Author Topic: Clerics?  (Read 6290 times)

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Shannow

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2018, 01:19:29 PM »
Just make them more fun. Otherwise shits getting nerfed , and no one likes that.

Deity specifc skills and some better/new spells.

Dagda

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2018, 02:47:46 PM »
That's all fine and good. But i think you are missing the entire point of why people aren't playing clerics.

Sure shamans and druids have good heals. great heals even. But neither can bring a 800 hp tank from 1hp to 800 with 1 spell. This alone makes clerics the top healing option. It however doesnt address or negate the fact that clerics are BORING as shit to play. I consider myself one of the best nonscript healers still around. I played clerics for 4-5wipes straight. Before legend and after legend. I get to the point where i hardly ever type group to check hps. I watch the battle rounds and see who just got massacred, was it a mage(if i let them in group), was it a tank that will regen those hps on the tic. Who can survive 2-3 rounds in a row while eating 3x oblits and such. Speed read through the spam of a color spray or sunray and see who got blinded, who got weakened, who is more important to restore strength or cure blind right at that time. Kam brought up a good point that battle healing, or planning your moves etc with heals, cure blinds, when to cure this person, which person do you let die when there isnt a choice for both to live. Sure its exciting for that fight. That ONE fight that requires those decisions. EVERY OTHER FIGHT is boring as shit. Cause even if you dont have a druid/shaman. You are just typing heal blahblahtank. Their utility is horrible. Having gate makes it kinda fun, cause you can control a charmie. or legend animate even. you can see fun damage. But even gate lost me when they changed the marilith. I used to love hoarding some decent nolimit prime, and like ebony shield just for my demon. Cause it hit twice and bashed and was fun to play in groups. But thats gone and i never casted gate again other than to pick something.

Druids can cast spells to deal damage and do some nice curing. They get a pet. They are fun at legend. 
Shaman can do some minor damage, but they have stupefy/hex/spook/FRENZY. I play my shamans more for damage than healing. I'm fine with the natural slots they get. I love being able to 2x annih on a bashed mob with a 2hander.
Clerics can animate(when it lands), have 5-6rounds of a group cure crit, and AND and TURN! Oh and heal.

I dont get tired of saying it. The answer isn't nerfing other classes people love playing. The answer is to turn clerics into something that people would love to play.

Geo plays a cleric every wipe and I don't think he uses scripts :). He stills seems to love it and I have never met a more reliable healer, except maybe Troggs - but he definitely script healed.

Heo

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2018, 05:26:20 PM »
Scripts can also mean just heavily modifying your client.

For instance, if someone gets stabbed, I can hit F1 to instantly heal them.  Is that scripting?

Or I can hit gc and it shows me each person's status in a separate window with F2-10 next to their name and I can hit that button to heal anyone low without keeping track of spam.  Personally I feel being able to parse information intelligently makes you a better healer than someone who tries to do it without customizing their client.

Jorake

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #63 on: December 11, 2018, 05:37:18 AM »
I just type 102 wpm. I alias the tank and that’s it.

Shannow

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #64 on: December 11, 2018, 11:08:02 AM »
Scripts can also mean just heavily modifying your client.

For instance, if someone gets stabbed, I can hit F1 to instantly heal them.  Is that scripting?

Or I can hit gc and it shows me each person's status in a separate window with F2-10 next to their name and I can hit that button to heal anyone low without keeping track of spam.  Personally I feel being able to parse information intelligently makes you a better healer than someone who tries to do it without customizing their client.

#advancedclericing

gnua

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #65 on: December 15, 2018, 06:22:06 PM »
these are the quickest fixes i can think of for making clerics great again:

1. remove legendary regen and legendary cloud from game, build a wall around those legendary ranks and make shamans/druids pay for it
2. improve base stats of healing mist, have it stack massively with healboost so that it can help the main tank much more than it does others in the room,
3. let clerics have healboost as well (probably circle 7)

Kam

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #66 on: December 18, 2018, 11:31:44 AM »
Geo plays a cleric every wipe and I don't think he uses scripts :). He stills seems to love it and I have never met a more reliable healer, except maybe Troggs - but he definitely script healed.

Geo has never been better than me. Don't let him tell you lies!
The Troggs heal bot was also not as good as either myself or Geo, but it was pretty damn good.

Dagda

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #67 on: December 19, 2018, 10:35:24 AM »
Geo plays a cleric every wipe and I don't think he uses scripts :). He stills seems to love it and I have never met a more reliable healer, except maybe Troggs - but he definitely script healed.

Geo has never been better than me. Don't let him tell you lies!
The Troggs heal bot was also not as good as either myself or Geo, but it was pretty damn good.

I don't think you've ever healed me though :P. But my memory of my late 20s is blurry.

Matthew

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #68 on: December 22, 2018, 05:24:47 AM »
I agree that a clerics healing power in Arctic is still the best. Perhaps legend requirements could change etc but that is not what stops them from being fun to play. And while I do enjoy the challenge of healing a group I don't think its enough to make them FUN like other classes.

