Game ideas

[Malthros]

And a game that is that easy is like reading a book in which you already know the ending. I’m not going to sit through 1000 pages of reading when I already know exactly what’s going to happen. That doesn’t interest me. If I wanted easy I would go play World of Warcraft where the only investment you need is time to be elite.

Spoiler: the good guys win, unless it’s some grim dark setting like wh40k. If you focus on the destination you miss out on the journey.

[Vespin]

re: gear decay

I have kept the same core set the entirety of this wipe on two characters.  with the exception of cyan items and robes of darkness, which i've had for about 3 months or so.  the only reasons i was able to do this are because of quarantine, and being willing to play an average of 18 hours/day for 9 months.  and having access to likeminded individuals with staggered playtimes.  this is absolutely unsustainable and if i had ANYTHING else to do, i would have left long ago.  I don't know how to fix this, but chasing endless decays is pretty bad. and the way the system is now, whoever has the most playtime will always win out, provided they have the knowledge to load the gear.  and we as a community seem to have become much less guarded about giving away game knowledge, so that isn't exactly a barrier.  i honestly don't even know the point of it...i mostly play for nostalgia's sake.  even with arguably one of the strongest thief sets ever assembled, i barely break 100 hp stabs on players.  so. it's not to compete.  it just feels like the objective is to prevent other people from having fun toys.  which sucks.  and sort of mirrors the pk mindset this game evolved into, which is "how do i make sure my enemy can never play in any capacity whatsoever."  i really dislike both of these looks for arctic, but i also don't think the answer is make all characters gods through unlimited gear.  it's a tough spot to be in.

[Willoe]

Re:Vespin

I think it's really a matter of perspective for "god chars". We are comparing characters against the current difficult of the game. If we start to use this as a  baseline and start to build up, then sure, god chars for storms, but storms chars will get smashed in new abc zone unless they have gear from blood shoal...You hit the nail on the head regarding current playtime. People have more time now than before to go chase decays, and it's not that they like doing it, but they have to. You reduce/take away the time availability(which will happen at some point), and how many people stop playing because they just say screw it?

[Vespin]

re: willoe

me. you're talking about me. screw it. i burned out.

[el conquistador]

If limit one items became unlimited, The game would just be far too easy. And a game that is that easy is like reading a book in which you already know the ending. I’m not going to sit through 1000 pages of reading when I already know exactly what’s going to happen. That doesn’t interest me. If I wanted easy I would go play World of Warcraft where the only investment you need is time to be elite.

is this true?  the game is too easy with the strongest items?  core can surely log an 8 man group with top tier items.  are core quitting because it is too boring with their powerful gear?

maybe some of these items need a hard nerf?

[Willoe]

Just noticed that post from Kir. That's kind of funny...saying you don't want to play if you know whats going to load. Nothing loads when gear is maxxed...If gear is low % and unlimited, you don't know what will load when you run it. That's the whole point lol!

[George]

is this true?  the game is too easy with the strongest items?  core can surely log an 8 man group with top tier items.  are core quitting because it is too boring with their powerful gear?

maybe some of these items need a hard nerf?

This is a pretty good example of how item limits work and are viewed. Simply put, if having the strongest sets of eq made the game too easy, the top clans wouldn't fight so hard to keep them. Players quit because they are unable to maintain the sets of eq that make the game fun for them. Players quit because they are unable to obtain the items they want to obtain. Players quit because other players kill them and take away the items they want to keep... Players do not quit because the game is too easy, no matter the gear/rank sets you have. Having the opportunity to load the items you want makes running zones exciting, rather than disappointing. As long as the UNIQUE flag is expanded to cover a group, no one is actually gaining any more power than players already have right now. There is still only one of each limit_1 item in a group, as there already could be, and very often is. This raises the floor, not the ceiling. Running Cyan and Blood Shoal with a group of Cyan/Blazewight-geared characters and dragon killer items is already happening, and the players who are doing it don't quit after they do. The argument that the game will be too easy just doesn't have any evidence to support it, and loads of evidence to the contrary. I don't know how we're expected to make a more well developed argument for an idea without developed feedback. Saying, "I don't think it'll work." is no better than saying, "I think it will work.". Tell us why the things we want won't work. Tell us what is wrong with the ideas we have.

[corey]

is this true?  the game is too easy with the strongest items?  core can surely log an 8 man group with top tier items.  are core quitting because it is too boring with their powerful gear?

maybe some of these items need a hard nerf?

