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Has this thread been hijacked by nonsense?

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Yes, option 2 was really just to throw in a little extra
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Author Topic: Game ideas  (Read 8651 times)

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Kir

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2020, 12:20:05 AM »
And we're back. I'm not flaming RISE, I'm saying that RISE's attitude and behavior was the reason pk got changed. That's not an opinion, that is a fact. I don't care that RISE being better at pk than I am any more than I care that he guy I pay to do fix my sink is a better plumber than I am. You are under the misapprehension that people give a shit that you're better at something they don't like to do... They don't. I'm doing fine in life, and it's because I don't waste my time trying to get good at something that is ultimately worthless to me. Arctic is not based off of PvP, and PvP already went away. That's why you quit, remember? I'm not trying to get revenge on RISE for anything, because RISE has never really wronged me personally. I'm trying to get you to realize that you shot yourself in the face with your attitude and behavior, and have been crying that your face hurts EVER SINCE. You ruined pk. You brought about the change you hate so much. The reason none of your ideas have been implemented, or even brought up by the staff, is because no one cares to work with your childish ass anymore. They tried, and you swung around your big text dick, so they cut it off. It's you that needs to man up and point that finger in the mirror, because all your problems are your own fault.

Bro, you keep saying the same retarded shit. You dont understand that pk is at the heart of this game and the only reason you can play it is because we are gracious enough not to pk you. Thats why are you such a bapting idiot. And pk got turned off not because RISE abused it. PK got turned off because Jorquin made an emotional decision when we pked his friend's bot squad while they were exploring the zone he created. Way more people quit because pk was turned off than because of RISE. Have you seen Dennis or Trucker Joe on mud since pk was turned off? Those guys and everybody like them are gone... The people RISE fought in pvp battles, wilds, core, etc all played this wipe. Again, you blame us for "running off the competition". The same players who played 10 years ago still play. So obviously we didnt run them off lol. But congrats, when your friends want to know why they are being pked from now on we are going to refer them to this thread. I was the only person in Rise who tried to help you. Im not gonna help you anymore lol, have fun dealing with xellos with his gloves off.

George

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #106 on: November 15, 2020, 12:35:34 AM »
Regardless of why you think pk got turned off to begin with, the administration has changed since then, and, for the most part... It's still off. If it weren't, you'd still be going around stomping people who can't fight back, as well as people who have no interest in fight back. PK damage is literally ONE command away from being changed back. One command. One. Simple. Command. Yes, a few people quit because pk was turned off, but, more people came back because pk was turned off. If PK were the "heart of this game", when it got turned off, the game would have died. It didn't. The number of active players at ALL times of the day went up, and stayed up throughout the rest of the wipe. Say that out loud to yourself and see if you can still think that the game is based off PvP.

Also, in regards to your baseless, empty threat... Who are my friends? Who am I? You keep thinking that I'm emotionally invested in your failure, but, I'm not. I've been zoning with everyone, including RISE, for years. I was just trying to make you see that, if you want things to change, you're going to have to man up and admit that you are the reason it's ruined. Everything about everything you say makes it quite clear that, if things change back, you're going to go back to doing exactly what you were doing when you got smashed last time. You talk about Xellos with his gloves off, like anyone cares or is scared of that. No one does, and you guys will get bored and quit, just like you do every wipe, because you care about an aspect of the game far more than anyone else does. You have nothing to threaten anyone with, stop trying to act so big and tough. No one cares about your ego.

Kir

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #107 on: November 15, 2020, 12:45:59 AM »
Regardless of why you think pk got turned off to begin with, the administration has changed since then, and, for the most part... It's still off. If it weren't, you'd still be going around stomping people who can't fight back, as well as people who have no interest in fight back. PK damage is literally ONE command away from being changed back. One command. One. Simple. Command. Yes, a few people quit because pk was turned off, but, more people came back because pk was turned off. If PK were the "heart of this game", when it got turned off, the game would have died. It didn't. The number of active players at ALL times of the day went up, and stayed up throughout the rest of the wipe. Say that out loud to yourself and see if you can still think that the game is based off PvP.

