer, steelskin rank for tank, relo for mage - in this wipe I did not even hit level 30 on tank, never even got regenerate/heal, and did not even pass the conclave test).

Legalized botting seemed like a way to open the game up to casual players, but that door has been closed. Are we looking at ways for highly casual (people who log on for 20-40 minutes at a time) to get basic spells and reach 30 or is it time for the casual gamer to move on?

feeling enlightened

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2013, 07:46:42 AM »
Step 1: Bot
Step 2: Claim you don't bot
Step 3: Play as long as you can into the wipe until you get deleted!

I believe this is a recipe for success for 90% of the mud population and shall be followed to the T.

Gnua

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Re: Purpose: Make more people play mud and play longer into wipe.
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 07:52:50 AM »
Step 1: Bot
Step 2: Claim you don't bot
Step 3: Play as long as you can into the wipe until you get deleted!

I believe this is a recipe for success for 90% of the mud population and shall be followed to the T.

I think people skip step 2 these days