pwipe date?

[Gnua]

For some historical context:

At some point we removed tons of item limits and tinkered with load % downward...
I remember there was backlash from it, though. People didn’t like everyone running around in an armaboro set with mithril bracelets and having 80%-90% of the power of more hardcore players. Maybe there was more trash PK? Maybe it made better individual items feel less valuable? I’m sure there was some reason we shifted backward, but I have trouble remembering now.

I remember this too.  I think the objection was that people only brought unlimited gear to pk.  the unlimited 4 piece class sets we had last wipe also filled this "everyone can fly and be no charm" niche and i dont think it created a trash pk problem.  as far as i understand, the problem with class sets was that the 6 piece set had a limited piece that made it so powerful that the gear eventually wound up on the top clans rather than the casual player. 

[Jorake]

Those were the days huh. Belly skewers and spiked copper plates for everyone! I also loved that time. Back then CT was a daily sometimes 2 times a day thing for me. Small time. And snagging a granite bracer every so often was a huge deal. Made you want to keep playing to see how much you had improved and to try to find other stuff. Also, handing out a +dam of any type to group mates felt awesome. Made them want to log more as well.

Terk for overlord!

[el conquistador]

i have heard people talk about that wipe like it was some kind of disaster.  but i loved it!  one of my favorite arctic wipes for sure. 

[Malthros]

For some historical context:

At some point we removed tons of item limits and tinkered with load % downward. Personally, I loved this approach, because you could slowly build up reserves of items and you would find stuff in zones constantly, even if you didn’t expect it. Once items decayed you’d generally have a replacement if you were active which you could store in the vault.

I remember there was backlash from it, though. People didn’t like everyone running around in an armaboro set with mithril bracelets and having 80%-90% of the power of more hardcore players. Maybe there was more trash PK? Maybe it made better individual items feel less valuable? I’m sure there was some reason we shifted backward, but I have trouble remembering now.

I generally think that there should be readily accessible paths for solo players to get to 80-90% of the hardest core players (if that exists anymore), so they can do zones casually and not have to worry about gear so much. I’ll admit that this was a bias to my preferred play style, and at this point in my life I can’t really see being able to play again. Any game I can’t accomplish the majority of daily activities within 30 minutes during the week and an hour to two on the weekends is a challenge to work into modern life.

I agree with this.  Loading a bunch of lim 1-2 items and having a ton of +dam or heals or a metric shitload of mental_acuity to endlessly spam* elite spells on a nobash orbed mage, and so forth, are awesome and when people hit those points they make an impact in their groups and the rest of the MUD.

But if a clan is zoning for dozens of hours a week I see zero issue with them having a bunch of people with 5-6 +dam, a dozen or so heals, and so forth allowing them to run most zones.  Could that group kill Cyan?  Maybe.  Would they have a hell of a time compared to that elite killdozer squad?  Hell no.  Is it better than them having 2-3 dam, 7-8 heals, and taking twice as long to clear less zones?  No.  Even back when Arctic and MUDs in general were popular and active games the whole "I zoned for hours and I got was this lousy repair bill" issue with lack of drops and progress killed interest as much as any win-at-all-costs-make-them-quit clan wars.


* assuming this doesn't have some cap that only imms and imm friends know about.  I assume it does cap though because a 100% mental acuity mage would be ridiculous (and I want one).

[oom]

Some thoughts...

I don't think class sets were so powerful they ended up in the hands of top end clans... Even in MYTH last wipe the only people who really chased class sets were the more casual players. I think I used the shaman 4 piece set a lot but that's mostly because the shaman eq in this game is pretty much doesn't exist.

As far as nerfing any easy to load +dam and making it unlimited .. why? why nerf things?

I think the decay thing has a fine line. Without pk the only real competition in this game is loading limited items and the decay system keeps that going. Even for really casual players the rush of loading something cool is what keeps many of them hooked. I could see something like increasing the decay timers a bit. It seems like 2 weeks or so is kind of the standard amount of time for most items to decay. I'd be fine with making it 3, I think that would alleviate a lot of decay chasing. I would also be in favor of making items unlimited but decay fast. Even unique items. Have one dragon orb that's real and lasts 3 weeks - 1 month and also have an unlimited one load 5% of the time that lasts for 1 week, just make it obvious in the description/lore. That lets people build a set that lasts a bit longer than currently and also allows for people to get lucky with fun items that don't last long but are constantly being replaced with other fun items.

