Author Topic: What would it take to ever make me play again?  (Read 49345 times)

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Davy

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2013, 02:41:02 AM »
I'm going to buy Oblivion use all the cheat codes and never die because I like being all powerful without any effort. Then I'm going to mushroom stamp old lady's with my man part on their forehead, shake baby's and kick a dog to feel tough. I might discover the cure for cancer but I won't share it because knowledge is powerful and I'd rather be one with knowledge instead of having many to enjoy life with. If I don't get all of this I'm going to whine like a whore pissing fire from a bad case of the clap. Just saying.

Ymir

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2013, 11:26:24 PM »
I think Nasredin & Nostramazos have nailed a number of issues on the head.

Once upon a time most of the MUD populace that was heavily involved in exploring the game and learning the vagaries of the game. I reckon most of the players that still play this mud have been at it for over a decade.. ergo the complaints of mindless levelling to get to what they see as the end game of the high level zones and big bad gear... As Nostramazos and Nasredin have touched upon, for these players all the parts of the game that come before might as well be gone and done away with as an annoyance, i.e. the xp table. It has been worse and harsher but that didn't keep us away a decade ago.

For these players quite simply no big bad gear = a game not worth playing, losing it is losing the reason to play, ergo hissy fits and eventual quits either to the tedium of repopping decays or to regear after a pk loss, even though there is more elite gear available in game and a smaller competitive pbase to chase it than once was. As Nostramazos has also noted, all this repop is tedium because the point of the game is no longer to have fun in camraderie but to accumulate shinies and we have over the years of playing this game become so good that we now have so many that all we do is chase after it in the most efficient manner possible in the few hours that we can squeeze out of our busy lives for this game.

All that time feels wasted when we lose what we had. Especially now that we have grown older and life has cut into our available time. As Nostramazos noted the game has changed, but something they missed I think is the playerbase motivation has also changed, I think the very idea of what is fun or why we play this game has changed. The frustrations and cut-throat and merciless dynamics that once were even more in your face in this game, used to egg the earlier playerbase on to play more and to conquer. These for various reasons no longer drive us as most folk have at one point or the other overcome most of those challenges and moved onto the dynamics Nostramazos describes of efficienct zoning at high level zones. The attitude Nostramazos champions is, quite frankly strange and unreasonable.

Quite simply most of us still only playing for old times sake and the false sense of achievement that this can give, or some are just still playing to hang out with old friends for old times sake or even just habit. Those who didn't get to see the shiny gear or just followed the older players around before but are now finding that they must fill the shoes if they want to snag the shiny gear that once used to be hogged earlier by those now inactive. I'd posit it's not the game dynamics that have changed but the playerbase, after a decade or more really we just realized that we no longer want to climb that xp hill or eq hill for the 100th time unless it was made easier for us. if it was, it wouldn't truly be a challenge either, and so not really sure how much longer we would stick around. Case in point, the really short pwipe durations because zone, eq and spell levels have hit saturation so quickly.

Maybe it's just time to move on to something newer and fresher, a natural progression for players of any game.
Congratulations, you have won the game and boredom and tedium is the prize for continuing to play.

Kragg

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2013, 12:46:17 PM »
Some GREAT stuff in this thread.

Some simple, quick ideas on ways to improve the game while LUBE grinds along.

1) Nerf relocate so you can only relo to group members and further restrict the ranges on all the track, temp path, hunt skills.  Also, improve opt anon to include all levels up to legend (legends would have to declare).  Legalizing botting could then be considered as it would be possible for others to play the game unmolested.

2) change the rent system so you can play this game casually without so much of a cash restriction.  75% bonus if your rent is under 500 coins per day and 50% if its under 750 with any bonus negated if you have a limit 5 or better item on the character.  If you play this game lots, cash isn't a problem.

3) Have the website/forum display the number for all players rather than for all visible players so the number isn't quite so pathetic.

I haven't played seriously for 15 years and its pretty early in the morning but I think these changes would help matters. 



Oligo

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #48 on: June 24, 2013, 03:36:25 PM »
1) Nerf relocate so you can only relo to group members and further restrict the ranges on all the track, temp path, hunt skills.
There have been enough nerfs to mages over the years that the days of an uber mage like Salnik, Loafie, or Kiaransalee terrorizing the mud are over between the whole casting level system, the conclave system, and relo lag nerfs. With the needed nerf on mage area damage, even threats like Isabella no longer exist. With the aggressor flag system and timer, there are enough safeguards. Arctic is one of the few full-loot games with PvP and PvE. There are enough PvE only games, no need to neuter Arctic into one.

