Author Topic: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?  (Read 10958 times)

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Kadaj

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2017, 07:37:48 AM »
What druid thread wouldn't be complete without a good shitpost by the PK god himself, Bryton.  I agree that druids need some kind of buff, I mean I killed your legend druid this wipe with a lvl 30 white robe. Slumber OP. Some of your points were...half thought out. But just saying stuff like 'super lame for pk and zoning' and 'this one really bugs me because it's complete shit'   How is the staff going to look at this data and construct a new plan for improvement? 

Lightning storm should get a damage buff or a spec to perhaps paralyze for a round or 2, a very low chance but still fits the theme of lightning damage in most games.

Entangle "No restrictions on location of use." is what Legend entangle states. It also states that it is a thorny vine, I would like to see something similar to malevolent tentacles for this spell, a channeled damage spell that has a chance to restrict movement from the room. There's no resistance to gear toward this though, unlike tent and NPP.

Ice Storm This spell really does blow right now and I've said in the past it needs some love. The damage is either 10-20 damage or 40-50, very rarely on the latter. What would be cool is have it be a channeled spell again with a little increased damage. Having the spell tick for 40-70 damage per round would be a pretty awesome change. It doesn't necessarily need a spec but a cool spec it COULD have would be something similar to suspension field, reduces the haste in the room since you know, it's a bapting ice storm.

Insect Swarm This spell IS good when it actually hits but is negated by any damage shield (lightning/fire/ect) and stuff like acid mist and gust/tornado/constant winds. There could perhaps be a legend rank that allows it to remain in the room even with these factors. Something that allows it to stick around and actual deal dmg and not be dispelled by a lvl 7 mage guild spell.

Cultivate  If this spell landed more often and hit the group for the same amount of healing, that could add a cool aspect to druids. However it does fail quite a bit, the damage isn't super great and it's not a 'reliable' heal. It's not on demand healing, you have to plan ahead for it to actually work. I would like to see this spell have a 100% land chance and the heal be a little better, but right now on a 29 legend druid it heals for about 180. Still not bad for a group heal.

Healing Cloud  Probably why you think you are a good druid. The spell is retard proof. You don't need to spam the group list, you simply cast it and forget it. I don't believe it should hit twice every round but maybe if there was a way to have +healing done gear increase the chance of double clouds would be neat, a way to gear towards it. As far as needing a spec, I don't agree, you aren't primarily a healer like a cleric. You are there to support and give some off heals. Perhaps have it 'rain' for an additional heal or a remove poison or something if you feel a spec is necessary.

Primal Fury Although I'm not familiar with this too much, from what I understand it's still a group buff and still increases everyone's damage while removing the negative affects. I don't really think this should be a group buff, it just turns the druid into a primal fury bot with no thought process again. It's a retard proof spell. Maybe if it was a damage buff to a single person with a little better benefits or a damage reduction to the tank you could cast, that would be neat.

Tornado This spell is in a good spot I think. It has the ability to deal really nice damage, although it is random. I believe it still has the ability to be boosted with gust of wind or constant winds. I wouldn't touch that one, perhaps just allowing it to be cast indoors and not underwater would work, add a little more variety to zoning.


Druid Single Target Spells
Flame Shroud, Cone of Cold and Fire storm DO have similar damage to thorn spray. The average thorn spray is around 50 damage while the average flame shroud is 60. I would like to see the damage upped a little on Cone/Flame shroud and have the frag reduced a lot. I understand you are covering your target in FIRE but perhaps having Cone of Colds damage a little more consistent would replace the need to mem all flame shrouds. 

Call Lightning  The damage is only slightly higher than Flame Shroud and Fire storm. Averaging around 80. I would like to see maybe a daze/confusion or paralyze spec added to this. All specs added should be a fairly low chance of succeeding, but something to spice up the spell a little bit. The ability to cast it anywhere with Legendary Storm Cloud is a nice touch, even more so if specs are added.

Granite Hand This spell rocks. GET IT!   But I like the idea of having the potential for really good damage as well as really mediocre damage. Seeing all 4 hits on a target just FEELS like it's doing a ton of damage. I would maybe like to see this spell moved to 5th circle so you have to choose between ice storm area and direct damage granite hands. Maybe add a bash spec similar to force missile? I mean it's a giant bapting rock hand smashing into you.

Other Druid Spells

Stone Skin Only a very select few(I can think of only two) mobs should have the ability to penetrate stone skin. IF a mob has the ability to penetrate stone skin, the damage on those hits should be significantly reduced. There's no reason to have to switch up a druids mem mid zone just because 'this is imm to stone skin, let me swap out all my stones for something else' I think of a Dark Blessing type dmg reduction if the mob can hit through it. Also remove the petrify, it's 2017 people. That shit is old!

