Author Topic: Reincarnation Thoughts  (Read 831 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Malthros

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 33
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2019, 03:08:38 PM »
it would be a really hard game to balance.  you don't want it to be too easy for these freaks of nature like kadaj but you don't want zones to be exclusively for 1 clan either.  the skill/knowledge ceiling is so high in this game it makes an enormous gap between a normal player and the best.

I get pretty frustrated sometimes but I think overall the immortals have done a really good job over the years of keeping the game interesting for everyone.  they probably suspect that someone is going to hit max reincarnates in 3 weeks and do some really game breaking stuff with it but they are still trying to do it for us anyway.

I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee.  How many decades have people like them played?  How many tens of thousands of hours have they spent on the game?  Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.  It's fine to make some tweaks here and there, or fix obvious bugs, but


People who focus on reincarnation are definitely going to hit max reincarnation within a few weeks of the wipe starting.  Even doing it 3x with legend alts to help power level me burned me out hard though so if anyone can power through 6x reincarnations out the gate and keep going strong then good for them.  They deserve that edge and I don't doubt for a second that reincarnation's boost is going to help enable some clans to clear fights they might not have otherwise, or at least clear some fights 'sooner' than they would have.  Especially once those characters hit legendary.

oom

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 98
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2019, 05:59:47 PM »
"When something is too hard for Dan to solo, it is too hard for Myth's 8 best...."

Just don't take it as a personal insult when there was none.

No insult was ever taken, it's historical pattern that in order to prevent you from soloing something, it has to be too hard for the 8 best myth.  that may change next wipe and that will be a big step for the growing clans.

I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.

Kadaj

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 202
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2019, 07:31:19 AM »
"When something is too hard for Dan to solo, it is too hard for Myth's 8 best...."

Just don't take it as a personal insult when there was none.

No insult was ever taken, it's historical pattern that in order to prevent you from soloing something, it has to be too hard for the 8 best myth.  that may change next wipe and that will be a big step for the growing clans.

I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.

That's one thing, when I played it was during the day when no one was on. So I had all the time in the world to sit there and think of ways to do these fights. I know if I had a bunch of people sitting there getting antsy and bored then there's no way I would be able to do that. It's just such a great game and I think if people are willing to spend the time/effort to do certain fights then that's great. I can't even remember the last time I was in a full 8 man group......let alone an 8 man of all real people

Gnua

  • Immortal
  • Elder
  • *
  • Posts: 508
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2019, 05:03:13 PM »
I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee... Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.

So when a paladin hits rank 44, reincarnates 6 times, and buys damage shield + steelskin + legend lay, rally, ri... the rank costs should NOT inflate to prevent this?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 05:19:06 PM by Gnua »

Gnua

  • Immortal
  • Elder
  • *
  • Posts: 508
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2019, 05:22:08 PM »
I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.

pretty sure that if someone opened the mystic vault, the fight would destroy myth's 8 best.  you gotta wonder about a king who can slaughter almost anyone who manages to get into his safe room but does not bring his wife with him.

Kadaj

  • Zoner
  • **
  • Posts: 202
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2019, 05:26:31 AM »
I mean....to be fair, he IS dead....

Malthros

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 33
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2019, 07:36:23 PM »
I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee... Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.

So when a paladin hits rank 44, reincarnates 6 times, and buys damage shield + steelskin + legend lay, rally, ri... the rank costs should NOT inflate to prevent this?

No I'm perfectly ok with someone who spent dozens (likely hundreds) of hours getting to that point.  Let them have that extra power.  It alone won't let them clear Cyan or Mithas or whatever else but it'll help and that's the point otherwise why spend the time getting there?

If everything's going to be boosted to offset reincarnation then it's just adding a new layer of grind and I'd rather see Reincarnation turned in to a one and done if that's the case.

el conquistador

  • Fodder
  • *
  • Posts: 89
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2019, 08:49:16 PM »

I honestly see zero problem with someone like Kadaj being able to break Arctic over their knee.  How many decades have people like them played?  How many tens of thousands of hours have they spent on the game?  Rebalancing the MUD around those players is like a game developer rebalancing their game because speedrunners can blow through their 40 hour RPG in 2 hours.


that is a very good point

reed23

  • Zone Leader
  • ***
  • Posts: 299
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2019, 03:08:25 PM »
My advice to immortals would be to act quick on these suggestions.  Reincarnation even sparked my interest to play a few nights last week.  However, there are some serious flaws in the initial design that should be sorted out immediately to capitalize on peoples' interest. 

Alignment change should be an option at reincarnation, subject to race constraints.  My two main characters from this wipe were evil and goodie.  That immediately put a halt to my reincarnation hopes.  And no way in bapting hell i'm going through the align change process - not happening.

Revamp how XP in groups are calculated.  I'd go as far as saying that XP should be the exact same for a person solo'ing a mob all the way to a 6 man.  Yes, a 6 man gets the same XP as a solo'er.  Arctic is dead af, and if someone knew they would XP 100x faster if they called two buddies and get them on the mud, then that is a great thing for the mud.  Anything that gives incentive for people to not form groups should be revamped.

