Game ideas

[Kir]

Oh, the joys of forumwars and textrage! Brings back memories :D

On the subject of glass canon mages, they were back in the day and they would force 12man zoning groups to innsit due to the risk vs reward - naked trash mages taking out a zoning group - it frankly sucked! These days you can just drop a healing cloud or a healing wave and more or less negate area damage (apart from tornado).
Measure tried: Sheafs were tried and discarded thankfully! now we got CL ..which is at least a better solution, but not really needed since magebombing isn't really that viable with current pk damage - I don't know if you can scale the pk dam between each class? or melee and spelldamage? to at least balance spelldamage vs healing (healing is winning atm)

Bringing back 180dam fireballing naked mages would just create 8 man mage groups walking in and doing around 800dam area on entry... seriously?? Would be a sure way to get ppl quit for sure! ..that said I love mages and would like to see them play a bigger role in groups, but I'd rather see divine spells implemented for mages and other tweaks of current spells and spell availability

I dont want naked mages. Mages require CL still. I mean I remember the wipe when Isabella was single handedly taking out 10 man groups. It forced the russians etc to quit and yes Isabella as a character was as OP as any character that ever existed. However, that wipe there was plenty of pk, and while dealing with isabella was difficult, other clans could get mages that while they werent AS powerful, they were powerful enough to kill people. There was SOOOOOOO MUCH pk that wipe and I probably got killed over 20 times in pvp battles. I hated losing those battles but I never quit BECAUSE I knew I could still have a chance at winning. I dont think I had a more enjoyable wipe in this game. In that scenario, the spell nightmare was a nuclear weapon. Every clan was able to pop nightmare and battle it out. In the current pvp setting, I cant fathom any way any clan will ever be able to kill RISE in the first 2-3 months of the game prior to us quitting. If RISE has all the top end gear, there is no way I can fathom people to kill us and I would consider myself one the foremost experts in PVP on this game. If I cant figure out a way to kill us, then I highly doubt anybody else will, nor will have the time\willingness to go to through the lengths it would take to do so.

If people want the pvp aspect to be fun, there needs to be some way for a smart\savvy players to be able to kill somebody like RISE without dedicated 5+ months of grinding. If people do not like my "buffing fireball" idea, I am ok with that. Also take into consideration that there are many ways to counter fireball so its really not as OP as it may seem. But please come up with ways that the immortals could help the current pvp situation. People cannot complain about RISE and then offer no solutions to the PK disparity outside of "please RISE dont pk us". Thats reeeaaaallly not how the game was ever meant to be played. I think if RISE piss off enough people, those people should be able to have a method to kill us. That would add diplomacy back into this game which hasnt been required since nightmare got nerfed.

[Lloth]

As the best there is, the best there was and the best there ever will be in PvP, zone knowledge, leading and soloing, I think it's safe to see PK wars are long gone and I'm glad I ended up the best

I just don't ever see this game being what it used to be. You can come up with any kind of solution and someone is going to poke a hole in it. There's no one or multiple solution that's going to bring back what Arctic was. It's evolved and moved on.  The player base mostly grew up and  as Roger Murtaugh, portrayed by the award winning actor Danny Glover once said "I'm getting too old for this shit."

While I do enjoy the enthusiasm and ideas floating around, I just don't think it's going to make any difference on how people want to play this game.

[Jorake]

You guys surpassed my pk skill long long ago. And even CORE at times uses threats or sometimes took action in order to get eq from people. It isn't just a RISE problem. And if I sit and think about it. It isn't really the time either. Because first month of wipe or whatever, everyone has groups on. Almost everyone has a group fielded 24/7 to some extent. You guys just take it to the extreme with at the very least an 8 man seemingly 24/7. Myth for example. Will have sometimes 15 or 20 people on first month of wipe. But that isn't 24/7.

Myself. There are times where I can log on for 5 hours straight or on a weekend when I am not doing anything with the kids etc. sometimes I might pop in an out all day long. Play for 2-3hours, log for an hour or 2 then play another 2-3 hours. Etc.

It comes down to the tenacity of the people involved. I just don't have it anymore. Not against a winner take all mentality. I would be more than willing to step into an arena situation.

Tenacity comes into play for counters as well. i have no inclination to sit and wait in menu and organize people like you guys do. I have no willingness to stage a well planned ambush 2-3 days in advance and try to wait for that right time. Like i said before. I just like to log when I want to log and play when I want to play and bounce. Period.

