Rising threat

[Mahku]

Bluk! Bluk! Bluk!

[el conquistador]

1. When PK can happen?
--This could be anything from 6 hours a day at set hours, to MWF, to Half day Saturday/Sunday
--Possibly this could be hardcoded by modification of the PK damage automatically.
--It could be made to more or less of a disadvantage to not log in during PK hours
2. Are there exceptions?
--Maybe talking shit in game in non-pk hours is not allowed
--Maybe low level chars can't be killed?
3. Number of limited items allowed to be taken
--This could be all items or just a few with corpse return to defeated party.
4. What are the punishments for breaking the rules
--Immortal intervention of some kind. Pdeletion? Damning? Character stat reduction?
5. How often are rules reviewed?
--Maybe earlier in the wipe the rules are more strict, but later in a wipe they loosen up?

saturday and sunday as the only pkill days sounds great to me.  but i think the result will end up being that i never play on those days.

and this might be an even bigger problem for the strong players.  with limited equipment and no_pk days, when the danes load humas shield and dragonorb, why would they ever log in on a pkill day?  the weekends will just be mud time for rise and friends. 

as i learn more about the rise situation it is a bit puzzling they got punished for attacking a group with such elite items with no warnings.  id certainly be upset.  its a tough problem but if they are not allowed to pkill, someone should definitely say so.

[Nostramazos]

Let's all pay attention to Thymorical as the epitome of the mud unfriendly individual.

Main characteristics is that he derives his vocabulary from online porn while playing botting the mud to such an extend that he has never actually pronounced those words to other individuals. This is the guy who would consistently scores 6 points at Scrabble because he can only form the word COCK.

Yes, he probably knows the text based botting game better than most but do you, the proverbial player of arctic, want to be that guy? Let's all feel sorry for him and try to make the mud a better place without him.

Nostramazos

[Kir]

Realise that this is probably the best of reads, so read it and hear my words!!

There is no Rise, or Wild, or Tarsis Shriners. The two defining characteristics of the big clans are their love for eq and domination. In this endeavour everyone has cheated, everyone has botted, everyone has fumed, everyone has flamed, and everyone has sworn at other players, their families and wished people dead. You know who you are. And to see some of you play the self-righteous card or  say if you get pkilled, you don't care about your eq is at least laughable. You care when you lose your gear to the point of paranoia and you have probably rage quit (a number of times) over it. 

Maza Nostra expresses it's unequivocal disdain towards all these players who cannot hold it together and who lose perspective over the fact that this is just a game. I ask for Jorquin to open up a thread with the title 'I'm sorry', where all of you will apologise to this mud for being such lowlifes and promise to do better in the future.

To Jorquin: To attack Rise as you did was a completely uninspired idea and plainly wrong. You and other immortals single-handledly put a dent to your efforts so far and contribute to the idea of immortals cheating for their friends. You have no reason to assist experienced players in pk, or exact revenge or showing anyone a taste of their own medicine. You are doing a great job as an immortal and the thread that you now opened is a step towards the right direction. But, I am sad to say it, you owe an apology to Rise, if you want to contribute in mending this Arctic community. Noone will think less of you because this is a game and not a power struggle. And by the way, fighting fire with fire only works in movies...with Stalone so go figure.

To RISE: It is true that by and large you have left most people on their own this wipe and probably the last wipe too. It is also true that in your efforts to be dominating and put text based eq in your text based heads, legs and hands, you have often being the utmost jerks. Understand that chasing people 24/7 has had an effect in the community and people have quit over it. You are responsible for this, don't believe anyone that says otherwise. And you did that by botting most of the time. But so have others before you, that now pretend to forget about it, because they are losing. Point is do not whine over why people treat you in a specific way. It will take some more time for people to understand the new you, if such thing exists. However, you have every right to whine for when others are breaking the rules to chase you. I say whine, because with the exception of Tim, that is the level of your writing and arguments. English classes for the lot of you.

PK of course has been at the heart of this controversy over a number of wipes and over a number of wrong and uninspired immortal interventions. It is still a valid aspect of the game but with a diminishing player base it is a double edged sword. Most people love pk when they win or when they win after they have lost. And most people hate pk when they lose..consistently. Yes, you got it right. They are the same people.

You have to give the option to people with some coding (I can bring back my slave Adepali for this, he owes me!) to allow players to choose a PK FLAG upon creation. This would make a char free of pk and it would not be able to change. Allow them to legend as much as they can but restrict them on eq they can use/and or getting items that are important to gain access to important gear. Have them group only with other non pk characters. I don't know, just brainstorm on how it would work.