If you play this game lots, cash isn't a problem.
Cash is very much class dependent and dependent on which inn you call home. Rent can range from 0.8x to 2.0x. Barring thieves, cash is a problem for a lot of classes and is just one of the many grindy aspects of the game unless you dedicate zoning to farming coins. Legending a char with full ranks is $300k+. If you are part of a clan, then you have stronghold assets to worry about. When BSP made their SH in Neraka a couple wipes ago, you need about $3m just to get it off the ground and be functional. Some clans play where the chieftain loots for the entire zone and doesn't split coins. So I think your statement is a gross over-generalization. If for example you are an elite 10+ dam warrior. You can't solo for coins because you're a big pk target and when you do log with your clan, you're too busy popping your decays to farm for coins and your rent is probably anywhere from $8-12k+/day.

Anyone with 500 or 750 coins rent is only renting glowing recalls.
A mid-tier set of eq ranges from $4-6k and an elite set is $8k+/day.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 03:57:44 PM by Oligo »

Kragg

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #49 on: June 24, 2013, 05:29:06 PM »
Hey Oligo

Points taken and I agree with all of that but

1) I was thinking of people starting out with the low rent discount or the people who want to play 5-10 hours per week.  As you point out, this would have no benefit/down side to the mid or advanced player.  At least that casual person could wear a budget set up.  Most people have real lives now and we would see more old faces hang around if there was an option for them between nothing and mud all the time.

2) The relo attack is such murder on new/casual players that I think its worth nerfing it.  Mages can get buffed elsewhere.  The other ways of finding a player take effort and there would need to be a reason to spend that effort.  I also disagree there is much a new or casual player can do about relo bombings (1: in how it pinpoints your position, 2: the new/casual player's relative level of knowledge, and 3: the defense spells mages have).   And who cares about balance?  Right now, which class is balanced? And if you think of one, what is it balanced with?  I imagine those are all LUBE questions.

3) I have trouble envisioning how that nerf would negatively impact PVP hugely.  Nerfing relo and enhancing opt anon may improve PVP overall because a beaten clan could start new characters and build up more effectively than present.    I, as I pointed out, haven't been around much and may be naive about it all.  It seems to me though, that after a few huge battles, everyone quits playing and is waiting for the next wipe. 

4) That nerf could open the door a crack to multi play and botting being allowed in the future.

I don't know really, I just want to generate some really easy and quick ideas to help change the feeling that mud death phase is upon us while LUBE is in process.

I am not really sure why I even care but I seem to.

Jorquin

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #50 on: June 24, 2013, 06:06:24 PM »
if you're really worried about the trash pking, just increase flags to 35 mins

much harder to hide for that long

Oligo

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #51 on: June 24, 2013, 06:45:56 PM »

2) The relo attack is such murder on new/casual players that I think it's worth nerfing it. 

There are no new players to Arctic. There are only recycled players, ie. players who quit and return a few wipes later. The only player base Arctic has is its alumni and even some of those have been alienated, ie. Daniel or the Finns. Eventually over time, less players return and the active player base erodes, which is the current path Arctic is on.

If a true newbie joined Arctic, it would probably take them 15 minutes to find their respective guild in the revamped Solace, if they didn't even quit out before then, even with the guide.



Kragg

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #52 on: June 24, 2013, 07:47:00 PM »
re: new players

My, we are on the opposite sides of a few issues.  We should chat out of this forum sometime so its not a total thread hijack.

For sure not true on the no new players thing.  While inactive it was the only thing I cared to help with here and I firsthand interacted with them.

There are new players, or there were 2 years ago when I bothered with that so its probably still the same.  I stopped bothering because nobody else cared.  I would say there would be one or two true newbies (after checking their connection) that would come to light every second day or so.  For a variety of reasons, we just keep none of them-even the ones smart enough to self start.   For sure, none would reach a level you would notice in the parts of the game that most interest you.  Other muds peetering out etc could provide a trickle that we, for lots of reasons, don't take advantage of.  But whatever.

btown

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #53 on: June 24, 2013, 08:08:31 PM »
I know of a newbie who plays 5-6 hours a week..   a true green horn.  so they are out there..  he has quit several times to dead beating.
 

my little brother who is 14 also plays slightly and has leveled up to 15 I think last wipe with minor guidance.  he started to play this wipe but he doesn't like the xp changes and thinks it's now impossible to get back to where he once was..  level 16.   lol

Oligo

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #54 on: June 24, 2013, 10:43:43 PM »
I stand corrected on the no new newbies. But the underlying premise remains unchanged, the outflow of players exceeds the inflow of new players creating a net loss to the playerbase.

Kragg

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2013, 01:10:25 AM »
Absolutely agreed, outflow exceeds inflow.  Its not hard for outflow to exceed zero retention of new players and addicts becoming casual players as life happens.  We have managed that downhill slide for a decade even while the game mechanics have imo never been better.

