Author Topic: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.  (Read 811 times)

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hanlon

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Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« on: March 30, 2019, 04:24:16 PM »
1. Were 9 months into the wipe and hardly any of the end game content is being ran by anyone other than CORE. I've even talked with WILDS and they struggle to do most the end game content. I'm not saying it should be easy but when only 1 clan out of all players in the game can run the end game content...I think it needs looked at.

2. The grind to legend. This feels more like an MMORPG now than it does the Arctic I fell in love with.

3. The constant decay of EQ. I don't know what happened this wipe but I've spent more time repopping decays than I have actually exploring and trying out new things.

4. Mages being entirely useless unless they can get nightmare/blastwave/prism/stun. Why is this the only class in the game that can't be fully spelled out 100%? To me it screams broken if you have to literally prevent everyone in the game from achieving this.

5. The weapon changes. I didn't understand this change and clearly you guys didn't get the memo from the last time this happened. This will never be a popular decision and the next time you guys decide to do such a change...DON'T RUSH it. Melee weapons this wipe feel gimpy and just all around shitty.

6. Re-vamps of zones we all knew and loved. How about instead of re-vamping old zones you just keep adding in fresh content. New shadows is okay but I would of rather had the old shadows and the new one be something entirely different.

7. The lack of help files and resources to help old returning players and the RARE new player. I don't mind helping these types of players but this wipe it got to be to much. 

8. To much hidden information. An example would be healing factor done by_20. What does that even mean?! This isn't new to this wipe and has been on thing I've hated about this game since its conception. This is one of the only games in which we hide basic information from the player.  Another example the inate bonus on Crab? Why can't the player know how much armor they are getting by using crab? Or how about Frog or Fox? What do those even do? People use these but when you ask why they haven't a clue!

9. The constant nerfing of elite items when Clans not CORE finally do pop them. The first ever wipe MYTH gets a dragon orb...you guys nerf them! So it was okay for CORE to run around with broken OP chars but its not okay for MYTH? Or how about the change to the Divrak quest involving the komodo dragon? Was it not okay for MYTH to know the quest? Granted I re-solved the quest but only after all the EQ was maxxed! Seems like alot of the targeted nerfs you guys keep doing for the "betterment" are only meant to keep other players down. Weather you meant to or not its what it feels like. I can give one more example. You removed skullcap from the game but you didn't remove the skullcap EQ from players? Once again it felt like it was okay for CORE to run around with that type of EQ but it wasn't okay for other clans. When you make changes like this it feels like your punishing the player for learning and finally solving stuff. If you didn't want information and/or secrets to be shared you shouldn't off made this an online multi-player game.

It's also because of changes like this I finally shared my notes and all zone walk through with everyone I could and I mean everyone! The amount of people who can lead COT(Perox) now has pretty much triple'd or quadrupled this wipe.

Also the next time a member of the staff wants to tell a player that the reason all these changes were made is because to many people knew how...tel them not to say anything. After I was told that...I seriously felt like I was being punished for playing the game and I lost all interest in wanting to solve anything else.

That last part seems like bash against CORE and I'm not trying to make it seem like that but it is what it is.

Anyways I wish all of you the best of luck and I may or may not see you guys around!

Chisul

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2019, 06:21:20 PM »
Hey,

You didn't share you zone knowledge with me. :P

So I'm totally casual player now after years of clanning (MYTH, CORE, BSP, APOC, Etc.), and I'm only playing now so I can fart around with my two sons aged 13 and 9.

I love getting my 9 year old to bed telling him stories of the terrible wizard Terzak and the greedy hobgoblin Fewmaster Toade. It's fun chatting about the different classes and skills. They really love it and I really love getting to play with them...or over their shoulder as they fumble around Solace.

For me, the game has changed completely. Not in the sense that weapon damage got nerfed or I have to rank 1 zillion to legend. Those changes mean nothing to me at this point. I'm playing for the content and the time with my family.

Hands down, the CONTENT of Arctic is fantastic. I tried my hand at some creation. Taking on a fairly ambitious zone that never got completed so I know how much work goes into the mdesc, rdesc, odesc, edesc, etc. Not to mention all the specs and quests built into the zones. It's really impressive that such an immersive game still exists.

For me, getting game knowledge isn't about finding the next shiny item. It's about taking my kids through the next adventure that will get them talking and imagining for the next several days. My 9 year old runs around the back yard yelling "SWARM" "SWARM" "SWARM" at his brother. It's cool.

