Author Topic: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.  (Read 2865 times)

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BigHoot

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Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« on: December 18, 2018, 09:28:18 AM »
I can only speculate on what it's like post-legendary, since I've never gotten there, but I can honestly say that the game is more fun between levels 1-28 than it is from 29-30.  This seems entirely backwards.  1-28 shows tremendous character growth, learning new skills, abilities, followers, spells, instincts, whatever.  29-30 is a horrible, horrible grind.  The "good" groups may take you, but you're just an "assist bot" and fill no real role.  More than likely you spend your time grinding on city guards or, in the case of good characters, Neraka.

In addition to the XP, rank, and coin grind, some classes are "lucky" enough to have additional requirements to get to legendary status - quests, spells, or instincts.  This essentially restricts solo players to thief, warrior, or barbarian.  I think this is a travesty for a game that is ostensibly so rich in high-end content.

(Before anyone throws "join a clan, noob" in my face, I'll say that I'm in one of the top clans.  And I'm not being critical of my clan-mates.  I know that my characters contribute nothing to the success of our groups. I wouldn't want me either.)

Over the past 2 wipes, I've taken 6 characters to level 28 and mostly enjoyed doing it.  None of them have been able to make the leap to legendary.  Only 1 has spent any time at all at level 30.  Once the grind sets in, the game is no longer interesting and the idea of rolling up new characters is far more appealing and fun than grinding out legendary status.

Heo

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2018, 09:47:39 AM »
Add a druid.

Yes, lvl 28 and lvl 29 suck.  So does skill training.  But it doesn't suck that bad.  You can solo that xp yourself with a druid multi-char.

Take the opportunity to explore some cool mid level zones.  Put on the football game and slam a few repops of Neraka or Deep Mine.  Honestly, there are way more grindy games.  Many would argue that the rank grind to legendary is tougher. 

But once you do get there you'll have a truly powerful character.  I've soloed stuff in this game with store bought weapons that I watched top clans mass-rip to back in the day.  It's fun and exciting to mess around with that kind of stuff, but yeah, there's a bit of a grind at times, just like everything in life.

Quid

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2018, 10:14:32 AM »
I have to agree with this, my thoughts on the game in its current state is that I get to 28, start working on some skills I couldn't be arsed with on the way, take my toon into the clan and join whatever group will take me and start working weapon skills on high level mobs, because exping my way to level 30 is just a grindfest and on top of that I am supposed to take 25 ranks to get legend?
Speaking of leveling, some characers are having a tougher time then others, I recently fell in love with scouts because instincts are just awesome, (since those things actually connect), but when my regen skill is camp and bandage and sitting down on my rump waiting foor ticks, I start to envy warriors with their vigor, barbarians with their healdance, dks with drain/soul leech, etc you get it, or are scouts supposed to get recuperate ranks and just suck it up?

Regarding legend, this might just be me being a bad player, but I am having trouble connecting with skills I have spent rankpoints and cash into (5 kicks to get a hit vs the tracking dudes near dargo), and this is really frustrating even when going against level 25ish mobs, but I digress. Rank 25 seems to be way to high in my opinion, I still have money to grind, and skills (spells/instincts) to get, 20 was reasonable, you still get enough rank% to get there without it being to horrible.
Now I said I get to about 28 and join a group, joining groups when people can just do most content with 2 chars? I mentioned this as a bad thing at the start of the wipe, and the amount of groups I've joined with my lowlevel chars is very low, now why don't I just play 2 chars? Because I can't be arsed writing the script to make it worthwhile, I want to have fun playing game, writing scripts because I HAVE to play 2 chars isn't fun.
Yeah I know, I am not enforced to play 2 characters, but again, I have to get 25 ranks, my chances of doing that increase a fair bit if I play 2 rather then one (but I don't want to waah).
The steelskin rank, why was this increased to 15 rps? Was it really that overused, is it that much of a boost that it required more points?If it was going any direction I'd assume it'd cost 10 rather then 15.