Also, in regards to your baseless, empty threat... Who are my friends? Who am I? You keep thinking that I'm emotionally invested in your failure, but, I'm not. I've been zoning with everyone, including RISE, for years. I was just trying to make you see that, if you want things to change, you're going to have to man up and admit that you are the reason it's ruined. Everything about everything you say makes it quite clear that, if things change back, you're going to go back to doing exactly what you were doing when you got smashed last time. You talk about Xellos with his gloves off, like anyone cares or is scared of that. No one does, and you guys will get bored and quit, just like you do every wipe, because you care about an aspect of the game far more than anyone else does. You have nothing to threaten anyone with, stop trying to act so big and tough. No one cares about your ego.

Ok. Just remember that you brought this upon yourself.

Bryton

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2020, 01:52:02 AM »
Also, in regards to your baseless, empty threat... Who are my friends? Who am I? You keep thinking that I'm emotionally invested in your failure, but, I'm not. I've been zoning with everyone, including RISE, for years. I was just trying to make you see that, if you want things to change, you're going to have to man up and admit that you are the reason it's ruined. Everything about everything you say makes it quite clear that, if things change back, you're going to go back to doing exactly what you were doing when you got smashed last time. You talk about Xellos with his gloves off, like anyone cares or is scared of that. No one does, and you guys will get bored and quit, just like you do every wipe, because you care about an aspect of the game far more than anyone else does. You have nothing to threaten anyone with, stop trying to act so big and tough. No one cares about your ego.

George is 100% Nate, I'd come back to pk Nate. Is MYTH still a thing ?

khuran10

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #109 on: November 15, 2020, 03:50:00 AM »

....As soon as people started logging on to start that process, RISE came in and butchered them....    <----1

If there's another reason, please, let us know, because this is what basically every single person who isn't in RISE thinks.  <----2

1. Wow! As people logged on RISE came in and butchered them? Jeez, someone feels super important.... hero cookie for you then, curious Geroge!
2. Never discuss religion or politics, in this case, we can add whatever you're spouting to the list because opinions and viewpoints are never ending.  Besides, we have kids and lives too! ;) (and 3 maids to boot!)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 03:55:07 AM by khuran10 »

khuran10

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2020, 04:01:09 AM »
You talk about Xellos with his gloves off, like anyone cares or is scared of that. No one does, and you guys will get bored and quit, just like you do every wipe, because you care about an aspect of the game far more than anyone else does. You have nothing to threaten anyone with, stop trying to act so big and tough. No one cares about your ego.

Talk is cheap, shout your characters at the start of the wipe if you really don't care. :P 

reed23

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2020, 04:21:18 AM »
I find it funny how many posts on here are discrediting RISE early wipe dominance due to "playing 24/7" and that everyone else has "real jobs, families, etc."

I remember that the majority of the early rush nights CORE literally had 30-40 characters on.  We had 10-16. 

We've bent over backwards the last 5 years to prevent non stop crying, but at the looks of this thread, there is still a lot of crying and excuses being thrown around.

el conquistador

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #112 on: November 15, 2020, 04:47:55 AM »
i just dont think pvp is very good in arctic. 

you either have ambush style pvp where the attacking side typically brings overwhelming force to an unsuspecting target who is usually dead before they can take any action or you have arranged pvp with duels or team vs team.

ambush style does add an element of danger to the game which can be exciting but with the way power in this game works, most players dont have any chance at all of ever fighting back.  if i had decided to attack some rise character this wipe, even if i somehow caught one alone, most of them could probably afk for the first 3 rounds while i hit them with everything i had and they would still come back and kill me instead. 
and the victim just loses way too much.  losing gear that took weeks to put together because some asshole is bored is not a game that very many of us want to play anymore.  arctic has definitely lost many players from this and will lose more if it returns.

and arranged pvp just seems boring.  i can remember some tournament years ago where i entered my newbie druid and fought another druid and we just each spammed call lightning at each other.  even arranged group vs group is usually casters spamming area to find out which team has better luck with saves.   boring.

