Author Topic: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory  (Read 4228 times)

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Kir

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Druids used to be pretty fun to play and very useful in groups with healing cloud and primal fury. Since both were nerfed, druids are absolutely worthless in end game zoning. They can't heal for shit and endgame mobs ignore stoneskin. Their utility is very limited and they do 0 dps. Other than for mass refresh and stoneskinning thru ez fights i am not sure what they are useful for besides prevailing winds to other zones. That kind of utility is not enough to make them worthy for a slot in an 8 man group doing end game zoning imo...

Discuss?

Jorake

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 09:32:39 PM »
See.. I agree with this in part. For end game zoning reasons and the fact that its 8man limits now. It is lame when a mob ignores stone skin. Single healing cloud IS still pretty good. Graham solo heals with it all the time. Things like dargaard etc. So its not utter shit. Primal fury is utter shit! That is the part i think should be restored. Single cloud is good where it is imo. Maybe make a druid item give off a 2nd cloud? That could be a good solution. OR OR OR A druid only rank that cost .. maybe 10? rps to get that 2nd cloud. Then you have to pick and choose between legend ranks etc.

I just dont see the point of having 3 diff classes that can solo heal. Legend shaman outheals everything in 90% of the fights in the game. Those big fights that do 600+damage a round, OK get a healer. Legend druid when I had one 2 wipes ago, i could solo heal anything it seemed like. Stones/clouds/even a couple crits. As long as I didnt get blinded. Was never an issue. And that sort of pushes clerics to a shitty spot.

If we had any discussion that would appeal to me, it would be how can we revamp clerics to make the class more enjoyable.

P.S Druids need a better pet! bapting sylphs and pechs and stalkers are lame as shit. You are talking about a class that calls in bears and big beastly animals to fight by its side!

Bryton

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2016, 11:46:19 PM »
Since I play a Druid pretty often I'll add my 2 cents.

Druid area- 
lightning storm got a buff. The damage buff was super weak (40 dam), and doesn't even have a spec. Also with it being 8th slot it will never be memed over stoneskin and healing cloud.
Legend entangle-  was nerfed to be completely worthless and doesn't work in most zone rooms.
Ice storm- lame damage like 10-15 dam.
Swarm- super lame for pk and zoning.
Cultivate- this one really bugs me because it's complete shit.
Healing cloud- this needs some type of spec to make Druids worth a shit.
Primal fury- lame before and after legend.
Tornado- is the the best Druid area damage by far. It's just sad that it's the same slot as call lightning.

Druid single target damage
Cone, firestorm, and flameshroud- do similiar damage to thorn spray..... They also frag the shit out of everything which is annoying.
Call of lightning- is fine
Granite Hand- is great, wish it would be more consistent but I  like the chance for high damage so it's fine were it's at.

Other Druid spells-

Stoneskin- I agree with above comments of it beingg lame for mobs to ignore stoneskin. Also chance to land petrify should be taken away. It attempts to petrify way to often even with  save mod ranks.
Temp Path- is so worthless, always fails. Always gives wrong directions.
Conjure elemental- such a lame charmie and I hate how it's been nerfed over the years. None of them have skills or spells worthwhile anymore.
Paralysis- it's fine but just inconsistent on the number of rounds it lasts.
Summon fairy- I know this spell is cool but I hate how it doesn't follow you when you flee.

Druid equipment
This is a great downfall for Druids. There no Druid only items in this whole game( well there are a few) But all the good items are usable by clerics, Druids, and shamans. This is super annoying because you will obviously gear up a shaman and cleric because they are more useful.

Druid spell slots-
7th and 8th I hate that these two slots are so packed with spells. Maybe the problem is more the Druid +slot eq going to clerics and shamans.

Ive played this class for a while and I've always like it. After this wipe I don't have any desire to waste my time playing one again. They can't solo because they do no damage until they get call lightning or granite hand, you honestly cast thorn spray until level 27. It's seriously the most awful class to solo level. You can't get into any group doing a high level zone because there is always a shaman or cleric that are more useful. There are most stuff like 80% of the Druid spells being worthless but I'm sure that's already well known.


reed23

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2016, 11:24:45 AM »
I agree with most of Bryton's points. 

I need to get something off my chest - Why can shamans 2x obliterate, have 5 2x massacring spirits, and heal THE ENTIRE GROUP for over 100 per round and yet everyone thinks healing cloud spitting off 2 clouds per round is OP????????  And then clerics can basically 2x oblit, crit whole group for 200+ for 3 rounds, have 3x animates.

