Author Topic: Rank Scripts  (Read 2744 times)

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phildo

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Rank Scripts
« on: December 10, 2018, 02:55:58 PM »
I've ran into a couple of rank scripting characters recently who have scripts to kill soloable rank mobs on a huge loop. I feel like this is against the rules and I'm someone who stuck it out through the Hoss era. This really drains my love of the game and reaching out to see if anyone else is discouraged by this and if the Immortals care. If this isn't an issue to anyone else then I know I should finally just move on.

el conquistador

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2018, 03:05:46 PM »
people have been doing this for years.  it definitely is against the rules but seems like it would be pretty hard to catch.

it is one of the reasons the rank system is so bad.  someone can program a bot and make all your solo ranks go to .01 while they are sleeping

kanu

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2018, 06:35:25 PM »
Yeah, this is not cool IMHO. It's tricky because to figure that someone is doing this means watching someone spam the same 10 zones over and over again (or however the characters involved are doing this).

I suspect that this could be caught with some logging of the character to ranks earned relationship but I don't know how much of a lift that would be.

Heo

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2018, 06:45:30 PM »
I get annoyed at this constantly.  I was running ranks earlier annoyed that some CORE guy was botting them down to .01.

Then I shot him a tell and he was basically doing the same thing that I was he just started about an hour before me, it's just irritating, haha.  With the two mans I find it not as bad.  But it also pays to be creative in your zone choice.  How do you know everyone else is botting, did they not respond to a tell or something?  Or is it because they're doing the same ranks as you and that's annoying?

phildo

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2018, 10:43:38 PM »
I was in the zone before he came in, he tried to stabbed the mob 5 times while I was in combat so I decided to follow him and talk to him. No response and when I got to a room a mob was past the door, I shut the door and it completely stopped the script. I stood there for about an hour just to make sure. I think immortals can check this, maybe not. Kam, can you confirm?

Kadaj

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 06:00:56 AM »
Although this would be awesome to do.....if no one else was playing...I feel like if you learned the zones well enough to make the script you should be able to actually type it out. I don't mind people spamming zones over and over, but if you aren't even at the keyboard and the game is playing itself, that's pretty poop.

Gnua

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 08:07:10 AM »
sounds like this is technically not a script and just one giant alias.  apart from size, it could be "just like" the popular speedwalks which are currently legal.  the options seem like: allow both (status quo), forbid both (now how will i get to irda?), or create complicated rules that require human discretion and eventually lead to the heartache of unjust punishment and the accusation of partiality on the part of the immortals.

I think the root of the problem is that someone sweeping up the little rank mobs effectively ruins the zone for everyone for 12 or more hours.  People afk skilling spellcraft is just as illegal if not more, but no one cares because it doesnt prevent others from skilling.  But if every enlighten on spellcraft locked down the training for 12 hours for the entire mage guild, other mages would object.

If you could just follow these rank-alias people and the game just made them share rank with you, we would be happy to meet someone with a rank-alias and never report it.

Heo

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 08:17:10 AM »
How about this as a solution -

Level a druid to 15 in about an hour.  Wait for him to come by, lock him in a room, and thorn spray him to death.  Problem solved.  That's how I killed Jeezy with my lvl 8 druid when he was pking and then botting off his flags.

Thymorical2

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 08:55:30 AM »
New age betting problems I guess lol... grinder bots... #diablomud

Nasredin

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2018, 11:27:31 AM »
My opinion is completely opposite, for 2 reasons:

1) The purpose of the game is to let the players have some fun, not to manually imitate the job that can be done by a simple and stupid robot. I can type all the directions in the speedwalk myself, but it doesn't provide any additional fun over using a speedwalk, just takes more time and effort. Thus, i let the speedwalk (which is an example of a very simple bot, as somebody already mentioned in this thread) get me to my destination, while I concentrate on more interesting things - say, which zone to do next.

Same with ranks - If (for a particular player), the most efficient way to get some rank xp is to run a fixed set of mobs in a fixed order, and kill each mob with a fixed sequence of combat actions - then, the player can just pre-type all the commands and go drink some coffee while the game playes itself. And that's what they actually do!