Temporal Path "In  most cases, the caster should not be far from the intended victim." If you can get close enough to cast this spell, you probably have a good idea where they are and don't generally need to cast it. It's a flavor spell and always has been. Sometimes it works great and sometimes it leads you to Solace. I don't think anyone is going to spend the time and energy to fix this spell.

Conjure Elemental Ahh, the classic conjure elemental. It's pretty shit. What COULD be cool is the higher level you get, the better the charmies were. I'm talking instead of the water nymph and bapting fire snake or shit pechs Randy, shit pechs, you got the elementals you typically would see from using a conjure stone. No druid is going to go out and farm those stones just to have a pet die in a zone to some area. I don't think druids need pets that can be ranked up like mages, but perhaps just having the ability to summon GOOD enough charmies that hit ok with weapons and have some minor skills would be a great addition.

Paralysis Although I don't agree with the inconsistent part (it will last 5 or 6 rounds, no more no less) it's still a great spell to mem. It tends to land quite a bit and with double spell power ranks I would imagine it's quite powerful, even for some zoning.

Summon Faerie  You are summoning a god damn faerie, unless you put it in a bottle it'll probably fly away.

Druid Equipment

"druid eq is complete shit"  This is....somewhat true. I think the real issue with druid equipment is either A. It shares the same class restrictions as clerics and shamans so they tend to take it over a druid or B. There's not a whole lot of 'druid specific' gear. There are a few niche items that have low maxes so if those are gone you are just kind of stuck with what you can get. Druids don't necessarily NEED good gear but a powerfully equipped druid sure is awesome to have around.

Druid Spell Slots
Finally, I can agree. 7th and 8th slots are jam packed with spells. What would be pretty nice and I think needed is introducing a 9th circle for druids. They have just as many spells as mages and one less circle to work with. Spreading out some of the spells will help ease the woes of not having + slot gear.


Druids can solo just fine, they aren't as fast as other classes but they still have the ability to. It certainly is a lot easier to group and level. As far as not being taken into groups, perhaps with a few of these changes to spells, slots and gear we could see a little more love from druids.

These are just my thoughts on the problems posted above. You may not agree with them but at least give the immortals something to work with.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 07:43:15 AM by Kadaj »

oom

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2017, 09:31:54 AM »
Cloud was way to powerful when it hit twice per round. I have no idea what the person saying shamans can heal the whole group for 200 a round. Where do i pop that spell?

Think Reed was talking about Healing Wave when all group members are boosted.

My healing waves were doing MAYBE 140hp per round with everyone boosted and wearing a ton of +% healing done eq. Reed rounded that up to 150hp and JPimpin rounded that up again to 200.

I haven't played a druid but from the outside looking in I would say it seemed to me the biggest problem I saw with druids is they had some useful spells but they never seemed to be able to mem enough of them in combination. Maybe lowering some of the top end spells a level could help?

I'm sorry I greeded the shadow orb from you Bryton, the RISE spirit took hold of me a bit I gues... Think of all those slots...

Just stop all this stupid talk about nerfing shamans OK Kadaj!!!

Kadaj

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2017, 09:50:27 AM »
Well you can't advocate the buffing of an under performing class and not the nerfing of an OP one!

Kir

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2017, 04:07:07 PM »
Not that I want to get involved in this argument about healing but as people have pointed out: if healing wave heals each person for 140 per round... 140x8= 1120 each round in total healing... compared to 240-300 from a healing cloud which is a single target.

1120 vs 300... and  healing cloud is OP? this is why nobody plays this game anymore, because everybody who has made decisions for the last 15 years has been a complete retard. I am hoping this new administration is going to be better, but basic math skills in tough to ask in 2017, so we'll have to wait and see.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 04:08:54 PM by Kir »

Gramm

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 05:45:46 PM »
I was only able to solo heal mid level zones once i hit legend i might add. until then you only wagg and para basically

Bryton

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2017, 07:11:47 PM »
What druid thread wouldn't be complete without a good shitpost by the PK god himself, Bryton.  I agree that druids need some kind of buff, I mean I killed your legend druid this wipe with a lvl 30 white robe. Slumber OP. Some of your points were...half thought out. But just saying stuff like 'super lame for pk and zoning' and 'this one really bugs me because it's complete shit'   How is the staff going to look at this data and construct a new plan for improvement? 

Lightning storm should get a damage buff or a spec to perhaps paralyze for a round or 2, a very low chance but still fits the theme of lightning damage in most games.

Entangle "No restrictions on location of use." is what Legend entangle states. It also states that it is a thorny vine, I would like to see something similar to malevolent tentacles for this spell, a channeled damage spell that has a chance to restrict movement from the room. There's no resistance to gear toward this though, unlike tent and NPP.