It is 100% about losing gear and power. Most players don't want to take a chance and lose the eq they spent weeks collecting. But, people do get strong enough to fight you guys. I don't buy into the "we're untouchable" idea. Someone could step into the ring with Tyson and lose 999 times out of a 1000. But there's always that 1 chance. That being said. What then? Lets say that group take you out. They get the big score. The chances of them wanting to or even being willing to put in type of time to maintain any of that is so bapting low. So it becomes not worth it.

[Kir]

You guys surpassed my pk skill long long ago. And even CORE at times uses threats or sometimes took action in order to get eq from people. It isn't just a RISE problem. And if I sit and think about it. It isn't really the time either. Because first month of wipe or whatever, everyone has groups on. Almost everyone has a group fielded 24/7 to some extent. You guys just take it to the extreme with at the very least an 8 man seemingly 24/7. Myth for example. Will have sometimes 15 or 20 people on first month of wipe. But that isn't 24/7.

Myself. There are times where I can log on for 5 hours straight or on a weekend when I am not doing anything with the kids etc. sometimes I might pop in an out all day long. Play for 2-3hours, log for an hour or 2 then play another 2-3 hours. Etc.

It comes down to the tenacity of the people involved. I just don't have it anymore. Not against a winner take all mentality. I would be more than willing to step into an arena situation.

Tenacity comes into play for counters as well. i have no inclination to sit and wait in menu and organize people like you guys do. I have no willingness to stage a well planned ambush 2-3 days in advance and try to wait for that right time. Like i said before. I just like to log when I want to log and play when I want to play and bounce. Period.

It is 100% about losing gear and power. Most players don't want to take a chance and lose the eq they spent weeks collecting. But, people do get strong enough to fight you guys. I don't buy into the "we're untouchable" idea. Someone could step into the ring with Tyson and lose 999 times out of a 1000. But there's always that 1 chance. That being said. What then? Lets say that group take you out. They get the big score. The chances of them wanting to or even being willing to put in type of time to maintain any of that is so bapting low. So it becomes not worth it.

Ok so lets say hypothetically speaking that the imms did implement some method to prevent power loss from pk death on top of the ones that already exist (legend\ranks\medal). And you didnt have to wait 3 days to ambush, you could just grab 3 friends online and go battle, what in your opinion would be ways to make the pvp more enjoyable with the lesser equipped side still having a chance at winning?

[Malthros]

I'm not sure where this turned into a RISE gangbang. The subject is Game Ideas. I also only played for 2-3 months this wipe. I quit. I've quit sooner and for longer periods of time each wipe for the last 2-3 wipes. Idk. It could be my lack of interest in exploring things. Could be because things like icewall got revamped after I had explore it. Things like qualinesti being changed into what it is now. Instead of just adding a new zone. Why keep revamping shit. Just add new shit? Quali was a good zone. Icewall was a good zone.

New Icewall is fine overall.  A few aspects of it are design decisions I'm not a fan of  since it makes exploration a massive PITA (unless you get lucky with some RNG in which case congrats) but I'm also of the mind that a zone really only should get revamped if there's something wrong with it or if you're adding to the existing zone because it's tiny and there's little to nothing there currently, like the Plains of Dust which are interesting now and I can't recall anything worthwhile about the old version.  Relearning the routes For Tarsis/Balifor/Neraka was a minor annoyance but at least everyone* had to do it.


* Aside from the imms who made those changes but I imagine if any of them rushed they weren't leading groups.

Nice post Jorake.

I have logged on 2 nights running to see both times there has been only 1 person online. Around 9 am system time maybe.

9AM UTC means most of Europe is at work and the US is asleep.  I see 15-20 on during early/afternoon for the US usually.  Sometimes more.  Occasionally less.

One of my ideas was to buff mages again, as in make mages super deadly. Mages are so under powered in this game. They difficult soloing due to lack of hp, and at lvl 10 you have to leave your group for the mage quest which is definitely challenging for newer or mid-tier players. I think as a reward for playing a "glass cannon" class that requires extra questing just to play, is that they should ACTUALLY be cannons.

The wipe when robed mages were added because mages were shit-wrecking monsters (and still died quickly under any sort of heavy damage) and they felt more like 'real' mages because of it.  They were extremely imbalanced and you had groups with 3-4 mages melt fights in several rounds but it felt closer to what one should expect a mage to do when focused on offense.  If a group says "hey we need a bunch of damage for this fight" their #1 pick should be a spelled mage unless it's a nomagic fight.  That wipe felt closest to what mage offense "should" be.