All the ideas for fighting the bots mentioned in this thread were mostly along the lines "let's not let the player drink their coffee and actually force them to watch how the game plays itself". Or, even worse, to force the player to serve the game while it plays itself, by manually typing the commands which the bot already knows (since there is a fixed text string that contains all the right commands in the right order).

Conclusion: the players use bots to get rid of boring activities and deal manually with interesting tasks. Instead of trying to prohibit the bots (which never works well), just remove the boring activities and offer ideas to replace them with something more interesting.

For example, I have an impression that the 'guard' and 'into the breach' skills did a lot towards reducing the usage of auto-rescue bots in the game.


2) One of the most important concepts in every game is challenge. If i need a program that prints
"You just killed the dragon! Barehanded!! And with your hands behind your back!!! You're a great hero!"
I would make it from a "hello, world" in 5 minutes. The thing only becomes interesting if it takes some thinking to actually kill the dragon.

Back to ranks, if the purpose of the game was to let everyone get to rank 25 in under 25 hours, the simpliest solution would be to start the new characters already at rank 25. Or at least to lock the ranks, so that every time you kill a mob, you get the maximum rank for it, no matter who and when killed it previously.

The purpose of reducing the ranks to 0.01 after kill was to force the players to go out and explore rather than kill the same mob again and again. If some popular mob is getting spammed - it results in the rank never going up. It doesn't really matter if the mob is spammed by bots or by manually controlled characters - the important keywords here are spammed and well-known, not bots or humans. In fact, the bot doesn't get much profit, too - it gets the same 0.01 as everybody else who spams the overkilled mobs.

The solution is, of course, to use your brains. And the first thing that your brains should tell you is that there is no point in trying to compete with a bot in persistency and insistence - the bot will always win, since the bots were invented exactly for the tasks that require much persistency and little thinking.

We, the humans, are different - we prefer the tasks that require more thinking and less persistency. For me, the exciting part of the ranks hunting was to find the mobs somewhere "off the main road", the mobs that most other players overlook.

Just for example, there is a zone somewhere between Kalaman and Palanthas that has quite a few soloable rank mobs in it, and most of those mobs are permanently at 0.01. However, the zone also has a secret part that has 5 more soloable rank mobs, and I get full rank xp from those every 3 or 4 days. Thus, I have the luxury of not using bots and still get decent ranks for my superior knowledge and explore skills.


P.S. The botting is bad, but for completely different reasons. In brief, it effectively turns the game in a single-player, PvE environment rather than a multiple-player, PvP one.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 11:37:49 AM by Nasredin »

Heo

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2018, 11:33:15 AM »
His point, that maybe Phil should also explore some new zones instead of basically being a human bot isn't bad either.

Also, I think at the end of the day, reflect on the ultimate help file:

We expect other players to handle problems caused in the mortal
    world.  When we find that for any reason the mortals can't handle
    the problem, we will step in.  No debate.  No lengthy discussions.
    It will behoove you to handle it amongst yourselves.  You won't like
    the way we do it.


It sucks that someone is doing the same ranks that you are Phil, and we get it, you'd like Kam to delete that person or persons.  But nothing is really stopping you from killing that guy a bunch with his bot so he stops.  Take charge.  And maybe explore some new zones.  All of us hit the solo ranks.  And it sucks for all of us that everyone else has the same idea.  But nothing is stopping you from doing something about it.

Jorake

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2018, 12:01:33 PM »
Lol. What? “Phil don’t be upset because someone’s doing the same zones as you”. You all weren’t paying attention I think. Phil said he followed the person and they didn’t respond. He closed the door etc. and broke their script.. clearly a bot. So he is saying there should be punishment for not ranking. Because it perma lowers rank gains for those not botting.


Heo

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2018, 12:17:57 PM »
Right, so kill them.

And if they aren't bots, and just doing the same zones as everyone else here, either deal with it or learn new zones. 

Willoe

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2018, 10:12:28 PM »
Would be funny to just keep locking him in a room if you know where he is going! Will make him actually sit at his keyboard while he runs his script!

Jorake

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Re: Rank Scripts
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 05:32:30 AM »
That’s the main thing. You’re supposed to be at the keyboard. Not off having coffee. It’s the same as bot akilling.