I would definitely choose this option because I suck at pk, there are dts around and unless I fight against one person, I cannot read all that shit so I really have no idea what is going on. AND, I know some of you think that this bruising is mad, but as Maza, we always bruised our opponents. I would only support pk if there are breads involved. Go and see how Maza and the Horsemen destroyed the other eq freaks, the Shriners in a fight that stayed in the ages. The logs are still online.

So these are my two cents. Make Arctic fun again, stop the bitching, and realise that Maza is the best clan. Then it is KoS. And then it is Maza again.

Nostramazos, Dark Adept of Little Pony

I agree with a lot of what you said and others who bring up great points here. But the point that must be made:

IT IS NOT RISE'S FAULT THAT PK IS NOT COMPETITIVE OR BROKEN. IT IS A LONG HISTORY OF POOR IMMORTAL CHOICES THAT baptED THIS GAME UP.

IMMORTSL TOOK PWS/PRISM/NIGHTMARE FROM YOU: PWS,Prism and recently nightmare were the great equalizer. PWS and Prism spells loaded on easy to pop places like Lord Noom that mid-tier clans like Fury and RoT could pop. Then pws\nightmare book was moved to shards quest, again attainable by low-mid level clans. Rise started out as a small crew and eventually defeated Wild\Oxen on a few people using these spells even though we were significantly outgeared and got beat up the whole wipe prior to that. Without access to these spells (also blastwave) we would have NEVER won a 10v10 battle and never had the chance to close the gear\spell\knowledge gap.

IMMORTALS made groups 8 man, so most of the player-base could no longer do endgame content, therefor not having any chance to pop elite gear\spells. In the current game structure, the average rise dps has 12-18 dams and can barely do endgame content. The average player has absolutely no chance at this. Do not blame rise for this, we popped the gear we needed to do these zones because its the only way possible, again not our fault.

IMMORTALS changed the xp require to level 30 from 90 mil to whatever absurd grind it is now, making YOU have to play more to compete with us.

IMMORTALS nerfed saving throws, nerfed paladin\scout\warrior\mage\dk dps so that you NEED elite eq AND LEGENDARY (which is also a huge grind) to zone. Back in the day, level 26 was all it took to be high level zoning ready and pk ready. AGAIN NOT RISE's FAULT.

IMMORTALS made it so load % are low as bapt so you can't get any decent eq or spells, not Rise.

Back in the day, all of us oldschool players remember many pkillers in the solace sewer who pked every newbie they came across. No immortal intervention was done about this unless they were killing like 30+ people per day. The Rise "attitude" of today is ABSOLUTELY no where near in comparison to those days, and if you think otherwise you didn't actually play back when this game was fun or you are a complete and utter moron.

In summary, you are blaming Rise for a bunch of things that is not in our control nor our fault. We didn't ruin this game for you, poor decisions by the staff did.

[Jorquin]

I'm not going to weigh in much for now, but this discussion is good.

[Dagda]

Kir - you still have a choice in your actions however. You as a group choose to jump people before they can adequately defend themselves. This isn't war - this isn't simple pk - this is bullying. Making people walk the plank? Seriously - that's bullying. That causes people to quit the game.

So perhaps the Imms are bullying you now and you feel upset about it. Imagine how your 'victims' have felt.

[Zozen]

This is literally the best damn thread I've read on this forum in years! So much passion for the MUD and I can only see that as a good thing.

...

1. When PK can happen?
--This could be anything from 6 hours a day at set hours, to MWF, to Half day Saturday/Sunday
--Possibly this could be hardcoded by modification of the PK damage automatically.
--It could be made to more or less of a disadvantage to not log in during PK hours
2. Are there exceptions?
--Maybe talking shit in game in non-pk hours is not allowed
--Maybe low level chars can't be killed?
3. Number of limited items allowed to be taken
--This could be all items or just a few with corpse return to defeated party.
4. What are the punishments for breaking the rules
--Immortal intervention of some kind. Pdeletion? Damning? Character stat reduction?
5. How often are rules reviewed?
--Maybe earlier in the wipe the rules are more strict, but later in a wipe they loosen up?

Terky

I like the thought behind limited pkill hours. Perhaps the bonus to logging during those hours is increase rank %, increase load % on elite spells/equipment/etc, bonus damage done to mobs? I don't know but some major bonuses to make it fun for those that log during those hours and give them huge incentives to log on during those 3-4 days.

Edit: maybe some zones are only linked during pvp days. Or the top equipment only reloads on those days.
----

WILD enjoyed the zoning aspects of the game a lot, it was a time to work together as a team to overcome a zone creators mind especially the end game content that was added over the last few years (hello Sanjuro.) The problem that started happening over the last 6+ years is as has been described above...Couldn't compete on hours and pvp is all about hours in the game.