Ice Storm This spell really does blow right now and I've said in the past it needs some love. The damage is either 10-20 damage or 40-50, very rarely on the latter. What would be cool is have it be a channeled spell again with a little increased damage. Having the spell tick for 40-70 damage per round would be a pretty awesome change. It doesn't necessarily need a spec but a cool spec it COULD have would be something similar to suspension field, reduces the haste in the room since you know, it's a bapting ice storm.

Insect Swarm This spell IS good when it actually hits but is negated by any damage shield (lightning/fire/ect) and stuff like acid mist and gust/tornado/constant winds. There could perhaps be a legend rank that allows it to remain in the room even with these factors. Something that allows it to stick around and actual deal dmg and not be dispelled by a lvl 7 mage guild spell.

Cultivate  If this spell landed more often and hit the group for the same amount of healing, that could add a cool aspect to druids. However it does fail quite a bit, the damage isn't super great and it's not a 'reliable' heal. It's not on demand healing, you have to plan ahead for it to actually work. I would like to see this spell have a 100% land chance and the heal be a little better, but right now on a 29 legend druid it heals for about 180. Still not bad for a group heal.

Healing Cloud  Probably why you think you are a good druid. The spell is retard proof. You don't need to spam the group list, you simply cast it and forget it. I don't believe it should hit twice every round but maybe if there was a way to have +healing done gear increase the chance of double clouds would be neat, a way to gear towards it. As far as needing a spec, I don't agree, you aren't primarily a healer like a cleric. You are there to support and give some off heals. Perhaps have it 'rain' for an additional heal or a remove poison or something if you feel a spec is necessary.

Primal Fury Although I'm not familiar with this too much, from what I understand it's still a group buff and still increases everyone's damage while removing the negative affects. I don't really think this should be a group buff, it just turns the druid into a primal fury bot with no thought process again. It's a retard proof spell. Maybe if it was a damage buff to a single person with a little better benefits or a damage reduction to the tank you could cast, that would be neat.

Tornado This spell is in a good spot I think. It has the ability to deal really nice damage, although it is random. I believe it still has the ability to be boosted with gust of wind or constant winds. I wouldn't touch that one, perhaps just allowing it to be cast indoors and not underwater would work, add a little more variety to zoning.


Druid Single Target Spells
Flame Shroud, Cone of Cold and Fire storm DO have similar damage to thorn spray. The average thorn spray is around 50 damage while the average flame shroud is 60. I would like to see the damage upped a little on Cone/Flame shroud and have the frag reduced a lot. I understand you are covering your target in FIRE but perhaps having Cone of Colds damage a little more consistent would replace the need to mem all flame shrouds. 

Call Lightning  The damage is only slightly higher than Flame Shroud and Fire storm. Averaging around 80. I would like to see maybe a daze/confusion or paralyze spec added to this. All specs added should be a fairly low chance of succeeding, but something to spice up the spell a little bit. The ability to cast it anywhere with Legendary Storm Cloud is a nice touch, even more so if specs are added.

Granite Hand This spell rocks. GET IT!   But I like the idea of having the potential for really good damage as well as really mediocre damage. Seeing all 4 hits on a target just FEELS like it's doing a ton of damage. I would maybe like to see this spell moved to 5th circle so you have to choose between ice storm area and direct damage granite hands. Maybe add a bash spec similar to force missile? I mean it's a giant bapting rock hand smashing into you.

Other Druid Spells

Stone Skin Only a very select few(I can think of only two) mobs should have the ability to penetrate stone skin. IF a mob has the ability to penetrate stone skin, the damage on those hits should be significantly reduced. There's no reason to have to switch up a druids mem mid zone just because 'this is imm to stone skin, let me swap out all my stones for something else' I think of a Dark Blessing type dmg reduction if the mob can hit through it. Also remove the petrify, it's 2017 people. That shit is old!

Temporal Path "In  most cases, the caster should not be far from the intended victim." If you can get close enough to cast this spell, you probably have a good idea where they are and don't generally need to cast it. It's a flavor spell and always has been. Sometimes it works great and sometimes it leads you to Solace. I don't think anyone is going to spend the time and energy to fix this spell.

Conjure Elemental Ahh, the classic conjure elemental. It's pretty shit. What COULD be cool is the higher level you get, the better the charmies were. I'm talking instead of the water nymph and bapting fire snake or shit pechs Randy, shit pechs, you got the elementals you typically would see from using a conjure stone. No druid is going to go out and farm those stones just to have a pet die in a zone to some area. I don't think druids need pets that can be ranked up like mages, but perhaps just having the ability to summon GOOD enough charmies that hit ok with weapons and have some minor skills would be a great addition.