Then, over in the corner, you have the little read headed druid with his dorky glasses on.  He can't do DPS, he can't heal, he can't buff the group's DPS with primal fury, and his area disable spell can be disabled with free action, and his pets are more pathetic than Pete's dead bird.  As Bryton mentioned, all the spells are stuffed in the top 2 slots, so it is almost impossible to mem a ton of frags to somewhat justify yourself being in a group.

I know how busy imms are, so this is no zing on them.  My two cents for making druids worth while would be:

Restore Primal Fury to what it was before.
Restore Healing Cloud to hit 2x each round at legend.
Buff Veil of Ice to be one of the prime-time defenses against Stun/Nightmare
Revamp Pets
Revamp spell slots, pushing some spells down to 4th 5th, and 6th.
Make Lightning Storm for real - 100+ area dam or give it a disable feature
Make Ice Storm decent - better than fireball/cold snap.
Triple Temp Path's distance, and remove how it sometimes just takes you to Sol []

Unfortunately, Druids are in no-mans land right now and they need some major love to be useful again!

Kam

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2016, 12:56:24 PM »
Then, over in the corner, you have the little read headed druid with his dorky glasses on.

Did you mean reed headed?

lol.

Anyway, druids are horrible. We know. The addition of these new things you love/miss were an attempt to bring them back from the brink. However, it was a little much so it was dialed back, then forward a little, and that's where we are now. Comparatively they're a little under powered, but the right path forward is something that's in discussion and we have a few different plans we're trying to work out. That being said any moves we make on druids are likely to be relatively minor or involve a complete overhaul, but these comments and ideas are helpful in letting us know what players are interested in.

I'd like if more people took a moment to weigh in, obviously those who've had a lot of time playing druids we would especially like to hear from.

reed23

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2016, 02:01:13 PM »
Lol whoops!

Episte

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2016, 06:12:46 PM »
Think the major playability issue with druids boils down to 4 or 5 major bits.  Underpowered guild frags. Ungodly assortment of fill in the missing blank useless spells. Overly resistant mobs to fire and cold damage... Poor melee skills. Not very interesting skills.

Light spell should be guild and not prone to crapping out or in following caster. Paladins and shamans both have better lights and the shamans can mem while blind or in the dark.

Maybe druids should get refresh as a skill instead. A reliable group improved pass without trace that blocks hunt/track/scry.  Perhaps a circle 3 through 5 non elemental frag comparable to forcebolt and a skill to align that spell to diff aligns ala stance.  Focused icestorm wouldn't be such a huge  issue with its new lolstyle damage

Fewer spells per level that were worth casting and some good skills would be my Pipedream. And stoneskin maybe have 2 tiers the current 4ish damage blocks followed by like graniteskin a general purpose damage reduction spell to put them as THE defensive main buffing class. Elemental armor and ghostskin generally pan out skewing the need for stone skin for every noteworthy fight in game.

Or could just rename the class to bards and only let them use miscs.  That would fit the hippy who isn't terribly useful slot they tend to fill in most groups (and all groups prelegend)

gnua

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 09:52:16 AM »
Buff Veil of Ice to be one of the prime-time defenses against Stun/Nightmare
Revamp Pets
Make Lightning Storm for real - 100+ area dam or give it a disable feature
Make Ice Storm decent - better than fireball/cold snap.

I think those are great suggestions. rather than having them compete with clerics and shamans in the dps, healing departments perhaps they could shine in the aoe (storms), defensive buff (veil), and tanking (pets) departments. If any class deserves a tanking pet, it is the druid. some possibilities for a tanking pet:
 - mobs wont autoswitch to the owner
 - into the breech or guard
 - can leave the room and engage mobs / draw aggro
 - shared healing/damage received with the owner

A small change would be to make ghostskin self only (like steelskin) and then give a similar 'cast on others' spell (maybe call it earthskin) to druids. maybe move tenacious heart from shamans to druids.  in return, could probably find a 'useless' druid spell that would improve non-legend shamans very much.

Gramm

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 06:13:40 PM »

I actually sold legend primal fury this wipe, its utterly useless. Legend cloud still heals decently the 100% chance of landing is key, please never take this away. I would rather have it deal less and be consistent, than inconsistent for the what like "30%" boost in healing done? Any numbers i use are likely coming from my imagination.

