Author Topic: State of the Bot Address  (Read 49911 times)

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Bryton

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #165 on: July 28, 2013, 11:05:57 AM »
I would play longer and probably more if I could play 2 characters. The reason is I get so bored just playing one character to legend especially with the new XP tables and I don't have enough time to play 2 characters. But if we were allowed to play more then 2 I probably wouldn't play.

Gramm

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #166 on: July 28, 2013, 01:19:05 PM »
The moment i am stuck sitting in an inn because of some bot army or even 2 guys with 4 chars that intend to purely pk everything on the mud. ill probably go back to playing pure league of legends myself. Not everyone playing this game writes script. I personally have trouble creating an autosplitter. I know i am probably the extreme case of being script illiterate but ive enjoyed this game just fine without bots for over a decade at least and then some. Each wipe when i spend more time in an inn and writing on these forums than actually playing the game is about the time im done for the wipe. And as a myth member i have never declared war on anyone(in a serious manner). But open the flood gates and watch what some of the would be abusers do to this mud without any form of punishment. Again, botting already happens... only the ones that step way way way way out of line get punished. I think this is the best form of control and defense krynn has against this form of "tyranny". Some might get a way with it.. but honestly the ones that got nailed for it this wipe will come in force and eradicate anyone that does not conform to their pk methods. Just wait and see.
Sorry if you are the peaceful type that would use bots to zone and explore and learn. There is always someone that takes their freedoms way too far though and ruins it for everyone else.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 01:27:17 PM by Gramm »

Rhys

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #167 on: July 28, 2013, 08:47:09 PM »
One thing I keep reading is # characters per IP address. Not that I have the knowledge but I assume anyone with a bit of IT know-how can get around this. Therefore limiting # chars based on IP address would be an unfair restraint.

Slunt

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #168 on: July 29, 2013, 08:05:41 AM »
If botting were allowed.

I would play more (actually Play) during the wipe.

I would make 2-3 characters. And explore zones. I'd probably play the whole wipe. ( few hours a week)

-Dan

Slunt

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #169 on: July 29, 2013, 08:09:29 AM »
When i attempted to bot this wipe for the 1 hour before i got caught here is what happened.

I didn't try to mask my IP. I did use 3 seperate e-mails. I never had any intention of PK'ing or other negative interactions with players.

If it was allowed. I would just tell am Immortal who I was what my intentions were to explore and have some fun. Use all the same e-mail addresses and IP address and if i ended up being a asshole i could get deleted.

As it stand i've played for probably 12 years off and on and i have never been abyssed or punished for any offense (i never violated any rules) wonder how many people on the thread can say that?


Gnua

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #170 on: July 29, 2013, 09:38:27 AM »
i have never been abyssed or punished for any offense (i never violated any rules) wonder how many people on the thread can say that?

Wow, that's pretty impressive. On the other extreme, my wife got abyssed in less than five minutes play. She got slept by an invisible character (back in the days of longer sleeps but after the days you could quit while asleep) and created a new character and got abyssed for multiplay.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 09:41:09 AM by gnua »

eli

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #171 on: July 29, 2013, 09:44:48 AM »
I would play more if I were able to play 2 characters. But only until I was pk'd by a bot army or what I consider to be trash tactics. Fix PK first.

My suggestion: don't allow full looting after pk. Make it reverse proportional to how many chars are in the pk group. If 1 char pks another then they should be able to loot 5 pieces of gear. If 2-3 chars then 4 pieces of gear, etc. This would discourage bot armies to an extent. But there will always be people who just want to be dicks. Another benefit from this is that we would be more likely to see larger fights because people won't lose all their gear. Think about it, there aren't nearly enough players to support all the gear in this game. After a big fight, where is the winning clan going to put that gear? On multi's that they won't play nearly as much, return it or dump it. If there is a limit to looting then folks can regroup and go for round two. That sounds like a lot more fun to me. More pk, more gear, more excitement, less risk, less frustration.

sart

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #172 on: July 29, 2013, 09:58:15 AM »
I have given it a try the last couple days. 

In fact I created two characters and right away at level 1 sent a tell to Hoss who was on telling him "I am multying, can you tell?"

I can say just after taking a couple chars to 15, that it does open doors.. makes the game faster.  It also is much more dangerous... trying to get out of a tough situation is harder.   I also don't much care for it.  I ended up stopping playing both chars and just played one of them for a while. 

You lose that connection with your character when you are playing more than one.  You care less.  Thus it will effect the choices you make.

