Closing the power gap between players without ruining integrity of the game

[Zozen]

Pk yourselves.

[Jang Yoo Sung]

Kir
You mentioned that you had 35 people at early wipe, you play to feel the edge, and people in your clan mostly quit because of the LACK of PK.
A simple solution would be to cut your clan 3 ways and make 3 clans and pk each other.

[Kafilat]

Bringing less to a fight isn't the answer either. 8man limits, if you have 8, it would be a dick move to say "Ok you you and you sit this one out" So that will never happen.

How is pk any different from zoning in this regard?  People get booted from groups all the time to comply with group size limits and it isn't considered (much of?) a "dick move".

[Gnua]

I WANT this game to be more competitive. If Rise decided to wipe the mud clean, we could do it easily, every day for the rest of the wipe. I dont WANT this to be the case, I think clan politics and diplomacy would actually mean something if we had anything to fear from the smaller clans

If I understand correctly, you want the smaller clans to be powerful enough to make you folks sweat even if you dont hold back. But right now if you dont hold back, no one can even legend.  And if you do hold back, people can legend but they cannot get end game mages before you all quit out of boredom.  Looking at the CRP scores, it seems like you power up about 3-4 times as fast as your closest competitor.  As a rough guess, after about a 1-1.5 weeks you have enough legends to start killing top dragons and popping high end spells for your mages.  After 1-1.5 months you have enough end-game mages to do an 8 man tether+bash+stun+nightmare+sunray bomb. But your competietion takes about 4-6 weeks to have enough legends to start killing top dragons and would need 4-6 months to have their own 8 man relo bomb and make u guys sweat. But by that time either the mud has wiped or you have all quit out of boredom.

Are your suggestions of reduced legend-power requirements and increased spell loads an attempt to make the lesser clans able to field an 8 man relo/stun bomb (give you something to fear) in 4-6 weeks rather than 4-6 months?

[kmark101]

As a rough guess, after about a 1-1.5 weeks you have enough legends to start killing top dragons and popping high end spells for your mages.

Are your suggestions of reduced legend-power requirements and increased spell loads an attempt to make the lesser clans able to field an 8 man relo/stun bomb (give you something to fear) in 4-6 weeks rather than 4-6 months?

And this is exactly why my suggestion is the only real solution to this problem.

[remi]

When your clan has ~1/3-1/2 of the entire population of the game it's not surprising you are able zerg the rest of the clans into submission.  Especially how easy it is to get most elite spells in the game.  At this point in a wipe any more than 1 or maybe 2 with PWS or it's equivalent is kinda out of control.

There were wipes where the entire wipe there were only 3 or 4 total players that had even 1 of the elite spells (pris/stun/globe).  Red mages are already strong enough without needing tether.  I think tether is fine for grouped people but not for pvp type situations.


Without Wild to keep you a bit at bay during the American times and Core to keep you at bay a bit during the Euro times
--the checks and balances that were in place are now gone and you have no competition. 

[Kir]

I WANT this game to be more competitive. If Rise decided to wipe the mud clean, we could do it easily, every day for the rest of the wipe. I dont WANT this to be the case, I think clan politics and diplomacy would actually mean something if we had anything to fear from the smaller clans

If I understand correctly, you want the smaller clans to be powerful enough to make you folks sweat even if you dont hold back. But right now if you dont hold back, no one can even legend.  And if you do hold back, people can legend but they cannot get end game mages before you all quit out of boredom.  Looking at the CRP scores, it seems like you power up about 3-4 times as fast as your closest competitor.  As a rough guess, after about a 1-1.5 weeks you have enough legends to start killing top dragons and popping high end spells for your mages.  After 1-1.5 months you have enough end-game mages to do an 8 man tether+bash+stun+nightmare+sunray bomb. But your competietion takes about 4-6 weeks to have enough legends to start killing top dragons and would need 4-6 months to have their own 8 man relo bomb and make u guys sweat. But by that time either the mud has wiped or you have all quit out of boredom.

Are your suggestions of reduced legend-power requirements and increased spell loads an attempt to make the lesser clans able to field an 8 man relo/stun bomb (give you something to fear) in 4-6 weeks rather than 4-6 months?

Something like that yes... its not a complete paraphrase of what im trying to say but you are getting the idea.. we have held back at about 95% to 99% capacity of how we want to play this game which is basicaly all out war and pk battles everyday.. which is fun for eberybody as long as you win some/you lose some

[Kir]

Kir
You mentioned that you had 35 people at early wipe, you play to feel the edge, and people in your clan mostly quit because of the LACK of PK.
A simple solution would be to cut your clan 3 ways and make 3 clans and pk each other.

Lol not sure if serious

[Kir]

Any thoughts on my post Kir?

Which part in specific sir it was a long post :)

[btown]

If you guys would like to close the power gap i have the solution.

First you give me all zone keywords and map of castle uth winstan or whatever.

Second you give me all zone keywords of mithas and map

Third you give me all zone keywords and map of the raven shadow

Fourth you give me all zone keywords and map of the underwater shit.

These 4 steps will help bring balance back to the game

[Willoe]

Good discussion.

[Gnua]

If you guys would like to close the power gap i have the solution.

First you give me all zone keywords and map of castle uth winstan or whatever.

Second you give me all zone keywords of mithas and map

Third you give me all zone keywords and map of the raven shadow

Fourth you give me all zone keywords and map of the underwater shit.

These 4 steps will help bring balance back to the game

But you always quit after you legend.

[Gnua]

Something like that yes... its not a complete paraphrase of what im trying to say but you are getting the idea.. we have held back at about 95% to 99% capacity of how we want to play this game which is basicaly all out war and pk battles everyday.. which is fun for eberybody as long as you win some/you lose some

maybe we should get rid of glowing recalls and let level 15 mages run around with 4 hasted, triple extreme, bashing ogre warrior charmies again. i heard of times when a fully spelled mage could have less than 100 hit points and a level 15 warrior had a real (but not guaranteed) chance of keeping one of those floored until it died.

[Umarth]

This may be a weird response coming from me ... but maybe what you need is more ARRPEE. I mean, yeah it's a MUD and whatnot, but I've seen countless logs where people just encounter and start fighting each other. If you were playing a tabletop game, this would never happen. (Generally wouldn't happen in real life either.) People would talk trash to each other first, or demand stuff, negotiate, etc. That generally doesn't happen on Arctic; it used to sort of happen back in the day on the board, but I'm sure that's long gone now.

One of the other things that a MUD kinda loses out on is controllable territory. If a clan could, say, take over a town, and make it off limits to other clan(s), then there'd be some reasons to fight. Chokepoints, strategy. That sort of thing.

[jingo]

maybe we should get rid of glowing recalls and let level 15 mages run around with 4 hasted, triple extreme, bashing ogre warrior charmies again. i heard of times when a fully spelled mage could have less than 100 hit points and a level 15 warrior had a real (but not guaranteed) chance of keeping one of those floored until it died.

This may be sarcasm but historically trash tactics and mechanics abuse was part of how clans came back when they became severely outgunned.

Fun fact: as a mortal the character "Aristox" was even involved in a trash group wand kill to re-obtain the shield of Huma.