Regarding skills, if you need to legend a skill to make it actually work, that's bad design, increase the skills and remove the +skill from legend ranks in that case, and just have the changes to the actual skill be the legendary portion of it.

TL;DR: Why rank 25 for legend, why 15 ranks for steelskin, why no way to get back health for scouts (pre vulture for sky, pre legend for ocean and never for mtn), why 2 chars/player?

/END!

gnua

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2018, 10:29:38 AM »
It feels like the numerous improvements to post-legendary play balance (e.g. new zones like shadow, reducing legend shaman spirits to 4 from 5, etc...) have done collateral damage to the pre-legendary play. (e.g. old shadow was highly accessible to prelegends and provided spells for mages shammies and cleric, prelegend shammies only get 2 spirits).  in addition, the prelegendary timeframe feels like it has doubled.  the time that a character spends neither improving nor useful (post 28, fully spelled, but not yet legend) has tripled.

The new changes have really brought the legendary play into a better spot, but this seems to have come at the cost of destroying the prelegendary fun.  it seems like i'm not the only one who wants to make prelegendaries great again.

Kadaj

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2018, 10:30:08 AM »
I definitely don't agree with steelskin rank being 15 points. As a tank class that often tanks, you are basically dedicating those 15 ranks to steelskin at all times. Perhaps for barbarians/warriors/dks/paladins/scouts the rank could be cheaper so they could actually spend their rank points on legend ranks where casters would still require 15 RP?

Heo

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2018, 12:02:45 PM »
Possible solutions:

1)  Increase the time it takes to "max" on a mob

2)  Look at creating some more xp parity within zones - places like Kal docks, Neraka, Deep Mine are spammed because they are high xp relative to other zones.  Personally I tend to follow Xitobi zones pretty closely, if other zones could have their difficulty level and xp rewards set similarly, it might spread out zones that people hit in their power leveling.

That said, people will always complain about something, and getting ranks/xp always sucks in some way, so maybe these complaints are a good sign.

I personally am enjoying the game quite a bit and finding that the multi-player tactics are enough to get me through the grind.

----

Oh, and you don't have to create a script to have a second character.

Open zmud, creating two arctic windows, setup one on the left, one on the right.  On the right one give it a name by doing this:  #name druid

On the left window, type #alias ll {:druid: %1}

Now whenever you want a command to go to the second window, type: ll {command}

That's pretty much all the scripting I do and it works just dandy.

Kam

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2018, 12:06:28 PM »
I can only speculate on what it's like post-legendary, since I've never gotten there, but I can honestly say that the game is more fun between levels 1-28 than it is from 29-30.  [...]
Over the past 2 wipes, I've taken 6 characters to level 28 and mostly enjoyed doing it.  None of them have been able to make the leap to legendary.  Only 1 has spent any time at all at level 30.

In my first two wipes I managed to get one character to level 25.

I think you are doing very well so far.
I also think that you should not expect to reach the end game until you have gathered more experience in playing the game.
The more you know, the easier it gets.

Yes, rank 25 is hard to obtain. It is intended to be.

Kholos

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2018, 12:09:55 PM »
@ Quid

Nothing wrong with playing only 1 character, but don't assume you have to have a script (against the rules) to play 2. I've never used anything more than a few alias'. Alt + tab works pretty well for me.

@ BigHoot

28-30 is a lot of XP, but thankfully you can still gain ranks along the way (remember when you couldn't?)  Being level 30 means much less than it used to. Still, getting to 30 will require a bit of time. You probably won't get there in a day, but consider that most players can level a character from 1-30 in a week or two. It's not that bad.

As Heo said,

You can absolutely run multiple 'repops' of zones for great XP. There are also countless solo and small group zones that offer great experience now. If you find yourself getting bored of running the usual XP zone, try to find another one. There are still some mid to mid-high level zones that aren't grindy, and offer progression through them (hopefully more to come).

Quid

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2018, 12:33:52 PM »
So to sum it all up, play 2 chars or git gud or both?
« Last Edit: December 18, 2018, 12:37:17 PM by Quid »

Kam

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2018, 01:36:10 PM »
I don't recall you having much trouble playing two chars last wipe (when it wasn't legal!!!).