Kir

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #113 on: November 15, 2020, 06:00:42 AM »
i just dont think pvp is very good in arctic. 

you either have ambush style pvp where the attacking side typically brings overwhelming force to an unsuspecting target who is usually dead before they can take any action or you have arranged pvp with duels or team vs team.

ambush style does add an element of danger to the game which can be exciting but with the way power in this game works, most players dont have any chance at all of ever fighting back.  if i had decided to attack some rise character this wipe, even if i somehow caught one alone, most of them could probably afk for the first 3 rounds while i hit them with everything i had and they would still come back and kill me instead. 
and the victim just loses way too much.  losing gear that took weeks to put together because some asshole is bored is not a game that very many of us want to play anymore.  arctic has definitely lost many players from this and will lose more if it returns.

and arranged pvp just seems boring.  i can remember some tournament years ago where i entered my newbie druid and fought another druid and we just each spammed call lightning at each other.  even arranged group vs group is usually casters spamming area to find out which team has better luck with saves.   boring.

I agree with your post. As it is now, the under-geared\lower level guys have zero chance of killing a clan that has better gear. What can we do to help those mid-tier casual players to be able to actually kill a stacked super clan?

One of my ideas was to buff mages again, as in make mages super deadly. Mages are so under powered in this game. They difficult soloing due to lack of hp, and at lvl 10 you have to leave your group for the mage quest which is definitely challenging for newer or mid-tier players. I think as a reward for playing a "glass cannon" class that requires extra questing just to play, is that they should ACTUALLY be cannons.

One change to mages I propose is to buff fireball (and coldsnap). In the books, Raistlin owns people with fireball. It is not some shit spell, when he casts it, people melt. I like the fact that its 3rd circle and it should stay that way but I think the damage should be something like caster_level * 1d6. That way a lvl 30 mage is fireballing for 30-180 prior to buffs or spell mod and enemy saving throws.

This would allow for casual clans who cant spam cyan for pws to still have a fighting chance, especially in ambushes. Imagine a RISE 8 man doin whatever PvE and BROG clan walks in with a pk anbush group with a few non legend superb bashers and non legend mages (all actually being glass_cannons like the class was meant to be) and entry area. In that scenario you dont need the legend\cyan grind to be pvp viable. That group could totally smash anybody under the right circumstances. Us Rise would actually have something to fear and wouldn't be able to war the entire mud without in game consequences (im not talkin about immortal intervention).

The major advantage of this change would that legend would no longer be required for pk. Also it would allow for people to roll "unknowns" like the old days and create an "unknown" ambush group. That used to be a great way to turn the tide of clan wars 15 years ago.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:04:54 AM by Kir »

Lloth

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #114 on: November 15, 2020, 06:20:32 AM »
While I'm all for buffing mages, something like that would undoubtedly result in all PK battles being  5-6 mages and a basher and healing class. That ambush scenario would work once or twice and then the clan who got demolished by mages would just make their own group of mages and all fights would just be swapping casting level gear back and forth.

The damage fireball does isn't necessarily bad, but I think it should be s focused spell and possibly chance to ignite the targets. Also, a comp casted cold snap could have a chance to hold person someone for 1-3 rounds.


I know that's not what anyone wants to talk about......I just got excited when someone mentioned buffing mages!  And I just started to reread Time of the Twins this evening.

Caine

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #115 on: November 15, 2020, 06:34:25 AM »
Let me give some of my thoughts from a Myth player's standpoint.

