Author Topic: rank 25 required for legend  (Read 7395 times)

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Kadaj

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2018, 05:56:23 AM »
I 100% agree with some of your posts, Eddie.

After playing a druid to legend and multiple mages to legend, the commune skill is by far superior to the spell mental acuity. I think deep focus could maybe be changed to have this affect and casting mental acuity would just increase the chance of it working.  Perhaps reworking fireball, color spray, cold snap to actual be worth memming would be nice. Mages are just absolutely useless in groups until they get spells and even then.....there's really no need to bring them since they can't repeatedly cast spells over and over like a druid with commune can. 

On the topic of Boon....while I agree, it's crazy to be able to cast that with the orb, isn't that part of the fun? Going on fun little missions with an orb and seeing what you CAN solo? That was about 90% of my wipe last wipe on Lloth, just pushing it to the limits to see what I can/can't solo. It was part of the fun and power of having a dragon orb.

Weapon changes....while I think this wasn't meant to be so drastic, some of the changes didn't make sense.  A lot of the items got gutted pretty bad, while some remained the same (which made them far better than 'better' weapons) and some got buffed that didn't need it. I think the change to most 2 handers in the game wasn't necessary and made only a handful of two handers worth loading and using. 

I like the ability to play two characters at once and I think it DID change the bot squads.

I also agree with the ring damages being increased and maybe raising the limit on wrist damages, not all but some of the easier to get ones.

eddiex

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2018, 12:07:02 PM »
Dragon orbs existed well-before boon ever did.  There are only 3 in the game and 2 of them 50% of the mud (at least will never even get a sniff of).

They are extremely powerful even without boon and always have been.

While I am against making the game more grindy, having a game-breaking power spike and capacity which two other characters have to me is out of line.  This disparity only exists when dragon orb chars can boon.  Otherwise they will at least need some support.

I have no argument that being able to solo high level content normally impossible to achieve is fun.  it is. like when I found a bug to get unlimited plus dam from legendary strike and one striked sleet, soth, ochre, etc. this doesnt mean it shouldn't be fixed.

just take a look at the NPCs. None of them cast boon because it is OP and makes you nearly unkillable.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2018, 12:13:03 PM by eddiex »

Shannow

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2018, 12:08:12 PM »
The more I think about it the more frustrating it is. (I know I know no ones forcing me to play). Half the fun of legending is getting an exotic and legending that. Rank 25 twice now? blergh.

You folks have made a lot of great changes but I don't think this one was a good one. I also understand it's a tough balance between making the game fun vs making it to easy. Arctic is already decently hard, I wont even advocate for removing non-recoverable DTs after hitting one today :).

Let's just put it back at rank 20 and enjoy the heck out of our 2 man teams!

remi

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2018, 02:35:36 PM »
Rank 25 for legend would be OK if the requirement for legendary exotic race was rank15. 


--OR--

I also like the idea that someone mentioned of simply converting your current race legendary character into the exotic race of choice (with set stats str/con, etc etc.)


From the rank vendor NPC: 

#80 Cost 0 rp, cost 100,000  (convert your current race to irda)
#81  Cost 0 rp, cost 100,000  (convert your current race to dargonesti)

something like that.  Just have the stats be stagnant so say Irda cleric always has stats 13 21 21 15 16 17 (just an example) and they aren't randomly rolled so you have to keep converting your race to roll better stats.




el conquistador

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2018, 07:03:02 AM »
seems like the players are in close to 100% agreement on something!  how often does that happen?

i hate to be so negative but it turns out the dragon changes are awful too.  i know the changes are intended to improve the game and keep it interesting for a longer period of time, but they have been completely devastating to my group of friends. 

so legendary and exotic races are now basically closed to us.  rank 25 has never been reached by 4/5 of our group.  and with the dragon changes it seems a number of zones we could barely sometimes do at the peak of our powers are off the table as well.  its like our progress in the game has been set back 6 years.

all of our goals at the start of the wipe are gone and being unable to do zones we used to be able to win, i really dont see how we can keep playing.  please reconsider these changes.  think of the casuals!

Kadaj

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2018, 08:38:54 AM »
"Make legend Rank 20, then stagger the legend ranks with requirements for rank 21, 22, etc (probably put one of the better legend ranks either also at 20 or at 21).  This gives you a reason to grind out rank 20+ even if you may never make rank 25."

