Poll

PK vs non-PK?

I'm for Pkill per the current rules!
34 (44.7%)
It's time to make this MUD PK free to bring in some fresh players!
4 (5.3%)
Option_Pkill (see below)
38 (50%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Voting closed: December 23, 2016, 10:47:19 AM

Author Topic: Pkilling poll  (Read 15781 times)

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Nostramazos

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 10:42:31 PM »
Jorquin I do not think people will leave the mud.

An option PK flag will bring more former players back to the game from once renown clans such as KOS. The idea of exploring at last the mud unmolested will be a strong incentive.

The players who like high end eq will also stay and fight for it, especially because they will actually be more higher tier stuff to go about, if the option PK flag is implemented correctly.

Everyone should take a moment and see who remains in this game. Newbies used to be the blood flow of the game and clans such as KOS, Maza Nostra, Core, Myth, even Horsemen would accommodate them. Some of them would progress to become "better" players while other remained newbies for the rest of their careers. The game needs them back.

At Alecto: The PK system is not broken but the attitudes of people playing the game is. Excessive pkilling, power tripping, scripting, botting, "spying", char sharing has made the game inhospitable for those who do not care about pkilling.

This is a great option and I think it deserves a chance.

Nostramazos

Khad

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2016, 12:26:44 AM »
opt pkill.
So you can explore freely and play PvE.  Restrict grouping with normal players.

Super Tacoman

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2016, 12:33:05 AM »
i dont see what the problem with it would be if there was something like no_pkill characters cant loot limited items.

what would anyone lose?  only the true carebear supernoobs like me would sign up for something like that.  so the elite would lose the ability to slaughter carebear noobs.  is that really something very important to the game?  they could still fight the other elite all day long.

probably would take a lot of work to put in though.  i can understand thinking its not worth, but i believe a lot of players have quit this game because of pkill.  it really can be a devestating psychological blow. 

pkill to noobs is like having chuck liddell in your yoga class.  you like yoga class and usually everything is fine.  but every now and then chuck decides to kick your ass.  there is not much you can do about it and it is pretty hard to go back to class next week.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 12:34:45 AM by Super Tacoman »

Gramm

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2016, 06:40:52 AM »
Its a wonderful pipe dream, but I doubt this will ever happen. And until it does, maybe its just up to the larger clans to keep the vultures in line from going overboard on our blossoming naive potential fodder. Truly we should be taking more action as players to keep the trolls in line and relying less heavily on the staff.

Jorquin

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2016, 07:17:04 AM »
+1

lurker

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2016, 07:39:15 AM »
I think I would quit and never come back if arctic added a nopkill switch option.

Honestly, I rarely ever pkill anymore, I don't believe I have attacked another player intentionally in the last 3 years, but a huge part of the enjoyment of the game is the knowledge and fear that I could be attacked at any moment by a fellow player. Having an "opt pkill" that makes me invulnerable to player attacks would destroy that feel and make the game just a lame PvE grind.

OTOH, there have been various times in arctic's history where pkilling was de-incentivized, even if it was totally allowed. If done well, I don't have a problem with a change along these lines, and it could really spice up the game in a positive way. This is based on my memory, I might be getting a few details wrong:

1997 era: you were penalized if you attacked and killed a player of lower level. Back during this time, I actually engaged in pkilling, because it was doable at lower levels and I was a newbie and it seemed like killing someone's twinked out alt for gear was a lot easier than actually doing zones to collect gear. So I'd have a level 9 or 10 thief, backstab my victim in solace sewers, maybe collect a nice set of newbie gear. They would log on their main 25+ mage or cleric try to find me and kill me, and then I would get a tell about "damn, I lost 5 million XP for killing you, what level were you?"

On the surface, there are a couple flaws with taking this system to modern arctic. 1- XP doesn't mean much anymore, the penalty would have to consider ranks or it would be worthless, and given a severe enough level difference you would have to potentially lose rank points to make it hurt. 2- the system didn't account for clans. It was fine and good for keeping 1 vs 1 pvp fair and balanced, but there was nothing to prevent 5 level 20 chars from ganking singular 25+ characters and killing without penalty. To be effective, the penalty system would also have to account for numbers, and penalize pkillers when multiple numbers are used to kill a single player. This might just be too complex to fix in perfect way, but maybe there is some acceptable level where the game would be improved from the status quo.

