Author Topic: WIPE  (Read 9267 times)

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gulca

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2017, 08:37:22 AM »
Welllllllll, this wipe we sort of screwed up by not doing exactly that. It won't be a mistake we'll make again, so don't worry!

Next wipe rank gains won't be so insane at the start.

This is crazy mentality. You are discouraging people from playing in a crowd. More people log on, slower rank progression. What??

You should abandon the dynamic ranks instead. Everyone gets the same ranks and legends in same amount of time relatively quickly.

That way, even the small guys can legend and need not wait for the big guys to drop out of the game.

reed23

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2017, 05:43:16 PM »
Is it ranks that are holding people up from legending or is it spells and skills?  Almost every character I make at the wipe rush and after the wipe rush waits to legend based on skills/spells and not because of ranks. 

I know the skilling system was overhauled recently - I think it'd be a good idea for whoever was in charge of it take a second look now that it's had some time in the game.  I noticed it significantly harder to skill up when I was playing a DK than it was previously and have heard the same feedback from several players.  Or maybe we just suck.  Old dogs new tricks.

Gnua

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2017, 05:23:42 AM »
Is it ranks that are holding people up from legending or is it spells and skills?  Almost every character I make at the wipe rush and after the wipe rush waits to legend based on skills/spells and not because of ranks. 

I know the skilling system was overhauled recently - I think it'd be a good idea for whoever was in charge of it take a second look now that it's had some time in the game.  I noticed it significantly harder to skill up when I was playing a DK than it was previously and have heard the same feedback from several players.  Or maybe we just suck.  Old dogs new tricks.

For me skills come first (I skill when I cannot find a group that is ranking), spells and rank 20 happen at about the same time. I'm guessing the rise hits rank 20 as the very first thing because of the dynamic ranks.  From what I hear, skilling has become a lot harder. If this is so, the time to legend has probably increased.

Kam

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2017, 04:59:28 PM »
Gulca, I'm going to go ahead and ignore what you said since it seems to be in response to inferences you've made from my post and not from any actual information.

reed and gnua, as regard to skilling I've found skilling to be much easier overall but maybe a little more difficult for certain skills. We tried to isolate these but it's very possible we may have missed some things.
If you start a new character and use skills naturally they should progress relatively fluidly. Or at least that was the goal with this new system. If that isn't the case than we'd like to know about it and if you can provide some data or even just specifics that could be helpful.

I would agree that it may be time for a second look and probably some tweaking before we wipe, but major changes are really not in the cards on the code side of things for the moment, so the focus should be more on tweaking than completely reinventing things if we want to be realistic about the possibility of anything happening at all.

eddiex

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2017, 06:31:54 PM »
Imo: Anything that makes this game any more grindy will reduce the playerbase.  I have 0 interest in rushing if there is no incentive to be the fastest. Those prime ranks you get for being a better player than others is the only thing you are guaranteed to keep the entire wipe. Well unless you get hossed... then you don't even keep those.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 06:52:15 PM by eddiex »

reed23

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2017, 08:06:24 PM »
I'm with Eddie.  The less grindy the game is the better.  Also, incentivizing people to show up for the rush should be a priority.  We shouldn't reduce the incentive for people to rush, that makes no sense.

And for anyone that believes that gaining ranks uber fast at the wipe rush results in legending faster is somewhat mistaken.  Yes, you will be an overall higher rank, but I've observed for the past several wipes that the majority of people I play with are rank 23-26 before they legend because they have to grind up their skills and spells. 

If we are worried about the overall rank system, just change how fast ranks recharge.  Gaining ranks faster would be a great thing for everyone, especially with some of the new cool ranks available that are super rank point spendy (fireshield, autohaste, improved invis, etc.).

Kir

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2017, 10:37:03 PM »
Also it is a huge misconception that rise outranks everybody because we run zones which are max rank first.... soloers and small groups lead by people such as Randy, locki etc were rsnk 34 this wipe by the time i was rank 24. Being in a big clan, you end up spamming the same zones repeatedly for zero rank points trying to attain gear or spells. You also are doing very hard fights in which you die repeatedly. I am pretty sure the highest rank Demigorgon got to was 26? Its waaaay easier for the intelligent soloer or small group player to rank than it is for clans doing endgame content... obviously there is a tradeoff in gear/spells vs ranks so im not complaining but dont be mislead that rise or core outrank the smaller guys, its simply untrue by a wide margin

el conquistador

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2017, 05:19:46 PM »
as a noob player the opening day ranks are ridiculous.  this wipe i hit rank 15 in like 10 hours on wipe day.  then when i leveled up an alt it took like 2 weeks to get to rank 15.

i dont think it should be so extreme.  people who cant play on wipe day or solo are weeks behind on the first day.