The majority of our players, to my knowledge, play only for the PvE aspect. Personally, I get the most enjoyment out of exploring new zones, because nobody (save maybe the creators) really knows what shinies or interesting fights lie inside when it is newly added. Old players won't have any walkthroughs stashed away for new zones like they might for older ones - it's new content, after all. If I see someone with a shiny item from a new zone, I usually appreciate that they have dabbled in the zone very recently, and not just been handed a guide from some high imm's info vault from 15 years ago.

Now what makes these new zones so enjoyable? Sure, it can be fun to solve puzzles, but what players are really going to remember are the loads. Oh boy the loads. If they're trash, no one is going to want to run your zone more than a handful of times at most. No offense to the creators, but there is a reason why Shadow Isles and Rigitt are run so much now compared to zones like Farholm/Trade or other low zones. When was the last time anyone here visited Sandy Cove?

There is a balance between puzzle/zone difficulty and gear loads. If I'm solving something as tricky as Mora or Alma then i'd sure as hell hope that it gives me something nice. And in low or mid zones, that just isnt the case most of the time. I solved a puzzle in a certain zone this wipe and all I got was a ring that was a light! Nice, but not something worth repeated visits to a zone for. This of course is also part of the problem. The expectation of good rewards is what kept me running certain zones instead of others. Over and over and over. I ran Shadow Isles 20 times looking for a certain robe, that I may not have gotten, but knowing that I could potentially get it next run kept me going back.

PK is currently almost nonexistent. This means that almost everyone in this thread that is campaigning for limited PK is very close to the type of player I just described. They explore zones, solve puzzles, and find their own shinies, perhaps get something from the world merchant every once in a while, and slowly work their way up. It is also clear from past discussions that many of these players who spend their hours solving a puzzle or loading a good set of items just do not have the tolerance anymore to put up with losing it all in a very short time. Even without PK, many players in Myth just quit for a while if they lose their gear. We just had one person almost quit because they lost their gear in a foom (only to be saved by a friendly imm) and another person who quit shortly thereafter after falling into a DT.

For all intents and purposes, at least from what I have seen in Myth, the gear loss and associated time investment to get it back is what causes these people to quit. The way they died would have been irrelevant, whether by PK or by their own fault.

If there was some way to limit gear loss on death (and maybe even rank/XP loss with respect to PK), that might stop people from quitting entirely if PK were reintroduced and they were to be killed. One suggestion I thought of was perhaps making an ATTUNED version of current class sets that could persist through death. There would have to be some brainstorming like how to acquire these items or if any progression would be needed like current medals (or perhaps if they would just function like normal set pieces with no stats right out of the box). They could even mesh with current "real" set items, so if you got lucky and found a 2damroll blue phoenix helm, you could wear it with 3 attuned armor and it could give you the 4-piece bonus. Then if you decayed the real piece you could just retrieve your no-stat attuned helm to get back to 4 piece bonus, and off you go again. Maybe debuff the set bonuses slightly and buff the individual "real" Set pieces so that they couldn't roll blank for stats to facilitate having a reason to keep popping them.
In this way people can still kill you but you'll always have something to fall back on. This also solves the issue of people wanting to have a serviceable set without having to grind zones for a few hours before being zone ready.

Only issue I really see with this is the way of the Trash Mage. You could add a cooldown like the "life force sags" messaging that could block the attuned items from giving CL as a set bonus for X period after a death if this were an issue, but seeing as how mages can already reach 28 CL solely from major city shop gear and ranks, I don't know if this is as much of a problem as I believe it to be.

Another issue is how you would get people to continue zoning when gear is less of an issue. Brainstorming the ramifications would definitely be required.