Cheers,

Sean

[Willoe]

IMMORTSL TOOK PWS/PRISM/NIGHTMARE FROM YOU - The reason this was done because literally every single one of you had a trash mage to bapt with peoples zoning. Yes it's a great way to be able to kill your enemies and close the gap, however, when you have 10 poofing stunning mages to a group of players to completely kill their zoning something needs to change.

8 Man groups - Something you and I agree on Jack...This was done to try and make content harder given how strong legendary characters are, however it now isolates people and makes it harder for some to get in to groups.

The EXP tables - Honestly not that big of a deal...the skilling is horrendous however...none of us have the time to sit there and train field medic or disarm for 20+ baptin hours.

Saving throws - Really just to combat trash...don't think it impacts the game much given how easy it is to exp(so long as you don't have Tim poofing to you and asking you who you are while lvling)

Load rates- I agree, its really frustrating how many times it takes to run something to repop or load it...However when looking at the big picture to try and make sure another clan has a shot at getting some gear in a zone, it's really not that bad. I'm frustrated as hell we didn't get those robes when we ran vermi, just as I'm sure you're frustrated as hell about not having all of the dragon  orbs, but what can you do.

Back in the days of oldschool pking- We just aren't there anymore Jack. The game population has gotten a lot older and people simply don't have the time for it. There used to be a lot more people playing, and you'd have a clan like Shriners or BSP go bapt up that person pking in sewers and self regulate. This just doesn't happen anymore. I remember thinking to myself when I saw what Joe was doing that we should just go and bapt him up, then I was like well...If we get flagged RISE will come and smash us and its not worth it.

With that being said, you guys are the undisputed top clan. You guys put in the hours and reap the rewards. Congrats(honestly, no sarcasm). There is room for more then one clan to have some good gear and play this game. You would probably find that if you left us alone you'd have more of that pk that you so desire.

At the end of the day you are right, PK is broken and not because of you...but you did take a part in why some of these changes happened. This discussion is great and hopefully we can come together as a community and find a way to all play together.

The reason that Daniel did what he did...I find it laughable how hard you guys are flaming him. There have been plenty of immortals in the past who have tried to slow down bigger clans either by controlling mobs and smashing them or simply pking them with cheat characters. This is not the first time. This is however the first time I feel that we have someone who is willing to listen to us and try to make changes to the game for the better.

Daniel smashed you guys not because you killed Tajs, though that was likely the trigger. Know that Tajs never asked for his help, and neither did we. In all honesty we did a pretty damn good job of avoiding you guys if not for me being an idiot and letting Eddie in to my discord while playing League(which I didn't know how to use). Fact of the matter is that you smashed Tajs while he was unsuspecting for simply helping me and lying about it. Sure its a kill worthy offense if you are in an active war, however you are the only ones fighting that war, we are doing are damnedest to simply try and avoid you guys.

You take a look at Wilds, now gone. You can say whatever you want about them not being here, and I may even agree to some extent with what you say, but the fact of the matter is you chased them off as well. You went after them wipe after wipe to where a lot of them simply said bapt it.

You take a look at Core, a shadow of its former self. You continuously hunt us and it has nothing to do with gear regardless of what you say. I pleaded with you last wipe to stop ambushing us, we had NOTHING. I pleaded with you guys for a sustained peace, I was lied to and we were ambushed again. I pleaded with you guys to just do some arranged battles if you wanted to pk...You continue to come after us and we have to lie to our friends and tell them we aren't playing just to try and play this damn game.


Go ahead and play the victim card, you aren't wrong, but it's also not all that black and white. Take some responsibility and lets work together in trying to make this game better.

[adepali]

I'm completely disconnected from the game these days, especially endgame, but I still think the best solution is:

• unlimited eq loads (with the current limit to be used as a rarity indicator that will affect load%)
• limited equip loss on death, that would have diminishing returns for pk (so it would decrease or reach 0 for some time after being pkilled)
• more opportunities to build up a character (special recipes or something, basically anything that people can work towards without competing with others)

[Nostramazos]

You have always being disconnected from endgame. The only endgame you've known is the main menu.

Nostramazos

[el conquistador]

I'm completely disconnected from the game these days, especially endgame, but I still think the best solution is:

• unlimited eq loads (with the current limit to be used as a rarity indicator that will affect load%)
• limited equip loss on death, that would have diminishing returns for pk (so it would decrease or reach 0 for some time after being pkilled)
• more opportunities to build up a character (special recipes or something, basically anything that people can work towards without competing with others)

yes please  :D

[Jorake]

I'm actually in favor of unlimited eq loads. If it's not a dragon orb or a nobash. Make it unlimited!

[Ezio]

Make corpses draggable, and you don't go to menu for two minutes. You can see who looted you and can be dragged to clerics and resurrected.