BigHoot

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2018, 01:37:36 PM »
I think my biggest complaint is that there's no content that's designed for the solo player (whether playing 1 or 2 characters) at the high levels. Just getting xp feels like killing the same city guards over and over.

There's also no way to satisfy the legendary requirements for most of the classes as a solo player, even with two characters. This requires groups, but groups at this end of the spectrum are nearly impossible to find because the legends are always off doing legendary stuff and i can't participate meaningfully.

Rhys

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2018, 02:01:52 PM »
I can only speculate on what it's like post-legendary, since I've never gotten there, but I can honestly say that the game is more fun between levels 1-28 than it is from 29-30.  This seems entirely backwards.  1-28 shows tremendous character growth, learning new skills, abilities, followers, spells, instincts, whatever.  29-30 is a horrible, horrible grind.  The "good" groups may take you, but you're just an "assist bot" and fill no real role.  More than likely you spend your time grinding on city guards or, in the case of good characters, Neraka.

In addition to the XP, rank, and coin grind, some classes are "lucky" enough to have additional requirements to get to legendary status - quests, spells, or instincts.  This essentially restricts solo players to thief, warrior, or barbarian.  I think this is a travesty for a game that is ostensibly so rich in high-end content.

(Before anyone throws "join a clan, noob" in my face, I'll say that I'm in one of the top clans.  And I'm not being critical of my clan-mates.  I know that my characters contribute nothing to the success of our groups. I wouldn't want me either.)

Over the past 2 wipes, I've taken 6 characters to level 28 and mostly enjoyed doing it.  None of them have been able to make the leap to legendary.  Only 1 has spent any time at all at level 30.  Once the grind sets in, the game is no longer interesting and the idea of rolling up new characters is far more appealing and fun than grinding out legendary status.

+1

Kam

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2018, 02:23:21 PM »
I think my biggest complaint is that there's no content that's designed for the solo player (whether playing 1 or 2 characters) at the high levels. Just getting xp feels like killing the same city guards over and over.

There's also no way to satisfy the legendary requirements for most of the classes as a solo player, even with two characters. This requires groups, but groups at this end of the spectrum are nearly impossible to find because the legends are always off doing legendary stuff and i can't participate meaningfully.

Quote from: HELP NEWBIE
[...]
2. Your Character
Your character is defined by his or her GUILD, RACE, ABILITY SCORES, LEVEL,
and ALIGNMENT. Some guilds are more difficult to play than others; we
recommend starting with a warrior, mage or cleric. Further, your character
will have access to various SKILLS and SPELLS based on his or her guild.
The help for the SKILL SYSTEM and SPELL SYSTEM will provide useful
information on how skills and spells are dealt with here. Increases in
level may be gained through adventuring and gaining EXPERIENCE from areas
(also called "zones"). Areas have level designations to provide you with an
idea of places you can explore to gain experience at your particular level.
See HELP AREAS (and especially HELP AREAS LOW LEVEL for places you can
start at right now). Just like real life, it is hard to get far on your
own, and we suggest you find a band of fellow players to adventure with
(HELP GROUP).

[...]

Code: [Select]
Welcome to Arctic.

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Matthew

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2018, 03:03:42 PM »
Well! Its lucky you have that line to paste or you might have to consider ways to relieve the grind and make the GAME fun to play. I for one didn't realize experienced players hated having fun tbh. Tell me, will today be the day I am allowed to have superb target? Have i waited the appropriate amount of time? I can afk another 40 minutes if I have too! The problem I see is something Arctic has suffered for a long time, and that is that the immortals equate grind/waiting to hard work. But I say there are other ways to have players earn things. Like the Lily and Paladin quests.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 05:42:19 AM by Matthew »

Quid

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Re: Game is a total drag from 28 to pre-legendary-30.
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2018, 03:09:35 PM »
I don't recall you having much trouble playing two chars last wipe (when it wasn't legal!!!).

I never did though? apart from the occasional CR when there was no one on.