Asshat Policy

[Basher]

The new asshat policy has a problem.

It allows the evil Imms to be asshats with no accountability.

If you truly care about the game, this is another area that needs to improve.

but don't expect a warning, or a discussion, when you cross the line, we will just delete you and move on.  No, the line won't be defined, you should know it in your gut.

should be absolutely unacceptable otherwise its just the imm's that are being asshats and setting a culture and an example of being asshats to the players. The players time and contribution by being a part of this game is not anyless important than the immortal's and both can have moods or bad days but this crappy attitude needs to change at the top if you want it to spread to the guys at the bottom. Deletion is used to frivolously, there should probably be a whole pbase queriable log like the pklog for deletion.

1) there should always be a warning
2) there should always be a notification visible to the players when a char has been deleted under this policy along with a rationale, atleast on the forum (maybe under a new section) like some of the actions taken recently have been communicated.

Don't be an asshat because you are feeling too lazy or having a bad day.

[Jorquin]

i agree and disagree.

i think the people who run the game should have ultimate power to enforce the rules, and i like the idea of them having more power to deal with idiots who need to be "dealt with".

that said, punishments will be judgement calls so they have to be made with an even keel. as long as justice is served up fairly and evenly, regardless of who the person is or whom they are affiliated with then i think its fine. that said, this sort of justice can only really be dished out by people who are truly impartial.

many immortals, being human, are not.

[snax]

I've not seen hardly any imms ever abuse their powers.  ignore the flaming and consider: i've had about 8 characters deleted over the years and been duct-taped for over 2 months on 1 character (a druid none the less) for being an ass-hat.

as i've matured/hit therapy/got meds, I realize I was the asshat, and the imms were justified in bitchslapping my stupid ass.

The last imm that more or less abused their position of authority was I believe dougan, and the administration dealt with the issue quitely and politely.

I'ld like to reimm some day on this mud, but not trying to get brownie points.  If i get deleted for a stupid rage rant I deserve it.  If you get deleted for a stupid asshat of the day award you deserve it.

The current active high imms actually seem to be chemically balanced and stable people and I do defer to their wisdom, and would say that if there is resentment towards that that you join me in seeking professional help on a weekly basis.  and no that doesn't mean your stupid or a piece of trash, it just means you have issues that either come out online or in real life that prohibit you from refraining to present as an asshat.

it's time to get rid of the eternal "the customer is always right" mentality.  anyone who has ever been on the other side of the exchange dealing with the customer is always right would know that, and anyone who hasn't is simply naive to which I offer my willingness to come crash at your pad.

[Basher]

Yes, I never said we need to limit their power or whatever or curtail their ability to judge or evaluate a situation to their discretion.

Just that when they go about enforcing it they are clear, consistent and opaque about it. Also no reason an unpleasant situation can't be handled maturely. If they want the pbase to act maturely they need to set a higher standard of conduct themselves at all times. The attitude has moved a fair bit in recent times but it is still patchy and with room for improvement.

[snax]

yeah it's pretty opaque and transparent when you type your logon and get the "type start to create a new character"....I'm sure the 4 imms who have active status and power to delete would be polite enough to respond to a well thought out email also.

appreciated your response to my response tho! thanks

[Gramm]

Fight fire with fire!! Dont be an asshat and expect something other than asshattery as your treatment. Not saying the punishment is always asshattery, i dont know what the imms have to deal with on a regular basis. But I sure know how i would deal with some of the asshats and in most cases they are treated too nicely : p I see plenty of "stop cheating" warnings from the system.

[Basher]

Ok, but thats it is asshattery is not always clear...and if there is no warning then i am afraid that is in itself asshattery.

Pkilling may or may or not be asshatterry, like I have noted there is a good reason to pkill Maza/Wild or Myth/Wild or uknowns for some, i'd say Mumu is within his rights to be enraged at having his ambush go wrong and declare a wipe long vendetta and yet some others would disagree and call it asshatterry.

Mumu being deleted for being annoyed at unexplained effects and venting about it and the result being deletion is also a case of the punishment NOT matching the crime. You don't go deleting because your ego couldn't handle a bit of abuse, well that is not if you don't want to set an example that encourages asshaterry.

If the Imms can be flippant about deleting chars for a little abuse, then so can Mumu choose to rage and pkill others until they ground to dust because they ended up killing him. I hope you can see the analogy.

Sorry, but yes I am asking for the Imms to adhere to a higher standard than the players.

Going the route the imms went with BiA and SoB is the right way...thats all I am saying...and the way they need to stick with at ALL times. That was a refreshing change and worth keeping around.

If you want to keep players, give them ample warning before action....being a heavy-handed douche in response to douchery is lame if you want to encourage a reduction in douchery.

Even players have an off day and slip-ups and the bar should to be lowered to help change the culture of this game.
Deletion should be reserved for persistent infringements, not for just pushing the boundaries on the odd occasion.

Call it care-bear policing if you must, but compassion at the top will trickle down.
I blame the asshat imms, either through cheating or their crappy attitude of the yesteryears for the current culture of player asshattery on this MUD.

[Tajs]

Considering I've had my imm deleted over a joke shout and if you happen to come across an imm who's had a bad day...
I'd suggest at least you're put in the sin-bin and everyone get, say, 2-3 days to think things over before whichever punishment is handed out.