So my opinion is this... Make death penalties huge for pve deaths.  I would be ok with the loss of 2 levels.. make people feel it.

I am a pretty open rule following guy.  I do not feel bad about multying for a couple of days though because I told everyone I was going to, told hoss when I was, and am telling you now that I did.  Also, there is the fact that everyone else is doing it anyway.

Malthros

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #173 on: July 29, 2013, 10:49:09 AM »
If I were to multi it'd simply be because I have more fun doing it than not.  The novelty would likely wear off fast enough and if you're playing a mud solo why not go play something else like skyrim or download the old gold box dragon lance pc games instead?

In the event you guys allow botting do a test run, something like:
Botting is allowed however you have to setup all the bots under the same email and whatever other info. You also are not allowed to use more than one character at a time in pk(self defense in an ambush would be ok) and using a bot group for pk or using any bots not setup in the aforementioned way results in all your characters getting wiped.


Run that way for a month or so and adjust as needed. Would suggest not allowing bots for the first week of a wipe.  Noting would kill numbers of real players fast than having hundreds of characters online but not finding groups because of bots filling them out.

And don't touch group size. Just because we can run zones with less than 10 doesn't mean people want to shrink groups even further. If you want a challenge then don't run a full group, some people want to be able to take newer or underdeveloped characters to run zones and not be bapted because som old guard players don't like that they can run stuff easier now than in the past. 

Aristox

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #174 on: July 29, 2013, 11:21:19 AM »
First, I want to thank everyone for the frank discussion.  As long as we can be honest and mature I think the game can survive and get through a lot of the stupid issues we deal with in our strange little sandbox.  I could have done without some of the sniping back and forth, but a lot of good information came out of this thread.

The TL;DR here is:  We are not going to allow multing/botting within the rules.

There are a lot of reasons for this decision.  I am not going to go into details because it will create an atmosphere of second guessing and nitpicking.  We want to do what we feel is in the best interest of the most players, whether everyone agrees or not.


That said, we are not going to sit idly by and hope everything works out.  We have a number of changes we are still hammering out details on, and I will give a bit of information on some of them here.


1. The Don't Be an Asshat Policy
This will begin being enforced with a new vigor.  Hoss' recent deletions/pzap of clans/players for multing, botting and/or being a jerk were completely justified under these rules.  These punishments will continue and expand.  Do NOT make your goal in the game to make life suck for everyone else.  We will let it go on for a short time, everyone needs a stress release, but don't expect a warning, or a discussion, when you cross the line, we will just delete you and move on.  No, the line won't be defined, you should know it in your gut.

Consider multing and botting to be under the asshat rule, even though they are called out on its own in help policy.  You can't hide forever.  I know those who already multi are going to continue doing it, just don't become a baby when we catch you. No one likes a whiner.

Players can help here.  We are a very small staff (pretty much 4 active immortals), if you think someone is crossing the line, tell us about it.  Just do not get upset if we do not agree.


2. More with less
We want to address the need for bots directly.  We have a lot of ideas around this, but the center of the idea is to adjust classes, items, skills, spells, xp tables and hitpoints to make it possible for us to lower the group size max.  We haven't settled on a number yet, we can't really until a lot of the other changes are done.

This will require quite a pile of work, but nothing over the top.  A lot of this is drawn from ideas we had for Lube.  Really these changes will be done sans-Lube, and encompass about 1/3 of what we had in mind for Lube, so we have some idea where we are going with them.  Lube is on hold, this is more important.

These changes will require the dropping of at least one well loved class, it just can't fit in the new system as it stands.  We have plans to replace it with something more in line, but be forewarned.


3. PK
We want to address the quickness of some deaths in PK.  We want you to have a chance to react.  This is related to the above changes, but I wanted to call it out directly.

We are also looking for ideas from the community on how to adjust PK to make the "drive them from the game forever" tactic more difficult to pull off.  Anything is on the table from NO_RELO equipment and allowing prep-spells to be cast in inns all the way to removing the who list.  Start a thread with your ideas, I will read them all, respond to some.

This all needs to be directed at making the game fun for everyone, including the people currently losing.  When one group decides to keep another group from playing, it is fun for no one.



4. Miscellaneous
We have a lot of little tweaks and changes in mind.  I wanted to make sure you don't think the above are the only things on tap.



I am going to close this thread here.  If you want to discuss anything I have said here please start a new thread.  I do not want PMs, I would rather have the discussion in the open.  I will try to respond when something warrants it.