Fireball should still cap out at 10d6 or whatever (there are other AOEs that could be added at higher tiers for non-black robes while buffing theirs) but PWS should be removed from the game, with nightmare actually being a sleep effect instead of its current (unique?) super stun effect, or let free action remove/block it.  Replace PWS with Meteor Swarm, give it a setup like you cast swarm without a target it's an AOE and if you target with it then it's a multi-hit spell vs that target with the chance of splash damage to nearby (non-party) members.  A mage's best offensive spell should put granite hands to shame, not the other way around. 

For dealing with the issue of magebombs, again, PWS removal and nightmare nerf would help.  Tweak spell damage in pvp if necessary or have mages deal an additional 50% less damage to players for X rounds after casting relocate.  Mages need to deal proper damage in general and if they're "weak" in pvp but strong otherwise that'd still be an improvement over their current state.

[Anista]

But please come up with ways that the immortals could help the current pvp situation. People cannot complain about RISE and then offer no solutions to the PK disparity outside of "please RISE dont pk us". Thats reeeaaaallly not how the game was ever meant to be played. I think if RISE piss off enough people, those people should be able to have a method to kill us.

Ok so lets say hypothetically speaking that the imms did implement some method to prevent power loss from pk death on top of the ones that already exist (legend\ranks\medal). And you didnt have to wait 3 days to ambush, you could just grab 3 friends online and go battle, what in your opinion would be ways to make the pvp more enjoyable with the lesser equipped side still having a chance at winning?

I do not feel the need to moderate here, but I'd like to restate this:  Arctic is an open world "player kill" (PK) game, which allows full loot of corpses.

While the current administration supports open world PK, we do not allow 'griefing' of players after PK has occurred. I have not seen RISE or any other clan grief players in at least the past few wipes, if ever. Feel free to email any logs to anista@arcticmud.org if you have proof of violation. As long as the rules are followed, we see no reason to intervene or change anything. See HELP PK and HELP LAW.

With that out the way, the staff is open to ideas for making open world PK more enjoyable for the masses, but to be clear, "arenas" are not viewed as a suitable replacement to world PK. (We do have arena plans, but that is not our biggest priority at the current time.)

[Jorake]

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Or I wasn't clear enough. Idk.

There should be loss for pvp. There should be a gain for the winner. That IS Arctic. Arctic was pretty much built on having to have a team around you to prevail. Run your mouth? Get stomped. Kill someones buddy or unknown. Get stomped. I am not advocating to do away with pk. And I'm also not saying there shouldn't be a gain.

I'm simply saying for me personally. It's why I don't really like pk anymore. I just don't enjoy that type of play. I've said countless times "lets just go bash that bapters face into the dirt" For whatever thing. I usually settle down very shortly after but still. The sentiment is there. But the desire isn't. It could be that the broad scale competition is just more than I'm willing to put the effort in to try and handle.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. My best advice to imms would be throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. Set up an arena weekend. Setup something else. Do trial and error.

[Kir]

But please come up with ways that the immortals could help the current pvp situation. People cannot complain about RISE and then offer no solutions to the PK disparity outside of "please RISE dont pk us". Thats reeeaaaallly not how the game was ever meant to be played. I think if RISE piss off enough people, those people should be able to have a method to kill us.

Ok so lets say hypothetically speaking that the imms did implement some method to prevent power loss from pk death on top of the ones that already exist (legend\ranks\medal). And you didnt have to wait 3 days to ambush, you could just grab 3 friends online and go battle, what in your opinion would be ways to make the pvp more enjoyable with the lesser equipped side still having a chance at winning?

I do not feel the need to moderate here, but I'd like to restate this:  Arctic is an open world "player kill" (PK) game, which allows full loot of corpses.

While the current administration supports open world PK, we do not allow 'griefing' of players after PK has occurred. I have not seen RISE or any other clan grief players in at least the past few wipes, if ever. Feel free to email any logs to anista@arcticmud.org if you have proof of violation. As long as the rules are followed, we see no reason to intervene or change anything. See HELP PK and HELP LAW.

With that out the way, the staff is open to ideas for making open world PK more enjoyable for the masses, but to be clear, "arenas" are not viewed as a suitable replacement to world PK. (We do have arena plans, but that is not our biggest priority at the current time.)

I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. Or I wasn't clear enough. Idk.