Also if someone's abyssed always give them a time.

[btown]

Ohh!  I want to hear the joke what is it?

[Gramm]

You know basher i think in the loretta case you may be right, but i wouldnt be learning on him calling hoss and asshole as his grounds for deletion, i would be leaning more on the pk botbomb style that he used to prove he was THE asshat of this wipe. dont even try to deny it unless of course you didnt personally bear witness to it.  But maybe it would be a nice gesture next time and sometimes it is very hard being the bigger man but to perhaps throw him into the abyss and tell him the next time he wont be so lucky. It is one thing for him to call you an asshole(abyssal worthy as im sure some might have said worse and survived!) and who is to say that he did nothing to provoke the incident previously. I have personally been in the abyss before and its not fun. I certainly didnt try to aggro the guy who is the active face for the immortals and likely taking on all of the propaganda every unsatisfied arctic player has to offer. If i logged on one day and noticed i couldnt check the who list, im sure the man had his reasons for revoking the priveledge. If i logged on 1 day and wasnt able to relocate heh im SURE the man has his reasons, i would probably take it as personal flattery if I had become such a giant nuisance to arctic that Hoss had to personally come down from the immortal golf course and smite me but not quite delete me for being again im gonna keep using this awesome term THAT GUY. Loretta buddy you won the wipe with 27 murders in a single month congrats i hope you dont quit forever but i hope you never try to beat that record.

Anyways before i go way off topic....as always... Lets see some mass abyssals for asshattery style botting instead of pzaps and perhaps people remember how much nicer it is to be pzapped as opposed to abyssal where all of the bot earned goodies will decay either way AND nobody will be able to play for a week on top it:p  But in the case of deletion i personally know that as a man i over react and say and do things all of the time that given more time to make a level headed decision would react in less broken things around the house and silly rants for my friends to all read on arctic. perhaps give yourself more time and then if u still wanna delete someone after giving them 2 days in the abyss and revisiting the issue BLAM no more troll. im not telling anyone at all how to do their thing, this personally is a method that helps me and i wish i exercised it more often.

[Ericj]

I like the no asshat policy, but I hope most folks try not to be one anyway.  I have played for many wipes and at times probably fell into that category.  The past few wipes we have war'd many different clans and I tried to make sure if anyone wanted peace they could get it or heck, even a lone solo'r not be pk'd because he was not a threat at that time.

I wanted to give my quick opinion on  the bot issue.  I don't like the full-script idea of bots, they really are on auto-pilot.   With my limited time to play mud, logging on and having to wait 20-30 minutes for a group or what not just is not feasible anymore, having folks who could bot enables you to zone easier.  I rarely saw bots (non-scripted) go into a PK and no way a human player is going to play two characters in a pk effectively.  (Some can't play one effectively *ILYA*) :)

Anyways, seems with the last thread that a lot of folks at least have some interest in the game and want to see it live on!

Thanks,

[Gnua]

By the way, is killing everyone on the who-list considered asshattery? Some could argue this is a legitimate way of keeping your enemies down until they have enough to force you off. People keep moaning about Tim and Lottie, but I seem to recall that the Finns have been doing this for years as well.

I've always thought this was acceptable under the "mortal should manage their own affairs" clause, but lately Hoss and Aristox have said a few things which run counter to the: "crush your enemies, see them driven from the mud, hear the lamentation on the forums" culture. Has something changed? are the imms going soft in their old age or something?

[Aristox]

Generally the only people who complain about "evil Imms" are the ones caught cheating.  And they are almost always the ones who when confronted about something fishy (or blatantly against the rules) go off on a rant about our mother's.  My favorite are the ones caught for multing or botting who yell about how we are biased because we caught them and not their enemy who is doing the same thing.  Your cheating has nothing to with your enemy, or me, it is all about you.

I can't think of a recent punishment that didn't fit the crime.

You will counter with Mumu, and I will counter that Mumu was making the game unplayable for a large number of people.  That Mumu was across the line of good judgement.  I do not think slaughtering mid levels because they might be alts of your enemies is a proper tactic under any circumstance.  That is not making the game more fun for anyone except Mumu.  It is completely selfish behaviour.  Just because you can do it does not mean that you should do it.

I try to hold myself and the other immortals to a higher standard than the players.  I think it is about time for the players to take responsibility for the playerbase and not be asshats.  If you are being an asshat it will be very obvious to multiple people, ask someone you know doesn't care for you if you are being an asshat.  I don't want to delete you, I don't want to be your babysitter, so don't make me do either of those things.

Now if you want to go kill a few mid levels for some fun every couple of weeks, have at, but if you log in everyday for a week and terrorize anyone you don't recognize on the who list: gtfo.

Clear enough?

[Gnua]

I do not think slaughtering mid levels because they might be alts of your enemies is a proper tactic under any circumstance.  That is not making the game more fun for anyone except...

Now if you want to go kill a few mid levels for some fun every couple of weeks, have at, but if you log in everyday for a week and terrorize anyone you don't recognize on the who list: gtfo.

Clear enough?

Yes, very clear now. Perhaps it was the past that was unclear then. I was always under the impression that slaughtering mid levels simply because they are unrecognized was core to arctic culture and people should suck it up or quit.

[Aristox]

It is a new day, just like yesterday.