This is a pretty good example of how item limits work and are viewed. Simply put, if having the strongest sets of eq made the game too easy, the top clans wouldn't fight so hard to keep them. Players quit because they are unable to maintain the sets of eq that make the game fun for them. Players quit because they are unable to obtain the items they want to obtain. Players quit because other players kill them and take away the items they want to keep... Players do not quit because the game is too easy, no matter the gear/rank sets you have. Having the opportunity to load the items you want makes running zones exciting, rather than disappointing. As long as the UNIQUE flag is expanded to cover a group, no one is actually gaining any more power than players already have right now. There is still only one of each limit_1 item in a group, as there already could be, and very often is. This raises the floor, not the ceiling. Running Cyan and Blood Shoal with a group of Cyan/Blazewight-geared characters and dragon killer items is already happening, and the players who are doing it don't quit after they do. The argument that the game will be too easy just doesn't have any evidence to support it, and loads of evidence to the contrary. I don't know how we're expected to make a more well developed argument for an idea without developed feedback. Saying, "I don't think it'll work." is no better than saying, "I think it will work.". Tell us why the things we want won't work. Tell us what is wrong with the ideas we have.

People definitely quit once they've won

[Bryton]

is this true?  the game is too easy with the strongest items?  core can surely log an 8 man group with top tier items.  are core quitting because it is too boring with their powerful gear?

maybe some of these items need a hard nerf?

This is a pretty good example of how item limits work and are viewed. Simply put, if having the strongest sets of eq made the game too easy, the top clans wouldn't fight so hard to keep them. Players quit because they are unable to maintain the sets of eq that make the game fun for them. Players quit because they are unable to obtain the items they want to obtain. Players quit because other players kill them and take away the items they want to keep... Players do not quit because the game is too easy, no matter the gear/rank sets you have. Having the opportunity to load the items you want makes running zones exciting, rather than disappointing. As long as the UNIQUE flag is expanded to cover a group, no one is actually gaining any more power than players already have right now. There is still only one of each limit_1 item in a group, as there already could be, and very often is. This raises the floor, not the ceiling. Running Cyan and Blood Shoal with a group of Cyan/Blazewight-geared characters and dragon killer items is already happening, and the players who are doing it don't quit after they do. The argument that the game will be too easy just doesn't have any evidence to support it, and loads of evidence to the contrary. I don't know how we're expected to make a more well developed argument for an idea without developed feedback. Saying, "I don't think it'll work." is no better than saying, "I think it will work.". Tell us why the things we want won't work. Tell us what is wrong with the ideas we have.

People definitely quit once they've won

Thats why I quit, constantly winning gets boring.

[eddiex]

TL:DR Unlimited unique gear does not make me want to play more or longer.  It makes me want to play the same amount or less.

My issues with unlimited gear:

The major issue with unlimited gear is that it eliminates the necessity to rush.  For players like myself, the rush is one of the only exciting times playing Arctic.  It is for me one of the only points in the timeline of a player wipe that there is a competitive spirit like there used to be in this game.

But other players have even killed that experience for me.  They have opted out of the competitive spirit of the rush and the game entirely.  They want to play a game where they are not bothered, can do whatever they want when they want.  They sometimes threaten to quit if they are bothered too much because that's not why they play.

Exclusivity is also a draw for players like me.  It really is nice to have something that someone else doesn't have.  In my daily life, I like wearing clothes that I don't see other people wearing.  I like the feeling of knowing when I catch a huge fish that many people have not caught a fish that size before.  The experience has greater value to me due to exclusivity.

And yes, this will all come back to PK, because I do think that is the most exciting time in Arctic.  When something is exclusive and someone has something I want, I have to attempt to kill them to take it if I really want it that bad.  Another option is to trade something of equivalent value to them (game knowledge/other gear).

Why non-exclusive gear sucks to me:

A wipe with non-exclusive gear will have a definitive ending point for me.  I've made my set, I've killed the monsters I want to kill.  Why do I have any point of continuing?  I know I can do it all with the right group, the right prep, etc.  In fact, what's the point of even playing at all.  It would be like playing the same JRPG over and over and over again.  To me that's a waste of life.  There is nothing dynamic about that experience.  There are no question marks to that scenario.  I know what I want.  I know how to get it.  The only thing left to inject any competitiveness into the game for me in this scenario would be to attempt speed runs on end game mobs.  Is that what Arctic has come to?

Alternative proposed changes:

- Make all non-unique items unlimited and raise the load %.  This opens the game up for everyone, it removes the excuse that when I am PK'd - I cannot progress in the game. 

- Make all unique items 100% load, create a delay after decay function - when item decays it will not return to the game for a ranged period of 48-96 hours.  This decreases the chance a clan can monopolize the unique items.

- Make all unique items decay at the same time.  I know what you're gonna say, but I just killed Cyan and I only had this item for one day.  Well tough, now you know you're strong enough to kill Cyan and you know in the next few days there's going to be another rush for exclusive items.  Get out there and get some.