There should be loss for pvp. There should be a gain for the winner. That IS Arctic. Arctic was pretty much built on having to have a team around you to prevail. Run your mouth? Get stomped. Kill someones buddy or unknown. Get stomped. I am not advocating to do away with pk. And I'm also not saying there shouldn't be a gain.

I'm simply saying for me personally. It's why I don't really like pk anymore. I just don't enjoy that type of play. I've said countless times "lets just go bash that bapters face into the dirt" For whatever thing. I usually settle down very shortly after but still. The sentiment is there. But the desire isn't. It could be that the broad scale competition is just more than I'm willing to put the effort in to try and handle.

I honestly don't know what the solution is. My best advice to imms would be throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. Set up an arena weekend. Setup something else. Do trial and error.

Ok thank you for the responses. I have a new idea that I'm going to make a new thread about in game discussion and I do not want to hijack this one.

[Lyam]

wow, so much whining and nothing to do with the topic! (hate rise! die rise, die!)

unlimited eq and lowering the load %... such a horrible idea.. this was tried once before on the less unique items and it absolutely sucked donkey balls. the load % were so low you would spend 3 days spamming a zone to load the item just to have it decay 2weeks later.. yeah no thanks.. its bad enough now days spamming a zone for 2days to load that badass unique item. increasing the limit on items will just make a clan have more of said items.. sure another clan might be able to get in and load some, but the badass items will get spammed by 1 or 2 clans still leaving castoffs to the small clans... if there was some way to police that a clan only have 1 of the items... then sure increase the limits otherwise you gonna see shld/core/rise running around with multiple tanks and casters wearing the exact same eq, etc, etc

the norent decay i would love, as i work away for a week at a time so can only phone log to check decays, but again you would get people loading the best eq in the game and then deeprenting, only logging every now and then to stock up on coins. but asking for this is unrealistic.. maybe lower the rent decay timers?? or kick them in once a person hasnt logged on for a week?? so .5% rent decay for a week, then increase the rent decay each week they are not active, and by active i dont mean logging on and innsitting for 5mins.. no idea on how hard this would be to code or implement but im guessing it would be near impossible

pk debate.. ppl love pk or hate it.. rise have toned down their pk a lot since they formed.. dont enjoy the win at all costs or giving a clan a week or 2 to regear just to smash them again.. yay for you, you smashed a clan... pat yourselves on the back for a good job in loading the right eq and executing the right plan to win the fight, now back off and let the poor clan re-eq enough to actually give you a fight.. you already looted all their good eq so they are running around trying to load something half decent... for them to get to anywhere near an even keel, they will need a lot more than shop bought enchanted weapons... yeah you give them peace for 2weeks.. to what?? spam naked zones for 2weeks?? yay for you to then beat up on them again to lose maybe their 1 good item they managed to load in that 2weeks.. you all talk about "the old days".. well back then clans didnt beat up on a person soloing.. i remember bsp actually inviting vespin into their group cause he was running around solo... that is how it should be... wild and bsp would organise a spot to fight on the day.. not spend 2weeks preping then to call the other clan bitches cause they wouldnt fight (this stuff happened later on).. sure there were ambushes and other shit, but normally each clan would let the other to regroup and re-eq.. back then 2weeks was enough cause not many ppl led the zones so could repop stuff and everyone had no lives then so they could zone 18hrs a day to get back on track.. dont know how to fix this, but regular tournies would be a good way to show ppl your strength with prizes for winners.. an arena where you can battle and the leaders pick an item of equal value to "bet" on the outcome.. or can just not be dicks and give ppl more time to recover when you do pk them or not loot everything, just take a couple of items, leave them some of their badass items that is!.. yes that would be taking away an aspect of the game you love, but then it might work out in the long term that ppl would be more willing to fight you.

reincarnations: love it, but then i stopped at r4... kinda wanted to do another but that was just for the extra rank points not for the stats.. reincarnation has made a lot of items redundant or the +stats on them which i think is a bad thing.. now you have tanks being 28str 28dex 28con, casters being 28int 28wis and half decent con so they dont really need the stats, they are using items for the bonuses (+dam, +slots, etc) reducing the stat bonus per each reincarnation would help this.. i dont know make it every 2nd reincarnation give you a +1stat, not every reincarnation giving you +2stat.  i also havent noticed that saves have really improved.. an r6 char gets held/stunned/etc just as much as r0.. maybe the saves part needs to be looked at

[Jorquin]

Objectively, RISE have been a lot less murderous the last few wipes. In fact, I'd say they've been pretty reasonable.

There's something I never thought I'd say...