*i really do like the idea of a mid wipe pzap though.  seems like a fun idea

Kholos

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2017, 10:05:23 PM »
I'm on board for anything less grindy.  The plain ring is a good idea, but because you only really get rank % on it for soloing it becomes very grindy.

Most skills are harder to train.  Impair especially for DK's.  I even had trouble with thief evade. Mage skills are still pretty bad.  Adrenaline rush is tough but it's a legendary skill. 

Seems to me the skills rank up quicker in the beginning and really get stuck at excellent.  I skill train in between and I still haven't completed my skills by level 30 rank 22/23.  So what exactly is expected when Kam says that skills should rank up 'normally' as you level and rank.  Am I ranking and leveling abnormally?

Otherwise, I'm always ready for a pwipe.

Alecto

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2017, 03:33:15 AM »
In response to Reed and Eddie and all the other strong wipe day rushers:

Ranks in a power clan are a double edged sword - on the one hand you are the first group to run ToT and Dracos and all that stuff, so the ranks that first time are good.  The problem is, as Kir noted, you KEEP running ToT and Dracos pretty much non-stop while you spell up clerics and mages, so thereafter the ranks seriously suck donkey-butt.  As a result you typically quickly get to around 22-24, but at 25 when you hit one of the first major adjustments to max dynamic ranks it typically concurs with the spell-grinding part of days 5-15 of the wipe, ergo the ranking is stale and slow.

I make my entire game off dynamic ranking, I run a LOT of BS zones that few run - just for the ranks. The idea of reducing dynamic ranking actually hurts the casual player more than the hard core folks - who are running the endgame stuff, anyway.

I typically devote 2-3 hours of the first 5 hours of each wipe just grinding crappy little ranks with no xp or cash or spells because I know I can grind those things later, but the easy ranks are all gone by the 5th hour.  That means I have had characters that were rank 12 at level 12.  I actually support the idea of killing every mob right before the game is open to players to reduce dynamic ranks - but I would really like to know in advance since it would massively change my game plan on wipe day...

eddiex

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2017, 06:54:09 PM »
I'm confused Alecto. Is killing every rank mob to set the rank to a minimum so ranks suck the entire rush and then give an advantage to someone like you who does obscure ranks for no gear and screw everyone who is trying to rush for gear because they will rarely see good ranks trying to accumulate the best sets (meanwhile u continue grinding obscure ranks and get rewarded for not going for gear)?

This current wipe I rushed and helped lead Krynn's advocate along with some long time friends. I can tell you that our number 1 intention was trying to find unique zones to rank in because we were not as focused on gearing up as it puts a huge target on your back. We also wanted to help those in our clan get as close to legend as possible while we still remained active. My interest as a player in Arctic is limited due to GF anger, so I like to be able to accomplish as much as I can with as little relationship turmoil. Our main healer and re-founder had to quit within the first month (prob sooner) b/c wife aggro.

Rushing for ranks is a draw for people who can't obtain or don't want the attention the limited gear brings. The same goes with gear sets.

I'd argue that culling all rank mobs and making rushing purely about gear is a move that only benefits the elite and increases the grindyness of the game. Neither of these results are appealing to a casual or limited time-basis player.

If ranks were culled and I wasn't going to rush with a top tier clan, I wouldn't bother rushing at all. I could start the grind at any point during the wipe, have the same minimal decent pieces of item, and accomplish more ranking later in the wipe due to minimal population.

TL:DR Culling outstanding rush rank experience will not improve the pwipe experience. IMO: It will actually end up thinning the playerbase even more.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 07:01:28 PM by eddiex »

Alecto

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2017, 09:16:22 PM »
Don't get me wrong, Eddie - I love my mad dash through easy ranks on wipe day: it is one of my favorite parts of Arctic.  But I understand that it gives me an advantage over other players, particularly since I do not have a lot of time to commit to the game.  I deal with wife anger: it is like GF anger only with longer lasting legal and financial repercussions.  That quick rank sprint lets me stay about even with the rest of my clan mates as they go hard for the next week while I play one hour each night, go to work, and keep my wife happy.