Remove the lvl 30 XP penalty.  Makes zero sense and is completely useless.

Remove the XP penalty as you progress through reincarnation.  It takes enough grind as is.  What's the point, more grind?

Reduce cost of ranks.  Steelskin 25k, other ranks 1-5k, legend ranks 10k, legendary 25k.  Even that is going to put a big strain on purchasing ranks after each reincarnation.  Why would you want people not purchasing ranks throughout the reincarnation process which is likely to last up to a couple of months?  You rank and reincarnate to have more rank points to spend, but then it doesn't make sense to actually purchase the ranks?  That seems dumb.  Not to mention, once someone fully reincarnates, they probably will lose interest in the game.  So in the end, they could have gone from lvl 1 to fully reincarnated with minimal ranks purchased.

Akthunder

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2019, 07:51:10 AM »
I completely agree with what reed said. I second and third that motion.

Quid

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 29
  • Favorite Zone: Mortigoth
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2019, 01:35:06 AM »
I can't think of many fights MYTH couldn't do pretty easily. It's probably more to do with willingness to prep and getting people to pay attention long enough.

pretty sure that if someone opened the mystic vault, the fight would destroy myth's 8 best.  you gotta wonder about a king who can slaughter almost anyone who manages to get into his safe room but does not bring his wife with him.

I like to think that she's the one who locked him there.

Kam

  • Overlord
  • Zoner
  • ******
  • Posts: 191
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #26 on: October 16, 2019, 09:30:15 AM »
pretty sure that if someone opened the mystic vault, the fight would destroy myth's 8 best.  you gotta wonder about a king who can slaughter almost anyone who manages to get into his safe room but does not bring his wife with him.

I like to think that she's the one who locked him there.

gulca

  • Zone Leader
  • ***
  • Posts: 319
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2019, 11:42:35 PM »
Take a step back.

Who has time to grind through hours of play time for a game?

Anything that adds grind should be reconsidered.

Just pretend for a minute, if you were to sell arctic as an app.

The level 1 to level 30 progress should just be tutorial. A thing that you finish in maybe 3 sets of 5 min sessions.

All the zones would be align to start at level 30.

Concepts like grinding with zero or negative consequences should not be allowed. Everything you do will inch you closer to being better. Empty book loads, equipment decays and dts out.

Daily quest and login bonus should be implemented.  You can train offline with cap, so you have to login to reset the cap. Consecutive daily login for more bonus.

Anything that gets players to come back for a quick 10 to 30 min sessions a day would be ideal. The aim here is to get everyone to log on once every day for the rest of the year.

That means there should not be a barrier between any active players with respect to zoning. Anyone and everyone should benefit from zoning together.  This allows new players to get into action immediately. 

OK since this will never be an app, I just want to remind the imm's grinding isn't the best way to increase the value of a game mechanic. The more you emphasize on spending active in game time for new content , the less likely non active or new players are going to login and try.

Kam

  • Overlord
  • Zoner
  • ******
  • Posts: 191
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2019, 03:41:09 PM »
Ok. Just take a step back.


No.

sam

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 9
Re: Reincarnation Thoughts
« Reply #29 on: Today at 12:07:28 AM »
Take a step back.

Who has time to grind through hours of play time for a game?

Anything that adds grind should be reconsidered.

Just pretend for a minute, if you were to sell arctic as an app.

The level 1 to level 30 progress should just be tutorial. A thing that you finish in maybe 3 sets of 5 min sessions.

All the zones would be align to start at level 30.

Concepts like grinding with zero or negative consequences should not be allowed. Everything you do will inch you closer to being better. Empty book loads, equipment decays and dts out.

Daily quest and login bonus should be implemented.  You can train offline with cap, so you have to login to reset the cap. Consecutive daily login for more bonus.

Anything that gets players to come back for a quick 10 to 30 min sessions a day would be ideal. The aim here is to get everyone to log on once every day for the rest of the year.

That means there should not be a barrier between any active players with respect to zoning. Anyone and everyone should benefit from zoning together.  This allows new players to get into action immediately. 

OK since this will never be an app, I just want to remind the imm's grinding isn't the best way to increase the value of a game mechanic. The more you emphasize on spending active in game time for new content , the less likely non active or new players are going to login and try.

Your suggestions can help to drive traffic into the game, however during this time and age where people expect knowledge to be shared, too many good games with good graphics it's an uphill battle.  Just look at how many games that don't have guides, walkthroughs or youtube videos (hint: not many). 

Not to discredit the overlords and administrators, because I think you guys deserve much appreciation to keep the game running, my humble feedback, based on what I read on these forums, is that it seems there is no set direction that the game is going towards.  Do you want to drive traffic to the game? Do you want to keep the original concept of the game even if it is outdated? Do you want to make it a sandbox for the eleet of 20-30 to continue playing but forget about the others?

I do know of successful games that thrive on player grinds, but they have a clear strategy and direction which they continuously share to players, as well as adapting and changing based on feedbacks which they deem are useful. I could be wrong, but I believe there can be an improvement in this area for this game as well.