I think this is an awesome idea. If it's easily changeable this wipe, that gives people who are already rank 25 all the ranks they would want and give a pretty needed morale boost to the players who shudder at the thought of rank 25 being legend(sounds like most everyone).  I know I would be more inclined to rank my guys up if I knew that was the case. I'd WANT to grind to 25 to get the legendary ranks, not just get legend, get some ranks and boom. Done.  Good idea.

Hoodoo

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2018, 09:08:37 AM »
Dragons need an actual tank, with apply, and resists, etc, now.  That's not a bad thing, unless you play a barb and can't load the Man Sized Penis set (Gramm does love this set.)  I love the dragon changes; new dragons are some of the most fun fights.  Rank 25 fo4 legend, now...  yeah, that was an overreach, and a noble experiment, but one we now need to accept as a learning experience and revert, as literally the entire playerbase hates it. 

When a change is poor, fix it.  Don't just stand proudly, testicles thrust aggressively forward, chin stubbornly set, and bask in your own mistakes like Hoss (I am specifically reminded of the time he managed to bapt an entire wipe rush by setting beginning stats to an average of 14, and then laughed at suggestions he should.. you know... fix his baptup)

Shannow

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2018, 02:00:15 PM »
"Make legend Rank 20, then stagger the legend ranks with requirements for rank 21, 22, etc (probably put one of the better legend ranks either also at 20 or at 21).  This gives you a reason to grind out rank 20+ even if you may never make rank 25."

I think this is an awesome idea. If it's easily changeable this wipe, that gives people who are already rank 25 all the ranks they would want and give a pretty needed morale boost to the players who shudder at the thought of rank 25 being legend(sounds like most everyone).  I know I would be more inclined to rank my guys up if I knew that was the case. I'd WANT to grind to 25 to get the legendary ranks, not just get legend, get some ranks and boom. Done.  Good idea.

+100

Quid

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 02:25:16 PM »
Right, my 2 cents, revert legend back to rank 20, I made my first char to get access to exotics (along with many others), but then it took ages and I sort of lost interest along the way.

Bring back 10 mans, not gonna comment any further on that, just do it pretty please with sugar on top.

Regarding the changes to twohanders, so many of them doesn't make sense anymore, spire twohander was good but with the drawback on being heavy, now gladly it vendors for alot since I can get the same amount of stats by spending 3 minutes in Neraka and I can twohand it with 15 strength rather then 26, while some of the truly awesome ones has a low limit.

My 2 cents, take em or leave em.

/A bad player :D

Gnua

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2018, 03:47:04 PM »
"Make legend Rank 20, then stagger the legend ranks with requirements for rank 21, 22, etc (probably put one of the better legend ranks either also at 20 or at 21).  This gives you a reason to grind out rank 20+ even if you may never make rank 25."

I think this is an awesome idea. If it's easily changeable this wipe,

It sounds like it would be tedious to implement.  Just like unlocking exotics at rank 15 might be tedious to implement.

oom

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2018, 04:57:09 PM »
Since this seems to have turned into a "what I like/dislike about the current wipe" thread I figured I would chime in.

First I want to say thank you. I love this game, I love the people who make it possible to play and I love all the other players, even the ones I love to hate. I don't want to be an ass and seem ungrateful. I'm just going to lay it out honestly.

I like to think I have a fairly unique point of view. I rush hard for the first month and once RISE gets bored/deleted I go into a more casual mode and re-join my MYTH friends.

I would say that ALMOST universally the rank 25 situation has been hated by both the top end players and the casual players(at least in my circles). I was excited to actually try out a few classes this wipe(since I can play 2 now!) but those extra 5 ranks honestly kind of scare me off. Back in the day level 28 used to be where you needed to be to do high end zoning and actually contribute to the group. Rank 25 is the new level 28, at least for some classes. As previously stated. The less time I have, the less grind I want to put up with. I have less time than I used to, the game seems to get grindier every year. This may have caused more playtime for people initially but the burnout is real.

As far as druid/mages whatever. I'm fine with druids being strong, are they a little OP? Yeah, but I think that's OK for the most part. Maybe they should do less spell damage IDK, but I love that there is another viable healing option. Maybe give clerics something to make them more fun for people, I still think Cleric is #1 healer guild but it seems like so many people hate to play them.
Mages are a weird class. It seems like everyone wants to play one, no group leader wants to group one. I say delete them and give locate object to Clerics.

The dragon changes are absolutely fantastic. Huge props or kudos or whatever it is these days. The ability to go dragon hunting and actually load some neat items is really fun. It was a fun to kill them in RISE and it is fun to kill them in MYTH. Very nicely done. I really think the dragons were my favorite change of the wipe.