Clearing the ranks just levels the playing fields for the big clans.  Early wars and hunting allow one clan to often be the first to hit most of the high-high zones in the game, and the ranks from doing so allow them to legend several days sooner. I entirely agree with you that zeroing-out the dynamic ranks on wipe day would completely screw the casual player.  I see both sides of the argument and I am willing to rush hard either way - I just want a decision made in advance and announced so I can make the appropriate adjustments to my wipe day game plan.


Kir

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2017, 10:53:39 PM »
Don't get me wrong, Eddie - I love my mad dash through easy ranks on wipe day: it is one of my favorite parts of Arctic.  But I understand that it gives me an advantage over other players, particularly since I do not have a lot of time to commit to the game.  I deal with wife anger: it is like GF anger only with longer lasting legal and financial repercussions.  That quick rank sprint lets me stay about even with the rest of my clan mates as they go hard for the next week while I play one hour each night, go to work, and keep my wife happy.

Clearing the ranks just levels the playing fields for the big clans.  Early wars and hunting allow one clan to often be the first to hit most of the high-high zones in the game, and the ranks from doing so allow them to legend several days sooner. I entirely agree with you that zeroing-out the dynamic ranks on wipe day would completely screw the casual player.  I see both sides of the argument and I am willing to rush hard either way - I just want a decision made in advance and announced so I can make the appropriate adjustments to my wipe day game plan.

Alecto, I dont know you but you seem to be the only other intelligent player involved game who is not in Rise and it is nice to finally see a non-Rise player speaking the truth instead of the typical moron/sore loser diarrhea we are used to. As you said, removing the good ranks from the wipe rush would severely damage the casual player. Most actual casual players take time out of their schedule ahead of the wipe to spare 1-2 days to rush. Those are the days that they make the most progress then proceed to play 1-2 hours once or twice a week until they quit. If they dont make a ton of progress at the wipe rush they are never going to legend, which means they are never going to stick around, because all high end content basically requires legend now that group limits are 8. Anybody who thinks removing ranks on day 1 will hurt Core\Rise are bapting morons. Core and Rise are doing elite zones on day 3-4 before the other clans\players which means max ranks in those zones. We are still going to hit rank 20 before everybody else. The limiting factor will continue to be skills\spells, especially since the skilling has been bapted over even more from what I've heard. I think ranks are one of the most fun part of this game. I saw a neutral player beat the most stacked Rise character in a 1v1 duel due to him solo ranking to like 40 or something crazy.


eddiex

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2017, 12:08:22 AM »
A simple solution to not let early wars and hunting allow a clan to jump way ahead of you. Don't start or engage in a fight you aren't willing to finish. Ala CORE ambush/counter-ambush on rise (depending on who's telling the story) and subsequent getting pussies crushed in. From how I saw it CORE attacked RISE at lvl 15 in Bali jail and then again at Aspre.

Do you not understand the clan you are being aggressive toward. They love that part of the game. Don't punish the rest of the casual player-base by making ranking at rush a grind fest because one clan lost a high stakes game of poker they chose to engage in.

CORE tried to preempt, what they felt would be, an imminent attack by RISE and had they won, the script would have been flipped. Had that happened, I doubt we'd even be having this conversation.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 12:26:43 AM by eddiex »

el conquistador

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Re: WIPE
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2017, 01:02:47 AM »

Alecto, I dont know you but you seem to be the only other intelligent player involved game who is not in Rise and it is nice to finally see a non-Rise player speaking the truth instead of the typical moron/sore loser diarrhea we are used to. As you said, removing the good ranks from the wipe rush would severely damage the casual player. Most actual casual players take time out of their schedule ahead of the wipe to spare 1-2 days to rush. Those are the days that they make the most progress then proceed to play 1-2 hours once or twice a week until they quit. If they dont make a ton of progress at the wipe rush they are never going to legend, which means they are never going to stick around, because all high end content basically requires legend now that group limits are 8. Anybody who thinks removing ranks on day 1 will hurt Core\Rise are bapting morons. Core and Rise are doing elite zones on day 3-4 before the other clans\players which means max ranks in those zones. We are still going to hit rank 20 before everybody else. The limiting factor will continue to be skills\spells, especially since the skilling has been bapted over even more from what I've heard. I think ranks are one of the most fun part of this game. I saw a neutral player beat the most stacked Rise character in a 1v1 duel due to him solo ranking to like 40 or something crazy.

i think people might play more after the first day if regular guy ranks werent completely worthless on day 2-30.