Though I can appreciate the challenges you talk about in your post, I guess I just don't "get it." any more.

Matt

el conquistador

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2019, 07:03:56 PM »

the reason all these changes were made is because to many people knew how...


is that true?  only the top players are allowed to know certain things and if too many people learn them they will be changed?  what is the logic behind that?


also i agree with most of the rest of your post hanlon.  especially about the grind.  its been pretty brutal this wipe. 

too little game information has always been a problem, but i can kind of understand it.  the staff is working for free and it would not be super fun to write a bunch of help files. 

Kadaj

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2019, 06:06:44 AM »
I would certainly write help files for all the spells/skills if I could actually see what they did. I have plenty of time at work to do it.  I'm not sure about the 'too many people knew' bit. Yes, a lot of people know......but a lot of those people only know it from a log. When clues change, the people that solved it or take the time to look at it can usually get the new information relatively easy compared to someone who has no idea about the zone and only leads it from a log.

The gear grind I know has been one of the biggest issues with this wipe. A lot of CORE has stepped away because it's tiresome to log on and see 3-5 decay messages. This isn't a part time job, it's a game. I don't blame anyone who not wanting to run decay after decay instead of spending time learning new zones or ranking a new character. If people could take a few days off, come back and still have gear, perhaps more people would stick around longer.

It's not the first wipe MYTH has had a dragon orb, I know it seems like some great conspiracy but I assure you, the Immortals are not playing to CORE's favor. As far as Skullcap goes, I believe that there was an issue with that zone so Kam decided to remove it for now. 

The newest change to ranks and how they work was a step in the right direction. Ranking isn't so bad now as it was at the beginning of the wipe. So that's a good start.

I think Mages got absolutely shit on this wipe. As it stands, there really is NO other reason to play a mage outside Moment of Clarity and locate. Their spell loads are so wonky and absolutely terrible to load. Most druid spells can easily be 2 manned up until cure massive/healing cloud/lightning storm/granite hands and even then are still 2 mannable if you know how.  I agree something needs to be done to bring them back. I'd like to see a nerf to druids as they seem extremely strong now, but nerfing them too much will just throw them back to where they were.

I also agree with the revamps. Enough with the revamps! We have zones that are in, finished(mostly) and are functioning(mostly). Instead of spending what little time our devoted creators have to old zones, I think most everyone can agree that adding additional zones instead of just changing what we have would be better for everyone.

But like everyone has said and so have I, these Immortals are volunteers, working for free and they have lives. It's tough to contribute as much as you and I and they would like. I just hope that with next wipe, they take the time to fix some of the issues the mortals have. 

Heo

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2019, 11:30:04 AM »
Just my thoughts on this:

1)  Imms have lives and this game is free. 

It's easy to get that kind of entitlement feeling - but remember, this game is free.  Strangers who owe you nothing created it and all the enjoyment you get out of it.  So consider this more of a community than a product - everyone pitches in.  Staff makes cool stuff, but players should also consider that they should be contributing as well - whether that's through working towards becoming staff or just not being a massive dick to people who put in hard work.

(Note:  I do not have an imm nor have I ever wanted one - I realize how much hard work goes in)

2)  There are multiple ways to enjoy the game

Probably my greatest memories of this game was leading a clan in the massive clan wars.  It was an absolute blast, and as someone who runs a company now, I realize I learned a lot about leadership from my experience there.  Weird I know.

But, now that those clan warfare days are gone, I still really enjoy the content.  I started a barb and shaman for the first time ever, learned some neat new quests, and continue to solo zones that kicked a full group's butt many years ago (with lots of prep/work/dying of course).


3)  If you bitch about things, suggest a thought out solution

There are always tradeoffs.  Did they mess with decay?  Yes.  Why?  Probably because there were a lot of deep renters.  Other options are:  Allow deep renting (no eq loads and people get bored), or deep rent purges (usually kill off eq from innocents who then quit). 

So it's a tough call. I've also been noticing a lot of eq has been loading.  But it's easy to see the things that piss you off rather than the stuff that's awesome.


---

Anyways - like I said, I'm enjoying the game, learning new zones, etc.

My only gripe is BS keywords and thesaurus work - (I shouldn't need to figure out press button instead of push button, let them both work).  And stuff like that.  And broken quests kind of bum me out too (have spent way too much time on painting quest, think it's broken).

Iadus

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2019, 06:23:37 PM »
There are five or six different paintings, and, as far as I know, they all work fine.