Back to nerfs.. If there is one thing the community universally hates it's nerfs. The 2hander nerf was a mistake, admit it, revert them all and move on from it. Honestly, I'd revert the nerfs of pretty much everything this wipe. Healing % done items are pretty much a joke, 2% on stuff that used to be 8-10... And of course there is a ring in a new zone that can be loaded in under a minute, killing no mobs, that can be +10%, maybe it's 8, I don't remember for sure. It just doesn't make sense to me... Why was healing done % so overpowered? Just remove it entirely and put in some real shaman gear if healing done is now useless.

What's up with class sets by the way? People loved them, why were they removed, why can't we get some form of communication about it at least?

And while I'm at it. Reincarnation is pretty cool. What's not cool is having 6 chars online in a clan and the biggest group size is 2 because neutral, goodies, and evils can't really xp together very well. If the mud is going to transition into a long xp grind maybe we need to ditch xp bonus based on align and just let everyone get about 80% of what the current opposite align xp bonus is right now. To help with this, ditch the faith system. It was cool back in the day, it has a little bit of nostalgia. Currently all it does it impose a punishment on anyone foolish enough to forget to cast a spell when they log on. The fact that legend dk's are auto impune is kind of an acknowledgement of the fact that the whole thing is more of annoying annoyance than something that adds to the game. All DK's always impune. All paladin's always perfect faith. Boom!

Back to the original question posed.

Can we get some wipe info? I don't think anyone expects an exact date but maybe something like letting us know it won't be until spring or whatever would be cool. I don't really want to reincarnate 2 more times and get burnt out right before a wipe announcement and I don't want to avoid playing for 2 years because I'm waiting for the wipe either.  Could we at least get a "hey we know we usually wipe in like september and that was a couple of months ago, we're probably not wiping until xxx date because yyy is in the works and we want to get that done first" or maybe a "because reincarnation is supposed to be a multi-year grind of perfecting your character wipes are now 3 years long" I don't know.. you answered that guys question about saving spells!

[Willoe]

"Back to nerfs.. If there is one thing the community universally hates it's nerfs. The 2hander nerf was a mistake, admit it, revert them all and move on from it. Honestly, I'd revert the nerfs of pretty much everything this wipe. Healing % done items are pretty much a joke, 2% on stuff that used to be 8-10... And of course there is a ring in a new zone that can be loaded in under a minute, killing no mobs, that can be +10%, maybe it's 8, I don't remember for sure. It just doesn't make sense to me... Why was healing done % so overpowered? Just remove it entirely and put in some real shaman gear if healing done is now useless.

What's up with class sets by the way? People loved them, why were they removed, why can't we get some form of communication about it at least?

And while I'm at it. Reincarnation is pretty cool. What's not cool is having 6 chars online in a clan and the biggest group size is 2 because neutral, goodies, and evils can't really xp together very well. If the mud is going to transition into a long xp grind maybe we need to ditch xp bonus based on align and just let everyone get about 80% of what the current opposite align xp bonus is right now. To help with this, ditch the faith system. It was cool back in the day, it has a little bit of nostalgia. Currently all it does it impose a punishment on anyone foolish enough to forget to cast a spell when they log on. The fact that legend dk's are auto impune is kind of an acknowledgement of the fact that the whole thing is more of annoying annoyance than something that adds to the game. All DK's always impune. All paladin's always perfect faith. Boom!"

Agreed.

Would love to hear some thoughts from our administration on this. The player base is giving some awesome feedback here!

Ilya

[Gnua]

Some thoughts...

I don't think class sets were so powerful they ended up in the hands of top end clans... Even in MYTH last wipe the only people who really chased class sets were the more casual players. I think I used the shaman 4 piece set a lot but that's mostly because the shaman eq in this game is pretty much doesn't exist.

the 6 piece set was so overpowered (and limited) that only the top shamans could hang on to it (kind of like the ring of finest silver).  the guy who soloed mystic king wanted it so much, that when i gave my "final piece" to him, he gave me a mindshield item and popped me the mindshield over 3x after it decayed.  it was crazy that the shaman set was so elite and limited loaded in a soloable zone. the unlimited 4 piece felt like it was appropriate for the casual player. limited gear tends to trickle up to the top clans.