I went on a little too long I suppose, but let me know what you think. Thoughts welcomed. Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 15, 2020, 06:48:16 AM by Caine »

Tajs

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #116 on: November 15, 2020, 11:13:31 AM »
Oh, the joys of forumwars and textrage! Brings back memories :D

On the subject of glass canon mages, they were back in the day and they would force 12man zoning groups to innsit due to the risk vs reward - naked trash mages taking out a zoning group - it frankly sucked! These days you can just drop a healing cloud or a healing wave and more or less negate area damage (apart from tornado).
Measure tried: Sheafs were tried and discarded thankfully! now we got CL ..which is at least a better solution, but not really needed since magebombing isn't really that viable with current pk damage - I don't know if you can scale the pk dam between each class? or melee and spelldamage? to at least balance spelldamage vs healing (healing is winning atm)

Bringing back 180dam fireballing naked mages would just create 8 man mage groups walking in and doing around 800dam area on entry... seriously?? Would be a sure way to get ppl quit for sure! ..that said I love mages and would like to see them play a bigger role in groups, but I'd rather see divine spells implemented for mages and other tweaks of current spells and spell availability

Jorake

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #117 on: November 15, 2020, 02:12:36 PM »
One change I would like to see and have enjoyed on other muds I've played. Visible damage! It's so much fun seeing how much damage you actually do. Specifically for spells.

Alecto

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #118 on: November 15, 2020, 02:52:15 PM »
Wow. So much post! So many anger!

To take this back to the original ideas:

Single-stats objects = unlimited: I have no problem with this, but they SHOULD decay with about a 2 week timer in that case. Just run the zone again and pop a new one...running Den of Thieves once every two weeks is not a huge inconvenience.

Free rent: No. If you decide to take 2 weeks off then you should drop the shit in your inventory. It is not that hard to coin. Run CT. Like Dave Ramsey says: act your WAGE - if you can't afford it, don't keep it.

Gear decay - this is the tricky one, and I am not party to the changes Kholos and Anista have planned, but the items that are limit 4 or less should decay, and players should have a chance to load them when they run zones. How you balance making sure SOMETHING worth having loads when you run Pax while also not spending 100% of your time just chasing decays is difficult.

Spell loads - I agree with some of this. I had a rank 25 druid 8 days into the wipe, then quit playing it because of spell load issues. All spell required for legend should be at least 50% load rate on those mobs. Spells that aren't required for legend can be lower: at some point you need to realize that not everyone is going to need "Zombie Double" (ok, maybe no one...). A few people are on a quest to get every spell, for their own satisfaction - that group is pretty small, maybe 3 people, and making significant changes to appease those three seems like timely poorly spent by an overstretched staff.

Multiplaying - I have always thought the rules on this should change to reflect the reality of the game and the average number of players logging per hour. The first 6 months of the wipe should be a VERY strict 2 person limit. However, as the ennui kicks in and people leave the game, and average players online drops below 20 per hour the limit should be relaxed to 4. If AVERAGE players online drops to below 10 there should no longer be a limit to how many multis can be played, with the understanding that if that brings a bunch of people back and the average goes back up to 20 per hour it should be reduced to 4 again. That sort of stuff can be tricky to enforce, but it should reflect the reality of the game.

Wipes - I have suggested this before. I think Arctic should wipe twice per year. The "Labor Day" wipe is a normal wipe which runs 9 months, the "Memorial Day" wipe would be a chaos wipe where all new content gets put into the game to beta test, all pk and multi limits are removed, and new ideas for game play are tested out. People play less during the summer (when there is not a global pandemic, that is) and that would allow a streamlining for zone creation timetables, etc. while also letting Kholos and Anista play with the dials a little bit. It would also let the pk fans finally have the Arctic from the 90s back, for about 3 months a year. If you don't want to play during that time, no problem, go grill some steaks and enjoy the great outdoors!

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
valete omnes!
Alecto

eddiex

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Re: Game ideas
« Reply #119 on: November 15, 2020, 05:19:33 PM »
To avoid trash mage brigades but improve the damage it's simple. This can even be applied to other area casters as well.

Add group class diversity bonus/penalty. The more diverse group the greater the bonus effects. The more homogeneous makes negative penalties.