Heo

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2019, 11:04:49 PM »
That said -

Exploring a new zone where quaffing a heal auto kills you, then spending a while CRing only to have the zone bug so you're stuck in the zone unable to get to your corpse, losing all your eq.  That, well, that sucks really hard. 

Jang Yoo Sung

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 01:18:58 AM »

the reason all these changes were made is because to many people knew how...


is that true?  only the top players are allowed to know certain things and if too many people learn them they will be changed?  what is the logic behind that?



it's very true, huma's shield quest was changed after more than the allowed number of ppl knew abt it

Jang Yoo Sung

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 01:24:12 AM »

And broken quests kind of bum me out too (have spent way too much time on painting quest, think it's broken).


painting quests are not worth the hassle, except for mushroom hilted

Alecto

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 05:17:22 PM »
I feel like elite game content SHOULD be changed every wipe (Huma's, Mystic Vault, Cyan, Blaze). The problem is that means someone has to change it, and come up with fun, interesting, clever ways that are solvable but might take a chunk of the wipe to figure out.

gnua

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2019, 08:41:21 AM »
It's not the first wipe MYTH has had a dragon orb, I know it seems like some great conspiracy but I assure you, the Immortals are not playing to CORE's favor.

My theory is that "things changing on myth" (whether it be the greenen backdoor, the mystic vault, or the dragon orb nerf) is more of a collateral damage thing.  around the time myth has something in their repetoire, someone in core soloes it... possibly at level 7.  and so something has to change to stop core from cheesing and thus it goes out of the grasp of myth as well. 

gulca

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2019, 10:06:50 AM »
I feel like elite game content SHOULD be changed every wipe (Huma's, Mystic Vault, Cyan, Blaze). The problem is that means someone has to change it, and come up with fun, interesting, clever ways that are solvable but might take a chunk of the wipe to figure out.

Release how it was done previously else you come back to the same point.

The idea that some particular guy owns an item for a period of time can only be so much fun for him and his friends. Bullies at the playground and kids learn to hang out at other places sooner or later. I'm guessing we are in the later years.

Don't confuse challenges creating fun and challenges taking away fun. It's easy to do both, as dungeon master and so much so as players.

Anyway, any additions or tweaks to the game sends a powerful message. A message saying they care.  And that's definitely a good thing.



Kholos

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2019, 05:03:53 PM »
1. Were 9 months into the wipe and hardly any of the end game content is being ran by anyone other than CORE. I've even talked with WILDS and they struggle to do most the end game content. I'm not saying it should be easy but when only 1 clan out of all players in the game can run the end game content...I think it needs looked at.

2. The grind to legend. This feels more like an MMORPG now than it does the Arctic I fell in love with.

3. The constant decay of EQ. I don't know what happened this wipe but I've spent more time repopping decays than I have actually exploring and trying out new things.

4. Mages being entirely useless unless they can get nightmare/blastwave/prism/stun. Why is this the only class in the game that can't be fully spelled out 100%? To me it screams broken if you have to literally prevent everyone in the game from achieving this.

5. The weapon changes. I didn't understand this change and clearly you guys didn't get the memo from the last time this happened. This will never be a popular decision and the next time you guys decide to do such a change...DON'T RUSH it. Melee weapons this wipe feel gimpy and just all around shitty.

6. Re-vamps of zones we all knew and loved. How about instead of re-vamping old zones you just keep adding in fresh content. New shadows is okay but I would of rather had the old shadows and the new one be something entirely different.

7. The lack of help files and resources to help old returning players and the RARE new player. I don't mind helping these types of players but this wipe it got to be to much. 

8. To much hidden information. An example would be healing factor done by_20. What does that even mean?! This isn't new to this wipe and has been on thing I've hated about this game since its conception. This is one of the only games in which we hide basic information from the player.  Another example the inate bonus on Crab? Why can't the player know how much armor they are getting by using crab? Or how about Frog or Fox? What do those even do? People use these but when you ask why they haven't a clue!

9. The constant nerfing of elite items when Clans not CORE finally do pop them. The first ever wipe MYTH gets a dragon orb...you guys nerf them! So it was okay for CORE to run around with broken OP chars but its not okay for MYTH? Or how about the change to the Divrak quest involving the komodo dragon? Was it not okay for MYTH to know the quest? Granted I re-solved the quest but only after all the EQ was maxxed! Seems like alot of the targeted nerfs you guys keep doing for the "betterment" are only meant to keep other players down. Weather you meant to or not its what it feels like. I can give one more example. You removed skullcap from the game but you didn't remove the skullcap EQ from players? Once again it felt like it was okay for CORE to run around with that type of EQ but it wasn't okay for other clans. When you make changes like this it feels like your punishing the player for learning and finally solving stuff. If you didn't want information and/or secrets to be shared you shouldn't off made this an online multi-player game.