And while I'm at it. Reincarnation is pretty cool. What's not cool is having 6 chars online in a clan and the biggest group size is 2 because neutral, goodies, and evils can't really xp together very
well. If the mud is going to transition into a long xp grind maybe we need to ditch xp bonus based on align and just let everyone get about 80% of what the current opposite align xp bonus is

the alignment penalty used to not matter once you hit 30 because people were ranking, but now it seems like a major group deterrent

the faith system...Currently all it does it impose a punishment on anyone foolish enough to forget to cast a spell when they log on.

the biggest problem for me was that after dying, i could not cast it right away because i wasnt memmed and by the time i had bought a fly, a recall, a milky, a shield, slept for a summon, and memmed i might have forgotten all about the need to ri or died again in the rush to loot the corpse before the corpse decayed.  could reincarnated corpses last longer maybe? or maybe impunity ri could outlive death?

Can we get some wipe info? I don't think anyone expects an exact date but maybe something like letting us know it won't be until spring or whatever would be cool. I don't really want to reincarnate 2 more times and get burnt out right before a wipe announcement and I don't want to avoid playing for 2 years because I'm waiting for the wipe either.

would something like: "we definitely wont be wiping for 3 months but after that we cannot say one way or another because we are very busy" help?

[oom]

Rich, I sometimes feel like we somehow played entirely different games last wipe.

We certainly remember it differently anyway.

[el conquistador]

a pwipe doesnt Have to wait until all of the new stuff is ready does it?  is there any real reason for a wipe to be connected to in-game changes at all?
i would like to see a pwipe scheduled for every year to keep things fresh and interesting for the players.  every january 1st maybe.  and then just put in the changes when they are ready as was done with reincarnation this wipe.

no one wants to play hard in the last month before pwipe because all of your progress is about to be erased.  but the problem with unscheduled wipes is that i have suspected that it is about to happen since september.  which has kept me from playing very much for 3+ months.

[Gnua]

but the problem with unscheduled wipes is that i have suspected that it is about to happen since september.  which has kept me from playing very much for 3+ months.

would it help if someone said something along the lines of: "we dont know when the wipe will be but we know for sure it wont be in the next three months"

[Caine]

It would definitely help a lot of folks, including myself. I know the staff are busy working hard and their lack of response is likely so they don't tie their hands down on a wipe date until they're ready, but it would be nice to have at least some kind of statement.

I've seen quite an increase in the number of "when is the wipe" shouts and forum posts in the last month or two... given that the current wipe is past the 15-month mark (I'm not sure whether that's on the long side as far as wipe lengths are concerned, but I feel it is kind of getting on the long side) some kind of time frame would be better than none...

[el conquistador]

would it help if someone said something along the lines of: "we dont know when the wipe will be but we know for sure it wont be in the next three months"

if i knew for sure that it wasnt going to be wiping in the next three months id be playing right now!

[oom]

but the problem with unscheduled wipes is that i have suspected that it is about to happen since september.  which has kept me from playing very much for 3+ months.

would it help if someone said something along the lines of: "we dont know when the wipe will be but we know for sure it wont be in the next three months"

Yes. If the threads people cared about got actual responses I think it would help.

[Tajs]

I guess the latest is this... it's from 25th of november

You shout 'any news on what's happening behind the scenes? like pwipe, nerfs of druids, re-buff of 2handers ..well, I don't know..'
Kodiak shouts 'pwipe estimated date if any would be super useful and appreciated'
Kam shouts 'You guys will be like, the 9th and 10th people to know.'
Nymia shouts 'why the sarcasm? giving players info is not a crime'
Kam shouts 'worried the definition of sarcasm may have eluded you in this moment'
Kam shouts 'will wait for you to catch up though. dictionary.com just a click away.'
Kam shouts 'This is derision. It's different.'
Igthorn shouts 'people just want to know so they can set their schedules :)    take time off for a fun pwipe race etc'
Anomander shouts 'Whatever it is, it doesn't explain this silence and refusal to inform the players of this game?'
Kam shouts 'How many more characters are you going to log to have this conversation, Dan?'
Icarium shouts 'Tajs here fyi, and I have many - why can't you answer a question?'
Kam shouts 'Oh hey tajs, how you been pal?'
Kam shouts 'It's weird to do this all over shout, but ok.'
Shammy shouts 'probably beacause he dont have the answer yet :)'
Kam shouts 'Shammy wins 1000 coins for playing a trivia game nobody knew we were playing.'
Kam shouts 'I'd like to thank Tajs, my co-host for the role of incendiary interrogator.'
Pikel shouts 'You're welcome, I'm just asking what every player in the game is thinking about. What and if there's going to be a pwipe and what's being worked on? Why can't we get any info on any of it?'
Kam shouts 'News of plans for a pwipe has historically been announced in the NEWS.'
Kam shouts 'As there has not yet been a NEWS update mentioning a pwipe date it's safe to assume there isn't one.'
You tell Kam 'Times are changing, maybe evolve and inform the few players left some more than what used to be the tradition?'
Kam tells you 'sorry i can't hear you when you don't shout'
Kam tells you 'you can shout now'
You shout 'Times are changing, maybe evolve and inform the few players left some more than what used to be the tradition? What's the harm in that, people might even be happy about it'