Basically druids are still strong, legend cloud is now weak enough that triple oblit mobs still overpower it.... but otherwise useful. Legend primal fury 100% needs a buff or you will see an absolute decline in the number of legend druids using it. Scouts thieves and bashers used to get excited when there was a legend druid in the group, now they cry themselves to sleep about having the lack of damage.. SHOW MERCY

Did stormcall also get a debuff at legend because it used to actually help for +concentration factor i thought, now it seems no?

I am having a hard time feeling like shaman and cleric dont outdamage AND outheal druids now, so outside of a few fights, and for making travel more convenient they are being left in the dust. Take pity on the druid.  is all the we ask, restore its former glory, and throw in a new spell too for good measure oeoeoeoe

death is glory!

raf

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2016, 02:36:02 PM »
I only played a druid for the first time this wipe and one of the main things that I dislike about the class is the situational use of their spells. Having indoor or room size restrictions on some of their better spells (call lightning, tornado) makes me not bother to memorize them.

On paper it sounds good but it just makes it a chore on top of most of their spells already highly resist since it's based on elemental resistances. Now if these spells did more damage or more powerful in some way it might be a good trade-off.

I was also excited the first time i learned Primal Fury but then the penalties were so bad on the target (non-legend), I haven't memmed it since.

I do think druid pets could get an upgrade to be more along mage pets but druids should be more of an offensive single target/area caster controlling weather/elements. Perhaps their spells should always work but be similar (to mages) indoors without the stuns/debuffs/secondary effects that mage spells have but more powerful (than mages) outdoors when the conditions amplify their spells.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 02:38:02 PM by raf »

gnua

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 08:44:55 AM »
I am having a hard time feeling like shaman and cleric dont outdamage AND outheal druids now... and throw in a new spell too for good measure oeoeoeoe

Maybe druids could have a way of making a non-caster target as tanky as a paladin or barbarian (but having little effect on the pal/barb) so that a druid becomes the 'curer of choice' for tanks that do not have the steelskin flag.

jrrestad

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2016, 05:43:38 PM »
Druids are an awesome class, but there is too much that doesn't work.  Some input and suggestions off the top of my head are...

Conjure elemental: Can we start conjuring some golems already?  Mages have their pets which are great.  Even clerics have gate which have useful skills (pick).

Stratification:  Be more like bone shape, in that it doesn't suck.

Elemental fist:  I like how the environment impacts the spell, but this is the most fraggy POS spell these days.  The damage is also very low.

Flame shroud:  Weak damage.  Could at least add a potential burning effect similar to blackrobe acid spells

Firestorm:  This spell is just flame shroud for 6th circle.  Make it area

Icestorm:  Favorite spell ever, but the damage is just way too low.  It used to be FOCUS, like mal tents.  Do that again

Stoneskin:  If its going to be 8th, make it divine

Healing cloud:  Great spell, if you want to keep nerfing it thats fine too, just make it a lower circle...  A healing cloud that cures for 30-40 a round at circle 5.. still a great spell

Veil of Ice:  Lets get real, 8th circle to block 1 area effect?  This spell needs to block more than one affect and needs to be lower circle.  However this spell shouldn't gaurantee a blocked spell.  Roll some save, some percent, to block an area spell.

Elemental armor:  This spell needs to be put on druids, it was never right for shamans.  This could be a higher tier spell, hard to obtain.  Druid staples are resists and refreshes, they need this spell.

Summon Faerie:  This little guy isn't even waterbreath, come on!  You flee, hes gone.  Most annoying spell ever

Granite hands:  Probably too strong, and too inconsistent.  The damage should be nerfed, given that other spell damage is more balance.  As it stands, this is almost the druids only source of damage.

Plant Walk:  Is this a group spell or can you even cast it on others?  Should be.

Pass Without Trace:  Should be able to cast this on others at say level 25 like how sustenance works

Commune with Nature:  Landing a commune should have an affect on increasing spell damage/saves mod, like comeuppance.  Maybe some mental acuity attached?  Druid skills are worse than cleric skills

Ending thoughts - Druids are essential for wipe-rushing because of mass refresh.  They are only useful once they have nearly all of their spells and are legendary.  They really need some love.  Yes, thorn spray is the best frag next to granite hands.




btown

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2016, 09:43:25 AM »
Thorn spray is to OP,  I would suggest thorn spray reduces armor or ac (it don't really matter which one) of target and do no damage.


Gramm

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Re: A call to restore druid healing cloud and primal fury to its former glory
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2016, 09:16:34 PM »
Member when druids were cool? member?