Paralysis Although I don't agree with the inconsistent part (it will last 5 or 6 rounds, no more no less) it's still a great spell to mem. It tends to land quite a bit and with double spell power ranks I would imagine it's quite powerful, even for some zoning.

Summon Faerie  You are summoning a god damn faerie, unless you put it in a bottle it'll probably fly away.

Druid Equipment

"druid eq is complete shit"  This is....somewhat true. I think the real issue with druid equipment is either A. It shares the same class restrictions as clerics and shamans so they tend to take it over a druid or B. There's not a whole lot of 'druid specific' gear. There are a few niche items that have low maxes so if those are gone you are just kind of stuck with what you can get. Druids don't necessarily NEED good gear but a powerfully equipped druid sure is awesome to have around.

Druid Spell Slots
Finally, I can agree. 7th and 8th slots are jam packed with spells. What would be pretty nice and I think needed is introducing a 9th circle for druids. They have just as many spells as mages and one less circle to work with. Spreading out some of the spells will help ease the woes of not having + slot gear.


Druids can solo just fine, they aren't as fast as other classes but they still have the ability to. It certainly is a lot easier to group and level. As far as not being taken into groups, perhaps with a few of these changes to spells, slots and gear we could see a little more love from druids.

These are just my thoughts on the problems posted above. You may not agree with them but at least give the immortals something to work with.

Nice job Kadaj I loved the post.

Gnua

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 07:39:59 PM »
Well you can't advocate the buffing of an under performing class and not the nerfing of an OP one!

a nerf to the legend shaman class might make sense in combination with a buff to the pre-legend shaman class. the difference between a legend shaman and a non-legend shaman can mean the difference between a group never dropping below good fighting a dragon and a group which cannot even defeat it.

reed23

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 08:27:37 PM »
The correct answer is not to nerf shamans or clerics to give us 3 shitty options to chose from.  Didn't we just try that with weapons and everyone about deleted arctic from their minds permanently?  Give druids some love.  Quick changes - buff healing cloud, buff primal fury, buff entangle, buff lightning storm.  Not all of those, but some.  It shouldn't take a lot of time to do that and the class becomes playable again.  A lot of good input has happened in this thread with good options on how to make this shitty class decent again.

Gnua

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 08:56:40 PM »
Shamans heal, do damage, and have spirits.  Clerics heal, do damage, and have corpses.  Druids don't heal, don't do damage, and have water weirds.
Please open my eyes as to why a druid would ever be considered other than to cast refresh levels 1 - 20!

What about moving heal boost and ghostskin from shamans to druids?  That way there would be incentive to put druids into the group for the buffs - druids and shamans could then have a synergy between them.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 08:59:02 PM by gnua »

Kadaj

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 11:12:27 PM »
So you double the healing done by healing cloud to 600 a round with legend and its a smart heal that goes for 5 to 6 rounds. that's 3600 healing done.  I'm a mathimagician!

Alecto

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2017, 10:27:11 PM »
I think if we give druids bash and backstab, as well as allow them to tether-relocate, and spell trap stun the class would finally be playable!

Hoodoo

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2017, 01:10:34 AM »
Two words.  Trainable. bapting. Pet.


raf

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2017, 09:10:20 AM »
My feedback about a first time druid player with all spells/legend at the end (compared to mages which I have played a lot):
http://www.arcticmud.org/forums/index.php/topic,1380.msg10988.html#msg10988

Zozen

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2017, 09:13:45 AM »
Druids are for refresh. Thank you!

Rinad

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Re: Any news on druids prior to pwipe?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2017, 11:37:02 AM »
My .02 worth:

Healing for druids = needs to be set to be on par with shamans for back-ups.  Make healers #1 healer.

Damage for spells = see previous posts, most of the posts address this already.

--Only one I noticed that got skipped over was earthquake. - My idea is to make it affect the entire room including flying.
Round 1/spell cast = roll for random scalable number based on Richter scale  1d100 or something 1 being very low damage and 100 being high, each "shake" will have a small chance to force room bash.   The higher the roll the higher the chance to room bash.    Give flying a modifier to reduce the chance for bash.  Have the earthquakes occur every other round or even possibly set them to go off every 2-5 random seconds each "aftershock" for a 30 second to 1 min period of time.

Elementals- make some level restricted stones a bit more buff to be on par with animated corpses/spirits.   Give them legend Elemental and have the ability to make 2 or 3. 

I'm sure I can think of more fixes not mentioned, but this is a good start.   

As far a refresh and mass refresh, berries/scouts/potions/scrolls are good for that too.  Give druids more roles strategy in groups