It's also because of changes like this I finally shared my notes and all zone walk through with everyone I could and I mean everyone! The amount of people who can lead COT(Perox) now has pretty much triple'd or quadrupled this wipe.

Also the next time a member of the staff wants to tell a player that the reason all these changes were made is because to many people knew how...tel them not to say anything. After I was told that...I seriously felt like I was being punished for playing the game and I lost all interest in wanting to solve anything else.

That last part seems like bash against CORE and I'm not trying to make it seem like that but it is what it is.

Anyways I wish all of you the best of luck and I may or may not see you guys around!

The grind to legendary is what it is. It really isn't that bad, especially being able to play 2 characters now. You can accomplish plenty without being legendary, and it should mean something. You seem to be complaining about the game being too hard and characters being underpowered, but very little was changed. Mages are as they always were, if only perhaps overshadowed a bit by druids. Druids, by the way, had their 'power' hugely increased. They require little gear and can supplement a group with damage or healing.

If any other clan is not regularly running high-end content, it's a likely a problem of motivation, time constraints, or coordination among that clan. You really don't need every dragonlance and dragonorb in the game to kill Cyan.

The weapon changes were mostly positive, reducing max damage but overall increasing average damage. There were a few examples of nerfs (spider mace), and of course two-handers got quite messy. This will likely be corrected and re-balanced (for the better), but it takes time.

Certain quests and zone clues have traditionally changed (mystic, humas) so not much is new there. A few wipes ago the was a slightly larger overhaul of a few keywords. I think the extent to which KW's get changed is exaggerated.

Skullcap was de-linked due to some issues that were uncovered. Removing gear from a player is, understandably, something that isn't done lightly. When Skullcap gear decayed, it was unable to be reloaded (remember how gear doesn't last forever?).

Speaking of gear decay timers: Not a huge change here. Most low-limit items were simply changed to rent decay. This allowed the re-circulation of items from inactive players, as there were often limit 1 items that would disappear from the game because the player with 500k coins never returned. Pzapping everyone after a month of inactivity hardly seems like a solution.

Re-vamps are touchy, I get it. I revamped Que Kul and Shadow Isle, and I really enjoyed both of the old zones. Both were also quite awful in terms of creation. Not to knock on poor Dimitri (whoever that is), but the zone was probably created in an afternoon. It was full of dead-ends, lousy writing, and useless objects. To top it all off, it was also incredibly easy to load some of the best items in the game. Shadow Isle, having nothing to even do with Dragonlance lore (yes we still are a roleplaying game) was either to be removed, or remade, with homage to the original. There was still plenty of new content added to the game (Blue Dragonarmy, Ancient Labyrinth, Trade/Farholm, Rigitt, Underbelly). The standards for a quality zone are much higher now, which has lead to the review of some older zones.

A few thoughts:
Transparency has always been a touchy subject on Arctic. There have been attempts to make the game more transparent (removing the majority of NOLORE items), and there will likely be more. The game evolves as does it's players, sometimes at an unequal rate.

As immortals get busier with their schedule, sometimes the game can seem stagnant and as though the issues are being ignored. There is a finite amount of manpower, and oftentimes it requires coordination between people in different time zones.

If there is one thing Arctic has done reasonably well lately it is to listen and respond to player input. I know how easy it become enraged and flame on the forums or in game, but as we all grow older (questionably wiser) and the rage-quits stop, lets also be more productive on the forums.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 05:12:34 PM by Kholos »

Heo

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2019, 02:11:29 PM »
Wanted to comment on the zone revamp thread, but it's locked.

Super excited to explore new zones and a lot of other content that I've be discovering lately.  Sadly, have started a new company and so for the next 4 months or so at least will likely be too busy to risk addiction here, hopefully this wipe will still be going on when the company either is wildly successful and I can hire some more people or it fails miserably and I need some good video game consolation.

Cheers all.

Kam

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Re: Reasons I probably won't play anymore.
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2019, 09:00:47 PM »
We will be removing all new zones in 4 months.


To spite Heo.