Dragon Orbs: Boon or no?
Answer: Who the hell cares? Is there a single player (other than Eddie) who is kept up at night because somewhere there might be someone soloing Frosty? Yeah it's a huge boost, especially if you manage to get one early. And yes, if there was no boon I could have worn real equipment instead of +ints because I wouldn't want some dumb +slot held item. But uhh where was I? Oh yeah, if your clan is doing Cyan and Sleet the orb really ain't that game breaking anymore, just a ton of fun.

Weapon stats: Seriously guys? We're doing this again? OK, obviously this isn't as bad as one of the "Lost Wipes" arctic had under Hoss but why was this done? Was the person in charge of doing the weapon stats in a really big rush to finish? Were 2handed weapons seen as generally overpowered in some way? As Dan mentioned it seems like most of the mid-range high end weapons were overlooked thus making them better than actual high end items. I initially did some bug/idea reports as requested in some post somewhere but quickly stopped because I realized basically every item that was changed was no longer something I was interested in having. I just.. I honestly feel like taking weapons like Nightbringer ,Spider Mace, Every 2 Handed Weapon, and seeing what they were turned into(at least initially) almost seems like a slap in the face to old school players. And it wasn't done with much, uh, balancing? Like if a weapon is now basically on par with an enchanted coral longsword maybe lower the weight to 18 instead of 25+? I don't know.

2 Char Limit: Brilliant. Who's idea was this? Give him a raise.

Group Size: I'm good with 10, good with 8, fine with 6/12. But if making group sizes 10 means characters must be nerfed I would rather keep them at 8.

+ damage items: It seems like effort was made to remove some +dam items or to nerf them to the point of having negative value(looking at you +15% damage received). I disagree with this concept. Another change that only really hurts more casual players. If you're "serious" and know all the zones in the game 2 wrist/ring damage isn't an issue. Restore Thorbardin items to their rightful place of glory, they are harder to load that wrist bucklers and spiked wrist bucklers, and ashen stone rings, and mahagony rings, and silver caudaciaousatasdf rings, frosted tin ring with boon, etc..
Change the name of the Death Helmet, it hurts too much when I lore it now.

What else am I missing? Oh yeah! Spell loads.

Frosty should not load the same spells as darken wood roots. I didn't get a cheat dragon orb that can cast boon just to solo Frosty for mass refresh, for a druid I don't have. But honestly, druid spell loads seem a little interesting, but uh I guess I don't mind really. I think maybe some of the higher level mobs should load better spells but druids seem fairly easy to spell up compared to other classes.

Did anyone else think Shaman spells were exceptionally hard to get this wipe? I got fairly lucky but man, ritual voyage was a hard to find spell and lead to some uh, pretty emotional outbursts do to frustration at times.

Oh yeah, rank xp day one: I think the no rank accumulation for the first week or whatever was brutal. Just made early rush soul crushing. I hated it. I also think that the people hurt the most by this are the more casual players. Rise/Core are gonna be hitting fresh ranks every day regardless. Myth I think, is honestly still recovering from missing out on those free ranks day 1.

All in all, I think Kam's first wipe has been pretty awesome. Dragons are sweet as hell. 2 character per IP is a change that will quite possibly be seen as the thing that ultimately saved the mud(by ending the bot squad reign, and increasing the zoning power of people without messing with group size/zone strength). Druid revamp was fantastic. Shaman nerf was correct(did you guys fix transmography yet?)

Just uh, undo those gross weapon changes(most of them at least).

eddiex

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2018, 09:15:24 PM »
2 char limit = my idea. check the forum history.

Gnua

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2018, 10:31:47 PM »
Cleric is #1 healer guild but it seems like so many people hate to play them.

I think the #1 reason that people dont play clerics is that only zone leaders have a reasonable chance at legending a cleric.  i remember early in the wipe when people were asked to rent their bots to make room for real people, people would rent their healer and the group would be without cures.

Jorake

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #28 on: October 31, 2018, 05:35:18 AM »
I was maining a cleric!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 09:12:12 AM by Jorake »

el conquistador

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Re: rank 25 required for legend
« Reply #29 on: October 31, 2018, 07:12:17 AM »
im all for making new challenges in the game but i dont see why existing zones had to be upped in difficulty.  the dragon buffs have made fun new fights and new items for the strong players and completely removed fights and multiple zones from the weaker players.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 07:15:39 AM by el conquistador »