Author Topic: State of the Bot Address  (Read 58502 times)

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xellos

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #150 on: July 27, 2013, 06:14:54 PM »
The crying in this thread makes me want to go hug my niece.

@Locki - do you know why SoB always wants to pk you?  its because you cry so hard on forums and shouts that it amuses them.  Myth harbors warring clans multis because you guys love the zoning and equipment you get from them leading your groups.  I know this for a fact because Myth  knowingly harbored my cleric last wipe when I was in APOC fighting the finn army.

@Brandon - Quit crying wolf.  APOC had bots last wipe and this wipe and you knew about it. 

@true neutral casual players who got pkilled - that is the life of arctic, it always has been and always will be.  if warring clans suspect that you are the other clans multi unknown leveling up they are going to pkill you.  SoB did it this wipe and so did WILD.  When some new clan suddenly arises its an automatic question mark to the other clans.  its a tactic that been tried before.  example: VOID clan comes out of no where. we suspect its WILD.  we go pkill them 2v4 and what do you know. it was a WILD group.

@whiners that died to Essovius/Mumu - ya that was just me and lottie owning you. grow a pair and fight back.  you guys confuse the actions of 2 people with Aemons Army.

@kilians - you are retarded. your in a clan full of bots.

@i wont play if botting was legal - lying to yourself much? arctic is an addiction that is hard to quit forever.

After Luke lead his final charge into the fight with deleted most of SoB had quit by then because we hadnt seen a wild group in 2 weeks, Cyan was broken and raped us twice, wives got fed up being ignored, and some people just wanted to return to a normal daily schedule.  So the rest of us who still played took in the Army, hooked up with the russians and played  for a little while longer. 

Bots are great for zoning, total shit in PK.  If a real 10 man group went to fight Aemons Army, Aemons army would be utterly destroyed because scripts cant adjust to unexpected situations in PK.
Actually, bot scripted characters cant even handle certain mob specs, and end up mass ripping the whole group.  I would rather be in a real 10 man wipe racing then 5 players and 5 bots because in the end, bots dont stand up to a real controlled character.  Bots are a nice stopgap to fill in a zoning group and most of you who are whining know that you benefitted from being in a group that had a bot or 2.  so please get of your high horse.

Why do we play arctic?  I play arctic for its competitive nature.  Its a fantasy game, I can be whoever I want to be.  To some people Im a great buddy, to others like Nate they want to pkill me IRL.  All i see are people crying because the mud pop has declined, nicer eq has become available to them and when they get mage bombed and die they cry foul on the forums.  Do you know how many days of playtime it takes to even legend a mage, get the right ranks, and know how to finesse a PK?   Bots didnt pk you, I did.

tim - formally known as essovius/veigar/drizzle

« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 06:30:19 PM by xellos »

enochvey

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #151 on: July 27, 2013, 07:19:53 PM »
To answer the question about what would keep me playing longer:

(1) Things that would allow me to explore more of arctic on my own.

Legend ranks, world merchant, reduced penalty on death are great examples of things that have already been changed in that regard. I don't have any bright ideas for other changes, but one of the biggest things that keeps me playing is the sense of exploration, although I hate kewords with a passion.

(2) Things that help deter blatant griefing. Changes to the who list based upon aggressor flag is one example I've seen recently, but I think more could be done.

I would suggest learning from EVE online's pvp system where there are areas where pvp is not permitted unless there is a formal war declaration through the game mechanics, or if players are in the more dangerous/lucrative areas.

(3) Forming connections with other players in or out of my own clan and zoning with them etc. I like to solo, but I also like to play the game with other human beings.

Perhaps adding some sort of clan alliance functionalities above and beyond the existing clan functions might help.

(4) Having the means to escape and/or get out of the inn when being hunted by a much larger group. This could be solved by the previously mentioned pvp system, or possibly through buffs/debuffs placed on players engaged in pvp conflict that would make it easier for those outnumbered to escape.

This would have to be done in a way that did not negate the advantage of those with better numbers/gear if the hunted chose to stay and fight, but rather would give the smaller force a greater ability to get out alive. I.E. if a person in the smaller group uses an offensive spell/skill the buffs etc would be gone, but if they want to recall/flee from the get go, they would be harder to find/trap/kill.

(5) Getting rid of the of KW's that are nonsensical, or have absolutely NO clue to them in the room or even the entire zone whatsoever. Apart from the actual fighting difficulty in a zone, I can't think of anything else that gets in the way of exploration more than this.

People should not have to look at logs to learn zones. Yes there should be thought involved and it doesn't have to be easy. That having been said, the difficulty involved should not be about guessing words or looking at a thesaurus, it should be about paying attention to the details of the zone itself, I.E. interactions with npc's, room descriptions, item descriptions and scan info.

(6) If anyone noticed, not one of these things that has kept/will keep me playing longer has to do with the number of bots roaming around, rather it has to do with my ability to interact with the game's content and with other players on MY terms, with or without bots being involved.