A few years later, I want to say around 2000, there was the "justice system". I honestly loved this time. A pkiller could run around and gank without any xp loss consequence, but there were flags that tracked the number of kills and in most major towns the guards and guard captain would go agro and start tracking to kill you as soon as you approached if you were flagged as a murderer. I think it was removed due to "abuse", that is someone who was hunted by a clan would go into town and hide near a super-guard mob and let the super-guard kill the geared clanned characters who tried to attack. But that never really seemed like abuse of the system to me, that was it working as intended, it punished the stronger groups who tried to pick on the weaker by giving the weaker players an advantage. Just thinking about it makes me wish it could be brought back to some extent.

btown

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2016, 08:17:17 AM »
I liked the justice system also.  It was like the town mobs were alive!

Ranzin

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2016, 08:41:17 AM »
I think people stop playing when they feel they no longer have the means to compete, for example because their gaming time is too limited, they play with constant distractions (colleagues/partners/kids), they feel too far behind too late in the wipe or simply that everyone else they know has quit and they don't have the energy to build a new support network.

For me the question is whether a carefully thought-out and well-implemented optional pk system (decided permanently for each character at its creation) would encourage the above to return more casually, perhaps later rolling a pk mode char when they are sufficiently addicted again and start coveting the pk-only shinies.

adepali

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2016, 10:45:52 AM »
First a disclaimer, none of the following is in any way planned or underway, and I'm not making these decisions anyway, these are just some random thoughts on how I would see an opt_pk system working:

- Option available at character creation. Let's call them PK / NOPK. It is permanent, and obvious in who list etc.
- NOPK cannot receive high-end items in any way (including bagged). We can tweak what high-end means.
- PK have some perks (easier ranking, more rank options etc). At one extreme, only PK can become legendary.
- NOPK and PK cannot damage each other.
- NOPK cannot use beneficial abilities on PK, including recalls etc.
- A clan cannot contain both PK and NOPK

With a system like this I expect most people can still enjoy the game to its fullest.

Lewis

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2016, 11:10:19 AM »
nopkflag will annoy pkers who want more targets for fun and profit
pkalltheway will annoy players who don't give a bapt, yet, about pk

Probably unfair from the pker side because it would reduce the number of targets but how about:

If you chose the no_pk flag, you lose it at a predetermined level or you get a chance to get rid of it, forever. You lose it if you try to steal or hit a player. You lose it if you step foot in a "nonexistent" arena. At high level enough a newbie has a grip on the game, has more options to defend himself. If he has made it this far, he's probably gonna continue playing after one pk death. His view of the game won't be of getting assaulted/murder everytime he farts, trying to mind his own business.

Kragg

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2016, 11:36:30 AM »
This is only my opinion (and therefore fairly worthless).

I can't really imagine an pk/non-pk system existing together that wouldn't be open to massive abuse by the agile minds that frequent our mud.

There would always be holes in any attempted staff 'firewall' that would be open to 'abuse'.

Ie if I have a non-pk flagged group (of multi/bots) that could explore whatever unhindered and have one pk flagged player (multi) grouped (but not clanned  as per suggested rules) who could loot whatever the others could not and then rent it or hand it off.  Is this fair game?

I think the simpler the pk system is, the better it is for everyone (including staff with limited time/desire to police shenanigans).  Arctic has always had open pk and that is a key part of Arctic's 'charm'.

Off topic but related on a tangent is this:  my biggest concern for the future of Arctic is the automated multi/bot pkill groups that could work down the who list (I am sure we will see this at some point).

Rhak

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2016, 01:14:12 PM »
Pk group is zoning, no_pk person/group enters, begins healing/hasting/etc. mobs, looting anything they can, fragging equipment on mobs, fragging keys, rotting zone items, setting off traps/mob specs with no fear of repercussion.  There's no way for the two types to co-exist without endless ways to abuse it, there are always people who show no self control, if they can do something they will.

btown

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2016, 01:20:13 PM »
and they will be talking smack

Hoyt

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2016, 01:57:27 PM »
I Voted keep the rules as they are.  Any kind of opt_pk would get abused some how or another, would have to make clans either all pk or no_pk all gear flagged from pk, people flagged opt_no_pk wouldn't be allowed to group with and opt_pk group/people would just get messy, and abused.

Thymorical

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Re: Pkilling poll
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2016, 02:08:48 PM »
If you think pk is a problem you probly did not play last 2 wipes..