[Malthros]

the norent decay i would love, as i work away for a week at a time so can only phone log to check decays, but again you would get people loading the best eq in the game and then deeprenting, only logging every now and then to stock up on coins. but asking for this is unrealistic.. maybe lower the rent decay timers?? or kick them in once a person hasnt logged on for a week?? so .5% rent decay for a week, then increase the rent decay each week they are not active, and by active i dont mean logging on and innsitting for 5mins.. no idea on how hard this would be to code or implement but im guessing it would be near impossible

IMO, rent decay should be exponential, maybe affected offset by high amounts of activity on a character to some degree.  IE:  If you don't log in for 7 days you've built up X decay on gear, 8 days is 1.5X, 10 days is 5X...etc.  Logging in for 30 seconds wouldn't reset it but being online for awhile and killing some stuff (clear a high lvl zone or w/e) would.  Coding resources are likely tied up on higher impact/priority tasks than rewriting the code for renting.

Then remove rent decay for mid tier gear and lower (this seems to be in place for a bunch of stuff atm anyways) and all nolim items because is anyone going to care if someone rents for 2 months and has a bunch of clear crystal gear or a class set?  No, but that dragonlance or lim 1-2 elite gear they have should rent decay far faster than if they were playing regularly.

[Tajs]

Oh and while I remember it - bringing back +skill ranks would be great!
+5 rescue for a maintank is like +5conc for a healer - I just don't see why it isn't an option??
Not to mention +bash, kick, backstab, charge, assail etc etc before legend ranks

PS: And remove spell mod ranks or make it reaaaaaaaaaally expensive - 15rp or so ( higher chance of failing a save is too strong a bonus compared to what it cost) - keep spell damage and penetration

[el conquistador]

Oh and while I remember it - bringing back +skill ranks would be great!
+5 rescue for a maintank is like +5conc for a healer - I just don't see why it isn't an option??
Not to mention +bash, kick, backstab, charge, assail etc etc before legend ranks

PS: And remove spell mod ranks or make it reaaaaaaaaaally expensive - 15rp or so ( higher chance of failing a save is too strong a bonus compared to what it cost) - keep spell damage and penetration

this one please.  one fight this wipe - fail rescue x2, fail breach x2, give up and let the cleric tank the fight.

how can that happen to a legendary barb?  26+ dex btw.

[khuran10]

the norent decay i would love, as i work away for a week at a time so can only phone log to check decays, but again you would get people loading the best eq in the game and then deeprenting, only logging every now and then to stock up on coins. but asking for this is unrealistic.. maybe lower the rent decay timers?? or kick them in once a person hasnt logged on for a week?? so .5% rent decay for a week, then increase the rent decay each week they are not active, and by active i dont mean logging on and innsitting for 5mins.. no idea on how hard this would be to code or implement but im guessing it would be near impossible

IMO, rent decay should be exponential, maybe affected offset by high amounts of activity on a character to some degree.  IE:  If you don't log in for 7 days you've built up X decay on gear, 8 days is 1.5X, 10 days is 5X...etc.  Logging in for 30 seconds wouldn't reset it but being online for awhile and killing some stuff (clear a high lvl zone or w/e) would.  Coding resources are likely tied up on higher impact/priority tasks than rewriting the code for renting.

Then remove rent decay for mid tier gear and lower (this seems to be in place for a bunch of stuff atm anyways) and all nolim items because is anyone going to care if someone rents for 2 months and has a bunch of clear crystal gear or a class set?  No, but that dragonlance or lim 1-2 elite gear they have should rent decay far faster than if they were playing regularly.

Agree, the longer limit 1-2 items stay rented, the faster they should decay.  I remember early this wipe some people were deep renting the Wymslayer.  You know who you are.

[Malthros]

Oh and while I remember it - bringing back +skill ranks would be great!
+5 rescue for a maintank is like +5conc for a healer - I just don't see why it isn't an option??
Not to mention +bash, kick, backstab, charge, assail etc etc before legend ranks

PS: And remove spell mod ranks or make it reaaaaaaaaaally expensive - 15rp or so ( higher chance of failing a save is too strong a bonus compared to what it cost) - keep spell damage and penetration

this one please.  one fight this wipe - fail rescue x2, fail breach x2, give up and let the cleric tank the fight.

how can that happen to a legendary barb?  26+ dex btw.

How can it happen?  Because breach is buggy and awful while rescue rng is a cruel mistress.

Replace breach with an aoe taunt (give it a cool down of a few tics). Or at least give failed breach zero lag.