Clerics in Arctic feel like they were plucked out of Dungeons and Dragons, not Dragonlance. There's no diversity of gods or even alignment. I can't remember an evil priest in any Dragonlance book ever healing another being of anything. Some healed or regenerated their own wounds but I can't remember one ever healing another (its been a long time since i read them though, so feel free to correct that). Only Mishakal granted the healing power that the clerics of Arctic possess? I was in Delphon fighting Haemk, the priest there of Sargonnas who summons a fire elemental and thought at least the mobs are getting it right sometimes.

I would say "It would be fun to have this diversity" but I can tell you from playing other muds that it IS. Each god is very unique and this can be reflected in the power and purpose of their followers. Dark Knights and Paladins can or could share in some of this as well. It's even possible to implement a 'worship' for every class, each god granting a boon conditionally or through clerics/dks/paladins. Or quest lines like the lily/crown/rose/sword quests for each god.

Another thing to note is that most of them are a melee class, yet they have no melee skills. I wouldn't imagine a cleric of Mishakal is much of a melee fighter though.

Clerics are restricted to blunt weapons and the weird 'misc' category, but in the books they used a multitude of weapons including daggers, swords and even spears or tridents. We even have evil priests in the game armed with knives etc. They can all wear a shield and yet all they can do with it is represented by the shields stats.

Anyway, I say this because Arctic has gone through some massive transformations while I was away and thought, why stop now.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 05:27:25 AM by Matthew »

Kadaj

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #69 on: February 15, 2019, 06:20:32 AM »
One thing that just came to me that would make clerics pretty cool and reactive, what if they had a skill or spell that would allow them to 'force' someone to stand.

Everyone hates getting bashed, playing a tank, that's the number one WORST flipping thing, I hate it. It would be cool if clerics could 'uplift' or 'command' them to stand up, it wouldn't have to remove their bash lag but it could at least allow them to continue to breach/guard/fence. Just a random thought.

Oligo

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2019, 02:22:22 PM »
Geo plays a cleric every wipe and I don't think he uses scripts :). He stills seems to love it and I have never met a more reliable healer, except maybe Troggs - but he definitely script healed.

Geo has never been better than me. Don't let him tell you lies!
The Troggs heal bot was also not as good as either myself or Geo, but it was pretty damn good.

You guys have clearly never played with my heal bot(s).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 02:24:52 PM by Oligo »

gnua

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2019, 04:49:31 PM »
One thing that just came to me that would make clerics pretty cool and reactive, what if they had a skill or spell that would allow them to 'force' someone to stand.

Everyone hates getting bashed, playing a tank, that's the number one WORST flipping thing, I hate it. It would be cool if clerics could 'uplift' or 'command' them to stand up, it wouldn't have to remove their bash lag but it could at least allow them to continue to breach/guard/fence. Just a random thought.

you want power word stand to load on mom or something?

hanlon

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2019, 05:40:11 PM »
Even if people did enjoy playing Clerics what's the point when they are basically impossible to legend due to their spell loads being super low and just all around bad? You can legend a druid or shaman 10x faster and their spells aren't god awful to load! I've glymmer around 100 times and not seen one book. You screwed up Amity and removed it from the game for whatever reason and I  have been forced to all learn that Trash crap zone COT and even that load rate is abysmal. If you want to make clerics fun again give them better spells and better spell load rates. I mean how many times has anyone see a book load in Irda or Bmombs this wipe and how many times have you run those zones? I think i've seen 3 books and maybe ran each about 40x. You could also give Shamans and Druids the cleric treatment and nerf the hell out of their loads rates. Maybe put healing wave on Soth and Remove healing cloud from Raven shadow.  Add heal cloud to the end of Mithas or something. In order words just make it impossible for shamans or druids to load AOE heal spells. Kinda like what you guys did for stun and nightmare. Just make it impossible!

gnua

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #73 on: February 20, 2019, 04:37:15 PM »
I've glymmer around 100 times and not seen one book.

Yikes, I thought it wasnt so bad when I saw two books on my first 3 glymmer runs.

Terk

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Re: Clerics?
« Reply #74 on: February 21, 2019, 04:50:22 PM »
I used to play clerics, because being a decent one made it super easy to get into groups and form groups. In the old days they had a few things really going for them in high end solo play and small group play: blind/poison/darkness and hard hitting weapons/animates/gates were a combination that could let you do a ton of stuff. Based on the feedback here it's obvious all this aged out pretty quickly.

I feel like ever since Templars were invented though I've been missing the feel of a faith system for clerics. Clearly clerics should be somewhat faith based and attuned to specific capabilities by alignment.

I generally agree that they should all be excellent at primary healing and group healing.
One spell type that would likely help immediately would be
'revive' - sort of like last chance but 80% HP upon death blow and with no penalty. [Maybe a 1 tick cool down on reapplication?]

I think except for evil clerics, clerics should generally primarily excel by working with others.

Good clerics should specialize in character defensive buffs--evade physical, evade magical, hp shields/wards.
Neutral clerics should specialize in character buffs offensive--damage augmentation/backstab mod boost, group fast mem/mental acuity, group slot expansion, spell power modifications etc.
Evil clerics should get animate/gate and poison/frag ability specializations allowing them to be elite damage dealers, but more selfish in strengths.