Jorquin

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #152 on: July 27, 2013, 08:12:24 PM »
after serious consideration, if full scripted botting was legalized i probably wouldnt play at all, simply because i can't be bothered to learn how to script properly.

Keith

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #153 on: July 27, 2013, 08:33:55 PM »
I enjoy scripting as a hobby on Arctic, even if it's never going to be close to the level of those who do it for a living.  I have botted <10 times on this game, but did enjoy it thoroughly when I did, mostly just to level up annoying characters.  I would play longer and be more likely to solo explore if multiing were allowed.  I say multiing rather than botting because then there is no extraneous skills other than playing that need to be learned (which has been a worry of some of the players).  I think the limit of 2 seems arbitrary but good enough (I would prefer 3).  I don't think groups of 10 bots are a good idea, sorry Aemon.  I think that more people will play if there are full groups rather than trying to scrounge up 5 characters to do an overall less fun zone.  I don't think that the overall pk environment will change much: yes, one person can more easily pk with a bot rather than solo, but overall, bots are terrible pkers as multiple people have elaborated on.
 
EDIT:  For the love of god, stop getting sidetracked on whether some characters caused you to innsit this wipe.  This thread is about botting/multiing, not trash pk/tether/animate/griefing.  High level, elite spell mages have always been a pain to deal with; this isn't new.  Start a thread on those topics if you want, but please leave this to the actual discussion of botting/multiing.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 12:48:14 AM by Keith »

Malthros

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #154 on: July 27, 2013, 09:06:08 PM »
I might play more for a wipe if bottling is legal but it won't fix the mud's biggest problem: the community is for of elitists and assholes. If I want to subject myself to ego tripping win at all costs people I'd just go play something like LoL. Other games are more casual friendly as well while arctic is and was a game for kids and unemployed people with tons of free time.

That main issue aside, botting won't really fix the mud it'd just add some band aids.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 09:08:13 PM by Malthros »

Brafu

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #155 on: July 27, 2013, 09:54:27 PM »
Here's a question I think should be asked and answered in regards to botting.

Of those of you who ended up turning to botting, how many of you consider pk to be the main reason you mud, and zoning a secondary purpose?

It might not seem like it, but I believe that question relates directly to what Aristox asked.

Jorquin

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #156 on: July 27, 2013, 10:20:46 PM »
i used proxy servers to create a multi for zoning purposes, and they rarely have any use for pk.

they're usually a healer, who passes on all spells / equipment that any human needs and thus rarely ever gets legend. i think a couple wipes i made an ocean, so i could 2man with healer/ocean in my first few goes, but then realised making the healer the "bot" was better since it can help fill the shitty role that noone wants to play for zoning, not just for 2manning

kilians

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #157 on: July 27, 2013, 10:24:40 PM »
@Tim  your retarded and last time iv checked we have had no one botting?

so they're for you sir go cock fight with someone we all know u enjoy geting your shit pushed in

Rhys

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #158 on: July 27, 2013, 10:31:30 PM »
I offer the perspective of someone who loves the game but has no interest in the clan politics and is content in the knowledge that he will never have the elite gear. I play every wipe, really enjoy it, get far too hooked right up to about rank 10 or so. It is at this point that I loose interest because I am limited to ranking in solo zones which quickly becomes boring. You might say this is a social game and it is my fault. I can appreciate that but will ultimately become bored and quit for another wipe.  My most enjoyable moments have been the conclave tests the regen quest etc.

I have always felt guilty leaving a group at any time due to family commitments and am quite content with my own pace.  To answer Aristox's question, yes I would play a lot lot longer during the wipe.

It is quite obvious that multiing is epidemic. My present perception would be one of inequality and a considerable dissuasion to play again until it is resolved.

Regarding PK - i still believe a max pk per player would fix many problems (can be unlimited if war is declared between clans or regens at a certain rate. Finer detail to be adjusted).


Brafu

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #159 on: July 27, 2013, 10:59:04 PM »
@Daniel

But, more to the point I was getting at... what is the reason you play Arctic? Is it for the zoning, exploring, learning (and maybe social aspects lol), or is it for the pk elements?

What I'm trying to figure out is if those who end up botting are also more interested in the pk aspects of the game than someone like me might be. I'm not trying to figure out if the bots are made to compliment the pk side or not, but just if those who prefer the pk element more than any other are also the same who end up botting.

I have a theory that those who lean towards botting are also more inclined to be heavily involved in PvP. So basically if someone is really into pk and they find themselves in the thick of it every wipe (especially if they are the instigators), then it might explain why someone might be more apt to bot (or be for botting). Why? My guess is that, even though there might be 20+ real people online (and assuming its not two 10 man clan groups or something), they either don't want to group with X, Y, and Z, or said letters of the alphabet don't want to group with them because of their pk history (whatever that maybe).