Soo... back to my original post at grasping at quick, easy changes to increase the casual flow pre lube by making it at least possible for casuals and new players to play here.


Rezin

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2013, 01:31:46 AM »
First time poster, long time player, yes the mud has been losing players fast over the years...if we just focus on whats going on this wipe and why ppl are quitting so much...I have 3 friends that have recently tried either coming back and playing or just starting a new char to avoid the large clan pk wars, my first friend was pked at level 12 randomly by sob just cause they didn't recognize his name...my second friend started a new mage and was killed within 2 hours of starting before he even hit level 10, I think the most irritating thing about this wipe is the fact that these large clans get so hell bent on pking each other or finding 'unknowns' they start killing people who don't want to be involved.  A lot of us alumni or players come back don't want anything to do with the back and forth clan pk bullshit, we just want to explore stuff we used to know or play just for the love of the game, however these legendary mages or big clan randomers are literally trying to ruin any semblance of fun for everyone who may be playing...I don't know if they are trying to force a pwipe, or just get bored cause they are out of enemies who pose a threat cause instead of having fair battles they jump any clan that does 10 man zoning and has gear, I don't know if its been discussed but perhaps putting a restriction on clan tags from pking non clan tags, or maybe a clan declare war system, but these clans log 10 ppl and literally kill or bash anyone they come across, we all say and think that bots are being used and in a lot of cases it seems blatently obvious...it kinda seems like either theres no high level imms active any more, or they are just turning a blind eye to it, I remember 15 years ago if you had a large group going around killing anyone, basically randoming, some imm avatar would come wipe them out as a lesson, or if a high level randomed or killed people neutral or low level they would end up on a wanted board and attacked by any guards in any town...I think the xp changes are a great thing, I don't think every single player should have 10 legendary multis, make a character an actual effort that takes work, I think allowing ppl to start ranking way earlier than 1x and the fact that you lose a negligible amount of rank % when you die balances it out...fix the large clan kill anyone on the who list cause they MIGHT be your enemy problem, and I think a lot of people wouldn't have quit in the first place

Nostramazos

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2013, 02:03:11 AM »

 I am glad Kragg insisted on that point to correct Oligo. Yes, there are new players. This wipe, in Maza we had two total newbies and one returning (last time he played was 15 years ago). Had is a kw.

 I want to make clear that there have been, ever since I started playing, two trends in Arctic: a) the one that bigger clans follow, with competition for gears, spells and eventually pk and b) the one that smaller clans such as Maza Nostra and KOS, even the Horsemen back in the day followed, which involves less competition, more exploration and more death. Both are fun in their own way, I guess, and both follow a different mentality to the game. The fact that some hotshots could never group with the second group (because for example would get frustrated at how slow we moved through a zone) does not mean that the second group does not exist. Nor does it mean that somehow the second group has lost their way in the game and we only wish that a great leader with Humas all over his muscular greased body would lead us through all the zones in 15 minutes and gives us eq that we've been dying to learn.

 So if our way seems strange and unreasonable, let me tell you: as many of you know, you have been the butt of jokes and ridicule for a while now and if ever Suf allows for non-pk related logs then some of you will be so embarrassed...despite being no bash and 30damage.

 In the past Arctic could accommodate both. Us, making fun of you, and you, killing us.

 In the aftermath of a declining player base, then, we need to ask the question which of the two groups benefits Arctic the most and work towards their advantage. And there are indications that the group who still thinks Arctic is just a game and not a secret way that scientists, who are all now in prison for treason, discovered to enlarge small penises, is the one benefiting Arctic.

First and foremost, our clans have had the same clan names since ever since 96 which is a clue of the strong associations we carry into the game wipe after wipe. We identify with clan and friends. Secondly, we are not prone to hissy fits after losing our eq. We are not prone to hate after we get pkilled and whining. Thirdly, we cater to new players. Fourthly, by and large we do not cheat to get eq on our hands. We are consistent zones and we are there every wipe unless...

...the other group of eq freaks wants to chase us out for no particular reason. You see we don't want to waste time to pk people who are online (because they share or bot) 24/7. They want our eq but we don't have eq, so they just want to kill and they are relentless. So they are ruining our fun with the same determinism they stick their extremities in plugs to get a shock and a thrill. But they are also the ones who will quit out of boredom or because their best buddies has +1damage more than them and they hate him forever.

And while we are chased out, they are chasing themselves out.

Nostramazos Profit Ilias! 

Hoss

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2013, 02:04:47 AM »
I thought that this thread was for us to discuss Btown's hermetically sealed shame basket? Let's get back on that subject.

Jorquin

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Re: What would it take to ever make me play again?
« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2013, 04:44:29 AM »
instead of maza propaganda about why arctic communism works