- Remove non-essential immortals (34 down) ability to determine whether these items are loading or not

Fix PK and make rewards for being good at it

Every change to PK over the last decade has been targeted at making it more difficult to kill someone.  This makes it even more likely for players to quit when exclusive items exist because eventually they hit their EQ wall and have no means of improving (in the games current form).  They can't kill the players with the equipment they want and they can kill all the mobiles they know.  I propose moving in the other direction.

- Improve targeted CC to prevent easy escape.  i.e. Hold Person/Monster/Para is now 100% land chance on players but only lasts 2 rounds.  Cannot be negated by AMS.

- Increase the Skill cap by improved blocking/counters.  Give characters abilities to brace for a melee characters CC or Arcane shell magic users CC - lasts 2 rounds/1 round lag/5 round cooldown.  If CC blocked, 1 additional round lag for opponent.  Text is not visible to other players so triggers are ineffective in determining when they are protected/vulnerable.

- Expand chances to fail so that escape mechanisms are not 100%. Or conversely take several rounds to channel.

- Remove the who list, Discord seems to be functional method for people to trade gear, interact with other players, find groups, seek help

- Remove hunt, it is rarely used for it's intended purpose, and more often used as a defensive get out of jail free card

Create PK Rank / Bounty system and determine effective ways of preventing abuse of the system.


Anyway, those are some of my ideas on how I think Arctic can improve.

[mikey]

Eddiex's post is well written and interesting, but as a much less knowledgeable player, who's end game is DKO and Storm's Keep (when I want to lose all my gear and 3hrs of xp), I'm on the opposite side of the fence on most of it.

The Rush: The rush seems absolutely great for the few groups that can actually compete.  Full ranks (although that might be a thing of the past) and zones actually loading gear seem great!  When I "rush" on the first day of the wipe I find no equipment, no ranks, and about 90% of the zones done. Rush day is usually terrible! I always vow not to play in the first couple of weeks, but I rolled super low willpower IRL and can't stop myself. 

Exclusivity: I understand that it's fun, but how many players should get to have this kind of fun? Only 1 sky scout on the entire mud? Everyone else should roll something else?  I get that you are saying running the same zones becomes boring once you have the desired gear, but doesn't that happen anyway?  Especially if you "win" the rush, don't you get all your exclusive items right away? And then are bored? I must be missing something or not know the way it really works.
          I do want to say, I don't necessarily feel like the most exclusive items should be no limit.  I just feel like as it is, I could run greenen every hour for the entire wipe and I wouldn't see that sword and that seems wrong.

Alternative proposed changes: Yes please! Pretty please!

Fix PK: Please no.  As a noob my experiences with pk are all the same.  A single caster comes in mass CCs most of my group, and the others die in three rounds to AoE and pets.  Because someone was bored, or I grouped with the wrong guy, or I loaded a shiney that I shouldn't have, I'm out 3hrs of xp, all of my gear, and most of my desire to play.  By the end of the pkilling days, I wasn't even fighting back.  If I toss a heal or try a bash, I feel like I might as well delete that character and hope my alts don't get highlighted as well.  I'm a big supporter of the pk on/off flag at roll, which would make it so you can/can't pick up the "exclusive" gear.

I have many horrible insights as a low tier player.  Most of the time I read these forums and feel like we aren't even playing the same game.

[eddiex]

More pk changes I'd suggest is that lagged/cc'd/sitting characters cannot be transported via mass tele or prevailing winds.

As it stands now with players being able to use two chars: all I need is a legend pal and druid and a few bashmod ranks/items on said druid to have an automatic get out of jail free card for entire group.

Making recalls/mass escapes require channeling will ensure people can actually be killed in prolonged combat.

Also, make % fumble/destroy chance on all unique gear removal. The more times it's worn and removed, the greater chance it's fumbled and destroyed. This way people can't hide their gear on alts without risking losing it. Any gear repopped in this manner would still decay when every other unique item is wiped.


Mikey. I understand your concerns with pk. There are perhaps other ways to help mitigate the losses in a situation.

- Remove xp loss from pk death entirely or pre-lvl 30. Make unlimited equipment only lootable by the person who died.

[Dafin]

I am an immigrant from one unknown marginal MUD. In my first two months in Arctic on my way to 22 level my warrior shouted for group every day, got groupped once and pkilled twice by some casters for nothing. I regret I didn't multi then because it eventually was allowed. For some reason I decided to start honest life in a new MUD. But these first two months sucked. Total waste of time.

[corey]

Eddie- They're not going to make pk easier. The playerbase is too old for the time commitment and bullshit attached. More people would quit from it than play from it.

I miss the old days too, but they're not coming back.

[Jorake]

Making it so lvl 34 and down imms can't see eq would be a huge change.

I never meant for all eq to be unlimited when I started the thread. I was basically saying the lower tier items. Easy to obtain +dam and such. 80% of weapons. Most +1stat items etc.