It might be a stretch, I don't know. But I think why a person plays the game can be a big influence in their desire/need to bot or not. I have never really seen pk as the biggest draw for me in this game, even though I do enjoy it and seldom shy away from it if it comes. I'm here to enjoy the zones and play with friends, and while I like nice eq it's also not a huge part of the game for me. Basically I have options when it comes to finding groups, where if I burnt some bridges behind me (ie people are hesitant to group me because they might get attacked) then I might not and would be forced into botting or just not playing.

Jorquin

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #160 on: July 28, 2013, 02:34:05 AM »
i enjoy exploring and solving the most.  your theory is flawed.

xellos

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #161 on: July 28, 2013, 02:48:32 AM »
@kilians - obviously you are clueless and not in the inner circle of clan deleted. its comments like that, that make me think, next wipe i will attack whatever clan your in, but then again the leaders of clan deleted will be playing during the wipe rush, so obviously you wont be in that clan until they quit for the wipe and Ilya takes over.  Wasnt someone in clan deleted just released from the abyss for botting/character sharing? please step down from your horse sir.

simply put, 3 out of 4 of the major clans at one point or another this wipe used bot healers, or multied.  SoB - BiA - deleted.
its a fact, everyone knows

people are starting to blur the line with PK - bot characters - and multying.  its associated with each other but not the same.  Having to coordinate with only 1-3 people to be able to instantly hit the big zones made everything much easier.  Most people are on time constraints, living life, or have something already planned.  So when an unexpected decay happens you can go after it a lot faster then having to wait around for 7-8 real people. and even thne you might spend 3-4 hours in the same zone because it has such a low load percentage.

and i still think system notice when a  limit 1 item decays would be great for competition.

you zone to get big, once you get big, you look for a target.  but then again, most of the people crying didnt play arctic when you couldnt leave the solace sewers without some mage trying to charm/sleep/cone of cold you.

Jarrad

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #162 on: July 28, 2013, 04:41:37 AM »
Some people are suggesting that bots are bad at pk. This is complete rubbish. Regards Aemon style it is true that you have little control once a battle begins, but he is constantly fine tuning to become more effective. For the 2 chars controlled by one person with some simple triggers, your reaction is approx one round behind the pace of play. Regards ambush style pk, bots are better than humans...

I can definitely forsee issues around some players if all restrictions are lifted. Now instead of essovius and chorillo tether bombing you have essovius + bots and chorillo + bots. I don't personally see this as a problem, but as hoss or aristox mentioned early on you will get escalation until everyone who wants to be competitive has to field 4+ chars... To me the beauty of arctic has been and remains to be the trap factor that allows the underdog to lure his enemy into a beat down, and one guy controlling 8 chars is much easier to fool than a team of players with shared knowledge and experience.

Arctic is NOT designed for peaceful zoning. BUT we have a higher playerbase population of peaceful zoners. Botting increases the capabilities of both sides, but ultimately the wolves will still kill the sheep. Recent game developments have been aimed at increasing the ease of pking (tether/spelltrap), increasing the ease of defending against them (wall of force, enigmatic dome). People don't only play an online fantasy game to make friends and be polite. Some of them actually play it to get away from the niceties of real life and have the opportunity to be an asshole... This is not inherently bad. Everyone deserves to get fun out of the game, but when you enter arctic you enter an environment that is based on conflict.

Any regulation requires active staff members to police it. The more rules you have, the more staff needed to enforce them. Pking is NOT abusing the game, pvp is part of the game design. The only serious implications of legalising botting is players become completely unreliant on socially interacting with other players. This does not mean people won't group with their friends. It probably does mean that they won't be summoning in the fairly naked and casual player who is shouting for a group...

Possible solutions:
a) add a link to the forum along with or rather than the website on the log in page.
b) add a forum category for clan recruitment
c) add a revamped wanted board, top pkillers make the board and groups killing them receive double xp and rank xp (number one = cyan level rank xp decreasing via position) Board is cleared monthly and people are removed from the board upon execution by mob or player. This system could be open to abuse, suggest only kills of level 25+ chars count as board kills, and clannies cannot claim the reward. Obviously nothing stops them from clan leaving, allowing a friend to kill them and claiming the reward right after they have ranked. However, abuse is also possible from the current xp gain for pkill but it does not seem to be occurring.
d) Reduce shout cooldown to 5 tics or so, there is not a problem anymore with reduced playerbase of shout spam...
e) Fundraise via playerbase to develop a modern platform for connecting to the game via social media to attract new players.
f) Allow 2 chars per ip address and address bot armies in game via immortal controlled pwipe style chars...


NisK

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #163 on: July 28, 2013, 09:34:58 AM »
I am for botting, big surprise! I play arctic to explore new stuff mostly, and i like to be able to go to the zones and spend long time there trying to find stuff. So bots are perfect for that. Not many people wanna spend so long time in zones not to mention i would have to wait for em to log.

reed23

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Re: State of the Bot Address
« Reply #164 on: July 28, 2013, 10:42:20 AM »
When can we expect some closure (for the time being) of this issue?