[Kir]

IMMORTSL TOOK PWS/PRISM/NIGHTMARE FROM YOU - The reason this was done because literally every single one of you had a trash mage to bapt with peoples zoning. Yes it's a great way to be able to kill your enemies and close the gap, however, when you have 10 poofing stunning mages to a group of players to completely kill their zoning something needs to change.

8 Man groups - Something you and I agree on Jack...This was done to try and make content harder given how strong legendary characters are, however it now isolates people and makes it harder for some to get in to groups.

The EXP tables - Honestly not that big of a deal...the skilling is horrendous however...none of us have the time to sit there and train field medic or disarm for 20+ baptin hours.

Saving throws - Really just to combat trash...don't think it impacts the game much given how easy it is to exp(so long as you don't have Tim poofing to you and asking you who you are while lvling)

Load rates- I agree, its really frustrating how many times it takes to run something to repop or load it...However when looking at the big picture to try and make sure another clan has a shot at getting some gear in a zone, it's really not that bad. I'm frustrated as hell we didn't get those robes when we ran vermi, just as I'm sure you're frustrated as hell about not having all of the dragon  orbs, but what can you do.

Back in the days of oldschool pking- We just aren't there anymore Jack. The game population has gotten a lot older and people simply don't have the time for it. There used to be a lot more people playing, and you'd have a clan like Shriners or BSP go bapt up that person pking in sewers and self regulate. This just doesn't happen anymore. I remember thinking to myself when I saw what Joe was doing that we should just go and bapt him up, then I was like well...If we get flagged RISE will come and smash us and its not worth it.

With that being said, you guys are the undisputed top clan. You guys put in the hours and reap the rewards. Congrats(honestly, no sarcasm). There is room for more then one clan to have some good gear and play this game. You would probably find that if you left us alone you'd have more of that pk that you so desire.

At the end of the day you are right, PK is broken and not because of you...but you did take a part in why some of these changes happened. This discussion is great and hopefully we can come together as a community and find a way to all play together.

The reason that Daniel did what he did...I find it laughable how hard you guys are flaming him. There have been plenty of immortals in the past who have tried to slow down bigger clans either by controlling mobs and smashing them or simply pking them with cheat characters. This is not the first time. This is however the first time I feel that we have someone who is willing to listen to us and try to make changes to the game for the better.

Daniel smashed you guys not because you killed Tajs, though that was likely the trigger. Know that Tajs never asked for his help, and neither did we. In all honesty we did a pretty damn good job of avoiding you guys if not for me being an idiot and letting Eddie in to my discord while playing League(which I didn't know how to use). Fact of the matter is that you smashed Tajs while he was unsuspecting for simply helping me and lying about it. Sure its a kill worthy offense if you are in an active war, however you are the only ones fighting that war, we are doing are damnedest to simply try and avoid you guys.

You take a look at Wilds, now gone. You can say whatever you want about them not being here, and I may even agree to some extent with what you say, but the fact of the matter is you chased them off as well. You went after them wipe after wipe to where a lot of them simply said bapt it.

You take a look at Core, a shadow of its former self. You continuously hunt us and it has nothing to do with gear regardless of what you say. I pleaded with you last wipe to stop ambushing us, we had NOTHING. I pleaded with you guys for a sustained peace, I was lied to and we were ambushed again. I pleaded with you guys to just do some arranged battles if you wanted to pk...You continue to come after us and we have to lie to our friends and tell them we aren't playing just to try and play this damn game.


Go ahead and play the victim card, you aren't wrong, but it's also not all that black and white. Take some responsibility and lets work together in trying to make this game better.

Lol Ilya... daniel didnt smash us... he proved we are the greatest arctic clan in the history of the game. We were so dominate compared to our peers that he had to turn a legendary pk mud into no pk. To say or believe anything else is simply drivel as those are the plain facts. Any flaming of Jorquin for his actions is more for ruining a great pk game or for the blatant cheating, but personally I take the no-pk thing as the biggest compliment that can be bestowed upon us.

My post was simply about making arctic more competitive in regards to pk. Again you people try to put the responsibility of making arctic fair and competitive on me but thats not my job as a clan leader, all I can do is make suggestions. My job as a clan leader is to lead zones, lead pk, get the best possible gear/spells for my clanmates, and win wars. Have you ever heard of an NBA player be penalized for scoring too many points? Of course not, that is absurd, as is blaming Rise for anything... if you think we are assholes then you should be able to kill us... thats how the game is supposed to work. Its the immortals jobs to structure the game so you can kill us.

[Vasagh]

Have you ever heard of an NBA player be penalized for scoring too many points?

.

No but I have heard of this one:

In 1984-85 the NBA instituted a salary cap in an attempt to level the playing field among all of the NBA's teams and ensure competitive balance for the League in the future.