August 10, 2018 --- PWIPE!

[Matt]

“I have sinned enough against the world. Teaching magic to a Kender would ensure my damnation.”

-Raistlin

[Tajs]

Kender mages?! Just no.

But on the other hand I'd be curious to hear if there's any progress on the new scouts? (they probably won't be ready for wipe, but still)

Also when will there be news on wipe changes in general?? :)

Tajs

[hanlon]

Just say no to kender mages. What everyone truly wants is a Kender Paladin!

[reed23]

While everyone is putting in requests - can i request that Barbs get target?  Bigger fights, they get agro'd onto the wrong mob and then are completely screwed.  If they could target, you might see a resurgence in them being used as DPS, not just tanks.

[Gnua]

“I have sinned enough against the world. Teaching magic to a Kender would ensure my damnation.”

-Raistlin

how about kender paladins then?  the elder fantra has wandered hylo for over 20 years without throwing krynn into chaos. Furthermore, the kender have a strong relationship with Paladine through Fizban

[Hoodoo]

I am going to release some harsh truth here. Target to barbs? You, sir, should have words with your dealer, as he clearly laced your shit. Barbs are, in their stated role as tank and in an area dps role, are OP, currently, especially in the tank role. Because of u nbalanced values in 1 skill primarily, the statement "I'd rather have a naked barb than <insert other tank class>, while still hilariously uninformed, isn't totally without merit. 

We should have a variety of viable tank classes, and to be honest,  we do.  However, barbs are visibly, obviously overbalanced in regards to innate tanking advantage. They certainly, obviously, do not need more advantage.

[Gnua]

the statement "I'd rather have a naked barb than <insert other tank class>, while still hilariously uninformed, isn't totally without merit. 

I'd pick a steelskinned scout/warrior/paladin/darknight/white robe over a legend barb as main tank every time (your ocean scout was a great example of a better than barb main tank).  when i lead, the main reasons i choose the barb main is:  they are the only steelskinned character in group, they generally dont whine if their gear frags.

i'd play a barb if rescue/wild dance/into the breach were all rolled into a single skill.  currently, barbs ought to rescue people and breach before dancing and the dance gets broken by mob death. as such, they spend over 80% of fighting time not dancing.  passive skills like shield block, fence, and stance when combined with steelskin make for a better maintank than a barb. barbs have great solo and 2man power though.  in my opinion,  all the tank classes seem to be ill-suited to maintainking for a large group:

barbarian:  dancing is active and competes with rescue into the breach
warrior:  ought to be bashing and, immblind + legendary bash ranks make it difficult to buy steelskin before rank 25
paladin: probably the best main tank but righteous indignation isnt always up and leaders often accidentally wreck the faith or need to devote extra attention to faith care when leading already requires a lot of attention
scout: hit points are a little low
dark knight: legendary dk ranks make it difficult to buy steelskin
white robe: no rescue skill

given the current tradeoffs (which in many ways makes for an interesting game), the best main tank seems to be a 700+ hit point steelskin scout or a steelskin dk.  i personally choose paladin as main because faith can currently be fixed very easily.

[reed23]

All melee classes should have target.  If you wan't to make the argument that barbs shouldn't have target because they are going nuts, make target unavailable if you are wardancing. 

Also, i think there is a false belief in the arctic world that the current PVE is too easy.  Outside of late-wipe OLD, how many clans have killed Cyan, Sleet, Blazewight, Kracken, and other end-game content in the last 5 wipes?  I would be willing to guess very few.  The PVE is not easy at all, it just appears that way for OLD because they have rank 50 characters and every best piece of gear in the entire game. 

[muddeer]

Barb is fine as it is now.  Warriors, however, need some change to make them more useful as a main and more versatile.  Currently they are just bash specialists.  Pretty boring to play. 

I suggest we nerf Vigor and allow Fortress to be activated before a warrior is engaged in combat.  So he/she would be able to enter a room ready to parry even if bashed on entrance.

Melee classes on Arctic have become really over-specialized.  Bring back maining warriors!

[Jorake]

I would go with barbs having target. It isn't a reason ive never played a barb or multi'd one, but it makes a ton of sense.

I still prefer paladin tanks over anything listed, probably just based on saves and damage reduction from shieldblock. Guard is also tremendous skill.

Warriors... this class is pretty damn balanced. Vigor probably needs a slight nerf but everything else is on point. Assault on a buff warrior will out damage most other things in the game

And i rarely if ever let mages into my groups, i sure as hell am not going to let one tank;)

[Willoe]

Don't see a problem with barbs having target TBH. However I would say that  in to the breach is ridiculous, and so is wilddance. Barbs are strong, but target doesn't really help them tank better so who cares? If someone wants to bring a barb to do dps vs tank why shouldn't they be able to? With that being said I think buffing warrior parry wouldn't be a bad idea either!

[Hoodoo]

Target absolutely helps one tank. Lack of target is a significant balancing effect on multiple tank classes.

[reed23]

@Jorake - "And i rarely if ever let mages into my groups..."

I'd like to hear from you and Willoe and other clan leaders - 8 man groups.....

I think there are a lot of classes that are left on the sidelines because of the inherent limitations and constraints of 8 man groups.  Because of the limited group slots, the group basically sets itself: 1 tank, 1 shaman, 1 healer, 2 bashers, 1 paladin, 2 DPS.  You can exchange a couple spots in that group, but for the most part, it is what it is.

Classes like mages, druids, ocean scouts, thiefs, barbs (non-tank), even DKs have an extremely hard time making a group because they don't fill a "required" spot in the group.

I think if you opened up an extra 2 group slots, you would have a lot more likelihood of including these utility classes in groups.  Yes, maybe some groups would throw another two paladins or mountain scouts or warriors into the group.  But if i was leading a group, i'd be a hell of a lot more inclined to let a mage or druid or non-legend shaman or thief into the group instead of just summoning them in for the 1-2 things per zone i need from them.

[Jorake]

I agree. I’d like to see 10man groups come back. It’s only 2 spots and can add a ton of power to a group, but even with very few playing end of wipe, after renting bots etc there still
Wouldn’t be enough room by 2-4 spots to group folks who wanted to play. I would probably rather see
10 man groups than 2char ips

And yeah you’re correct. I will always take a damage dealer over a non legend black robe or any non legend druids. As for other mage paths, they can barely join even if they are full legend. All spells
Etc. it always just seems so wasteful. Legend thief can come. These are post legend groups btw. Before legend, I don’t much care who comes as long as I have a tank and cleric.

The sad part is... even though you can 4-5man something like glymmer or ochre at legend. I still wouldn’t take a mage even with open spots. They don’t do enough PvE damage to make wasting cures on them worth it. Something I’d consider is upping mage vs mob damage. I’ve played several games
Where casters do reduced damage to players and on par with scouts damage to mobs. So idk if that helps but it’s my thoughts.

[Hoodoo]

Or have your mage spec for durability.  I rarely need strong healing even on big area fights with my white robe.  Failing to see the utility and damage add aspects of mage debuffs, group buffs, transfer, etc, seems shortsighted as well.

I can say this with impunity, as you just said you never group my class. :)