[Kam: We can just use this super cool chat channel Tajs.]
[Kam: Please tell me all the stuff I'm doing wrong.]
[Kam: Super excited to hear your public critique of my methods!]
[Belegorn: Public critique? I'm just asking questions and suggesting changes]
[Belegorn: If you want critique there's a few thread on the forums with ideas for changes]
[Kam: Wait, we have forums?]
[Kam: The same forums where posts about how there are currently no plans to wipe can be found, authored by some dashing kender madman named Kam?]
[Kam: Such a coincidence we have the same name, don't you think? He runs the forums, I run the game.]
[Kam: It's just a really strong name I suppose.]
[Belegorn: derisive is that what you're calling it? but why are are you?]
[Kam: Fit for a kender, naturally.]
[Kam: It's comical to have you shout the same nonsense every day.]
[Belegorn: it's easy to try and put ppl who asks questions down when you're Overlord I guess, much harder than to be forthcoming]
[Kam: I've been doing that since I was a hero, my good sir.]
[Kam: More levels just makes me better at it!]
[Belegorn: never to late to change, sir.]
[Kam: No huge mass deletions, everybody playing two chars with only a few jerks trying to cheat the rules]
[Kam: No immortals running about cheating wildly and pking people]
[Kam: Lots of cool new zones]
[Kam: some really cool new features]
[Belegorn: going to the abyss for asking questions? in a wizchat he set up himself. Ah, c'mon Shammy ;)]
[Kam: druids for sure don't suck anymore]
[Kam: The comfort of knowing you won't get abyssed in this situation for speaking your mind]
[Belegorn: there's definately lots of good things, I don't think anyone's denying that!]
[Kam: all things you didn't have before me]
[Kam: but oh here we are]
[Kam: no wipe date]
[Kam: what an asssssssssssshole.]
[Kam: There's no wipe date because we can't get the team it takes to pull off a wipe all together right now]
[Belegorn: what's the harm in just informing ppl what's in the works behind the scenes? not just wipe-wise?]
[Kam: We've done that on the forums where you've asked these questions before.]
[Belegorn: fair enough, I get that ..much easier if we're just a bit in the know]
[Kam: Read the forums. You post there. Try also reading it.]
[Kam: I'm also available via the 'tell' command]
[Kam: it's pretty new only 25 years or so it went in]
[Kam: shouting just makes you look like you're trying to make the staff look bad]
[Belegorn: I didn't set up this wizchat, you did. When I used this "tell" command ;)]
[Kam: that upsets the staff]
[Kam: they do all this work for free]
[Kam: Yeah but I'm not likely to let you start it in public and then let me finish it QUIETly]
[Kam: everyone should know you've got nothing but a simple gripe]
[Kam: and that fundamentally you agree that it's real dumb and there's no reason you should have shouted it in the first place]
[Kam: I don't think people have the impression we're running some sort of information blackout campaign here]
[Kam: I think this is the most well informed the playerbase has ever been]
[Belegorn: Not sure what it accomplished to insult me for asking, but I'm not going to start throwing insults back at you]
[Belegorn: but have a fine evening and thank you for the answers]
[Kam: Anytime!]
[Kam: I can also be reached by email at kam@arcticmud.org.]
[Kam: Anybody else have anything they'd like to discuss while I am here?]

[el conquistador]

lol